If drawing a picture of three burly men snuggling is homophobic, then I should take a photo of me with another mans cock in my mouth, that'll really stick it to the gays!
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G. Kamitani replies to J. Schreier's Kotaku article on Dragon's Crown (slightly NSFW)
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If drawing a picture of three burly men snuggling is homophobic, then I should take a photo of me with another mans cock in my mouth, that'll really stick it to the gays!
reptilescorpio
Member
Aren't a lot of his designs drawing from that homoerotic depiction? Judging by a quick Tumblr search he has done quite a wide range of styles.
spandexmonkey
Banned
Do we know for certain the men pictured are only appealing to homosexuals? If a woman finds that image attractive wouldn't that also suggest the artist is implying he can make images for "immature" women?
I'm at work got dammit. How do I explain the laughing and coffee spilling?
Delusibeta
Banned
M°°nblade;55033024 said:
Explain to them that you found a dick joke funny. Or something.
Perhaps, but even then I don't see it as an insult.
You don't like our buxom women? Maybe some burly men would tickle your fancy instead.
Moral Panic
Member
Personally, I agree with Kotaku. Maybe the way they put it was rather off the cuff, but otherwise I am in agreement with the premise. I find the designs for the female characters to be rather off-putting, and it certainly seems (to my untrained eye) to be aimed at a more juvenile audience. Perhaps it's because I consume a rather large amount of Japanese media, but a certain trend has definitely been seen by me, that overt sexualisation is used in media aimed at male teenagers, compared to the different styles used is female aimed, or more adult aimed products.
I guess you have the same take on Crystal Maiden, Drow Ranger and Lina in Dota as well?
cj_iwakura
Member
I see it more as 'well, if you find sexy women offensive, here's something that should make you feel better'.
It's been said that the guys in DC are just as exaggerated as the women. And it's Kamitami's style, it's not like this is somehow new to Dragon's Crown. People suddenly notice a style that's been around for years = controversy.
And that article in the OP is terrible.
It's been said that the guys in DC are just as exaggerated as the women. And it's Kamitami's style, it's not like this is somehow new to Dragon's Crown. People suddenly notice a style that's been around for years = controversy.
And that article in the OP is terrible.
And be called homophobic? I don't think so.
Knux-Future
Banned
This place can be really tiring at times.
Now he's a homophobe?
geezus.
I'm just gonna ignore any thread about any ism. It will make life a lot better.
Games should be about how fun they are or not. Not any ethical issues and such. It really shouldn't be this big of a deal.
Why can't we just let people enjoy what they enjoy without looking down on them for doing so? This hurts no one. This is a niche ass game. It's success or failure will mean nothing in the long run. There will be "sexist' imagetry no matter what happens. No more or no less will be made thanks to the sucess or failure of it. So why is there such a big ass stink about it? Why insult those who do like it? Why should something they like go away? Because you say so? Because YOU deem it offensive?
This is what I don't get at all. We get so pissed when stuff is kept from us or dudes seek to ban videogames...and yet....we seemingly wish to do the same? Why?
You guys could take the fun out of everything. I wonder fi you go around constantly overthinking everything. It can't be fun.
Gaming-Age is crazy depressing some days. It's frustrating to see how much people just constantly find something to be angry and argue about...about goddam videogames. I know it can;t all be sunshine and lollipops..but the negativity from people really really sucks. I know "bu-but stay out of the threads" or "your whining is just as bad" but it's spilling over into every thread almost.
Can't we all get along? It's okay to dissagree but the holier than thou or perhaps unintended smugness really makes that dissagreement more of an insult that perhaps intended.
Rant Over...needed to get that off my chest.
sorry
Now he's a homophobe?
geezus.
I'm just gonna ignore any thread about any ism. It will make life a lot better.
Games should be about how fun they are or not. Not any ethical issues and such. It really shouldn't be this big of a deal.
Why can't we just let people enjoy what they enjoy without looking down on them for doing so? This hurts no one. This is a niche ass game. It's success or failure will mean nothing in the long run. There will be "sexist' imagetry no matter what happens. No more or no less will be made thanks to the sucess or failure of it. So why is there such a big ass stink about it? Why insult those who do like it? Why should something they like go away? Because you say so? Because YOU deem it offensive?
This is what I don't get at all. We get so pissed when stuff is kept from us or dudes seek to ban videogames...and yet....we seemingly wish to do the same? Why?
You guys could take the fun out of everything. I wonder fi you go around constantly overthinking everything. It can't be fun.
Gaming-Age is crazy depressing some days. It's frustrating to see how much people just constantly find something to be angry and argue about...about goddam videogames. I know it can;t all be sunshine and lollipops..but the negativity from people really really sucks. I know "bu-but stay out of the threads" or "your whining is just as bad" but it's spilling over into every thread almost.
Can't we all get along? It's okay to dissagree but the holier than thou or perhaps unintended smugness really makes that dissagreement more of an insult that perhaps intended.
Rant Over...needed to get that off my chest.
sorry
I didn't even mentioned Oswald in the first place but was brought up by someone else. And that person asked if Oswald looks like teen. And I said no. The problem with Oswald is that even though his body was drawn in adult or at least teen manner, his face betrays it. Thus, the awkwardness for me.
I respect both sides of the argument in this threads but be gracious, it's an easy way out of this situation. You took a shot at him and he retaliate, lest it becomes a never-ending vicious cycle.
Do yourself a favour and don't bring your ego into the equation. And don't go to your friends on twitter for a little boost in esteem either.
Though you did post a really shitty article, the issue isn't about you.
How much is there to respond to? You insulted someone and they insulted you back.
What is it about the Sorceress' art design that it fuels so much discussion and condescension? If you like it you're a juvenile immature pervert, if you don't you're a stuck up prude etc. All because of some big tits.
I simply don't understand. Especially because she's just a part of a triumvirate of diverse female body design.
I simply don't understand. Especially because she's just a part of a triumvirate of diverse female body design.
The Elf and Wizard don't have exaggerated proportions. But selecting a piece to represent the whole is just one of the issues in that blurb. It's just full of wrong.
Yea, I had to stop for a fap when I saw the dwarves as well. I recovered in time to post in here before too many replies went through, so you should be fine. Take a shower though.
It's the combined effect . Here, I drew a picture you may like better *naked men cuddling*
It's not classy. I don't think it is homophobic necessarily, but it amounts to 'If you don't like this, have some gay stuff since you like gay stuff'.
If JS is openly gay, it is probably harmless and not offensive in the slightest. If he is not, it is in pretty poor taste.
It's not about who they appeal to, they are cuddling.
Again, naked (implied) men cuddling.
Gokurakumaru
Banned
I can't wait until the game is out and the haters can move onto the next storm in a teacup.
Seeing all these threads about Dragon's Crown and none of them talking about the actual game is equal parts infuriating and depressing.
Seeing all these threads about Dragon's Crown and none of them talking about the actual game is equal parts infuriating and depressing.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Looks like some locker room/bath house banter to me*shrug*
There is nothing sexy about these women. Huge(huge(huge(huge(huge(insanely huge))))) boobs does not make someone sexy, especially not like this. Same goes for men, their heart would have dropped like a rock if it had to live with these proportions.
It is not offensive, imho, but it clearly is a big joke. A self-conscious joke, maybe, but still a joke nevertheless.
It is not offensive, imho, but it clearly is a big joke. A self-conscious joke, maybe, but still a joke nevertheless.
I'm sure Kamitani is quite happy about all this attention for his small niche game. And Schreier got plenty of hits out of it as well. Win-win situation really.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Holy shit.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Uh, you are aware that some people in general specially friends that have grown up together dont tend to give a shit about a situation like that right?I want to know where your locker room is... for reasons.
Guys can feel comfortable around other guys that are naked without it being gay.
What you call cuddling as well, I call the top guy teasing or just being annoying to the middle one. Read the faces.
To top it off, this is medieval fantasy the whole eww icky burly men together hanging out acting buddy buddy is gay! Thing wasn't really a thing.
We cannot ignore the gender gap. The recourse is thinking about how we design female characters in game, what it means, how it affects the game and what it says about the character and world. It means developers have to be extra careful when designing these characters, especially when they decide to play up their sexuality, because they do not exist in a void. Sexualization in and of itself is not the problem, the problem is the objectification that it causes.
For example, In the P:E kickstarter a design with breast armor was posted, fans reaction made them changed it into a much better regular armor. Fans should encourage developers to think harder on how they treat women, especially considering how few there are in he industry.
As for criticizing - I'm saying these designs are problematic, and that we as gamers should encourage developers to think of us as more than hopeless sacks of hormones. If I said that I don't like auto-heal in FPSs, does that mean I think Call of Duty shouldn't exist? Come on.
So this thread is turning into privileged heterosexual males deluding themselves? Alright then.
SolidSnakex
Member
The Dwarf gameplay thread actually had quite a bit of gameplay talk in it.
Why can't you just be content in your knowledge that you aren't the target market for this game and leave it at that. Trying to draw some tenuous link between the overly large breasts of a fantasy Sorceress character and the objectification of women in the real world seems weak at best, unless you have any actual evidence to the contrary.
To expand on your Call of Duty example, do you go into every FPS thread and start rallying against violence in games because it glorifies violence in the real world? Or is this the faux outrage du jour?
How about you look at the art of the game as a whole instead of this desing in particular.
Again, if you don't want the content modified or censored, what do you want?
It seems as though you just want to flaunt your 'awareness' or something.
All heterosexual males are privileged. All males are privileged. All heterosexuals are privileged. Basically, I wonder why you felt the need to mention their privilege.
No shit :/
If you don't feel it is intentionally homoerotic, that's fine. We disagree.
It'd probably be best if you didn't.
Next game they'll be going for is killer is dead.
gundamkyoukai
Member
The problem i have with this is you feel that fans or males can speak for women .
I show some of my female friends Dragon's Crown and all they did was laugh at it none of them found it offense or cared either way .
This whole idea that we need white knights to defend females in video games is becoming a joke when there is no context to it .
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Isn't that counterproductive to the whole thing in the first place?
Pinko Marx
Banned
dude. I think you're overthinking this one bro. This is a fantasy game, all the characters are exaggerated in one way or another.
The Dwarf is a mountain of meat.
The Amazon is a mountain of meat.
The fighter has a chest the size of a literal chest.
The only two playable characters that are even slightly normal are the Elf and Wizard.
And then you have the NPCs you meet along the way, all with exaggerated and completely unrealistic proportions. Its this game's artstyle, and its been consistent in every piece of media shown.
Theres no sexism or misogyny going on here. Its a game with an artstyle that takes inspirations from old school D&D, throws in a little animu, and cranks everything up to 11.
There ought to be room for this sort of thing within the gaming industry.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of the art, this is already going downhill. Any additional response to this will just make the trip to the bottom faster.
How will women know what to be offended by if men don't tell 'em?
gundamkyoukai
Member
Like my edit says depending on the context yes it is .
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