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Nintendo PR on psp's new pricepoint
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Mr_Furious
Member
Sure I can. Nintendo could've just as easily used the same strategy towards the portable market that Sony did. If Nintendo doesn't wise up soon, they'll most definitely be in trouble if they continue to ignore a potentially huge (non-kiddie) market.soundwave05 said:
Let me pose this question: What the hell is Nintendo supposed to do against the PSP, if even a couple years from now? Somehow, I don't think the GBA2 will be the answer if Nintendo's not willing to take a loss on the unit. Nintendo also can't wait too long before their GBA2 is doable for them because the PSP will just penetrate that much more of the portable market.
Nintendo should've been more aggressive with the DS on both a technological and pricepoint level, and that's that.
soundwave05
Member
What exactly is the Sony strategy here ... "look away and pay attention to our electronics division and come back when we're profitable?".
That's how all of Sony's divisions operate and that's a big reason why the company has really lost a lot of steam -- although to their credit, their world-famous brand luster definitely remains.
Nintendo's not even remotely in the same situation. They can't use those same tactics.
For Nintendo to stuff like release a GameCube-level portable now or put Blu-Ray into Revolution ... that would incur massive losses from their P.O.V.
Nintendo needs a hardware partner badly IMO. Whether that's Microsoft or Panasonic or some one else, I don't know. But that's the direction Sony wants to take hardware in.
As a consumer I have no complaints. As an observer of the industry, I do wonder how long that type of "spend, spend, spend!" philosophy can sustain itself though.
That's how all of Sony's divisions operate and that's a big reason why the company has really lost a lot of steam -- although to their credit, their world-famous brand luster definitely remains.
Nintendo's not even remotely in the same situation. They can't use those same tactics.
For Nintendo to stuff like release a GameCube-level portable now or put Blu-Ray into Revolution ... that would incur massive losses from their P.O.V.
Nintendo needs a hardware partner badly IMO. Whether that's Microsoft or Panasonic or some one else, I don't know. But that's the direction Sony wants to take hardware in.
As a consumer I have no complaints. As an observer of the industry, I do wonder how long that type of "spend, spend, spend!" philosophy can sustain itself though.
Mr_Furious said:
I don't think it's that simple. I agree that Nintendo could've been more aggressive, but Sony is out for fucking blood. I refuse to believe what they are saying about profitablity--they are taking REALLY huge losses to essential beat Nintendo down into nothingness. The scenario wouldn't be different if Nintendo had a comparable piece of kit.
I can see that the PSP is MUCH more mainstream friendlier than the DS. The DS renditions of EA's games look -at best- like GBA leftovers wereas the PSP versions are akin to Dreamcast without the terrific IQ. EA also seems to be putting a lot of eggs in the PSP basket. (6 games at launch and 12 within launch window) VS their DS support. Compare Spiderman 2 DS (NGage port?) vs Spiderman 2 PSP (Looks like what the DC version would have been). Furthermore, I think some of the IPs the PSP has will help them gain perception and the hardware itself will attract will be the more popular non-Nintendo franchises. Of course the big push for DS is stylus, but that aspect definitely cannot permeate the majority of games, and I don't think mainstream gamers will go for it.
Of course, Nintendo has Poke'mon and Mario and Zelda. However, if the DS only draws in the Mario/Zelda/Pokemon fanbase, it will stand to be outshined by Sony's virgin effort. Most gamers nowadays are Playstation Generation gamers. They'll identify with the PSP moreso than a Nintendo label (Remember, the DS is not Game Boy).
This will expand, as well as segment, the handheld sector of games. This may pave the way for Handhelds to begin outselling consoles (as a whole) month over month, at least in the US. It may be a good thing for Nintendo in the long run.
I hope Nintendo abandons their usual practices come time for the successor to the GBA/SP. Lets see if they actually create and maintain many positive relationships and dealings, and 'trick out' their hardware.
It would have been MUCH more sane for Nintendo to just continue on with the GBA though. the SNES lived well into the Saturn and PSX age. I'm sure the GBA would have held out until it's successor arrived.
Of course, Nintendo has Poke'mon and Mario and Zelda. However, if the DS only draws in the Mario/Zelda/Pokemon fanbase, it will stand to be outshined by Sony's virgin effort. Most gamers nowadays are Playstation Generation gamers. They'll identify with the PSP moreso than a Nintendo label (Remember, the DS is not Game Boy).
This will expand, as well as segment, the handheld sector of games. This may pave the way for Handhelds to begin outselling consoles (as a whole) month over month, at least in the US. It may be a good thing for Nintendo in the long run.
I hope Nintendo abandons their usual practices come time for the successor to the GBA/SP. Lets see if they actually create and maintain many positive relationships and dealings, and 'trick out' their hardware.
It would have been MUCH more sane for Nintendo to just continue on with the GBA though. the SNES lived well into the Saturn and PSX age. I'm sure the GBA would have held out until it's successor arrived.
so we went from PSP and DS to MS being the top console next gen? How do you figure this? Please explain... How are they gonn amake up for 0 sales in japan? That is 20 million consoles going to sony (or whoever)? Do you think the 100+ mill people who bouugh a ps2 will all of a sudden buy xenons?
soundwave05
Member
The GBA is not going anywhere.
It figures to be the best selling hardware this holiday season easily, I don't see them phasing it out.
I agree Microsoft can't beat Sony, but they may be able to splinter the market, which is what Sega did with the Genesis.
What then happens is Sony is fuxxored because their financial strategy is contingent on having pure market dominance (that's how Kutaragi can convince the Sony brass to take those monster losses early on -- because they're confident the returns will equal the investment and then some down the road a few years).
It figures to be the best selling hardware this holiday season easily, I don't see them phasing it out.
I agree Microsoft can't beat Sony, but they may be able to splinter the market, which is what Sega did with the Genesis.
What then happens is Sony is fuxxored because their financial strategy is contingent on having pure market dominance (that's how Kutaragi can convince the Sony brass to take those monster losses early on -- because they're confident the returns will equal the investment and then some down the road a few years).
DCharlie
Banned
"they are taking REALLY huge losses to essential beat Nintendo down into nothingness. The scenario wouldn't be different if Nintendo had a comparable piece of kit."
one thing that strikes me about Sonys tactic....
If this was the tactic from the start, wouldn't this have lead to even more support? And potentially would have lead people away from the DS?
If they were saying to developers "Hey, PSP - portable Ps2 style performace... and get this! $200!!!" , then would developers see the potential for much better PSP sales, and by extension, more people to buy their launch games?
I'm guessing that either sony :
a) didn't tell anyone a price point , and let them just imagine how horribly expensive it would be
b) they did tell everyone the 19800 price point initially, but the dev costs are too large or developers don't see the point in the PSP (don't want to compete vs movies was given as one reason from devs in famitsu (with price being the top concern))
c) they gave a ball park target figure that *SOME* [edit] developers thought was too high.
one thing that strikes me about Sonys tactic....
If this was the tactic from the start, wouldn't this have lead to even more support? And potentially would have lead people away from the DS?
If they were saying to developers "Hey, PSP - portable Ps2 style performace... and get this! $200!!!" , then would developers see the potential for much better PSP sales, and by extension, more people to buy their launch games?
I'm guessing that either sony :
a) didn't tell anyone a price point , and let them just imagine how horribly expensive it would be
b) they did tell everyone the 19800 price point initially, but the dev costs are too large or developers don't see the point in the PSP (don't want to compete vs movies was given as one reason from devs in famitsu (with price being the top concern))
c) they gave a ball park target figure that *SOME* [edit] developers thought was too high.
soundwave05
Member
I would think "Made in Wario" is the stylus killer app.
Simply because that's a game you can give to anyway and in ten seconds they're playing mini-games with the stylus on it. And its got that quirky style I think that would appeal to even non-gamers.
Simply because that's a game you can give to anyway and in ten seconds they're playing mini-games with the stylus on it. And its got that quirky style I think that would appeal to even non-gamers.
Mr_Furious
Member
The scenario would be greatly different if Nintendo had a comparable portable with the added touchscreen. There would be fewer reasons for someone to buy the PSP over the DS, if the DS had similar horsepower, similar features PLUS the added touchscreen.ge-man said:
Sony would have a much more difficult job at penetrating any fucking market if Nintendo wouldn't make it so easy for them.
soundwave05
Member
DCharlie --
I don't think Sony made a definitive pricing decision until really recently to be honest.
At this point the project is already greenlight and just about ready to launch, I think Kutaragi asked for it and got his wish, because there's simply no turning back now.
If they're gonna do this they might as well play to win.
And Nintendo is making it "easy" on Sony? The PSP might incur bigger losses per unit than the XBox (and Sony doesn't have Bill Gates' chequebook either) ... that's "easy"?
It's not just Nintendo, you find me another portable device with that type of display resolution, horsepower, WiFi, high end casing, MP3/video playback, etc. going for $200 these days.
I don't think Sony made a definitive pricing decision until really recently to be honest.
At this point the project is already greenlight and just about ready to launch, I think Kutaragi asked for it and got his wish, because there's simply no turning back now.
If they're gonna do this they might as well play to win.
And Nintendo is making it "easy" on Sony? The PSP might incur bigger losses per unit than the XBox (and Sony doesn't have Bill Gates' chequebook either) ... that's "easy"?
It's not just Nintendo, you find me another portable device with that type of display resolution, horsepower, WiFi, high end casing, MP3/video playback, etc. going for $200 these days.
Mr_Furious
Member
That doesn't make sense when you look at all of the PS2 games in developmentDCharlie said:
soundwave05
Member
I'm saying it's the game that demonstrates the use of the stylus to a consumer who doesn't know what it's about. I didn't say Made in Wario was a DS killer app, I said it was a killer application for the stylus.
Obviously if you're talking sales, as of now there's only one game that can sell portables all by itself and that's Pokemon.
There won't be a single game that doesn not on PSP either, it'll have to be a combination of software titles and the "wow" factor of having PS2-level visuals on the go, along with that sleek design.
Portable sales tend to be more about the overall platform, it's generally not a "holy cow!!!! I can't believe it! Now I have to buy a Game Boy or PSP just for this one game!!!" type deal. There's usually a lot of "well, I want a Game Boy, but I don't know which game I should get" type consumers in the portable relam who make their game decision at the store.
The real show piece titles by and large will always be on consoles first. Pokemon is the exception, definitely not the rule.
Obviously if you're talking sales, as of now there's only one game that can sell portables all by itself and that's Pokemon.
There won't be a single game that doesn not on PSP either, it'll have to be a combination of software titles and the "wow" factor of having PS2-level visuals on the go, along with that sleek design.
Portable sales tend to be more about the overall platform, it's generally not a "holy cow!!!! I can't believe it! Now I have to buy a Game Boy or PSP just for this one game!!!" type deal. There's usually a lot of "well, I want a Game Boy, but I don't know which game I should get" type consumers in the portable relam who make their game decision at the store.
The real show piece titles by and large will always be on consoles first. Pokemon is the exception, definitely not the rule.
Okay, so you responded to my origional question but not in an attempt to actually answer the question but use guessimates and hope as a factor to defend the DS. Genius.
No. Really.
Anyway, the question still stands.
You could have at least responded with that Pokemon racing game.
No. Really.
Anyway, the question still stands.
You could have at least responded with that Pokemon racing game.
Mr_Furious
Member
Yes they are. Sony took a stronghold on the home market back in the 32-bit days because of 2 major factors:soundwave05 said:
1) They targeted a much larger and more significant audience that Nintendo decided to ignore
2) There machine was easier to develop for and was CD-based which was both better and cheaper for developers.
It's been an upwill battle for Nintendo ever since but both points can be applied here with the minor exception of the dev environments. I haven't heard definitively, which portable is easier to develop for.
And it's that aggressiveness that will pose a real problem for Nintendo in the near future.soundwave05 said:
evilromero
Member
Metroid Prime Hunters. Wouldn't be the same without it. WATCH the latest demonstration. Do not comment on this reply without watching the demo.Vagabond said:
soundwave05
Member
I dunno what the question you're asking me is specifically.
Are you saying titles like Mario 64 DS and Wario Ware are "niche" titles?
If you're asking is there one "OMYGAAAAWD! I must now buy DS!" software title availible irrespective of the stylus, then Pokemon Pearl/Diamond is most likely it.
There isn't one standout on the PSP either. Even with Gran Turismo Mobile, most people will have it on the PS2 and won't want to pay $50 again for the same basic game a few weeks later.
Both portables have to rely on an overall library to showcase their features and enhance their appeal.
Are you saying titles like Mario 64 DS and Wario Ware are "niche" titles?
If you're asking is there one "OMYGAAAAWD! I must now buy DS!" software title availible irrespective of the stylus, then Pokemon Pearl/Diamond is most likely it.
There isn't one standout on the PSP either. Even with Gran Turismo Mobile, most people will have it on the PS2 and won't want to pay $50 again for the same basic game a few weeks later.
Both portables have to rely on an overall library to showcase their features and enhance their appeal.
Sigh, I love Nintendo, and I can't say that I like Sony...but Nintendo is in a hard place right now. It should be interesting to see how they handle it.
My biggest worry though is, how much of their resources, and game development will go to the DS as apposed to the Revolution and Gamecube?
My biggest worry though is, how much of their resources, and game development will go to the DS as apposed to the Revolution and Gamecube?
soundwave05
Member
That's just public relations though people. You'd have to be stupid to think they really don't view the PSP as competition and that's the reason why they're going to lose marketshare.
If the PSP didn't exist, the DS would be pretty damn impressive, there aren't really any devices with WiFi, voice, touch screen, 3D graphics, dual screen, etc. for a mass market friendly $150 price point. That's a lot of bang for the buck.
If the PSP didn't exist, the DS would be pretty damn impressive, there aren't really any devices with WiFi, voice, touch screen, 3D graphics, dual screen, etc. for a mass market friendly $150 price point. That's a lot of bang for the buck.
CajoleJuice
Member
Seriously, I hope PSP creates such a threat to Nintendo that Nintendo decides to partner with Microsoft or something to put their 1st-party games on XBox 2 and Nintendo decides to mostly concentrate on handheld hardware and software. God that would make me so happy. There are too many consoles.
I'd agree, except Nintendo's history isn't strong in this area. I REALLY believe Nintendo believed that it wasn't in competition with PlayStation 2 and Xbox when it said it wasn't. So it's very difficult to differentiate Nintendo's PR speak from its true beliefs.soundwave05 said:
soundwave05
Member
PuertoRicanJuice said:
I agree with that point, I just hope if such a scenario takes place that it would be a partnership set in stone and Nintendo would retain complete financial and creative independence of course.
I have no qualms with a joint platform though. They have the same tech partners and their strengths fill out the others weaknesses. It's a good match. Ken Lobb would be the ideal emmissary between the two companies.
It is not only a pain in the ass to buy that much hardware, but its also I think a good way for Nintendo to maintain influence in the hardware market. There's no way they should ever even consider being a regular joe third party. Make no mistake Sega was forced into that role, and even after that most of their higher ups spoke of their disdain about the situation.
Mr_Furious
Member
N64 vs PS1, for that matter.snapty00 said:
Mr_Furious
Member
It's also a pain in the ass for the industry to support this much hardwaresoundwave05 said:
I don't get it. Two people have perfectly understood and answered the question, and responded accordingly (and I thank them) however it flies over your head? For someone so verbose (in typing) I would have thought for sure that you could have interpreted the question.soundwave05 said:
Wario Ware is a hit on the level of Super Mario 64? Remind me again how much the GBA and Gamecube iterations have sold. That aside, I'm sure it'll sell well, but it won't really turn a lot of consumer heads. Mario 64 DS does not use the stylus to any essential degree.
The aforementioned Pokemon titles have not yet been disclosed as to how they'll use the stylus. They'll sell very well (Perhaps not as much as previous iterations due to the much more limited DS base).
With the PSP, there is nothing to the Poke` or Halo levels, but overall the titles it has garnered are much more appealing to the mainstream than the collective DS offerings.
Fine, but you don't think the appeal is limited, irregardless of the franchise attached? I have my doubts.evilromero said:
soundwave05
Member
I really feel like there can only be two major hardware platforms anyway. Nintendo gave it a good shot with the GameCube, it wasn't meant to be.
If Sony is going to keep using these tactics, eventually Nintendo's position will become more compromised.
Microsoft is itching for any type of advantage they can get right now, Nintendo would be able to enter as a partner rather than a sub-servant developer if they wanted to I think.
Microsoft could also help them in the portable arena, similar to how they push Pocket PCs made by other manufacturers. Halo on the Game Boy or Windows on a touch screen Game Boy would provide the unit with a ton more funcitonality.
If Sony is going to keep using these tactics, eventually Nintendo's position will become more compromised.
Microsoft is itching for any type of advantage they can get right now, Nintendo would be able to enter as a partner rather than a sub-servant developer if they wanted to I think.
Microsoft could also help them in the portable arena, similar to how they push Pocket PCs made by other manufacturers. Halo on the Game Boy or Windows on a touch screen Game Boy would provide the unit with a ton more funcitonality.
soundwave05
Member
To address your point Vagabond, you just can't pull a Super Mario 64 outta your butt on cue. That's like asking a movie studio to pull out a Titanic or Sixth Sense every summer.
Game's like that are very, very rare.
The jump from 2D to 3D is a monumental thing.
So what if the stylus support isn't as monumental. It doesn't mean it's not relavant.
The stylus support with the right type of software like Wario Ware for instance does create a situation where people who just find video games completely counter-intuitive can get into it and start playing.
That's something my sister for instance could pick up and play, and she never plays video games.
That's pretty extraordinary.
Of course DS is a risk, I believe Nintendo said that right from the start they were aiming for only about 10% of people at E3 to like it.
Game's like that are very, very rare.
The jump from 2D to 3D is a monumental thing.
So what if the stylus support isn't as monumental. It doesn't mean it's not relavant.
The stylus support with the right type of software like Wario Ware for instance does create a situation where people who just find video games completely counter-intuitive can get into it and start playing.
That's something my sister for instance could pick up and play, and she never plays video games.
That's pretty extraordinary.
Of course DS is a risk, I believe Nintendo said that right from the start they were aiming for only about 10% of people at E3 to like it.
soundwave05 said:
Nintendo could support a niche console if they wanted to. But that's the rub, what kind of desire do they have left in the console realm? It's beginning to look pointless because Sony and MS have different ideas what a console should be, and the rest of the industry outside of Nintendo is pretty much following in line.
Regardless, I think they are more like to just go portable only than enter into partnerships or go 3rd party.
soundwave05
Member
Regardless, I think they are more like to just go portable only than enter into partnerships or go 3rd party.
This would badly damage their IPs though. The reason why their IPs are so valuable are because they're beloved to people and the reason for that is because millions play those games.
You need the hardware to facilitate that though.
This would badly damage their IPs though. The reason why their IPs are so valuable are because they're beloved to people and the reason for that is because millions play those games.
You need the hardware to facilitate that though.
I'm thinking a mix of Game Boy Advance/Gamecube with Microsoft's Portable Media Center and DirectX CE APIsoundwave05 said:
The advantages are too pronounced, however Microsoft and Nintendo work in opposite directions. I doubt it'd work out, although MS has offered 25 BILLION to work with them and it *almost* went through. I can almost taste, however, wireless functionality between Microsoft's upcoming OSes and the Wifi/Bluetooth of the next GBA (As MS has been pushing for other portable media/multimedia devices). Can you imagine that?! It'd be amazing. MSN Messenger portable. Media Center Portable. Networking and wireless printing (Using a printer connected to your PC as the GBA printer and your digicam as the camera?). Music, Video and image storing/portable viewing. Plus, Microsoft has been prepping a challenger to the iTunes music service, and this could be the push needed to oppose and overtake the others in digital rights and management..
Remember, guys: software drives hardware.
Sony IS a threat to nintendo, but this happened before: Gameboy vs. Game Gear
You have the original gameboy, and then you have the game gear, which had Sega's great first party games, 3rd party support just as good as the PSP is getting, and hardware somewhere between the NES and the Genesis, more towards the genesis.
Now, we have the DS, a system that's somewhere between N64 and DC Level hardware, closer to N64 level, against the PSP, somewhere between DC and Ps2 hardware.
Now, by all means, anything is possible. Sony could cream Nintendo. Nintendo could cream sony. It could turn out a draw. But this isn't the first time a Nintendo handheld has faced competition from another company that is releasing a portable that's extremely powerful, close to that of their current home systems.
True, Sega didn't have the cash that Sony did. But Sega had the support, they had the marketing, they had the same hardware advantages (and disadvantages) that Sony has over Nintendo with the PSP.
One thing's for sure: It's gonna be a war.
Sony IS a threat to nintendo, but this happened before: Gameboy vs. Game Gear
You have the original gameboy, and then you have the game gear, which had Sega's great first party games, 3rd party support just as good as the PSP is getting, and hardware somewhere between the NES and the Genesis, more towards the genesis.
Now, we have the DS, a system that's somewhere between N64 and DC Level hardware, closer to N64 level, against the PSP, somewhere between DC and Ps2 hardware.
Now, by all means, anything is possible. Sony could cream Nintendo. Nintendo could cream sony. It could turn out a draw. But this isn't the first time a Nintendo handheld has faced competition from another company that is releasing a portable that's extremely powerful, close to that of their current home systems.
True, Sega didn't have the cash that Sony did. But Sega had the support, they had the marketing, they had the same hardware advantages (and disadvantages) that Sony has over Nintendo with the PSP.
One thing's for sure: It's gonna be a war.
Vagabond said:I'm thinking a mix of Game Boy Advance/Gamecube with Microsoft's Portable Media Center and DirectX CE API
The advantages are too pronounced, however Microsoft and Nintendo work in opposite directions. I doubt it'd work out, although MS has offered 25 BILLION to work with them and it *almost* went through. I can almost taste, however, wireless functionality between Microsoft's upcoming OSes and the Wifi/Bluetooth of the next GBA (As MS has been pushing for other portable media/multimedia devices). Can you imagine that?! It'd be amazing. MSN Messenger portable. Media Center Portable. Networking and wireless printing (Using a printer connected to your PC as the GBA printer and your digicam as the camera?). Music, Video and image storing/portable viewing. Plus, Microsoft has been prepping a challenger to the iTunes music service, and this could be the push needed to oppose and overtake the others in digital rights and management..
Wait, it ALMOST went through? What's your source for that? We know that MS offered ~20 billion to buy Nintendo,and that Nintendo refused, but I have NEVER heard that it "almost went through."
To hammer in a point: Could you imagine carrying your .Net passport on your GBA successor? Microsoft still has some very "out there" and innovative uses for the fledgeling .Net infrastructure.
Microsoft still has some very "out there" and innovative uses for the fledgeling .Net infrastructure.but until something on the level comes up within a few months of DS launch the touch screen capabilities would not even be an afterthought to the money spending consumer.
Well, look at it this way.
With PSP you can play portable port's of PS2 games (GT4, Hot Shots Golf) at near PS2 graphical quality for about $50 more DS.
With DS you can play port's of N64 games (Mario 64, Ridge Racer 64) at near N64 graphical quality for about $50 less then PSP.
Hmmm....current generation portability vs. past/last generation portability?...
With PSP you can play portable port's of PS2 games (GT4, Hot Shots Golf) at near PS2 graphical quality for about $50 more DS.
With DS you can play port's of N64 games (Mario 64, Ridge Racer 64) at near N64 graphical quality for about $50 less then PSP.
Hmmm....current generation portability vs. past/last generation portability?...
GaimeGuy said:
the game gear hardware was virtually identical to the master system's. it was nowhere near a genesis.
there's been other portable hardware that approaches the power of contemporary consoles -- the lynx, turbo express, and nomad come to mind -- but those machines sacrificed portability for power. they were huge. the psp isn't.
Maybe so, but there are good and bad ways to go about it...soundwave05 said:
Tell me, who does this really speak to other than the already converted? Not to mention the oblique insult to developers of PSP software by suggesting they have yet to provide any "fundamental" software. Some of these devs are the same people that Nintendo is happy to list as providing DS software.
So there's Nintendo's approach in this case: Insult the competition in a way that is patently false and then threaten to burn some bridges with 3rd parties for good measure.
Meanwhile, Kutaragi's response amounts to saying, "May the best man win."
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