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Steve Youngblood · Dec 3, 2007

soul creator said:
I guess one question is, why is it apparently acceptable and encouraged to override "biological instincts" in one way (monogamy), but not acceptable and seen as some impossible thing to do in another way (jealousy)? Even when it's shown time and time again that strict monogamy is not exactly the perfect solution to every possible relationship?

my guess is sociology, culture, and yes, religion! (which falls under sociology I guess)

The problem I think is that both people need to meet the other's expectations. And as I said, expectations are ever-changing. One day, neither person wants to be tied down, and are both happy to be in an open relationship. The next, one person is tired of playing 'the game', and is looking to settle down. The second this happens, the other person needs to adjust, or it's all over, as this really isn't something that can be compromised. Either you see eye to eye, or it's all over.

Yes, monogamy isn't perfect, but it's still the societal norm for more serious relationships: marriage and/or family. The rules are also very clearly defined in that your partner is your only romantic/sexual partner. The second this guideline is violated, or the second that there is desire to violate this guideline, the relationship falters. Open relationships are a bit more hairy. First of all, what is the definition of the open relationship? Is it a strictly open and casual, no strings attached relationship? Because these are a little easier to maintain, but they are harder to take to any sort of next step. Is it a relationship where one or both people are involved in a love triangle? If so, one or both of your partners are likely to grow weary of the arrangement. Is it a relationship where one partner is considered your 'main' partner, and everyone else is considered a side relationship? If so, what designates the one partner as the 'main' partner, and everyone else as being on the side? Will both people permanently accept this arrangement?

Those are where the issues arise. Obviously, no one solution is right for everyone, and I'm sure some people are capable of maintaining some sort of open relationship. But for the purposes of this debate as to whether open relationships can work, I think it's important to define both what is meant by an "open relationship," and what is meant by such a relationship 'working.'

BocoDragon · Dec 3, 2007

Vlad said:
Again, sorry things went so badly for you, but it does sound like things were pretty much doomed anyway. Also, it sounds like she just went out and found some random guy and went off to sleep with him. There's plenty of different ways to go about the whole "open" thing. Instead of each person just off on their own finding someone to screw, it's probably a better idea to attend "swinger" functions together. There's personals sites that allow for free profiles for couples (apparently it's the single males who have to pay), and from what I've been told, most places tend to have a swinger community of some sort of another.

Hmm... no it didn't go badly at all. It went exactly as planned. It just isn't always peaches and cream to share your partner.

maharg · Dec 3, 2007

Vlad said:
Polygamy: Main couple having "friends with benefits" with others.
Polyamory: Mutual emotional and physical attraction amongst a group.

Your terminology is a little confused as well. Polygamy is a very specific structure of relationship that doesn't really qualify as open. It is where one (or, rarely, both) partner has more than one spouse. Not just partner, but spouse. The most common forms of polygamy are actually called polygyny (one man, multiple woman). The opposite is polyandry and has happened historically but is rare. But polygamy is equivalent to marriage, with all the ownership concepts that entails.

On the other end of the spectrum, you have swinging, which is what a lot of people in this thread seem to be talking about. It includes all forms of purely sexual side relationships and 'wifeswapping.'

Polyamory is a blanket term for all sorts of open-ish relationships. Generally it seems to mean everything between the extremes of polygamy and swinging. To some people it seems to include those as well. There are a lot of subsets of this as well, with terms like 'vee,' 'network,' 'triad,' 'quad,' etc. that all have fairly obvious meanings.

It's worth noting that people in any of these types of relationships can cheat, and that cheating is usually done in the same way as a monogamous relationship.

Open relationship doesn't really mean anything. But it is a common term used for any kind of relationship that doesn't fit the serial monogamy concept most people consider the norm.

Steve Youngblood said:
But for the purposes of this debate as to whether open relationships can work, I think it's important to define both what is meant by an "open relationship," and what is meant by such a relationship 'working.'

Given such a broad spectrum of relationship types, I don't think such a narrow definition is possible. It's also quite likely that any definition chosen is going to be the one most people in here have experience with, which is also conveniently the most likely to fail. For that matter, what exactly constitutes success in a monogamous relationship?

Anasui Kishibe · Dec 3, 2007

I'm all about open relationships. My girlfriend can hump all the girls she wants, and I wouldn't even feel ashamed of spotting her performing a 69

in all seriousness, the whole idea would be unacceptable for me. You have to have a particular state of mind to make it work, and I mean seriously work. And with particular state of mind I mean "a little fucked up". One of my friends' sister is 35, and she's basically the biggest bitch in town. Her fiance has been with her for sixteen f'ing years and he obviously know she's a pussy giveaway, but he doesn't give a damn. They aren't that normal to me but what is normal? I would never judge'em but I would never join 'em, too jealous and respectful

Mr. Banana Grabber · Dec 3, 2007

the_id said:
The first woman I fuck will be the only woman I'll ever fuck for the rest of my life.

Well who can blame you? You gotta lock that down.

Flambe · Dec 4, 2007

the_id said:
The first woman I fuck will be the only woman I'll ever fuck for the rest of my life.

I'm living your dream right now, it's nice =p Pathetic that it happened at 20, but was the price I paid for seclusion.

But yeah, married her and long as nothing untoward happens it should be a good life

speedpop · Dec 4, 2007

I think my ex-girlfriend tried to do this with me a couple years after we broke up. She wanted to get back together without the hangovers that come with serious relationships and I just figured it was all to do with casual sex, so I told her to get over it and go find some other sausage to root. Sometimes my morals can stoop at an all-time low depending on the circumstances but they don't swing that way.

reggieandTFE · Dec 4, 2007

Some of my friends have been pretty committed anarchists and have, at various times, attempted open relationships. Generally they were mildly successful until the drama just erupted. One of the guys i work with is a middle-aged dog and he's currently in an open relationship with his gf because he's on the road all the time. She's not too into it and doesn't sleep with anyone else, but its been working for them for a couple years now.

BudokaiMR2 · Dec 4, 2007

Yeah doesn't seem like it could work to me.

I mean someone is bound to get jealous.

and IF they didn't get jealous that just means that they really don't care as much about their 'relationship' as they think.

At least that's how I see it.

Steve Youngblood · Dec 4, 2007

maharg said:
Given such a broad spectrum of relationship types, I don't think such a narrow definition is possible. It's also quite likely that any definition chosen is going to be the one most people in here have experience with, which is also conveniently the most likely to fail. For that matter, what exactly constitutes success in a monogamous relationship?

Yes, I know that it's not possible to narrow it down to a specific definition. But we need to at least get it into a specific ball park. What I mean to ask is which spectrum of relationships are we talking about? Are we discussing relationships that start off casually where both people agree that they're not looking for anything serious? Are we talking about troubled relationships where they go the open route as a last ditch effort? Are we talking swingers who are open sexually? Are we talking about the polyamorous? All have their own dynamic, and all would carry with it a different idea of what success or failure would be.

Freestyler · Dec 4, 2007

Doesn't work. I'm in a slightly different situation as I've been having a secret affair with my best friend (we're both guys - he's "straight" and I'm fully out) for 7 years now (we were 15 when it began) and I've fallen completely in love with him. I told him this a couple of months ago and we're all good, he basically confessed to me that he doesn't know what he wants from a partner etc., and that he doesn't know if he likes girls or guys or either (possibly asexual, even though the sex between us is incred).

Anyway, my point is that I'm completely obsessed with him and he doesn't feel the same - another example of an 'open/casual relationship' turning into one where one of the partners is jealous and wants more from the relationship emotionally.

LuCkymoON · Dec 4, 2007

Teh Hamburglar said:
I dont know too many straight couples that have "open relationships" but I was wondering if any of you have participated in, or know others who do? I see this sort of thing in the gay community far more often than I'd like. Its usually when two hot people know their hot and have to have sex with as many people as they can while trying to have some kind of relationship (even if its false). I really dont like the term since fuck buddy is a more apt description I think. Anywho, inquiring minds want to know.

the reality is never as good as the fantasy.

Steve Youngblood · Dec 4, 2007

I know that there has been a lot of skepticism in this topic, and I myself have expressed some. However, I think in fairness, playing the devil's advocate, a lot of the anecdotal evidence has overlooked a lot of the reasoning behind why several of these examples have failed, and why a lot of traditional, monogamous relationships fail -- lack of honesty.

Many people have cited examples of relationships where people stepped back into open relationships from being serious and committed. I cited some as well. However, these didn't fail because open relationships are inherently flawed. They failed because the open relationship was a lie. It was a band-aid applied to a massive wound. One or both people weren't ready to face the reality in front of them, so they manufactured a way to try and make it work, even though in hindsight they could probably see that it was just an easier way of transitioning to the inevitable outcome.

Relationships that start off casual but end up with one person getting hurt end badly because either one person wasn't honest up front, or because they weren't honest when things started to change. One person waits until they're head over heels in love with the other person before letting them know that they have real feelings, and obviously at this point, it's probably a little too late to drop such a bombshell. As soon as the dynamic STARTS to change, it's time to let the other person know. However, many people deceive themselves into believing that what they have now is better than what they might lose if they reveal what it is that they truly want, so they go on with what they know is a lie. So again, of course this is going to fail. Committed relationships can fail for the very same reasons.

Yes, jealousy can often enter into things, and since open relationships are something that are a little out of the norm, a person attempting to enter one should know themselves well enough to determine before they get into such a mess whether or not they can handle one. However, people are just as capable of lying to themselves as much as they are of lying to another.

Absinthe (Permed) · Dec 4, 2007

An open relationship is a paradox. If you want to fuck around then simply fuck around. The entire concept is beyond me. Human nature says that these types of relationships never work out because of ego, jealousy, and competition.

Steve Youngblood · Dec 4, 2007

Absinthe said:
An open relationship is a paradox. If you want to fuck around then simply fuck around. The entire concept is beyond me. Human nature says that these types of relationships never work out because of ego, jealousy, and competition.

I don't know if I would ascribe all of these things to human nature. Some of it would be human nature, but I think some of it might also be societal convention. Sure, playing the field is okay when you're not in a serious relationship, but to enter one, we're told that we have to put those feelings behind us. However, that doesn't stop people from people from having affairs. It doesn't stop people from breaking up because they might wonder what they're missing. It doesn't stop people who remain faithful from lusting after others. Even people in the happiest of relationships can't deny attraction to others. Attempting to deny this is also denying human nature. Society tells you that you have to be faithful to make your relationship work, not human nature.

Absinthe (Permed) · Dec 4, 2007

It has nothing to do with faithfulness. Faithfulness is the least the to worry about in an open relationship. What happens is people start getting jealous over who the other person is fucking. A lot of times people start bragging about how many more people they've slept with over the other person. It bruises egos and potentially vaginal walls.

Mason · Dec 4, 2007

Someone already said this earlier in the thread, so I really just wanted to agree. I think the point, knowingly or not, with a lot of 'open relationships' is that one person wants to keep the other one around, potentially for a serious relationship, but wants to screw around with others until they're sure.

I could never do it, though. I only get involved with people I'm very serious about being with, so it'd never work.

Steve Youngblood · Dec 4, 2007

Absinthe said:
It has nothing to do with faithfulness. Faithfulness is the least the to worry about in an open relationship. What happens is people start getting jealous over who the other person is fucking. A lot of times people start bragging about how many more people they've slept with over the other person. It bruises egos and potentially vaginal walls.

If an ego gets bruised, it's probably a sign that the person wasn't ready for what they signed up for. You're saying that these things fail because of ego. So would it be better if you weren't forthright about other relationships? If it was just an understanding that was never discussed, would the relationship be stronger? I doubt that. In practice, I think if one did this, the need to conceal what is happening, even if it was understood that you would do it, is more telling than being honest. It implies that either you want your significant other to think that you're being faithful even if they're supposed to know that you won't be because you don't think they can handle the truth, or that you want to live a lie.

Either way, I don't think this is a knock against the idea of open relationships, so much as a knock against the flawed execution of them.

Absinthe (Permed) · Dec 4, 2007

Open relationships are inherently flawed. They will never work out because of societal conventions and how people have been trained to perceive relationships. Sure, people will say they're cool with them until they're blue in the face, but the execution will flatline.

Steve Youngblood · Dec 4, 2007

What I'm saying is, take for example friendship. Surely, you have been, or still are friends with someone strictly because of similar interests and personalities. You enjoy each other's company, and often hang out together to do things like have beers, have lunch, go bowling, play games, watch movies, and so on.

However, it doesn't have a lot of depth to it. You rarely, if ever, talk about your feelings and ambitions. You focus on superficial conversation and common interests, and you enjoy it. You don't get jealous if the other person is busy. You don't get jealous if they don't feel like hanging out tonight. And there's nothing wrong with that, right?

Is there something wrong with wanting to transpose this into a quasi-romantic relationship -- one that involves some elements of romance and sex, but with none of the baggage that comes with it? Surely, two people can come together in such an arrangement. It's the basis of the idea of "friends with benefits." And sure, it may fail. But a lot of traditional relationships fail as well. Not everything is meant to last. People change, and not everyone is honest up front. It doesn't mean that the idea is wrong, just that maybe it's not always as rosy as it sounds on paper. But such is life.

Absinthe (Permed) · Dec 4, 2007

And what I'm saying is that things like "friends with benefits" usually comes with a lot of melodrama and problems. It's better to fuck around and play the field to have a "friend with benefits" or an "open relationship".

Big Chief Crazy Cone · Dec 4, 2007

I dont know if my situation really applies but...

Up until yesterday my girlfriend and I had been together for 18 months. I'm in college and she's a senior in high school. We met over the summer in 2006 and fell in love and we kept it going, even though I live in Pittsburgh, (now Boston) and she lived in Philly. I got to see her about once a month, except in the summertime when I would see her everyday. I want to be with this girl more than anything, so we stayed together when I went to college. The thing is, we both know that if she doesn't come to school in Boston, we'll have to break up. It's also very likely that she will go and live in Israel for a year, starting in June, and I will never see her. So, eventually it was inevitable that we would have to break up before she left and we both knew that... as much as you love someone you can't ask them to be with you for over a year when you can't even talk to them on the phone.

So yesterday she called and said its best for both of us if we end our relationship right now. I'm free to do what I want here at school and she can concentrate on college and her theatre ambitions... and its better to do it now and get used to it then doing it in June. We both still love each other and want to be together, but it just can't work. It kills me inside. I'm still going to call her once in a while and maybe I'll go her prom. But I know the second I see her I won't want her to leave again. On the bright side, if I can get over it, I can be guilt free in college and if she winds up in Boston (her #1 choice is my school, ironically) we'll start up again.

What's weird and what I've seen a lot of in this thread is that in my mind I think I could get with another girl eventually and not feel too bad about it. I know its not any of my business anymore, but if she told me she got with someone else, I'd probably be really jealous, even if I did the same thing. And I'm almost never jealous. I let my girlfriend go to dances with dates that aren't me because I couldn't be there. We both trust each other immensely, but that just doesnt matter anymore.

So I love this girl and she loves me, but I cant see her and on the phone we're just "friends." I can do whatever I want, except the one thing I really want to do, which is be with her. It sucks. Its the first day in aver 18 months we haven't talked. I'm sure it'll get "better," but right now I can only think of what I've lost. What's funny is I'm really confident that if she winds up here in Boston in fall 2009, she'll still have feelings for me. And I'll likely be the same way. I really don't know what to do. I feel like even if I was with someone else, I would just think about her, and thats not fair to anyone. This is really the hardest thing I've ever done.

Sorry for the rant, it helps to just get that out though. Thanks GAF.

WickedCobra03 · Dec 4, 2007

I am a guy and personally, I think its kinda weird. Somewhat informal...sex is nice to have with someone you really are in love with eh?

Steve Youngblood · Dec 4, 2007

Absinthe said:
And what I'm saying is that things like "friends with benefits" usually comes with a lot of melodrama and problems. It's better to fuck around and play the field to have a "friend with benefits" or an "open relationship".

Relationships in general come with a lot of melodrama and problems. How many monogamous relationships actually end up with the couple living happily ever after until death parts them? I'm going to say that a very, very small percentage of them do. Again, I don't think this is a knock exclusive to open relationships.

If you're trying to avoid melodrama and problems, you might as well avoid any and all interpersonal relationships that might carry with them any amount of depth altogether.

Nick · Dec 4, 2007

(didn't read the thread)

I'm in an open relationship. I live with my boyfriend of six months. It was tough at first, because I'm a hypocrite in a lot of ways. I was going out and fucking guys all the time, and then getting really, really, really jealous when he would do the same thing. It took a lot of time to get used to everything, but I am finally at a place where I am okay with how this works.

He loves me. I love him. That's all that matters. I don't care if he's out there getting gang banged by ten guys in a bath house. He comes home to me, because I am his home.

It took a long time for me to get this way. Trust me. I do believe an open relationship is a mature one.

Edit: I need to add to this a bit more.

An open relationship really forces you to question yourself, and why you're in this relationship to begin with. What's the point, right?

"Do I love this person enough to let them be with other people sexually?"
"Do I love them enough to risk the possibility that my partner might find someone 'better' than me, sexually or emotionally?"
"Am I in this because I'm just lonely, or do I really do honestly care about them?"

Our six month anniversary is next week, and let me tell you, there has been at least fifty times where I have packed my bags and thought about moving out of this house. IT IS TOUGH to think you're not everything your partner needs. But who is? If you are in a relationship for the right reasons, and not fooling yourself into thinking you are everything to this person (you're not), then you should be okay in knowing your partner is human. They have eyes. They are attracted to many different people. They love sex *just* as much as you do. They will eventually grow bored of having sex with you. Love them for who they are, every part of them, and you'll soon grow okay with the concept of an open relationship.

A lot of relationships, closed or otherwise, end in infidelity. Why? Because you expected this person to be monogamous, "only with you", and celibate. This is not the world we live in anymore. Cheating happens. But what happens now? You break up, right? Over a fuck? You're going to end a relationship that has brought you happiness, fulfillment, excitement and love over a quick and primal urge? Fuck that. When I'm in my boyfriends arms, nothing else matters in life. I'm happy, and I feel loved. It's all I want in this world. It's not realistic to think I'm everything to him. I'm not! So if he wants to go play with other boys, get his rocks off and enjoy his youth, who am I to stop him? I will never break up with him because he wants what I want.

Think about when you're having sex. It's fun, and sexy, and a great way to show interest in someone. Does it have to mean something? Hell no! I've been with

dozens of

guys since I've met my boyfriend, and the only times where I've felt like the sex was important was with my boyfriend. It was love. If you can believe your partner feels the same way, then you should trust them.

One more thing. Remember, jealousy never got anybody anything. It's immature, brattish and unnecessary.

krypt0nian · Dec 4, 2007

Nick, check your PM's ho!

VistraNorrez · Dec 4, 2007

Steve Youngblood said:
Relationships in general come with a lot of melodrama and problems. How many monogamous relationships actually end up with the couple living happily ever after until death parts them? I'm going to say that a very, very small percentage of them do. Again, I don't think this is a knock exclusive to open relationships.

If you're trying to avoid melodrama and problems, you might as well avoid any and all interpersonal relationships that might carry with them any amount of depth altogether.

I think the difference is the problems related to Open relationships are unnecessary. If you want to fuck around you shouldn't have to worry about emotionally satisfying a person. This is something you have to do in a monogamous serious relationship. So the problems, if you care for the person, are worth having. A relationship would be boring if it didn't have some degree of drama.

mambadragon · Dec 4, 2007

VistraNorrez said:
I think the difference is the problems related to Open relationships are unnecessary. If you want to fuck around you shouldn't have to worry about emotionally satisfying a person. This is something you have to do in a monogamous serious relationship. So the problems, if you care for the person, are worth having. A relationship would be boring if it didn't have some degree of drama.

Ugh, I don't think this is true in serious relationships. I'm in the best relationship of my life primarily because we're both laid back people that trust each other and don't make a big deal out of the small stuff. With disagreements we work together to resolve it instead of making it into a big deal where we act like we're going to break up. If you have to stir up controversy to make the relationship interesting that's got to be tough for the long term.

Oh and I'm not good looking enough to be in an open relationship

Steve Youngblood · Dec 4, 2007

VistraNorrez said:
I think the difference is the problems related to Open relationships are unnecessary. If you want to fuck around you shouldn't have to worry about emotionally satisfying a person. This is something you have to do in a monogamous serious relationship. So the problems, if you care for the person, are worth having. A relationship would be boring if it didn't have some degree of drama.

Well, I think the problem is that the argument here is that a relationship needs to be at either one extreme or the other. Either you should be casually screwing around, or you should be pursuing traditional, long-term and deep relationships. Anything in between isn't even worth trying.

I think that's a bit disingenuous. When you talk about unnecessary drama, it's important to distinguish what kind of drama we're talking about. If it's drama due to jealousy, for example, the only reason why this occurred is because one or both people weren't honest to themselves, or the other person at some point in the relationship. This isn't proof that such a relationship can't work, so much as it is that such a relationship can't work for them.

B!TCH · Dec 4, 2007

It depends on your reasons for being in a relationship.

In the one open relationship I'm aware of, one partner dates around while the other is more loyal to the relationship and they've been together for years.

levious · Dec 4, 2007

the_id said:
The first woman I fuck will be the only woman I'll ever fuck for the rest of my life.

that's easy to say now, when you wise and learned... but what about years from now when you're young and naive?

Mau ® · Dec 4, 2007

Nick said:
(didn't read the thread)

I'm in an open relationship. I live with my boyfriend of six months. It was tough at first, because I'm a hypocrite in a lot of ways. I was going out and fucking guys all the time, and then getting really, really, really jealous when he would do the same thing. It took a lot of time to get used to everything, but I am finally at a place where I am okay with how this works.

He loves me. I love him. That's all that matters. I don't care if he's out there getting gang banged by ten guys in a bath house. He comes home to me, because I am his home.

It took a long time for me to get this way. Trust me. I do believe an open relationship is a mature one.

Edit: I need to add to this a bit more.

An open relationship really forces you to question yourself, and why you're in this relationship to begin with. What's the point, right?

"Do I love this person enough to let them be with other people sexually?"
"Do I love them enough to risk the possibility that my partner might find someone 'better' than me, sexually or emotionally?"
"Am I in this because I'm just lonely, or do I really do honestly care about them?"

Our six month anniversary is next week, and let me tell you, there has been at least fifty times where I have packed my bags and thought about moving out of this house. IT IS TOUGH to think you're not everything your partner needs. But who is? If you are in a relationship for the right reasons, and not fooling yourself into thinking you are everything to this person (you're not), then you should be okay in knowing your partner is human. They have eyes. They are attracted to many different people. They love sex *just* as much as you do. They will eventually grow bored of having sex with you. Love them for who they are, every part of them, and you'll soon grow okay with the concept of an open relationship.

A lot of relationships, closed or otherwise, end in infidelity. Why? Because you expected this person to be monogamous, "only with you", and celibate. This is not the world we live in anymore. Cheating happens. But what happens now? You break up, right? Over a fuck? You're going to end a relationship that has brought you happiness, fulfillment, excitement and love over a quick and primal urge? Fuck that. When I'm in my boyfriends arms, nothing else matters in life. I'm happy, and I feel loved. It's all I want in this world. It's not realistic to think I'm everything to him. I'm not! So if he wants to go play with other boys, get his rocks off and enjoy his youth, who am I to stop him? I will never break up with him because he wants what I want.

Think about when you're having sex. It's fun, and sexy, and a great way to show interest in someone. Does it have to mean something? Hell no! I've been with

dozens of

guys since I've met my boyfriend, and the only times where I've felt like the sex was important was with my boyfriend. It was love. If you can believe your partner feels the same way, then you should trust them.

One more thing. Remember, jealousy never got anybody anything. It's immature, brattish and unnecessary.

QFTMT.

krypt0nian · Dec 4, 2007

God I love nick.

Mason · Dec 4, 2007

Nick said:
(didn't read the thread)

I'm in an open relationship. I live with my boyfriend of six months. It was tough at first, because I'm a hypocrite in a lot of ways. I was going out and fucking guys all the time, and then getting really, really, really jealous when he would do the same thing. It took a lot of time to get used to everything, but I am finally at a place where I am okay with how this works.

He loves me. I love him. That's all that matters. I don't care if he's out there getting gang banged by ten guys in a bath house. He comes home to me, because I am his home.

It took a long time for me to get this way. Trust me. I do believe an open relationship is a mature one.

Edit: I need to add to this a bit more.

An open relationship really forces you to question yourself, and why you're in this relationship to begin with. What's the point, right?

"Do I love this person enough to let them be with other people sexually?"
"Do I love them enough to risk the possibility that my partner might find someone 'better' than me, sexually or emotionally?"
"Am I in this because I'm just lonely, or do I really do honestly care about them?"

Our six month anniversary is next week, and let me tell you, there has been at least fifty times where I have packed my bags and thought about moving out of this house. IT IS TOUGH to think you're not everything your partner needs. But who is? If you are in a relationship for the right reasons, and not fooling yourself into thinking you are everything to this person (you're not), then you should be okay in knowing your partner is human. They have eyes. They are attracted to many different people. They love sex *just* as much as you do. They will eventually grow bored of having sex with you. Love them for who they are, every part of them, and you'll soon grow okay with the concept of an open relationship.

A lot of relationships, closed or otherwise, end in infidelity. Why? Because you expected this person to be monogamous, "only with you", and celibate. This is not the world we live in anymore. Cheating happens. But what happens now? You break up, right? Over a fuck? You're going to end a relationship that has brought you happiness, fulfillment, excitement and love over a quick and primal urge? Fuck that. When I'm in my boyfriends arms, nothing else matters in life. I'm happy, and I feel loved. It's all I want in this world. It's not realistic to think I'm everything to him. I'm not! So if he wants to go play with other boys, get his rocks off and enjoy his youth, who am I to stop him? I will never break up with him because he wants what I want.

Think about when you're having sex. It's fun, and sexy, and a great way to show interest in someone. Does it have to mean something? Hell no! I've been with

dozens of

guys since I've met my boyfriend, and the only times where I've felt like the sex was important was with my boyfriend. It was love. If you can believe your partner feels the same way, then you should trust them.

One more thing. Remember, jealousy never got anybody anything. It's immature, brattish and unnecessary.

You're disgusting and a perfect example of what is wrong with the of the laissez-faire attitude toward sex the gay community perpetuates. Gross, just gross. More and more I'm really hoping you're a joke character.

krypt0nian · Dec 4, 2007

Mason said:
You're disgusting and a perfect example of what is wrong with the of the laissez-faire attitude toward sex the gay community perpetuates. Gross, just gross. More and more I'm really hoping you're a joke character.

Or there is nothing wrong with what he said and people have differing opinions. Not everyone aspires to be a Quaker in this life.

But if you get off by judging others, so be it. Give it a nice long base to head stroke for us sexual deviants. :lol

Escape Goat · Dec 4, 2007

Mason said:
You're disgusting and a perfect example of what is wrong with the of the laissez-faire attitude toward sex the gay community perpetuates. Gross, just gross. More and more I'm really hoping you're a joke character.

Yea, thats the attitude I find everywhere with the gay community in my area. Quite unfortunate that being promiscuous is tolerated and by extension acceptable behavior. I feel Nick has a seriously distorted view of love. Cheating just doesnt *happen*. Saying this only allows you to validate your "relationship". I think Nick mistakes love for security and stability. You love what your boyfriend represents but it is not love in the traditional sense.

jon bones · Dec 4, 2007

All the Arrested Development quotes pretty much sum it up... "open relationships" are not for me (or most people.) Shit doesn't make any sense.

PhlegmMaster · Dec 4, 2007

I think Nick's relationship sounds a lot more beautiful and pure than most monogamous relationships I've seen. Kudos to you, Nick, for having had the guts to get over your jealousy.

I know that sexual jealousy is seen not only as natural, but as a good thing, almost a virtue, but I see no reason why that should be the case. That is, I certainly acknowledge that it's natural, there are plenty of good reasons why natural selection would have shaped our brains this way; just as there are lots of reasons why philandering is natural. But of course it doesn't matter that these things are natural, you can't derive 'ought' from 'is'. It's also natural for males to react violently when their 'honor' is at stake, but most of us have managed to keep our anger under control in that particular situation because we don't see it as a virtue.

Likewise, I don't see anything virtuous about sexual jealousy. We feel threatened, we feel insecure, so we seek to control our partner's actions, even if these actions have no effect whatsoever on us. STDs aside, what harm does it do to you, or anyone else, if your partner has sex with another person?

Now, some might say that what is wrong with cheating is not the sex as such, but the breaking of a promise between two people. I certainly agree with that, breaking promises is wrong. But we're talking about open couples here, pairs of people who have made no such promise, and who have consciously agreed not to let themselves be ruled by sexual jealousy.

There is no a priori reason to think that monogamy is morally superior to open relationships. The notion that it is likely comes from our ancestral past and, in our Western societies, has been strengthened, enshrined and made sacred by Christianity. Unfortunately, most people (even some non-believers) have yet to question this dogma, and so we get intolerant comments like the above.

soul creator · Dec 4, 2007

Teh Hamburglar said:
Yea, thats the attitude I find everywhere with the gay community in my area. Quite unfortunate that being promiscuous is tolerated and by extension acceptable behavior. I feel Nick has a seriously distorted view of love. Cheating just doesnt *happen*. Saying this only allows you to validate your "relationship". I think Nick mistakes love for security and stability. You love what your boyfriend represents but it is not love in the traditional sense.

It's only "cheating" if someone's doing this behind his back. He obviously knows whats going on, and has chose to accept that, so how is it "cheating"?

Nick · Dec 5, 2007

Mason said:
You're disgusting and a perfect example of what is wrong with the of the laissez-faire attitude toward sex the gay community perpetuates. Gross, just gross. More and more I'm really hoping you're a joke character.

That's your opinion, and I respect that.

Karakand · Dec 5, 2007

PhlegmMaster said:
There is no a priori reason to think that monogamy is morally superior to open relationships. The notion that it is likely comes from our ancestral past and, in our Western societies, has been strengthened, enshrined and made sacred by Christianity.

One trick pony!

Escape Goat · Dec 5, 2007

soul creator said:
It's only "cheating" if someone's doing this behind his back. He obviously knows whats going on, and has chose to accept that, so how is it "cheating"?

I used his exact wording.

soul creator · Dec 5, 2007

Teh Hamburglar said:
I used his exact wording.

I misread what you were trying to say. My bad.

PhlegmMaster · Dec 5, 2007

Karakand said:
One trick pony!

:lol I hesitated before writing that sentence, but how could I resist?

Karakand · Dec 5, 2007

PhlegmMaster said:
:lol I hesitated before writing that sentence, but how could I resist?

It's cool dude, we all have our personae to play.

As for its pervasiveness in Western culture, it goes back to the Romans (and probably the Greeks before them). The Romulus and Remus story has a section about the invention of monogamy.

Christianity certainly didn't take issue with it though.

Forgotten Ancient · Dec 5, 2007

If your woman is hot, the only thing open in this kind of relationship is her legs. She'll outnumber your conquests and you'll get jealous, even if you don't love her.

Lock that shit down!

blame space · Dec 5, 2007

What Nick said kinda makes me sick. I mean, Nick, if you're happy, that's great, but if I'm in a relationship I expect my partner to have a little self-control. For some people it's the hardest part of the relationship (the weakest), but it's very much a prerequisite.

daemonic · Dec 5, 2007

The gay community has a lot of issues I would like to see done away with. The existence of these alleged "open relationships" is one of them. I don't know if it's here to stay, or a trend disguised as a social norm, but to me the term open relationship really just describes someone in a sexual relationship with very little substance to it. It's simply used to describe people who have a preference for having sex with one particular person, but isn't willing to commit to anything else with them (at least initially), so sex with others is deemed as acceptable. I personally hate the term and think it's quite disgusting. Being an openly gay guy myself, I get extremely turned off when people describe their lifestyle this way. It's definitely nothing to be proud of, and the gay community seems to promote it way too much.

Anasui Kishibe · Dec 5, 2007

Nick said:
post

if you feel happy the way you live your relationship so be it. I disagree with almost everything you've said, though.

viciouskillersquirrel · Dec 5, 2007

PhlegmMaster said:
There is no a priori reason to think that monogamy is morally superior to open relationships. The notion that it is likely comes from our ancestral past and, in our Western societies, has been strengthened, enshrined and made sacred by Christianity. Unfortunately, most people (even some non-believers) have yet to question this dogma, and so we get intolerant comments like the above.

Uh... you do realise that polygamy is never expressly forbidden in Christianity, don't you? In fact, the only time monogamy is mentioned in the NT was when Paul was listing his recommended characteristics of church overseers/bishops, i.e. "should be husband to only one wife", showing that monogamy was not always implied within Christian marriages.

Do not forget that Christianity began as an offshoot of Judaism, which allowed polygamy and even encouraged it in some instances. Monogamy is a European cultural norm that got co-opted into Christianity later, much like how ascetism was.

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