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The Writing-GAF Mega Thread

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Ashes

Banned
Tldr is quite simple, I will read any advice or whatever with pleasure.

There are those who believe that Writing is a Craft, and they will say that you need to work on your writing.

There are those who think Writing is an Art, and they will say, that you need to master your god given talent.

And there are those who say that it is a mixture of both - comes naturally at the best of times, and difficult at others. I suppose they'll say work at it. Whatever 'it' is.

Whatever it is, I think the best advice is to write. write. write.

And read. read. read.

And depending on who you are aiming to please, you may not even need to write well either!
 
Tldr is quite simple, I will read any advice or whatever with pleasure.

One of my novels took what ... about 15 years to finish? Stuff just kept coming up and I kept waiting for the right time. A vacation, a house with a balcony overlooking the ocean, that sort of stuff. What I've learnt is there is no right time, you just need to get stuck in there and do it.

The good news is it isn't going anywhere, it'll all still be inside you when it is ready to come out.

My take on getting things done is it is a lot like intending to go to the gym and work out. Good intentions are all fine and it sounds easy, but a lot of the time people fail to follow through after trying it for a day or another very short period.

This is because of a few reasons. Firstly the simple one is that it is hard on your body and mind and so is writing. There are a lot of easier and more fun things you can be doing. Not much you can do about this.

The other thing is, myself included, people skip part the most important part of the process and assume it is just a given. By this I mean people don't focus on the "going to the gym" or "sitting down to write" part. Given this is the most important step, it really deserves more attention. The focus I used to have was all about my story and characters and what I was going to do once I sat down to get to work. The thing is I never got to that point where I was actually ready to work, so all that was wasted.

So don't just plan "to write". Sit down and work out how you are going to write. What days are you going to do it? Where are you going to write? How many words and what is your deadline? Try to get a definite process down so that if you fail, you can measure and record why and then improve on what you are trying to do next time.

This might sound a bit anti-creative, but I believe the planning comes first and then the creative side of you can take over. If you don't really plan out how you are going to write this thing, it'll just get harder and harder to do.

what if a wind mage was born with the personality of Heath Ledger's Joker?"

Note to self, steal Elfforkusu's ideas ;)
 

Woorloog

Banned
Just a little bit on world building:

I find it incredibly fun. When you're writing it's time to write. But when you're on the phone with a nagging customer who won't stop going on about their doctor, it's a great time to wonder if the Zuun had actual scales or more of a scaly coloration to their skin or whether your mages are called "mages" or "magickers" or "hex slingers".
Just some thoughts as a reader, not directed @bengraven necessarily.

Don't use "magickers" or "magicians". Those sound so incredbily silly, make me think about these show-magicians (pull-a-rabbit-out-of-a-hat-types). Also, no one feel obliged to listen to me, it is just that in most contexts those words don't seem to be fitting.
I'm also going to say no to "mage" as well, and its variations. It is too... broad, and far too common. Again, it may have its place but... eh, you know. Perhaps it works well with broad magic system, but more specialized systems (like Brandon Sanderson's Allomancy) could use more specific word. Besides, i like the word "wizard" more than "mage". "Warlock" is also good.
"Hex slinger" sounds interesting but also kind of... physical? Something like, you prepare a spell, and use a frigging real sling to sling it. Could fit setting with "Voodoo" magic. *scribbles some notes*

For me, I've become interested in world-building because I feel like I need "rules" when I'm writing, especially stories with fantastic or science fictional elements. I've actually (and this is embarrassing), played out story bits in already created universes just to force myself to play by said universes' rules. Example: I can't just obliterate the guy who's come to collect on my bounty, because this is the Dying Earth and I only memorized one spell for seducing women that day and I need more time to meditate. Or I just smashed a guy's head in, but it's okay because I have a writ for his execution given by the thane of Vivec. God, that's terrible to admit, but when I'm trying to storyboard an idea in my head I like to basically fan fiction day dream the story out. Don't hate me.
Rules are good, ensure consistent, logical world.
The real world has rules, so should fictional ones.
That said, readers don't need to know all the rules right away, you can show something that looks like an "exception", only to reveal later how it really works, though this must be done carefully, also it must be made clear that people in-universe don't know all the rules.
Must think everything through beforehand, of course. Otherwise it will be an asspull or retcon or some other crap.

Also... What's "Vivec" (the city, i presume, which doesn't have a thane by the way) doing there? Fan fiction day dream? Oh, carry on.


I'm glad to hear you guys would like it. I've actually found a lot of support on this forum and others for my novel ideas, for the most part. What was frustrating me was that I don't have anyone "IRL" to share the ideas with, to bounce off. I may need to find a more permanent writing group.
Perhaps we need some sort IRC/Skype/Steam/whatever group for sharing and tweaking worldbuilding ideas, since there seems to be a lot of interest to that here.

Lack of people IRL who'd be interested in bouncing ideas can be frustrating. In practice, i have only one friend with whom i can do this but we rarely have time for it, and it is just an occasional interest to him.
Also, I keep feeling like having magicians in the Old West isn't enough - I feel like I want more fantastic elements occasionally. Maybe I should have werewolves or dwarves and elves - like Shadowrun set in the Old West. I keep resisting and I WILL resist Steampunk because despite fitting into the time period, I just don't really dig on Steampunk.

To combat these urges, I just started writing an epic fantasy novel. Seems to have cooled them down and now I'm writing the magicians in the old West novel idea again.
If you don't like Steampunk, how come you're even thinking about it?
Perhaps you should try to use Steampunk elements, if they would fit. Just insist to everyone that the book's genre is not Steampunk, which it won't be just by including a few elements similar to Steampunk.

Perhaps you need to write the idea out, and then think what it needs. I wouldn't avoid it if it kept sticking to my mind, that's kind impossible.
Still not sure what i'm going to do with pirates+magic combo... *glances at the note about "hex slingers"*
Actually... perhaps i do...
I have fallen madly in love with the Old West and Western media in the last 13 years - obviously much more since the resurgance in films and the gorilla in the room: Red Dead Redemption.

My first love was always fantasy, though. I've been writing and re-writing a western fantasy novel for years and it's not really "shoe horned" in together, but finding the right balance has been a constant burden. One that I've shared on this forum a few times.

Too much fantasy, like those Mike Resnick novels and you lose sight of what makes your "mixed genre" great - it just feels like a fantasy novel full of stereotypes from another genre. Too much of the other genre and the fantasy elements may feel unnecessary or rushed.

The balance is a constant problem for me, but one that's mostly been solved this past year.
In one book... What about a series with the same world but each book dealing with kind of different themes?
One book set in the world's "Wild West", another book set into... well, whatever you're thinking of. You could have the same world, worldbuilding, but without mixing things too much at once.
That could feel like a hodgepodge series though. Well, someone's sure to like it.

Besides, fantasy works have this silly tendency of not having cultural and technological variations.
You know, like some "Medieval European fantasy" having Europeans all over the world but no Asian or African cultures.
Ninjas and cowboys can co-exist, they probably won't mix though. OTOH, that would make a good story... a ninja who ends up in "Wild West"...
 

jns

Member
Whatever it is, I think the best advice is to write. write. write.

And read. read. read.

This is simple, yet excellent advice. Read your genera (if you got one) but also read far and wide outside it. Read the old classics and the new and take note of why you enjoyed stories or didn't. When you combine this with your own (hopefully) daily writing, you might be surprised just how much you begin to pick up from others work.

If you find the idea of writing daunting, give yourself a 100-300 word limit and 30 minutes and just write something. You can put it away and never look at it again afterwards, but the point will be you have put some words down and _finished_ a project, no matter how tiny it is.

In closing, my advice is always to do what I've quoted from Ashes :0

Good luck!
 

bengraven

Member
Good advice all around. I commend you taking time to answer my insecurities. :p

Just some thoughts as a reader, not directed @bengraven necessarily.

Don't use "magickers" or "magicians". Those sound so incredbily silly, make me think about these show-magicians (pull-a-rabbit-out-of-a-hat-types). Also, no one feel obliged to listen to me, it is just that in most contexts those words don't seem to be fitting.
I'm also going to say no to "mage" as well, and its variations. It is too... broad, and far too common. Again, it may have its place but... eh, you know. Perhaps it works well with broad magic system, but more specialized systems (like Brandon Sanderson's Allomancy) could use more specific word. Besides, i like the word "wizard" more than "mage". "Warlock" is also good.
"Hex slinger" sounds interesting but also kind of... physical? Something like, you prepare a spell, and use a frigging real sling to sling it. Could fit setting with "Voodoo" magic. *scribbles some notes*

Magickers just sounds like something men sitting around, drinking in a mining colony during the Klondike would call people who use magic.

"Hex-slinger" is already out, because I later found out there's a Wild West undead RPG that uses the term.

Rules are good, ensure consistent, logical world.
The real world has rules, so should fictional ones.
That said, readers don't need to know all the rules right away, you can show something that looks like an "exception", only to reveal later how it really works, though this must be done carefully, also it must be made clear that people in-universe don't know all the rules.
Must think everything through beforehand, of course. Otherwise it will be an asspull or retcon or some other crap.

Also... What's "Vivec" (the city, i presume, which doesn't have a thane by the way) doing there? Fan fiction day dream? Oh, carry on.

I know it's a way to get out of situations as well, but I just feel more comfortable knowing my limitations. I've actually put limitations on magic in any of my fantastic novels and it's working out for the better.

I'm always using a "take some, give much" approach to magic.

(Vivec - don't judge me!)

If you don't like Steampunk, how come you're even thinking about it?
Perhaps you should try to use Steampunk elements, if they would fit. Just insist to everyone that the book's genre is not Steampunk, which it won't be just by including a few elements similar to Steampunk.

Because of the time period. If I decide to add magic to technology, I don't want to be shoe-horned into that genre.

Unless it helps sales!
In one book... What about a series with the same world but each book dealing with kind of different themes?
One book set in the world's "Wild West", another book set into... well, whatever you're thinking of. You could have the same world, worldbuilding, but without mixing things too much at once.
That could feel like a hodgepodge series though. Well, someone's sure to like it.

That's kind of the plan. Each novel do another horror convention.

Besides, fantasy works have this silly tendency of not having cultural and technological variations.
You know, like some "Medieval European fantasy" having Europeans all over the world but no Asian or African cultures.
Ninjas and cowboys can co-exist, they probably won't mix though. OTOH, that would make a good story... a ninja who ends up in "Wild West"...

Kind of doing that already in a completely different novel. I created a "second Earth" around the turn of the 20th century, but set in a fantasy world with different countries. So you can have little orphans in gas lit, foggy towns meeting up with gunslingers and samurai.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Hex-slinger: Exists already? Eh... Well, whatever. Nearly all words for mages are used already. *makes a note it exists already "meh"*
Just one thing... Hex means a curse, no? Not just a spell, but curses specifically.

I know it's a way to get out of situations as well, but I just feel more comfortable knowing my limitations. I've actually put limitations on magic in any of my fantastic novels and it's working out for the better.

I'm always using a "take some, give much" approach to magic.

(Vivec - don't judge me!)

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/article/40/Sandersons-First-Law
http://www.brandonsanderson.com/article/100/Sandersons-Second-Law
You might find those interesting.

Cool pic.
 
Not a physicist but i'm going to tell you that you're going to run all sorts of problems with all FTL-ideas.

Surely you're read Atomic Rocket, since you seem to be making scifi?

There is a section dedicated to FTL. Read it. Also read the Respecting Science section. EDIT also Preliminary Notes, and Common Misconceptions. One purpose of the site is be a resource for writers

EDIT also willing to give feedback on ideas, especially anything related to FTL. Always wondering about that myself (have a bunch of note files relating to it).

Yeah, I've read some of the Atomic Rocket stuff, and got a pretty good understanding in general of what can and cannot be done in a semi-hard sci-fi space opera.
My FTL-variant is a bit problematic though as it works differently from the stereotypical version (cross-post from one of the short-novel threads):

Who to cast hmmm...

Looking for some feedback on the implication of a particular form of FTL-travel I'm trying to create for the purpose of some sci-fi stories. So if you guys can try to "break" the mechanics I've set up, that'd be much appreciated:

Without going into the techno jargon, it involves manipulating spacetime in such a way to create an inverse space-time field "bubble", where the contents of the time field experience the time it takes for the "bubble" to move through space, but the bubble itself moves through space with no time taking place - and vice versa (the contents of the bubble can move through time instantaneously, albeit only "forward", while the bubble itself moves through space at the time it jumps forward within.)

Example:

Bubble-encapsulated spaceship travels from solar system A to solar system B, a distance of 120 LY, instantaneously. That is, if the clocks on A and B are synchronized, then the moment it disappears from A, it will appear on B. The spaceship on the other hand, and its passengers, have to experience the flow of time instead, as if they were traveling from A to B at lightspeed, and thus a hundred-twenty years pass within the bubble. So without designing the ship as multi-generational ark, or have it contain cryogenic freezing facilities that can stop the aging of the passengers, it may arrive at B in no time - but everyone aboard will be dead. The ship itself ages as well, so if it's not structurally stable enough to survive 120 years of general material decay, or lack self-repairing facilities, the FTL-engine (or any other components) might very well fail from age and cause catastrophic failure.

The second use of the technology, to move the bubble through space at the time it would ordinarily take if at the speed of light but with no time passing for the contents of the bubble, could in effect make it work like a time machine of sort. By traveling from A to B, and then back again, you would travel forward in time 240 years, per the clocks of planet A - with no time having passed for the ship or the inhabitants of it.

Requirements and details:

Requires an exotic matter generator which can generate a newly discovered form of negative particles that allows reaching light speed with minimal energy expenditure compared to other methods (which require near-infinite amounts of energy). The exotic matter generator on the otherhand has massive energy requirements, a magnitude or so greater than that of the large hadron collider (which has been used to create exotic baryons). This is achieved through a newly discovered phenomena similar to tachyon condensation.

The inverse spacetime field shares some similarities with artificial pocket universes, but are connected to the current universe through an entanglement of the hidden, curled up dimensions of the space time continuum rather than a wormhole. There's no way of entering or leaving the spacetime field as such while it exists (the ship can't break free of the bubble once it has created, it has to reverse the creation process of the bubble in order to reintegrate the spacetime field into normal spacetime). It only exists in the two forms outlined above, summarized below:

Existing modes of travel:
1. "Hyperspeed"
Outside: Instantaneous
Inside: Light years traveled equals years passed

2. "Fast-forward travel"
Outside: Light speed
Inside: Instantaneous

...

Can you think of any way of breaking the above FTL-travel I've devised?
Already touched upon the hyperspeed variant in my last story, and got a couple of more ideas.

I think I got a semi-solid explanation in place, and as the principal controllers of the technology are AIs I can apply some handwavium on any unintentional effects that reader might figure out from the rules in place such as, someone suggested in the other thread, nestling fields within one another. I do so by borrowing a page from Banks there and taking it further, never attempting to show the PoV of the AIs so that I can leave the exact ramifications of the technology as a mystery (Why don't the AIs use technology to do X? Who knows, they are too intelligent & enigmatic for baselines to figure out).

But at the moment, it's still just a bunch of nonsensical sci-fi jargon, so I wouldn't mind a technical explanation that's reasonably anchored in theoretical or hypothetical physics that result in the same effects (Travel from A to B instantaneously from an outside POV, but take ages from an inside POV).

A bit worried about AIs turning into Deus Ex Machinas, by going "Because AI", but one of themes I'm interested in is that of "What would humans think if they knew they were eclipsed by beings that are significantly more intelligent and creative than them?"
No conflict in the story will ever revolve around humans vs "big bad AI", but rather "humans vs humans" (or baselines, those beings that are equivalent to the human baseline) and "humans directed by AI vs humans directed by AI", as pitting a self-evolving artificial intelligence against what in comparison looks like an evolutionary dead-end is not a fair fight.

Got plenty of explanations for why humans are still around, and each one of those explanations can provide all sorts of explorations of human nature (they are all true, as there are different AIs who - from a baseline POV - behave differently. Or maybe it's one AI pretending to be multiple ones. Who knows? 'Tis a mystery).
 

Woorloog

Banned
Yeah, I've read some of the Atomic Rocket stuff, and got a pretty good understanding in general of what can and cannot be done in a semi-hard sci-fi space opera.
My FTL-variant is a bit problematic though as it works differently from the stereotypical version (cross-post from one of the short-novel threads):

The second type of FTL is not actually FTL, but teleportation. Sort of.
At least, it is no different from deconstructing something, and transmitting the data to another place and reconstituting the target there.
It has no issues whatsoever. Probably. FTL speed is problematic, not sure about traveling exactly at the speed of light. If that might have issues, reducing the speed to 99.999...% of lightspeed sure gets rid of that issue, though now the instanteneous acceleration is more problematic...

The first form of FTL still has all the issues associated with FTL. Information is transmitted instantly (from outside POV, which is what matters, all people must be able to agree on the order of events or there will be issues), even if it ages during transport. Indeed, it is not really different from any standard FTL, even if it looks like that.
Not that the causality issues ever prevent people from using FTL.

I think I got a semi-solid explanation in place, and as the principal controllers of the technology are AIs I can apply some handwavium on any unintentional effects that reader might figure out from the rules in place such as, someone suggested in the other thread, nestling fields within one another. I do so by borrowing a page from Banks there and taking it further, never attempting to show the PoV of the AIs so that I can leave the exact ramifications of the technology as a mystery (Why don't the AIs use technology to do X? Who knows, they are too intelligent & enigmatic for baselines to figure out).

Not sure that works. It is a handwave, possibly hidden by smoke and mirrors but that doesn't change the fact. As we know, however, an average reader has no problem with FTL, handwaved or not. Not that all handwaves are bad, they just can lead to fridge logic.
So, the question is, how much does it bother you, and how much does it bother you that some people will be bothered by this handwaving?

Also, there's another issue: If AIs won't do something that is implied to be possible (or what the readers figure should be possible), what prevents other people from doing that?
Unless you bind AIs to the FTL devices themselves (or are the only ones who can operate them), which means both are kind of magic.
Well, FTL is magic already, no matter how it is done.

Of course, you could handwave some sort chronology protection agency, perhaps the AI/FTL devices could be that. Would avoid causality issues but would lead to others... Requiring some sort cosmic system to keep the universe's chronology straight has its issues.

(Personally, I'm inclined toward using non-FTL instantenous-from-the-traveller's-POV travel, ie lightspeed-limited teleportation, something like your second-type FTL, or wormholes, with working chronology protection conjecture to prevent time travel (ie if the holes are not synced, you can't travel backwards in time, the wormhole collapses if the sync is lost or something like that. The good thing in this is that this concept has some basis in reality, though only on conceptual level, but i think that's better than nothing).
This way i'll probably avoid most problems reasonably. Of course, these wouldn't necessarily be good for a space opera, at least not for one with spaceships (wormholes arguably negate need for spaceships, as do most teleporters, depending on how they work). Of course, one can always tweak the rules for these until spaceships are required or practical.
Wormholes still have some big issues, like enabling simple relativistic bombs...)

A bit worried about AIs turning into Deus Ex Machinas, by going "Because AI", but one of themes I'm interested in is that of "What would humans think if they knew they were eclipsed by beings that are significantly more intelligent and creative than them?"
No conflict in the story will ever revolve around humans vs "big bad AI", but rather "humans vs humans" (or baselines, those beings that are equivalent to the human baseline) and "humans directed by AI vs humans directed by AI", as pitting a self-evolving artificial intelligence against what in comparison looks like an evolutionary dead-end is not a fair fight.

Got plenty of explanations for why humans are still around, and each one of those explanations can provide all sorts of explorations of human nature (they are all true, as there are different AIs who - from a baseline POV - behave differently. Or maybe it's one AI pretending to be multiple ones. Who knows? 'Tis a mystery).

AIs won't be Deus Ex Machina, unless you use them like that.
Rather, they're just gods on the backround (ie, Deus Est Machina, pardon the pun), based on how you describe them (so, humans vs humans ain't any different from different religions or political ideologies fighting each other). Which makes wonder, what's the point?

If they're actively doing things, then you need clear rules for them, and the readers must understand those, or they will feel like deus ex machinas or asspulls.

I'm not too keen on Singularity AIs, because they either end up being gods (perhaps physical ones), or something that is informed to be highly intelligent but without actually being that. Informed abilities or attributes are no good. Show, don't tell.

I linked two Brandon Sanderson's essays for bengraven above, the first one is definetly something that you should read as well, for the principle applies here as well.
"Sanderson's First Law of Magics: An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic."
Substitute AI for magic, and something for "solve conflict" and the law doesn't change at all in spirit.
Read the second one while at it as well, it is also very interesting, dealing with limitations of powers.

I think Peter F. Hamilton made great use of super-intelligent AI in his Commonwealth Saga. The AI was a bit mysterious (its capabilities, intelligence were left mostly to mystery) but also disconnected from human affairs mostly, so it didn't interfere with the story while making an interesting backround element. (And arguably one that could be cut, with some modification to some characters).
 

Woorloog

Banned
Thanks, appreciate the feedback, always nice to bounce these ideas of someone.

Tell me right away if you don't understand something i mean, or if i'm contradicting myself.
Have caught myself doing that at times, especially if writing something longer, like this.

Happy to help.

And i know i had another general question about writing for ya'll but i've forgotten it...
 

Woorloog

Banned
What does everyone here think of monomyth, the hero's journey?
You know, the classic: farmboy goes on a quest to destroy big bad or some such.
Arguably the most common thing in scifi and fantasy, to the point of being overused even.
And even when it is not used, many works seem to have shades of it.

Any thoughts about whether writing one is good, bad?
 

Nezumi

Member
What does everyone here think of monomyth, the hero's journey?
You know, the classic: farmboy goes on a quest to destroy big bad or some such.
Arguably the most common thing in scifi and fantasy, to the point of being overused even.
And even when it is not used, many works seem to have shades of it.

Any thoughts about whether writing one is good, bad?

I wouldn't consider it bad. Sure it has been used a lot but then again it is a rather basic structure of story telling. If you can think about something interesting and new to do with it, I don't see why one shouldn't use it.
 
Tropes aren't inherently good or bad. If you can write a monomyth that's entertaining enough, people won't care how common it is. If you combined it with other elements, I'm sure it could come out damn meaningful too, considering how archetypal the themes are.

I personally think tropes are awesome starting points to use on occasion because they can help get around writiers' block.
 
What does everyone here think of monomyth, the hero's journey?
You know, the classic: farmboy goes on a quest to destroy big bad or some such.
Arguably the most common thing in scifi and fantasy, to the point of being overused even.
And even when it is not used, many works seem to have shades of it.

Any thoughts about whether writing one is good, bad?

It's a good basic structure, so if you're at a loss as to what should happen, I imagine it can be useful.
 

Nezumi

Member
I think there was a writing excuses episode that dealt with this.
Something about, blending the familiar with the special(?).
 

Woorloog

Banned
I know tropes are not bad in themselves, but over-exposure kills them. There are tropes that are no longer used almost at all.

I have some ideas: Concentrate on the hero's companions, their lives (before meeting the hero, and after), how being a companion to the hero affects them, how others see the companions. There's a lot potential there, i think.
And the monomyth gives an easy* base to work on, i think.

*Well, easy and easy. Making it feel fresh won't be easy regardless, but the story structure is relatively easy.
 

Aaron

Member
I lack courage, but I've finally finished my book. Around three hundred pages that I've spent too long writing and editing, badgering people to read, and editing again based on comments. Current title is Spies of Soltis: The Gutted Clerk, and I could use a little help. I'm going to self-publish, since finding a publisher seems like an unlikely and excruciating process for someone with no writing credits, but before that I could use two things:

1- A few more readers to get overall impressions. I looked at the webpages suggested in the first post, and just felt lost. I made major changes since my last batch of readers, and I don't want to pester them again.

2- An artist to do the cover. I have no problem paying a commission, but finding the right artist on deviantart is like finding a needle dropped in a haystack factory. The cover I have in mind is a B&W painted noir look. I'll have a more detailed description when I find the right artist.

Any help on these two items would be extremely appreciated. Here's a blurb I've worked out that summarizes this noir fantasy:

Marlin Hothen only wanted to keep his head down, and avoid the war threatening to devour his home country of Hamorn. When a stranger in black breaks into the office of the esteemed Mister Harris, he decides that catching this spy is his ticket to staying off the draft lists for good. Instead, the former sailor stumbles through the slush-filled streets of Ravom, and straight into a world of secret plans, sharp knives, immortality, and murder.

In Hamorn, the wealthy are served steaming cocktails by nonhuman waiters, while colossal beasts are carved up for their amusement. Their civilized age runs on a wonder fuel called pith, but the pollution leaves the poor with grey scars and rotten limbs. While these dregs work night and day to crank out fresh war machines, anyone with two good hands is conscripted into the army. Even if four years of artillery shells and sacrifice still haven't broken the blockade of the Ashbane Collective.

With dubious allies and a knack for making enemies, Marlin can't keep safe by keeping his head down anymore. If he doesn't want to get shipped to the front, he needs to collar the elusive spy Neve August, and guard his own neck in the process. It won't be easy when his boss might be the biggest traitor of them all.

First book of the Spies of Soltis trilogy.
 

Nezumi

Member
I know tropes are not bad in themselves, but over-exposure kills them. There are tropes that are no longer used almost at all.

I have some ideas: Concentrate on the hero's companions, their lives (before meeting the hero, and after), how being a companion to the hero affects them, how others see the companions. There's a lot potential there, i think.
And the monomyth gives an easy* base to work on, i think.

*Well, easy and easy. Making it feel fresh won't be easy regardless, but the story structure is relatively easy.

Stop thinking, start writing!
All these thoughts about "Has it been done before? Might this theme be overused?", all they do is keep you from progressing with YOUR story.
You want to write about a famboy finding a magic sword in the attic and going on a quest to slay lots of monsters? Just start and see where it goes from there.

Edit:
I lack courage, but I've finally finished my book. Around three hundred pages that I've spent too long writing and editing, badgering people to read, and editing again based on comments. Current title is Spies of Soltis: The Gutted Clerk, and I could use a little help. I'm going to self-publish, since finding a publisher seems like an unlikely and excruciating process for someone with no writing credits, but before that I could use two things:

1- A few more readers to get overall impressions. I looked at the webpages suggested in the first post, and just felt lost. I made major changes since my last batch of readers, and I don't want to pester them again.

Don't know if I'll be a great help but I wouldn't mind reading it and give you some impressions.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Stop thinking, start writing!
All these thoughts about "Has it been done before? Might this theme be overused?", all they do is keep you from progressing with YOUR story.
You want to write about a famboy finding a magic sword in the attic and going on a quest to slay lots of monsters? Just start and see where it goes from there.

I'm not sure it is a story i want to write, i just have vague ideas. Need something more still...
Also, i'm more of a scifi-person, currently wondering how to fit the monomyth concept to scifi (that is not exactly space opera, unless "hard space opera" exists now).

And seriously, something being overused does bother me. Me. I can't write something i really don't want to, can i?
I need to make a decision. Never been fast decision maker, consider all sorts of things first.

Also, practical issue, can't do that now, other stuff to do. Like getting rid of headache.
EDIT seriously, i don't have the peace i need for writing. At least, not for starting.
 

Nezumi

Member
I'm not sure it is a story i want to write, i just have vague ideas. Need something more still...
Also, i'm more of a scifi-person, currently wondering how to fit the monomyth concept to scifi (that is not exactly space opera, unless "hard space opera" exists now).

And seriously, something being overused does bother me. Me. I can't write something i really don't want to, can i?
I need to make a decision. Never been fast decision maker, consider all sorts of things first.

Also, practical issue, can't do that now, other stuff to do. Like getting rid of headache.

Of course you shouldn't write something that you don't like at all. Still I get the feeling that you are overthinking it and that keeps you from writing.
I'm not much of a Sci-Fi person but I wouldn't see why a hero's journey wouldn't work in that genre, with all those planets to explore :)
I guess what I mainly wanted to say before is that if you already have some parts of your story, maybe even your main character, you should just start and see where it gets you. You'll be surprised how many ideas you'll get once you just start rolling.

Edit: Oh and I recommend iboprofen against your headache :)
 

Woorloog

Banned
Of course you shouldn't write something that you don't like at all. Still I get the feeling that you are overthinking it and that keeps you from writing.
I'm not much of a Sci-Fi person but I wouldn't see why a hero's journey wouldn't work in that genre, with all those planets to explore :)
I guess what I mainly wanted to say before is that if you already have some parts of your story, maybe even your main character, you should just start and see where it gets you. You'll be surprised how many ideas you'll get once you just start rolling.

Edit: Oh and I recommend iboprofen against your headache :)

I like hard-scifi. No FTL, realistic tech. Makes things difficult, very strict limits. Makes very hard to fit monomyth to scifi i like. Of course, it is a mighty challenge, one that is very appealing to me. EDIT actually, not strictly hard-scifi. I was thinking of having psionic powers... ones that are very limited...

I don't really have any parts ready though, only some worldbuilding (very little directly, just general ideas really), some vague ideas for characters but those are where i'm not good (learned that from making RPG campaigns).
EDIT and yes, i know i may get ideas while working, perhaps much more once/if i work.

And yes, i'll get some painkiller, was hoping i wouldn't need one...
 
I lack courage, but I've finally finished my book. Around three hundred pages that I've spent too long writing and editing, badgering people to read, and editing again based on comments. Current title is Spies of Soltis: The Gutted Clerk, and I could use a little help. I'm going to self-publish, since finding a publisher seems like an unlikely and excruciating process for someone with no writing credits, but before that I could use two things:

1- A few more readers to get overall impressions. I looked at the webpages suggested in the first post, and just felt lost. I made major changes since my last batch of readers, and I don't want to pester them again.

2- An artist to do the cover. I have no problem paying a commission, but finding the right artist on deviantart is like finding a needle dropped in a haystack factory. The cover I have in mind is a B&W painted noir look. I'll have a more detailed description when I find the right artist.

Any help on these two items would be extremely appreciated. Here's a blurb I've worked out that summarizes this noir fantasy:

If you want reader feedback, you could always go to GoodReads. Create an account and search the groups. There are a few dedicated to Beta Readers, people who will happily give you the feedback you crave. Simply post in the appropriate forum, and hope your book interests one of the members.

DeviantArt is a great place, but, like you said, it can be a bit overwhelming. That's why you'll need to make the artists come to you. Create an account, head to the forums and post in the job offers section. Post a message detailing your book, and providing a general idea of what you're looking for. Make sure you are clear on what you're willing to pay. I did this, and was extremely pleased with the results. I got a ton of responses, and wound up with an artist I intend to keep using for all my books.

Hope this helps, and good luck.
 

Nezumi

Member
I like hard-scifi. No FTL, realistic tech. Makes things difficult, very strict limits. Makes very hard to fit monomyth to scifi i like. Of course, it is a mighty challenge, one that is very appealing to me. EDIT actually, not strictly hard-scifi. I was thinking of having psionic powers... ones that are very limited...

I don't really have any parts ready though, only some worldbuilding (very little directly, just general ideas really), some vague ideas for characters but those are where i'm not good (learned that from making RPG campaigns).
EDIT and yes, i know i may get ideas while working, perhaps much more once/if i work.

And yes, i'll get some painkiller, was hoping i wouldn't need one...

OK, since I'm not very familiar with that genre I might be wrong, but I would think that all that tech stuff is something that could be easily fixed AFTER you wrote your story. What I mean is that it doens't really matter that if your hero has to kill someone in your story if he does it with a sword, a somewhat plausible lasergun or a force punch. You could easily write said scene and add all that tech stuff later.
I'm currently writing on a script that if I ever finish it should mix cyberpunk and fairytail elements and the cyberpunk is giving me quite a hard time. I know I have to fix a lot of things regarding the technologie I'm using, but this is something I'll worry about once I finished the first draft. For now it is all about the story and the characters and what they do. Second draft is for things to actually make sense.
 

Woorloog

Banned
OK, since I'm not very familiar with that genre I might be wrong, but I would think that all that tech stuff is something that could be easily fixed AFTER you wrote your story. What I mean is that it doens't really matter that if your hero has to kill someone in your story if he does it with a sword, a somewhat plausible lasergun or a force punch. You could easily write said scene and add all that tech stuff later.

I guess.
...
Yeah... it doesn't really matter. And perhaps i want realistic, plausible feel to the story instead of having all the math etc. right. Surely i can be flexible?

Hmm. I will need to read about the monomyth a bit more, in detal, and some examples of it (this one won't be hard), cut those to pieces, see what they consist of.
Then to outline some things...

I have my own way of working, i think outline first, and start filling in details on those, cut it to bullet points, expand the bullet points to longer things (and were i writing, i guess chapters could be made from those).
At least that's how i work on RPG campaigns more or less, though with less writing, since i have relatively good memory (indeed, i can remember ideas from years ago).

Then, characters. What do i need, whose POVs. Perhaps i can simply take typical companions heroes have, play with those.

EDIT wikipedia has this:
500px-Heroesjourney.svg.png

EDIT hmm. What program do you use for writing?
I usually throw my notes to normal notepad files but writing will need something more perhaps, for spell-checking if nothing else.
 

Woorloog

Banned
One more thing: Unusual... "formats" (not sure what i should call these) intrigue me.
Instead of typical narrative, i'm thinking about telling the story via interviews, correspondence or journal.

Interview- type wouldn't be very long i reckon, even with multiple interviewees (is that the word?). Could make all right short story. Dialogue-heavy. If nothing else, will be interesting practice.

Correspondence... Difficult, i think. Not sure if it will work for a fantasy or scifi story but interesting nonetheless.

And journal is same as above really.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
I get sporadic periods of inactivity at my current place of employment so I would be more than happy to read and provide feedback for anyone that wants it on their writings.
 

Nezumi

Member
EDIT hmm. What program do you use for writing?
I usually throw my notes to normal notepad files but writing will need something more perhaps, for spell-checking if nothing else.

I use Scrivener which I like very much and once you get used to it is really handy when it comes for outlining and taking notes and stuff. It also has a spell-checking, though you must download other languages than English seperatly.
You can download a demoversion here. If you are interested in getting the program you can tell me because I think we still have a 50% off code left from last NaNoWriMo...expired last month...
 

Woorloog

Banned
I use Scrivener which I like very much and once you get used to it is really handy when it comes for outlining and taking notes and stuff. It also has a spell-checking, though you must download other languages than English seperatly.
You can download a demoversion here. If you are interested in getting the program you can tell me because I think we still have a 50% off code left from last NaNoWriMo

Thanks. I'll bookmark that.

Don't need other than English, i really don't like writing in Finnish (i think Finnish lacks nuanced adjectives and i generally don't like how it sounds), and i'm good enough with English. And use English more (blame the Internet).

Not going to buy it soon though, kinda broke at the moment.

Perhaps i get Open Office or some such for the time being.
Or just plain old Notepad, and by paying attention to what i write.

EDIT expiring codes suck, don't they
 
I've been going through the thread trying to work out where I can get a cover made for my new novel (want to go a bit more upmarket this time compared to what I can produce).

Based on that, it looks like http://fiverr.com/ might be a good option, but DeviantART will produce better results. However I'm a bit scared of that.

Are these still the places to go? I've thrown some money at fiverr for the heck of it, will be interested to see what I get back.
 
One more thing: Unusual... "formats" (not sure what i should call these) intrigue me.
Instead of typical narrative, i'm thinking about telling the story via interviews, correspondence or journal.

Interview- type wouldn't be very long i reckon, even with multiple interviewees (is that the word?). Could make all right short story. Dialogue-heavy. If nothing else, will be interesting practice.

Correspondence... Difficult, i think. Not sure if it will work for a fantasy or scifi story but interesting nonetheless.

And journal is same as above really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistolary_novel

This is the term, if you want to search for examples of prior work.
 

Vagabundo

Member
Oh, thank you!
*starts reading the list*

Dracula. This to perfection.

I read that book in school when I was 8 with my friend and we loved it. We'd actually read it sitting beside each other both reading the same page. Kinda cool that the school just let everyone read a book as part of class.
 
I've been going through the thread trying to work out where I can get a cover made for my new novel (want to go a bit more upmarket this time compared to what I can produce).

Based on that, it looks like http://fiverr.com/ might be a good option, but DeviantART will produce better results. However I'm a bit scared of that.

Are these still the places to go? I've thrown some money at fiverr for the heck of it, will be interested to see what I get back.

I have the same issue. The novel is written. A writing group is critiquing and I'm incorporating their feedback. I feel like I'll be ready to self-publish via Amazon/et al by the end of the year. I just need a cover.

I can do stick figures myself. Not sure that's gonna cut it.
 

Woorloog

Banned
I have the same issue. The novel is written. A writing group is critiquing and I'm incorporating their feedback. I feel like I'll be ready to self-publish via Amazon/et al by the end of the year. I just need a cover.

I can do stick figures myself. Not sure that's gonna cut it.

As the OP suggests, look through DeviantArt, look for artists whose styles you like and who're open for comissions and ask for prices etc.

5. Now, if you're up to this point - the manuscript is done. Congratulations, you've passed a milestone that many writers never achieve. So, now it's time to get your cover ready. This is one of the most important parts of the book. If your cover looks like shit, everyone will assume your book is shit too. If you have the skills to do a cover yourself you'll be able to save a lot of money; if not, then prepare to fork out some cash for a professional artist. My cover, for example, cost me $500.00. That may be a bit steep for some of you, though. There are artists that will do it for cheaper, but the quality and talent tends to vary greatly. I recommend going to sites like DeviantArt in order to find an artist that matches your style and budget.
 
I have the same issue. The novel is written. A writing group is critiquing and I'm incorporating their feedback. I feel like I'll be ready to self-publish via Amazon/et al by the end of the year. I just need a cover.

I can do stick figures myself. Not sure that's gonna cut it.

I'll let you know how I go. Cost is a prohibitive factor for myself, so will work from the ground up.
 
You might want to look into pre-made covers. While the art won't be tailored to your book, it's a viable option if you simply want a professional and attractive cover. This blog provides links to an assortment of different sites, some of which are ridiculously cheap. Hopefully you'll be able to find something suiting your tastes.
 
You might want to look into pre-made covers. While the art won't be tailored to your book, it's a viable option if you simply want a professional and attractive cover. This blog provides links to an assortment of different sites, some of which are ridiculously cheap. Hopefully you'll be able to find something suiting your tastes.

Awesome. I think I found one or two that could work for my book.

Thanks!
 

Alt183

Member
Perhaps i get Open Office or some such for the time being.
Or just plain old Notepad, and by paying attention to what i write.

EDIT expiring codes suck, don't they

From personal experience, I would highly recommend saving all your work to a cloud service. If you use Office or Notepad, get into the habit of saving it somewhere like Dropbox. My Macbook died just last month. One morning I had only 20 minutes before it shut off for good, needless to say little was saved. Luckily I work exclusively on Google Documents, so I went back to work like nothing happened. The peace of mind is too important.

Also a thumbs up to Scrivner from myself. Useful and affordable.
 
I know is a considered a lesser form or reading. But I want to write a Comic/Manga book and offer some limited prints. Mostly because I have a story in my head and want to get it out.

I'm good drawing but I'm not a writer and english is not my first language. I rather make it in English because it can be enjoy by many people. The biggest problems however is this.

World building, I want to make a living breathing world and had different stories with random characters playing through. Make different stories every month or so.

Time line, Since basically the world and it's inhabitans are the protagonist I would like to make a solid timely in which the events occur and such.

Problem is in not very smart in that regard, so I'll love to have some material that can help me.
 
I'm not sure it is a story i want to write, i just have vague ideas. Need something more still...
Also, i'm more of a scifi-person, currently wondering how to fit the monomyth concept to scifi (that is not exactly space opera, unless "hard space opera" exists now).

And seriously, something being overused does bother me. Me. I can't write something i really don't want to, can i?
I need to make a decision. Never been fast decision maker, consider all sorts of things first.

Also, practical issue, can't do that now, other stuff to do. Like getting rid of headache.
EDIT seriously, i don't have the peace i need for writing. At least, not for starting.

A "hard" sci-fi opera that I've come across is the so called Orion's Arm (Which is a sort of world building project with novels and short stories based on it).
One might argue that it isn't really "Hard" because it has nano tech and AI Gods, but it does not break FTL or incorporate any scientific concept that isn't at least theoretically possible.

Anyway, they got a couple of stories that fit the monomyth, and generally it goes down like this in a Sci-Fi universe (extremely simplified):

Call to adventure (mercenary, academic, tourist on a mission involving other equals)
Intervention (the unequal, e.g. the AI God, or an advanced alien species if you so wish, intervenes)
Threshold/Beginning of transformation (the adventurer's beliefs and worldview is challenged, ex: AIGods shape all individual's lives, Aliens were responsible for humanity, etc, etc)
Helper&Mentor (Either something unknown like an alien/or a lesser machine, or something familliar like a human that's experienced something similar)

... and so on, you get the idea.
It's not that hard to just stick in super hard sci-fi concepts if you don't like AI Gods (Instead of a God-level AI, a marginally more powerful one, or a secret government entitity).
 
A "hard" sci-fi opera that I've come across is the so called Orion's Arm (Which is a sort of world building project with novels and short stories based on it).
One might argue that it isn't really "Hard" because it has nano tech and AI Gods, but it does not break FTL or incorporate any scientific concept that isn't at least theoretically possible.

Anyway, they got a couple of stories that fit the monomyth, and generally it goes down like this in a Sci-Fi universe (extremely simplified):

Call to adventure (mercenary, academic, tourist on a mission involving other equals)
Intervention (the unequal, e.g. the AI God, or an advanced alien species if you so wish, intervenes)
Threshold/Beginning of transformation (the adventurer's beliefs and worldview is challenged, ex: AIGods shape all individual's lives, Aliens were responsible for humanity, etc, etc)
Helper&Mentor (Either something unknown like an alien/or a lesser machine, or something familliar like a human that's experienced something similar)

... and so on, you get the idea.
It's not that hard to just stick in super hard sci-fi concepts if you don't like AI Gods (Instead of a God-level AI, a marginally more powerful one, or a secret government entitity).

Thanks, Next time I get a little story in my head I'm writing it.
 
I know is a considered a lesser form or reading. But I want to write a Comic/Manga book and offer some limited prints. Mostly because I have a story in my head and want to get it out.

I'm good drawing but I'm not a writer and english is not my first language. I rather make it in English because it can be enjoy by many people. The biggest problems however is this.

World building, I want to make a living breathing world and had different stories with random characters playing through. Make different stories every month or so.

Time line, Since basically the world and it's inhabitans are the protagonist I would like to make a solid timely in which the events occur and such.

Problem is in not very smart in that regard, so I'll love to have some material that can help me.

What amount of time will pass during the timeline? Days? Weeks? Years? Many lifetimes?
 

Woorloog

Banned
A "hard" sci-fi opera that I've come across is the so called Orion's Arm (Which is a sort of world building project with novels and short stories based on it).
One might argue that it isn't really "Hard" because it has nano tech and AI Gods, but it does not break FTL or incorporate any scientific concept that isn't at least theoretically possible.

Anyway, they got a couple of stories that fit the monomyth, and generally it goes down like this in a Sci-Fi universe (extremely simplified):

Call to adventure (mercenary, academic, tourist on a mission involving other equals)
Intervention (the unequal, e.g. the AI God, or an advanced alien species if you so wish, intervenes)
Threshold/Beginning of transformation (the adventurer's beliefs and worldview is challenged, ex: AIGods shape all individual's lives, Aliens were responsible for humanity, etc, etc)
Helper&Mentor (Either something unknown like an alien/or a lesser machine, or something familliar like a human that's experienced something similar)

... and so on, you get the idea.
It's not that hard to just stick in super hard sci-fi concepts if you don't like AI Gods (Instead of a God-level AI, a marginally more powerful one, or a secret government entitity).
I'm aware of that site actually, though never browsed it much, was mostly interested in some things regarding futuristic energy weapons. For RPG.

As for the rest, i do have some idea how i can incorporate the monomyth to hard SF, those are interesting ideas though.

Characters are my concern at the moment, outlining some in my mind. Hope i get some privacy soon to write a bit about them. Starting is hard for me.
 
I suggest creating short stories for each one of your characters.

It won't really develop them into fully realized personalities, but it will give you a nice and simple guideline for when you actually write a longer piece as you can use the short story as a reference in terms of their back story and behaviour.
 

bengraven

Member
I suggest creating short stories for each one of your characters.

It won't really develop them into fully realized personalities, but it will give you a nice and simple guideline for when you actually write a longer piece as you can use the short story as a reference in terms of their back story and behaviour.

This is actually a really great idea that I fully endorse.

It's funny because my fantasy western is only halfway finished, but I could easily fill an entire book with the short backstories/novellas of all my characters. Maybe I should just do that! ha.
 
Another technique that I found useful in last year's NaNoWriMo is the Squiddy Blindfold Typing technique:

Disable your laptop screen or computer screen, and just write blindly with no regards for spelling mistakes or formatting. The goal is simply to increase your word count, and give you a substantial block of text that you can then work with.

It's useful if you're someone that keeps going back and changing bits and parts of your text, taking forever to write out a page.
 

Woorloog

Banned
A short story is what i have in my mind actually.

I noted that i'm interested in... atypical forms of storytelling earlier.
So, what i'm going to do, is to write an... interview... well, more like an interrogation, of some characters. Or is that interrogations? Whatever, you got the idea, i hope.
While at it, i'm trying to paint some sort picture of the world.
Essentially, everything will be told via dialogue.

EDIT goddamn quick-edit is seemingly borked for me here. I press save and it just hangs-up.. though the edits will have gone through if i re-open the page in another tab.
 

pulsemyne

Member
God my second book is now heading over the 200,000 word mark. Wonder if I can hit a 1/4 of a million? Wouldn't surprise me.
 
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