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Yatagarasu Attack on Cataclysm [2DFG Indiegogo; $118K Funded; Over]

Ravidrath said:
We met with RyoRca and M2 at E3, and she was asking for advice on this campaign and I sent her a bunch of tips and stuff.

Also, I strongly recommend going with GGPO. The license is cheap, it's proven and reliable and... Japanese devs don't really have a good track record of promising good netcode and delivering. I don't know if it's pride or just that they're not actually testing outside of Japan, where the internet is worse, but this seems to be the trend.
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The devs stated on the igg that they think their netcode works better in Japan. You know what, GGPO works just fine in Japan, and it works a lot better outside of Japan, and the US market is pretty damn important. Also, it's largely Americans backing this- we're the folks who should be listened to. I hope that doesn't sound too entitled, but it does worry me.


That said, I have doubts this will make 68k at this point, only 6k so far. Skullgirls was at what, 50-60k after 2 days? Unless they get Zone-sama or ponies, it's gonna be rough.
 
AlphaProspector said:
Is it as terrible as over here? (South America, where I have a 3mb connection: that's 378 kb/s download rate and a brutally capped upload rate of 20 kb/s) If a game works online over here with 100 ping I'm already happy... I get like 150/210 ping to the US. (Yeah, yeah, first thing I should do is update my bloody connection.)
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Oosh I remember having that, thankfully my infrastructure was updated last year and now I'm sitting at 1.1 mb/s download.

Not much of an improvement, really, but I feel you.

GGPO is essential to international netcode, japan needs to test outside their bubble.
 
GGPO I could somewhat play Brazilians/Argentinians in the US. It's that good.

SNK devs opinions on netcode are never to be trusted. I really think Nyu should have said GGPO or we're walking from this.
 
alstein said:
That said, I have doubts this will make 68k at this point, only 6k so far. Skullgirls was at what, 50-60k after 2 days? Unless they get Zone-sama or ponies, it's gonna be rough.
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It lasts for 45 days, I think $68,000 is possible.
Keep Skullgrils Growing's goal was $150,000, which they hit in under 24 hours.
 
Would it be possible to add GGPO as an early stretch goal? In-House Code with normal funding, In house and/or GGPO for stretch? I think there'd be a few who'd be willing to push it, with that promise...

The problem with "In house" code is that it's not proven, where as GGPO give a "Well, that's one issue off the list!" simplicity. (Even though all my experiences with GGPO haven't been great). It's a thing that instantly gets a large amount of the community behind you.
 
Busaiku said:
It lasts for 45 days, I think $68,000 is possible.
Keep Skullgrils Growing's goal was $150,000, which they hit in under 24 hours.
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Also keep in mind that the Skullgals IGG didn't get on the crazy train with funding until the final two days, which is typical behavior for Kickstarters.
 
I'm a little torn on this. From one aspect, I don't play FGs online as much as the average fan... But if I'm gonna back up a game like this, even if the price and the content is very good, I'd like to get a good online experience. GGPO so far seems like the safest bet.

Gonna wait for a while before I make a decision regarding backing up this.
 
GenkiPatton said:
We can’t promise that we’ll use GGPO right at this time, but how about we research which is better and then use whichever works out to be best for the players?
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LegatoB said:
I'm glad they're open to considering other possibilities. Input delay alone is fine if you're reliably getting pings of like 40ms or w/e... but in my experience, you won't get those in the US. Even in geographically short differences.
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I can't agree with this sentiment more. Even with having a relatively decent fiber connection, and playing people who are geographically close, my best experiences are with GGPO; by far. And a lot of countries don't have the good network infrastructure that far east Asia has. So please continue to consider it, and I'm sure people (especially those on the fence about supporting it) would greatly appreciate finding out the results of your team's comparison research and final decision regarding netcode.

And finally, when developing and/or choosing a netcode (especially for games where latency is the biggest concern) for an international audience, I am of the firm believe that it should be optimized for the worst connections, not the most ideal (Japan, Korea, UK etc). I do state this with acknowledgement that there are logistical and financial limitations in what a developer could do in regards testing and researching outside of their home market (I'm certainly not suggesting including extreme cases like mesh networks in your test scenarios). But luckily for us, there is a netcode with a proven track record to perform well in less than ideal network infrastructure environments, in GGPO.

alstein said:
GGPO I could somewhat play Brazilians/Argentinians in the US. It's that good.

SNK devs opinions on netcode are never to be trusted. I really think Nyu should have said GGPO or we're walking from this.
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This very much mirrors my experiences in regards to playing long distance international players on GGPO. As to the last two statements, I'm assuming is in regards to KoF13's bad netcode. While I wouldn't go so far as to say "never," I must admit KoF13's netcode makes it a very unfortunate experience to play online (regardless of geographical distances).
 
After thinking about my experience with GG's horrible netcode and KOF XIII's online situation I'm going to hold out for a bit. No GGPO in this day and age is more or less a deal breaker for me. The United States is just too big.

I wish these dudes the best of luck, though.
Cosmo Clock 21 said:
Also keep in mind that the Skullgals IGG didn't get on the crazy train with funding until the final two days, which is typical behavior for Kickstarters.
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The Skullgirls IGG campaign was on the "crazy train" from day one. I can assure you of that much. I'm sure Ravidrath would agree with me.
 
Cosmo Clock 21 said:
Might be misremembering, but didn't the SG IGG raise more money in the last three days than the rest of the month combined?
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SG had a number of advantages- such as appeal outside the niche FGC, and it's art/music.

There's just not a big market for indie PC fighters that don't have an outside hook the way Skullgirls did (most Skullgirls fans aren't FGC- to the point where I wonder if Lab Zero should move the IP outside of fighting games)

As for never trust SNK on netcode- look at their other releases as well- KOFXII, 98UM, 02UM, Garou, SS2. All sub-par to terrible.

I do think the devs over there need to understand just how spread out poverty FG fans are.
 
Cosmo Clock 21 said:
Might be misremembering, but didn't the SG IGG raise more money in the last three days than the rest of the month combined?
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Nah, the last three days was something like 600k->829k. The rest of the month was massive. You just don't understand how big day one was haha. Peter and the rest of Lab Zero were literally caught with their pants down. No one expected Squigly (150k) to be funded in a single day so they basically had to say "screw weeks of work, just throw everything at the wall along with ponies and the kitchen sink" to catch up with the demand.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvOEeDkPckINdEFVZFZiNHB1ZDNiZ2VYa0lPcVZyclE#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtKl-kKV5ZybdHRNUklPdjRIak1QMkx5M1JFeUk2WUE&pli=1#gid=9

Courtesy of Delusibeta.
 
It is pretty scary to per order a game that could be completely unplayable online. Considering their track record, and I can't think of another Japanese indie game with good netcode.
 
GenkiPatton said:
We actually pitched for GGPO pretty hard when we first discussed working together with the devs, but they're very confident that their improved netcode can hold its own against GGPO and so that’s what’s in our plan. That said, the interest and demand for GGPO has been huge, so I wouldn't say that it's totally out of the question just yet.
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First, you really need to convince them to use GGPO. People will not buy indie fighting games without it.

Also, a few questions Genki.

Is everything going to be localized into English? (Artbooks, digital commentary, etc.?)

What will the quality of the digital packs be like? Will we see high-quality originals, or more low-fi junk like Blades of Time/Strike Suit Zero?
 
Been playing the current version over the past few days (v4.3). Parrying disables the ability to block for a few frames, which is a nice touch and makes parrying not exactly the same as 3S. Plenty of characters can combo a ground string from the UOH if timed right, making it pretty useful. Jet and Chadha seem to have the best damage, but Hina and Shimo have interesting spacing games. The game is very sound, functionally speaking.

Now if only I could find a game under 100 ping...
 
Juicebox_FGC said:
Been playing the current version over the past few days (v4.3). Parrying disables the ability to block for a few frames, which is a nice touch and makes parrying not exactly the same as 3S. Plenty of characters can combo a ground string from the UOH if timed right, making it pretty useful. Jet and Chadha seem to have the best damage, but Hina and Shimo have interesting spacing games. The game is very sound, functionally speaking.

Now if only I could find a game under 100 ping...
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When you say can't block, is it can't block, or can't do anything offensive? Could you do parry/DP.
 
alstein said:
When you say can't block, is it can't block, or can't do anything offensive? Could you do parry/DP.
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Specifically, you cannot parry or block for a few frames after an unsuccessful parry attempt. You can absolutely OS a parry into something else though, like a throw tech or a dp.

I tested LP+LK+low parry on wakeup and i teched throws as well as parried lows. To beat this, simply delay a low or attack with something that can only be high-parried.
 
There really needs to be a stickied thread for gaming kickstarters/indiegogo things, possibly broken down inside with pc and those that have console possibilities.
 
GenkiPatton said:
We actually pitched for GGPO pretty hard when we first discussed working together with the devs, but they're very confident that their improved netcode can hold its own against GGPO and so that’s what’s in our plan. That said, the interest and demand for GGPO has been huge, so I wouldn't say that it's totally out of the question just yet.
Click to expand...
I keep hearing things like this from Japanese devs, I still fondly remember Ryota Niitsuma's "speed of light" netcode comments, and yet the result is largely always the same. If not worse like in KoF 13's case. I have no doubt their netcode is going to work great in the Far East Asian countries like Korea, Taiwan, and, of course, Japan where internet infrastructure and speeds dwarf the rest of the world (for the most part), but I'm going to go ahead and just assume the thing is going to be a chore to play online here in NYC because that's just been my experience with non-GGPO fighters this gen. BlazBlu was the only exception (shame I didn't end up liking the game very much).

Here's hoping their netcode ends up having more in common with BB than KoF13. Wish you guys all the best and success with both the crowdfunding campaign and release of the game.
 
Hi, guys.

Thanks for all the feedback on regarding latency & netcode. All of this is being fed back to the devs, so feel free to keep it coming – the more input from more people we have, the better.

Catching up on questions from the weekend:

kiunchbb said:
Does v4.3 have online?
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Yes, it does. Rice Digital's version of 4.3 has localized the in-game networking options and they have an English manual for the config utility.

Busaiku said:
Something I've been wondering, does the English language support include dubbing the characters?
Or is it just referring to the commentary tracks?
Click to expand...

Good question. We won't be dubbing the characters (yeuch!) - just the commentary tracks :)

Cyrano said:
Is everything going to be localized into English? (Artbooks, digital commentary, etc.?)
Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely.

Cyrano said:
What will the quality of the digital packs be like?
Click to expand...

We're still nailing down the specifics regarding the content, but they won't be just a check in the 'digital art' box.
 
GenkiPatton said:
Hi, guys.

Thanks for all the feedback on regarding latency & netcode. All of this is being fed back to the devs, so feel free to keep it coming – the more input from more people we have, the better.

Catching up on questions from the weekend:



Yes, it does. Rice Digital's version of 4.3 has localized the in-game networking options and they have an English manual for the config utility.



Good question. We won't be dubbing the characters (yeuch!) - just the commentary tracks :)



Yes, absolutely.



We're still nailing down the specifics regarding the content, but they won't be just a check in the 'digital art' box.
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Thanks for the reply Genki! Sent a PM to you with some additional questions. Let me know!
 
Yoooo, James Chen has been announced as the first English dynamic commentator:

Announcing our first English language dynamic commentator for Yatagarasu Attack to Cataclysm!

The first English language dynamic commentator for Yatagarasu Attack to Cataclysm will be none other than pillar of the Fighting Game Community, jchensor AKA James Chen!

jchensor has a long, long history in the fighting game community and has been active in pretty much every aspect of the scene, including tournament playing, FAQ writing, creating combo videos, making EVO trailers, writing articles, and providing live commentary at events. He currently co-runs and co-hosts UltraChenTV.com, which airs live steaming shows with the mission of spreading the love of fighting games and develop the Fighting Game Community.

With Yatagarasu Attack on Cataclysm’s unique dynamic commentary system, jchensor will comment on YOUR matches in real time! Expect props for kicking butt and some dissing for bad play!

We are honored and excited to have jchensor be a part of Yatagarasu Attack to Cataclysm – please welcome him onboard!

jchensor on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jchensor
jchensor on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jchensor
UltraChen TV: http://www.ultrachentv.com/
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I wish I could contribute to this as a commentator. So badly. We need more fighting games like this and I'll be promoting it for awhile either way.

I worked for MLG ya know... *nudge, wink*
 
Juicebox_FGC said:
I wish I could contribute to this as a commentator. So badly. We need more fighting games like this and I'll be promoting it for awhile either way.

I worked for MLG ya know... *nudge, wink*
Click to expand...

Throw your name in the hat, man. I'm sure if you message them, they'd respond.
 
The Yatagarasu dev team has agreed to add GGPO! Here is their latest message to all:

Hello, this is Shiza from the Yatagarasu dev team.

Thank you to everyone who provided feedback regarding GGPO. It was especially useful for us to learn that Internet latency is a problem for players in the US.

Implementing GGPO in Yatagarasu Attack on Cataclysm should be possible. We had originally planned to test GGPO during development, but now we have decided to actually go ahead and use GGPO in Yatagarasu Attack on Cataclysm.

Fitting GGPO into the current development schedule and budget is difficult because we already have a large number of features and improvements planned. So, we will make revise our campaign as follows:


  • GGPO will be added as our first stretch goal.
  • We will have to extend the release date slightly to allow time to add GGPO.
  • We have not fully tested GGPO yet, so it’s possible we may encounter technical problems that will delay the release. If it looks like there will be significant delay, we will release the game first without GGPO and then add it as soon as the implementation is completed (it may be as soon as a few days.)
Please understand that this is the most practical way for us to proceed. We hope that this will address any concerns about the experience of online matches in Yatagarasu Attack to Cataclysm.

Thank you for your sincere feedback and for your support!

Shiza
Yatagarasu Development Team​
The campaign page will be revised to reflect the above today :)

Thanks, in particular, to GAF members for helping make this happen – your feedback was key to convincing the team!
 
Guize, Guize, an SNKP-ish entity is going to use GGPO!! Landmark event!

Really though, great news. Developers listening to international outcry is always very appreciated! And I like how honest they are about the reality of it's implementation.
 
Yeah, this is going to be the very first project ive ever backed.

Cant say no to former KOF devs :3
 
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