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Final Fantasy Tactics Appreciation Thread

E

ElyrionX

Member
I was thinking of this game last night and I realized just what a classic it is.

The job system was great. The classes were balanced and interesting. My favourite? Either the monk or the dancer. Never really did get to try the Calculator class though.

The NPCs were great. Sure, T.G Cid did throw the game balance off a bit. But who said you had to use him? Besides, how often is it in games like these that we get such an uber NPC? My only gripe here is that Ramza's natural class is Squire, which kind of sucked. Why couldn't he have got his own unique job just like all the other NPCs? After all, we see him literally grow up through the game. A progressive job class would have been nice.

There were many great and memorable battles in the game too. One that instantly comes to mind involves the underground library where you had to fight a knight and his cronies. The details are a bit sketchy to me but I remember that it was an awfully difficult battle (because of the small map and the overwhelming numbers against you) and winning it was really satisfying indeed.

The music was great too. I have the OST and it has to be one of the best around. The music really suited the pseudo-medieval and conspiracy theme of the game. Whatever happened to those two guys behind the OST?

IMO, the biggest problem with the game is the story. The translation could have used A LOT more work. Half the time, understanding the story is made all the more difficult due to the awful translation. Next, why didn't Ramza have a love interest? If only Alma (his sis) was replaced by someone else whom he has a romantic interest in. This would have made the story far more engaging.

It's such a disappointment that the followup on the GBA failed to live up to the standard set by the original.

First handheld that gets a port of the original FFT gets my money. C'mon Sony!
 
S

sasimirobot

Junior Member
A Nintendo DS version would be tight! (imagine rotating and zooming the camera with the touch screen)

Too bad Im scared of any new handheld version because of the GBA release. Crap.

Best game for PS1 hands down though.
 
F

firex

Member
no GA thread is complete without unnecessary trolling, so I'll just say that tactics ogre > FFT in every single way.
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
firex said:
no GA thread is complete without unnecessary trolling, so I'll just say that tactics ogre > FFT in every single way.
Click to expand...

You mean the one on the GBA? Knight of Lodis, or something? That was good too but it took too long to pick up and the pacing of the combat can be tedious at times. The job system was waaaay too murky (I had to consult a damn FAQ to find out how to access certain classes) as well. Anyway, it's a great game in its own right but nowhere near FFT.....
 
F

firex

Member
no, i mean the one that was on the SFC and PS1. better in every way than FFT - deeper gameplay, more difficult, better story (IMO, just because it came first and FFT reused a lot of similar plot points). only graphics are really better in FFT although they're definitely better.
 
A

Ar_

Member
ElyrionX said:
I was thinking of this game last night and I realized just what a classic it is.

The job system was great. The classes were balanced and interesting. My favourite? Either the monk or the dancer. Never really did get to try the Calculator class though.

...

My only gripe here is that Ramza's natural class is Squire, which kind of sucked.
Click to expand...

Great game, but balanced? Get even a signle Ninja with fully developed Math skill, and watch the AI beat the game for you!
IIRC Squire also had some really powerful skill, one increased your speed to the point Ramza would get multiple turns for every enemy one.

Still, the only console SRPG to ever grab me. Interesting skills, good music, looks.... maybe even story, if you play with a notepad to keep track of all the characters and backstabbing :p
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
Ar_ said:
Great game, but balanced? Get even a signle Ninja with fully developed Math skill, and watch the AI beat the game for you!
Click to expand...

Why's that?

BTW, is the Calculator class only restricted to Males? I think I'm going to go load up my old save file and complete some side quests I never did finish.
 
F

firex

Member
nah, calculator is available to anybody. it's arguably one of the hardest jobs to unlock (i forget what it takes, but tons of stuff), but that doesn't mean it isn't ridiculously overpowered. actually, a lot of abilities in FFT were just too exploitable, that's one reason why it's not my favorite SRPG.
 
L

lordmrw

Member
i remember back in 98, when my friends were addicted to this games. I wasn't into strategy rpgs then, so I didn't care, but i loved the soundtrack. About 2 years ago I decided to play it for myself, and I wound up getting hooked. For my money, I made Ramza a Monk, but gave him the ninjas two swords ability, so he could attack twice in one turn, and I decimated most enemies in one round.
 
D

Doom_Bringer

Banned
This game truly ownz. Probably the best SRPGS ever. The music was awesome, job system was awesome, nice graphics, likeable characters, kick ass story.

One of the best games on PSX. Can't wait for Final Fantasy XII.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
I like FFT, but I really despised FFTA. What a way to totally rape what made FFT so good.

FFTA Spoilers:
"I DONT WANNA GO BACK BECUZ THEN MY HAIR WILL BE WHITE!!11 NOOO."
 
F

firex

Member
I personally do not get what was so great about FFT's story. predictable "this religion that resembles catholicism is evil and so are all of its followers!" japanese RPG story, along with the entire 4th chapter of the game being ramza fucking stupidly blundering into repeatedly obvious traps, yet just brute forcing his way to the end of the game. the dialogue would have been better then if it was replaced with this:
Bad guy: "haha, ramza fell for my trap again!"
Ramza: *deploys Orlandu*
Bad guy: "dammit fuck dammit shit why did they have to put in this guy holy jesus" *all enemies die*

still, it was decent fun, but definitely not the best SRPG on the ps1, much less overall. and it's better than the TO and FFTA games on the GBA.
 
I

iapetus

Scary Euro Man
The words 'FFT' and 'balanced' should never appear in the same sentence. Unless it's something like 'FFT is not even remotely balanced'. Abusive classes, characters that make the game trivial as soon as they appear, and a difficulty curve that turns into a difficulty cliff for that battle (you know the one I mean, don't deny it...)

It was fun, but I've seen better balanced stacks of eggs.

stack_of_eggs.jpg
 
B

belgurdo

Banned
Amir0x said:
I like FFT, but I really despised FFTA. What a way to totally rape what made FFT so good.

FFTA Spoilers:
"I DONT WANNA GO BACK BECUZ THEN MY HAIR WILL BE WHITE!!11 NOOO."
Click to expand...

At least having characters with some motivation/reason to be /not be in your party is better than the way FFT handled it, where most of them got a couple of throwaway lines in story scenes and a bio page, then stayed silent after they joined up with you.

And FFTA is more balanced (sort of) than the original, but for some reason the laws kick people's asses. It's like they never take a look at their card decks or something.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
belgurdo said:
At least having characters with some motivation/reason to be /not be in your party is better than the way FFT handled it, where most of them got a couple of throwaway lines in story scenes and a bio page, then stayed silent after they joined up with you.

And FFTA is more balanced (sort of) than the original, but for some reason the laws kick people's asses. It's like they never take a look at their card decks or something.
Click to expand...

See, I would have rathered the characters shut the hell up instead of having such irrational reasons for what they were doing. Honestly, across the board, I've never heard such ridiculous backstory for characters.

You would want to
never see your family again
or
the world you came from
simply because
your hair is not the shade you want it to be?
What about the inane crap about
how you thought it was a good idea to stay at first because omg my brother in a wheel chair gets all the attention?
I mean, it was just awful. I don't care that they're kids, it made no sense and was just painful to sit through. On top of that,
if we're to believe that this world Ivalice in the Final Fantasy storybook actually exists on some plane of existence, why the heck would some of these characters in Ivalice help you?
The motivations are not only weak, they're just plain out forced half the time.

As for the balance issue, I think FFT and FFTA has some severe issues. In FFTA, you only ever needed like three classes to move forward. Every other class was pointless, or provided moves that are so unnecessary that they defied logic. Not only that, but every single enemy that attacked your territory provided no challenge whatsoever, and simply made progression in the game tedious. At least FFT had a bit more classes that were useful, if you didn't have a souped up Calculator or if you didn't use Orlando (whatever his name was) or the Holy Knights.

But that's just my feeling.

It's also worth noting that I loved the law system at first and thought it was an awesome way to approach SRPGs. Only problem was, the game eventually defeated itself in that area as well and made the game even more horribly unbalanced because of it.
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
firex said:
I personally do not get what was so great about FFT's story. predictable "this religion that resembles catholicism is evil and so are all of its followers!" japanese RPG story, along with the entire 4th chapter of the game being ramza fucking stupidly blundering into repeatedly obvious traps, yet just brute forcing his way to the end of the game. the dialogue would have been better then if it was replaced with this:
Bad guy: "haha, ramza fell for my trap again!"
Ramza: *deploys Orlandu*
Bad guy: "dammit fuck dammit shit why did they have to put in this guy holy jesus" *all enemies die*
Click to expand...

:lol

Anyway, the story was great because of the various backstabbing and the intricacies of Ramza's family. Delita adds a whole new dimension to the story as well.

belgurdo said:
And FFTA is more balanced (sort of) than the original, but for some reason the laws kick people's asses. It's like they never take a look at their card decks or something.
Click to expand...

More balanced =/= More fun

Sure the classes may appear to be more balanced. You know why? Because all of the goddamn classes did essentially the same shit. When it comes down to it, there's only like 3 basic classes in the game and PLENTY of variations upon that. Now, look at FFT. Each and every single class is unique in its own right and ultimately FUN to play. FFTA classes sounded good on paper but were ultimately boring.

And WTF is up with the item/skill learning system? Talk about a flawed system. It was stupid, contrived and completely screwed up the game.
 
S

Son of Godzilla

Banned
I loved FFT. The story wasn't that great, but Delita and T.G. Cid were great. Obviously would have been alot alot better if Cid remained a NPC. Also the game is incredibly hard and fun, and making a straight play through (No leveling) is one of the hardest things I've ever attempted to do (Made it to Execution Site Darland I think and got totally destroyed).
 
A

Ar_

Member
ElyrionX said:
Why's that?
Click to expand...

Because Math is really that overpowerwed.
Being able to give the skill to a class with high speed and so taking a lot of turns like Ninjas (Calcs are slow as snails, which still doesn't balance them), adds insult to the injury.

There is a great factor of luck in determining how hard each battle will be, if you play without a stategy guide, because having unlocked the right classes and bought the right skills will make a world of difference.
Caused me a world of pain on the battle when Ramza, which I had developed as a healer, was forced in a one vs one confrontation.
The battle with... was it Taurus? Well, the insanely powerful boss, right after saving in an area that prevents you from going back to the main map to farm more exp, had me restarting the game after a few days of hopeless attempts.
Then I checked some faq, got 2 chars with the math skill, put AI on and watched them complete the game for me.
 
P

Pellham

Banned
It was a fun game, although it was certainly ridiculous to abuse. I had level 99 characters by the end of chapter 3 and was blowing through the game. Wiergraf, the supposed hardest battle in the game, took 2 hits before he died.

However, I don't care if it's that unbalanced, it was still fun to build my army up, and if it's fun, why not, right? If they didn't want you leveling up in FFT and wanted you to challenge yourself, they would have taken out random battles, but whatever (also didn't help that there weren't any incentives to beating the game in fewest turns/time possible).
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
Ar_ said:
Because Math is really that overpowerwed.
Being able to give the skill to a class with high speed and so taking a lot of turns like Ninjas (Calcs are slow as snails, which still doesn't balance them), adds insult to the injury.

There is a great factor of luck in determining how hard each battle will be, if you play without a stategy guide, because having unlocked the right classes and bought the right skills will make a world of difference.
Caused me a world of pain on the battle when Ramza, which I had developed as a healer, was forced in a one vs one confrontation.
The battle with... was it Taurus? Well, the insanely powerful boss, right after saving in an area that prevents you from going back to the main map to farm more exp, had me restarting the game after a few days of hopeless attempts.
Then I checked some faq, got 2 chars with the math skill, put AI on and watched them complete the game for me.
Click to expand...

:lol

That would teach you to NEVER develop your main character as a goddamn healer.

Anyway, I can see how you screwed yourself there. There were a lot of hardass battles in the game from which you cannot escape to the world map to gain more levels to better deal with them. I can totally see how monumentally screwed one can get in such situations.
 
A

Ar_

Member
Thought I would try something different.
You know, attack classes are usually interchangeable while healers tend to be a must have, make the hero a healer and don't worry about it anymore..... and get owned one vs one!
 
F

firex

Member
ElyrionX said:
:lol

Anyway, the story was great because of the various backstabbing and the intricacies of Ramza's family. Delita adds a whole new dimension to the story as well.
Click to expand...

to be honest, I forgot a lot of the previous 3 chapters of the game. I played for awhile, got up to the end of chapter 3, and then I just got bored in the game... then months later I picked it up and beat it again and chapter 4 really did piss me off storywise. I didn't like the ending either... just seemed like it didn't tie up anything, and didn't make much sense. I don't remember it verbatim, but I remember some of it was like "nobody knows what Ramza did. but he's the greatest hero people have ever known." or something bizarre like that.

the Delita bit after the ending didn't shock me, really, because sadly, that was a reused scenario from TO...
 
S

Son of Godzilla

Banned
That battle was so fun. I had to do it more than a dozen times my first run through, each time getting closer and closer. And then when I finally got it down, I had to come up with a way to win the fight after it without getting raped too. Had to optimize Ramza so he had the most HP possible... I think I ended up having him as a Geomancer just so he had the most HP/MP and Mana Shield giving him something like 1000 effective HP. Still got my ass kicked pretty bad.

And honestly, no one is forcing you to use Calc. Samaurai Monks for the win.
 
D

DarthWoo

I'm glad Grandpa porked a Chinese Muslim
I have a question about the ending of that game, for a drawing I might one day do.
Did Ovelia first try to stab Delita before he stabbed her? I had always thought they were standing together talking, then Ovelia takes a knife out of a basket, lunges at him, but he grabs the knife and reverses the attack, killing her. However, there seems to actually be some debate online over what actually happened...
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
firex said:
to be honest, I forgot a lot of the previous 3 chapters of the game. I played for awhile, got up to the end of chapter 3, and then I just got bored in the game... then months later I picked it up and beat it again and chapter 4 really did piss me off storywise. I didn't like the ending either... just seemed like it didn't tie up anything, and didn't make much sense. I don't remember it verbatim, but I remember some of it was like "nobody knows what Ramza did. but he's the greatest hero people have ever known." or something bizarre like that.
Click to expand...

Actually, the story of FFT is supposed to be some kind of urban legend that turns out to be true. Apparently, whatever happened in FFT was pretty low-profile in the game world and the average citizen in the game world had no idea that Ramza practically single-handedly saved their asses.

Yeah, I thought the ending was kinda disappointing. Too many loose ends. What happened to the NPCs?
 
F

firex

Member
well, that makes more sense. honestly, I was hoping for more involvement with some of the NPCs that didn't seem to surface until chapter 4, though, like... I hope I'm spelling his name right, Olan? the astronomer guy.

I also admittedly didn't do much (if any) of the bonus/sidequest stuff you can do in chapter 4. Just wanted to finish up the story, and didn't really know how to unlock most sidequests anyway.
 
G

GermanOfficer

Member
FFT was a great S-RPG gaming experience.
SRPGS are still my favorite genre so I played quite a lot (besides the Japan-only games, I wanna know whats going on when I play a game).
I still hope for a new FFT which will be different from FFTA (IMO this game is mediocre at best) and maybe they even tie up some loose ends from the ending of FFT.

I liked all the politcal scheming stuff in FFT.
 
P

Piecake

Member
I thought the story for FFT was great. I mostly thought it was great due to all the political backstabbing, and Delita, but i thought the religious aspects of the story were great too.

It seemed to me that FFT setting was a sort of re-creation of Medieval Europe, and their is no denying that the Catholic Church durning that time was a curropt power hungry organization. Also, the aspects that dealt with overtly religious themes like Jesus, Judas etc were fine because i thought that the message, that history is determined by the victor, was pretty interesting. The creator just seemed to use an extreme example to prove his point.
 
F

firex

Member
The thing is that FFT's story strikes me as pretty similar to Tactics Ogre's. I like TO's more because it's part of a larger world and doesn't have the annoying "christianity = evil" tones but still manages to give a great sense of history being written by the victor.
 
M

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
TO LUCT > TO KoL > FFTA > FFT

That said, I still liked FFT quite a bit. I just found it to be too much of a rehash of TO LUCT, and much less balanced. Nice graphics for its time, however.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Mejilan said:
TO LUCT > TO KoL > FFTA > FFT

That said, I still liked FFT quite a bit. I just found it to be too much of a rehash of TO LUCT, and much less balanced. Nice graphics for its time, however.
Click to expand...


Ogre Battle 64 > Ogre Battle > FFT > TO KoL > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FFTA
 
M

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Oh, were we supposed to include the Ogre Battle games too? That mixes things up quite a bit, after all.
 
B

belgurdo

Banned
ElyrionX said:
Actually, the story of FFT is supposed to be some kind of urban legend that turns out to be true. Apparently, whatever happened in FFT was pretty low-profile in the game world and the average citizen in the game world had no idea that Ramza practically single-handedly saved their asses.

Yeah, I thought the ending was kinda disappointing. Too many loose ends. What happened to the NPCs?
Click to expand...

And another underlying reason as for why the story is told is so that Azalam (sp) can clear his ancestor's (
Orlan
) name, as he was executed by the church for writing about Ramza.

Took me ages to figure this out, and the horrid babelfish translation the game was saddled with didn't help
 
C

Crazymoogle

Member
DarthWoo said:
I have a question about the ending of that game, for a drawing I might one day do.
Did Ovelia first try to stab Delita before he stabbed her? I had always thought they were standing together talking, then Ovelia takes a knife out of a basket, lunges at him, but he grabs the knife and reverses the attack, killing her. However, there seems to actually be some debate online over what actually happened...
Click to expand...

General consensus including sprite evidence:
Ovelia stabs Delita with the knife (surprising Delita, but not causing him to lose his wits), and then Delita stabs back. The way Delita drops after the counterattack is much more suggestive that the injury is effecting him, since he a)seemed to love Ovelia more in a career way, and b)would be far more likely to reconsider his position (as his last words go) if he was about to pass out or bleed out. If it was just about Ovelia, he would be more than crafty enough to deal with it.

So, they're both dead, and that's why this is the greatest videogame ending ever.
 
D

DarthWoo

I'm glad Grandpa porked a Chinese Muslim
Crazymoogle said:
General consensus including sprite evidence:
Ovelia stabs Delita with the knife (surprising Delita, but not causing him to lose his wits), and then Delita stabs back. The way Delita drops after the counterattack is much more suggestive that the injury is effecting him, since he a)seemed to love Ovelia more in a career way, and b)would be far more likely to reconsider his position (as his last words go) if he was about to pass out or bleed out. If it was just about Ovelia, he would be more than crafty enough to deal with it.

So, they're both dead, and that's why this is the greatest videogame ending ever.
Click to expand...

Hmm...
I didn't even consider Delita as also having been injured/killed. It looks more like Ovelia had made a clumsy attempt at stabbing him and missed, and then his warrior's reflexes turned the knife around and back into her.
 
D

dog$

Hates quality gaming
I'm sorry to have missed this thread. I have little to add...

FFT is unbalanced, sure. The feeling of over-power that you can obtain is just great :) Nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than starting a battle after 5 minutes of dialog and ending it with one movement and one attack. Or the times when my army of 99/99 Math Monks could eliminate the entire enemy's forces before they had a chance to attack.

This game just offered tons of crap to do, and the entire interface and environment made it really endearing to me.
 
T

Tsubaki

Member
To all those reading the thread, please do not confuse Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (SFC/SS/PSX) and Tactics Ogre Gaiden/Tactics Ogre Knight of Lodis (GBA). They are completely different games, with completely different game engines and emphasis, and with different directors.

Mejilan said:
TO LUCT > TO KoL > FFTA > FFT
Click to expand...

While I have FFT and FFTA, I haven't had a chance to pop them open yet but...

I thought TO:KoL was the absolute worst SRPG I've played. I forced myself to play it from beginning to end and at every moment thought: "WTF does this garbage have unanimous praise!"

Then I played TO:LUCT and realized that the game is absolutely brilliant and is worthy of all the respect and trolling in FFT topics. Hard as nails, where strategy is required. Definitely not a game for the average gamer, but for the enthusiast who has patience. But that patience is rewarded with each won battle with no casualties. Playing the game itself is your reward. Mmmm.

Can't wait to finally beat it... been stuck on one battle for a month now. Then I'll crack open FFT and FFTA to see how Matsuno has progressed.
 
G

Great Wasabi Man

Member
I loved this game just the little characters animations in the story parts. Like towards the begining when you come across the town gruads beating the piss out a villager. :lol

One thing tha annoied me is that you outleveld the important battles but not the random ones. Or do I have that backwards?
 
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