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puck1337 · Oct 29, 2004

DS is dead in the water. It might not flop in the Virtua Boy sense, but they're gonna have to hustle to get something comparable to the PSP out there, or it's going to eat their lunch.

Even an Apple/Nintendo co-branded handheld might be necessary/possible, since Apple's going to really feel the heat from the PSP.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

I don't see PSP impacting i-Pod sales at all, any more than PS2 stopped people from buying standalone DVD players -- actually less so, simply because PSP is not a HDD based player (how much for a 20 GB Memory Stick again? Lol). No one cared about flash MP3 players, it was the i-Pod and the HDD players that made consumers go "wow".

I think Apple is going to have a monster year in 2005 with the G5 i-Pod.

As for DS, lets wait and see. I could see them going to $99 (that leaked 9800 yen image from Nintendo seems to indicate this is at least an option if need be) if they have to create some space.

Kon Tiki · Oct 29, 2004

If the DS takes over the GBA place (in a hardware production sense) and GBA2 forms the '3rd pillar', I fail to see how DS is 'doomed' . Do peopel forget the GBA outsells the PS2? They are expecting the PSP to do better than PS2?

Panajev2001a · Oct 29, 2004

DCharlie said:
"but those who want to play our racing game Gran Turismo 4 will need a PSP, right?"

or not play it on the go and play the PS2 version?

He could have said: if you want to play Lumines, Metal Gear Ac!d or others.

I know you will be one of the people with GT4 for PlayStation 2 and GT4 for PSP and you will do the same for other series: you are the last person that should complain about it

.

I have one better: wait for Capcom to release Monster Hunter for PSP... I wonder what would happen... uhm... I think you know the answer

.

Hey, at least I am consistent... one of the games that I am anticipating the most for the DS (the game I pre-ordered with the DS itself) is Super Mario 64 DS.

I do not care if it is a game that can be played on a home console: even PSTwo (with a LCD screen added to it) is too big to be a portable

.

My TV is still 4:3 even though it is an HDTV so I do not get to enjoy full-screen wide-screen gaming action so the PSP games will feel fresher already

.

Fact is that people are going to be on the go and are going to want to play games: PSP allows you to play good games (you know there will be good games on it), so what's the big problem ?

DECK'ARD · Oct 29, 2004

DS has the better games, but the PSP's price has made the 2 systems directly comparable now. And the launch date in Japan is essentially putting them head-to-head as well.

Without the Gameboy name, and lacking the PSP's power, there's a risk now that the public may see the DS as a system with a very short shelf-life. A stop-gap, that is bound to be replaced quite soon by something more comparable to PSP.

A PSP obviously looks like a safer investment. DS really needs to be $99 to open up some space between the 2 systems. If Nintendo are going to play the wireless network card, a $99 pricepoint would build a userbase/community far quicker as well.

I think Nintendo need to bite the bullet with this one.

king zell · Oct 29, 2004

anyone who knows about Jump Super Star and thinks that DS will be daed is so ignorant

Vieo · Oct 29, 2004

DS will do just fine. Whoever wants 'teh 1337 grafix' will buy a PSP. Whoever wants to get at Nintendo's first-party brand will buy a DS. It's that simple.

Spike · Oct 29, 2004

soundwave05 said:
With a $50 difference though between the DS and PSP, unless the touchscreen absolutely is something you got batsh-t crazy over, I can't see how people wouldn't just pay the extra few bucks for the PSP instead.

Why should I buy a portable PS2 and, for example, GT4

SP? I own a PS2 and I prefer to play on my bigscreen HDTV, and I won't have to recharge a battery every 4-6 hours.

Whereas, my TV unfortunately doesn't have touchscreen capabilities, and I'm sure that somewhere down the line there will be some truly innovative concepts that utilize this feature.

I'm eventually going to buy both systems, but to say that the PSP is going to bury the DS is absurd. They will coexist in the marketplace because they both do totally different things.

drohne · Oct 29, 2004

the $200 price is a nintendo-screwing measure. they didn't need to price it that low -- supply will initially be constrained, and surely early adopters would pay $300. but a $200 psp makes a $150 ds look like a scam. who'd feel comfortable buying a ds for $150 when they could have a psp for $50 more? the difference in hardware quality is just so manifest, from the chipsets to the screens to the plastics they're built out of. i expect a lot of those "tba" ds projects to evaporate or move to psp as well. castlevania seems like a prime candidate; igarashi already had his doubts about its suitability to the ds hardware. ds will be stillborn.

Panajev2001a · Oct 29, 2004

I find this to be a good thing for the PSP and for us gamers:

"Many game publishers are now saying, 'At that price, we'd seriously like to make games for the PSP."

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

I really feel like they're gonna have to drop the price.

I mean in Japan the PSP is launching like 10 days later for only like 4800 yen more -- that's crazy.

Personally I think if Microsoft is willing to back off the creepy "call me, baby" advances they've been making towards Nintendo (ahem, Billy), they should just enter in a hardware partnership with them -- provided a contract gauruntees them complete independence and maybe say a nice cut of licensing fees along with some system design input.

A lot of people bring up Apple, but Apple really has no sway in the game industry, and Nintendo sells way more Game Boys than Apple does i-Pods.

puck1337 · Oct 29, 2004

soundwave05 said:
I don't see PSP impacting i-Pod sales at all, any more than PS2 stopped people from buying standalone DVD players -- actually less so, simply because PSP is not a HDD based player (how much for a 20 GB Memory Stick again? Lol). No one cared about flash MP3 players, it was the i-Pod and the HDD players that made consumers go "wow".

I think Apple is going to have a monster year in 2005 with the G5 i-Pod.

As for DS, lets wait and see. I could see them going to $99 (that leaked 9800 yen image from Nintendo seems to indicate this is at least an option if need be) if they have to create some space.

Well, the PSP plays games, music, movies, and is very comparable in price to the iPod. Plus it has wireless networking, is every bit as sexy to look at, and has a respectable brand behind it. It has a lot going for it, including a lot that the iPod doesn't have.

And don't forget about Poland (i.e. Sony's incredible marketing)

Memles · Oct 29, 2004

who'd feel comfortable buying a ds for $150 when they could have a psp for $50 more?

Uh...me?

I happen to prefer the software lineup of the DS over the PSP.

drohne · Oct 29, 2004

Memles said:
Uh...me?

I happen to prefer the software lineup of the DS over the PSP.

the answer to that rhetorical question wasn't meant to be "no one." it was meant to be "nintendo's dwindling hardcore fanbase."

ge-man · Oct 29, 2004

Nash said:
DS has the better games, but the PSP's price has made the 2 systems directly comparable now. And the launch date in Japan is essentially putting them head-to-head as well.

Without the Gameboy name, and lacking the PSP's power, there's a risk now that the public may see the DS as a system with a very short shelf-life. A stop-gap, that is bound to be replaced quite soon by something more comparable to PSP.

A PSP obviously looks like a safer investment. DS really needs to be $99 to open up some space between the 2 systems. If Nintendo are going to play the wireless network card, a $99 pricepoint would build a userbase/community far quicker as well.

I think Nintendo need to bite the bullet with this one.

Nintendo has no choice but to bite the bullet. It's clear that Sony isn't fucking around at that price. The DS needs to go to 100 dollars while at the same time Nintendo needs to to work twice as hard to find the next Tetris or Pokemon. People are going to care about all the extra control features when you the tech that's inside the PSP at such a low price.

Solid · Oct 29, 2004

soundwave05 said:
Personally I think if Microsoft is willing to back off the creepy "call me, baby" advances they've been making towards Nintendo (ahem, Billy), they should just enter in a hardware partnership with them -- provided a contract gauruntees them complete independence and maybe say a nice cut of licensing fees along with some system design input.

That sounds pretty good actually. But knowing Nintendo that will never happen.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

If the PSP had a 20 GB built in HDD or even if it had rewritable UMDs, then maybe it would be a direct competitior to the i-Pod. As is though, no way.

It may steal some tertiary sales, but then again the i-Pod might steal some sales away from the PSP -- some people may say, well I'd rather have my whole music collection with me all the time than play video games like a dork in public.

That knife cuts both ways.

And concerning the PSP pricing, if Nintendo is shell shocked by it, well they have to get used to it. I think the consoles will be even worse in terms of hardware losses. That's why I think they should sign a sweetheart deal with Microsoft now while they can and get a share of licensing fees/system input/etc.

Then they can chill out, just make games and expand into the movie biz if that's what they want.

Kon Tiki · Oct 29, 2004

drohne said:
the answer to that rhetorical question wasn't meant to be "no one." it was meant to be "nintendo's dwindling hardcore fanbase."

What about the growing and immersive handheld fan base?

Link316 · Oct 29, 2004

competition is good, hopefully this will mean cheaper GBA game prices if Nintendo wants to remain competitive

Vieo · Oct 29, 2004

This thread is gonna get ugly reeeaaaaal fast...

Bishman · Oct 29, 2004

I see Nintendo dropping the price to $129.

Spike · Oct 29, 2004

One other thing that I wanted to mention.

This isn't about Sony PSP vs. Nintendo DS. This is about Sony PSP vs. Nintendo DS vs. Apple iPod vs. Tapwave Zodiac vs. ...

Also, I haven't read the entire thread yet, but that $200 price tag isn't that great for the PSP. How many of you are going to buy the vanilla version of the PSP? Apply the price for the bundle as that is going to be the major seller, not the vanilla version.

I'll be buying the DS for sure, simply because I don't see them replicating the touch screen on their next home console. The PSP I'm going to wait on. I'm betting that the PS3 is going to give me a way to play the titles on my TV screen. I'll buy the PSP eventually, but I don't want to have Sony pull another PSX fiasco with the PSP.

Tritroid · Oct 29, 2004

I wonder how many people who keep saying the DS is now dead will secretly purchase one come Nov. 21st.

teehee.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

What the $200 price tag does is it puts the PSP right in the face of every potential DS shopper.

I mean I like the DS, but if I reccomend one to one of my buddies now, I know they're going to be pissed off at me later when they see the PSP is only $50 more.

I will be purchasing a Nintendo DS no matter what, but that's because I love Nintendo's franchises. Most people do, but not everyone is willing to buy a seperate platform primarily for that reason.

Spiritreaver · Oct 29, 2004

drohne said:
the $200 price is a nintendo-screwing measure. they didn't need to price it that low -- supply will initially be constrained, and surely early adopters would pay $300. but a $200 psp makes a $150 ds look like a scam. who'd feel comfortable buying a ds for $150 when they could have a psp for $50 more? the difference in hardware quality is just so manifest, from the chipsets to the screens to the plastics they're built out of. i expect a lot of those "tba" ds projects to evaporate or move to psp as well. castlevania seems like a prime candidate; igarashi already had his doubts about its suitability to the ds hardware. ds will be stillborn.

I understand this thinking and all, and why people don't add in those extra costs into the system's price tag. But, I'm willing to bet you won't be spending $200 at launch. Probably closer to $250 with hardware. To be fair, I treat consoles the same way, maybe I'm the only one who sees it as this. But a device, like the memory stick, that is so fundementally necessary in having a fun gaming experience, should be put into the cost. I actually remember how I felt when I first got a PSX and found out I needed a memory card to save games. That's just my only problem with the yelling and screaming of the doomsday posts. $200 is there to make DS look like crap on a stick, but that's about all it does. I personally hope consumers find the $250 bundle more impressive. Not because it sets itself apart from the DS, but they won't feel screwed out of somethin relatively simple as game saves.

Barnimal · Oct 29, 2004

not only is the ds doomed but nintendo as a whole may be in trouble. their image is shot in the console arena, they are about to get their handheld market atleast halved and they cant do anything about either the console or handheld situations for at minimum 1 1/2 to 2 years. if the psp is a success, they are properly screwed. plain and simple.

DECK'ARD · Oct 29, 2004

I don't think the iPod will be affected much by PSP.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

BTW, I don't think that $250 bundle will be availible in the US. Seems more like a Japanese thing.

They'll probably go with the flat $199.99 MSRP and avoid any confusion about it.

Spike · Oct 29, 2004

Barnimal said:
not only is the ds doomed but nintendo as a whole may be in trouble. their image is shot in the console arena, they are about to get their handheld market atleast halved and they cant do anything about either the console or handheld situations for at minimum 1 1/2 to 2 years. if the psp is a success, they are properly screwed. plain and simple.

Things change.

duderon · Oct 29, 2004

drohne said:
the $200 price is a nintendo-screwing measure. they didn't need to price it that low -- supply will initially be constrained, and surely early adopters would pay $300. but a $200 psp makes a $150 ds look like a scam. who'd feel comfortable buying a ds for $150 when they could have a psp for $50 more? the difference in hardware quality is just so manifest, from the chipsets to the screens to the plastics they're built out of. i expect a lot of those "tba" ds projects to evaporate or move to psp as well. castlevania seems like a prime candidate; igarashi already had his doubts about its suitability to the ds hardware. ds will be stillborn.

I think millions will prefer the DS over the PSP, even with the $50 difference. Nintendo handhelds sell, that's the bottom line. You scream "d00med" in all these threads like you really want DS to fail and i think it's clouding your judgement.

Both will sell, but Nintendo has the experience to sell more. They are not just lying down after this PSP price announcement, they had to have figured this as one of the ways PSP could go and i'm sure they are making adequate adjustments.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

Barnimal said:
not only is the ds doomed but nintendo as a whole may be in trouble. their image is shot in the console arena, they are about to get their handheld market atleast halved and they cant do anything about either the console or handheld situations for at minimum 1 1/2 to 2 years. if the psp is a success, they are properly screwed. plain and simple.

I think they should sign a sweetheart deal with Microsoft while they still can. They hold a large exclusive audience (bigger than any third party aside from EA, maybe even moreso still), if they agree to a partnership agreement they can keep one foot in the hardware biz and compete more directly against Sony without threatening their cash reserves.

Kon Tiki · Oct 29, 2004

Barnimal said:
not only is the ds doomed but nintendo as a whole may be in trouble. their image is shot in the console arena, they are about to get their handheld market atleast halved and they cant do anything about either the console or handheld situations for at minimum 1 1/2 to 2 years. if the psp is a success, they are properly screwed. plain and simple.

If the PSP fails, the PS3 is doomed. Hell even Sony itself will be screwed.

Too bad neither company will be 'doomed'.

Jonnyram · Oct 29, 2004

Finally, a proper gloves-off DS vs PSP thread. Lovely

An issue that noone seems to be mentioning is that PSP will miss the holiday sales in the US. If both machines sell according to their companies' expectations, the end of March we will see 4 million DS vs 1 million PSP. That's quite a big headstart, and I don't actually think Sony will be able to manufacture the PSP quick enough to keep up with the DS for a while, even if there is demand.

Gamewise it doesn't really matter any more. Everyone knows that Nintendo can sell a system based on their games alone. Look how many people bought a GBA for Pokemon and even the Famicom Mini series.

DECK'ARD · Oct 29, 2004

deadlifter said:
I think millions will prefer the DS over the PSP, even with the $50 difference. Nintendo handhelds sell, that's the bottom line.

Gameboys sell, but that name is missing. I think they might regret not going with Gameboy DS.

AniHawk · Oct 29, 2004

deadlifter said:
I think millions will prefer the DS over the PSP, even with the $50 difference. Nintendo handhelds sell, that's the bottom line. You scream "d00med" in all these threads like you really want DS to fail and i think it's clouding your judgement.

Both will sell, but Nintendo has the experience to sell more. They are not just lying down after this PSP price announcement, they had to have figured this as one of the ways PSP could go and i'm sure they are making adequate adjustments.

Of course the counterargument to this is that Sony has had a lot of experience kicking Nintendo's ass.

I think a $130 pricepoint for the DS would be key. By making the system $150, Nintendo makes it okay, and opens the door for the PSP to be $50 more. A $20 cheaper system, although $20 isn't really a whole lot, is a much different scenario for the consumer at a psychological standpoint, as it's closer to $100 than it is $200.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

There really is no headstart. Nintendo is projecting 4 million DS' by the end of March 2005. Sony is saying 3 million PSPs by the end of March 2005.

Chances are both of these numbers reflect the maximum output of systems both companies are capable of manufacturing.

So it'd only be a 1 million difference.

Spike · Oct 29, 2004

AniHawk said:
Of course the counterargument to this is that Sony has had a lot of experience kicking Nintendo's ass.

I think a $130 pricepoint for the DS would be key. By making the system $150, Nintendo makes it okay, and opens the door for the PSP to be $50 more. A $20 cheaper system, although $20 isn't really a whole lot, is a much different scenario for the consumer at a psychological standpoint, as it's closer to $100 than it is $200.

The game prices will come into play. Until SCEA announces the pricing for the games, there really isn't any way anyone can accurately predict anything.

Barnimal · Oct 29, 2004

soundwave05 said:
There really is no headstart. Nintendo is projecting 4 million DS' by the end of March 2005. Sony is saying 3 million PSPs by the end of March 2005.

So it'd only be a 1 million difference.

that was before they considered sony a true competitor. they made the same fatal mistake misjudging what MS could do to the console market.

Dragona Akehi · Oct 29, 2004

drohne said:
the $200 price is a nintendo-screwing measure. they didn't need to price it that low -- supply will initially be constrained, and surely early adopters would pay $300. but a $200 psp makes a $150 ds look like a scam. who'd feel comfortable buying a ds for $150 when they could have a psp for $50 more? the difference in hardware quality is just so manifest, from the chipsets to the screens to the plastics they're built out of. i expect a lot of those "tba" ds projects to evaporate or move to psp as well. castlevania seems like a prime candidate; igarashi already had his doubts about its suitability to the ds hardware. ds will be stillborn.

This is very very true.

Nintendo has only one hope if you ask me, and even then, the writing is on the wall:

Even with this though, I say Sony has the handheld market in ten years. If not sooner.

drohne · Oct 29, 2004

i enjoy the argument that "nintendo knows the handheld market!!!" history won't get you a thing in the marketplace; judge nintendo and sony by their most recent products. psp is a brilliantly engineered, eminently marketable handheld at a cutthroat price. it gives gamers what they so plainly want rather than telling them what they should want. ds is an oddball contraption conceptualized by an old coot rather than the designers who won nintendo their fame. the hardware's a generation behind, and it's hardly any cheaper. it uses the same chip as the fucking n-gage, which ea's john riticello rightly recognized as a dog the moment he touched it. nintendo obviously do not know the handheld market. not anymore.

and it's astonishing that people think nintendo can shrug the ds off and introduce another portable shortly thereafter, with no negative impact to their brand or credibility, simply because the ds isn't called "game boy." you might look to the example of sega. that's who nintendo looks increasingly like. a very cash-rich sega with better ip.

Spike · Oct 29, 2004

drohne said:
castlevania seems like a prime candidate; igarashi already had his doubts about its suitability to the ds hardware. ds will be stillborn.

Link please.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

Allign with Microsoft, make a touch-screen Game Boy with GCN level graphics. Put Windows on it and you have a unit that can double as a PDA.

The thing about the Sony situation is I gauruntee Sony pulls the same stunt with the PS3 -- big losses upfront with Blu-Ray included.

It's hard enough for Nintendo to compete when they have their issues with the teen/young adult demographic as is.

You throw that factor into the mix and it just becomes almost insurmountable IMO.

I definitely believe Sony is leading the industry to a point where every hardware maker will be losing a lot of money.

You can see this philosophy in their movie studios (Columbia) and electronics divisions -- sometimes they barely turn a profit for a full freaking *decade*.

drohne · Oct 29, 2004

Spike said:
Link please.

ask exxy on this very forum. he talked to igarashi at e3.

ge-man · Oct 29, 2004

drohne said:
nintendo obviously do not know the handheld market. not anymore.

I don't agree with that statement yet. This is unchartered territory that we're going into. We have no idea how things are going to shape up--the handheld market is different from consoles for a number of reasons. But I do agree that Sony has thrown down and that the hardware is incredible.

puck1337 · Oct 29, 2004

Nash said:
I don't think the iPod will be affected much by PSP.

Since the music player market keeps growing, I don't think that their sales will drop, but I think that having such a strong competitor may screw with Apple's iPod sales projections. And with a mass market device to sell music to, word about Sony's online music service is going to get out there and that's going to eat some of iTunes' sales. I guess we'll see what happens in the next few years....

Vieo · Oct 29, 2004

ds is an oddball contraption

I stopped reading there.

Kon Tiki · Oct 29, 2004

drohne said:
i enjoy the argument that "nintendo knows the handheld market!!!" history won't get you a thing in the marketplace; judge nintendo and sony by their most recent products.

Ya they sure do not know how to outsell the most popular console on the market.

Most recent products? Sony's PSX and PStwo vs GBA SP and Gamecube? Asinine to compare products that are not released.

drohne · Oct 29, 2004

Vieo said:
I stopped reading there.

bet you didn't.

Society said:
Ya they sure do not know how to outsell the most popular console on the market.

they don't. ps2's installed base is larger than the gba's. and since the gba's already being replaced, i expect the ps2 to stay ahead.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

The market for HDD based music players is growing, but the market for flash-based music players is not.

That's a big difference. The PSP plays MP3s, but its not a HDD MP3 player.

The whole point of the i-Pod is that you can carry your entire music collection with you where ever you go, and that lets you listen to whatever music you're in the mood for at any given moment.

The PSP is a flash based MP3 player.

If i-Pod ran on memory cards, I gauruntee it would be a fringe product at best.

puck1337 · Oct 29, 2004

drohne said:
you might look to the example of sega. that's who nintendo looks increasingly like. a very cash-rich sega with better ip.

Which, of course, totally destroys the comparison. Sega had no cash, and has very little marketable IP. Nintendo's huge quantity of franchises mean that they can survive the hardest of times, as long as they crap out a new series every now and then to prevent their cash cows from becoming *too* tired.

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