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Excellent Nintendo Life Editorial Considering Gamepad-less SKU for Wii U

L

LAA

Member
Hmm for Wind Waker, I found the gamepad really useful actually. While saling the seas espiecially. I didn't want to imagine pausing the game and seeing where to go everytime. It was that which made me prefer TV gaming with zelda compared to off screen.

Removing the gamepad won't solve anything in my opinion. The problem with the Wii U has nothing to do with the controller. Sure it'll make it cheaper which may nab it a few more sales, but thats really a short term solution.

The problem with Nintendo is simply Games, 3rd parties, online infastructure and hardware to a point. I imagine seeing its hardware isnt as powerful as a PS4/X1 nor does it use x86 architecture (I think?), I guess its just seen as a bother to develop for Wii U with little gain. That and it doesn't have analogue triggers I think, which is probably a problem for games that depend on it, mainly racing games comes to mind.

The gamepad is really the only thing making the Wii U appear different and more tempting to buy I think... If I didn't have a Wii U already, I'd probably be pretty eager to get one for the gamepad alone. Though yeah that addition is also something that probably puts off devs too.
 
M

maxcriden

Member
ElectricBlanketFire said:
A horn.
Click to expand...

Thanks EBF! I don't think I had heard that.

NYCrooner said:
A Gamepad-less sku will cripple (even more) the sales of titles like ZombiU and Lego City Undercover PLUS confuse the consumer base even more about what the Wii U is.
Click to expand...

akidnamededdy said:
Plus, I can see such a move confusing the "wait, isn't the Wii U just an add-on to the Wii" general public even more than they already are.

I don't think this would be a good idea.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately my impression is that the general public is just as unaware of the Wii U's existence as they are confused by it. So I don't think this is as much of a concern.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Interceptor said:
Why is it that the gamepad needs to be justified constantly? Even more important: Who decides whtat´s "justified"? Is the gpu in the ps4 "justified"? I can have the same game experiences with ps3 hardware - how dare they to rip me off for a new chip no one needs. This discussion is ridiculous. Even the examples are. Pikmin 3 as 101 as numerous others games profit in great ways from the gamepad? Have these journos even played Pikmin 3? And yet again, like in all the discussions before, one point is obiusly missed. Every.Single.Game. justifies the gamepad. How so? Just Miiverse incorporated on an OS level which would be impossible in its current form without the gamepad. And yes, i like my pad being a map and qick launch menu for items. Why is everone telling me this is not enough.?

Goddamn

(sorry for the small rant. There won´t be a padless version. get used to it.)
Click to expand...

Consumers decide. Consumers have decided that the increase cost for better graphical tech in the ps4 is justified by buyingn the shit out of that system, while they have also rejected the GamePad in the Wii U.
 
Davey Cakes

Davey Cakes

Member
I don't like the idea purely because I love the Gamepad.

That's a bit selfish I admit.

To be honest I'd prefer more efforts to sell the Gamepad to prospective buyers. It's a challenge but the device is nifty and it plays a large role in defining the Wii U, even if it's not always utilized 100% in games.
 
T

The Abominable Snowman

Member
SummitAve said:
I'm only ok with this as long as every game still supports off screen play.
Click to expand...

Off-screen was never supported by EVERY game, unfortunately. A move like this would marginalize it even more

But seeing as to how every game coming out from here on is published by Nintendo anyway, it might not matter much because they will always utilize Offscreen for their Wii U games

DreamDrop said:
Off screen play is a bigger deal than people portray it as. IMO, Nintendo should be talking about how fucking cool it is to not be tethered to a TV to play HD games. I mean, my Wii U isn't even attached to a TV. What other HD console can I do that with?
Click to expand...

That screen is NOT HD.
 
T

takriel

Member
I think Zelda U will show us if Nintendo can manage to make a game that truly proves the GamePad's unique worth.
 
M

MercuryLS

Banned
I might be alone here, but the Gamepad makes me want to buy the Wii U less. The massive size of it, the resistive single-touch screen, the very poor use of it in games in general, the atrocious battery life and the cost it ads to the retail price. All very big turn offs, I'd be far more willing to pick up a Wii U at $200 with a pro controller. As it is right now I don't want the Wii U with the Gamepad at any price. The same goes for Xbox One with Kinect, will not touch that shit until Kinect is removed from the box.
 
I

icy_eagle

Member
DreamDrop said:
Why would anyone want to buy an underpowered system? The gamepad is the thing that makes the Wii U unique, without it, it's the gamecube all over again. Nintendo knows that trying too take Sony and Microsoft on head to head will end up destroying them. Yes, they go off the beaten path, but that's because there is no other path for them. Also, it's getting tiresome people ignoring offscreen play. It actually is a very cool feature and shouldn't be looked down on.
Click to expand...

At this point, a 'gamecube all over again' situation, is actually what's expected and a positive things though

Interceptor said:
Why is it that the gamepad needs to be justified constantly? Even more important: Who decides whtat´s "justified"? Is the gpu in the ps4 "justified"? I can have the same game experiences with ps3 hardware - how dare they to rip me off for a new chip no one needs. This discussion is ridiculous. Even the examples are. Pikmin 3 as 101 as numerous others games profit in great ways from the gamepad? Have these journos even played Pikmin 3? And yet again, like in all the discussions before, one point is obiusly missed. Every.Single.Game. justifies the gamepad. How so? Just Miiverse incorporated on an OS level which would be impossible in its current form without the gamepad. And yes, i like my pad being a map and qick launch menu for items. Why is everone telling me this is not enough.?

Goddamn

(sorry for the small rant. There won´t be a padless version. get used to it.)
Click to expand...

The sales numbers speak for themselves. People don't feel that the Wii U is worth a purchase at its current price. The easiest solution probably lies in cutting the Gamepad off and selling it separately.
 
Davey Cakes

Davey Cakes

Member
MercuryLS said:
I might be alone here, but the Gamepad makes me want to buy the Wii U less. The massive size of it, the resistive single-touch screen, the very poor use of it in games in general, the atrocious battery life and the cost it ads to the retail price. All very big turn offs, I'd be far more willing to pick up a Wii U at $200 with a pro controller. As it is right now I don't want the Wii U with the Gamepad at any price. The same goes for Xbox One with Kinect, will not touch that shit until Kinect is removed from the box.
Click to expand...
You say that now but you never know how your opinion might change if you bought a Wii U and experienced the Gamepad.

A lot of the Gamepad defenders are Wii U owners that fell in love with the thing, mostly due to its overall functionality and feel.
 
M

Magnus

Member
DreamDrop said:
Off screen play is a bigger deal than people portray it as. IMO, Nintendo should be talking about how fucking cool it is to not be tethered to a TV to play HD games. I mean, my Wii U isn't even attached to a TV. What other HD console can I do that with?
Click to expand...

I'm tethered to the same room, and looking at a screen that belongs in 2005. Tough sales pitch. Off play isn't a winner for me personally. I've tried and been put off within minutes numerous times.
 
Schnozberry

Schnozberry

Member
No sense in fragmenting your user base at this point. They are better off investing the time and energy into making software to justify the gamepad.
 
Y

Yaoibot

Member
Even if this makes it cheaper, the hardware itself is woefully underpowered. With none of the charm or "must haveness" of the original Wii. The problem is that no one - generalization, yes - wants a Wii U. Rebranding or cutting out existing features won't fix the product.
 
SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I dig the gamepad, and in some games it's preferable to the Pro controller, but removing it isn't going to give the Wii U the boost it needs. With the exception of the Wii fad, Nintendo consoles don't sell because consumers know Nintendo doesn't get the big games. It's a Mario and Zelda box, nothing more.

So all of this removing the gamepad talk is for nothing. The real meat of the issue regarding Nintendo's lackluster sales is image and terrible third party support.
 
M

Malyse

Member
Uncle Rupee said:
Gamecube wasn't underpowered (if anything, it was a very close match to the OG Xbox). But to address your question, why someone would want to buy it, it would be for the games. If they could knock $100 off the price it would become much more attractive as a secondary console.
Click to expand...

You're combining two separate statements. "The Wii U is underpowered compared to PS4 and XB1" is one statement and "By loosing the gamepad it has no draw other than Nintendo games, and that was not enough of an advantage to save the gamecube" is another. I would like to append to that that the GC was also a cheaper SKU than the PS2 or Xbox, so people harping price price price, on what exactly are you basing this theory? It seems to me that the majority of you are looking for a way to make the Wii U palpable as a third place contender/second console purchase and I'm absolutely certain that that's not the goal Nintendo has in mind.
 
K

Koppai

Member
Nothing they do at this point is going to save the Wii U. They just need to ride it out for years and keep supporting it until their next console is released.
 
J

Justzisguyukno

Member
Its quite a catch 22 Nintendo has here...

Off-TV play is amazing, but making a game REQUIRE the gamepad would then most likely mean no off screen game play..

Nintendo just has to make that killer app, or money hat it
Why the fk don't they have Minecraft on the WiiU yet!
 
F

FlyinJ

Douchebag. Yes, me.
I just wish they would let me buy a goddamn game pad.

I was on the phone with them for like two hours trying to get them to sell me one.

Unfortunately they got me to tell them both my gamepad and console serial number, then they told me the only way they'd sell me one is if my pad was lost or stolen. I then immediately hung up, called back and told them it was stolen so they could sell me a new one, but they had all my serial # details and knew I just tried to buy one and refused to sell me one again.

Basically, the right stick on my game pad is dodgy, and they want me to mail it back to them then wait 2-3 weeks for them to repair it.

JUST SELL ME A NEW ONE.

And of course I can't just return the console to the store as I have four digital games on the system that I can't remove the save data from.

What is wrong with them.
 
J

JCX

Member
Magnus said:
I'm tethered to the same room, and looking at a screen that belongs in 2005. Tough sales pitch. Off play isn't a winner for me personally. I've tried and been put off within minutes numerous times.
Click to expand...

I'm complete opposite. I play PS4 and Wii U a bunch on remote play. I'd hate to see it go.
 
B

Bob White

Member
If they remove the Gamepad, it's just an under powered "next gen" console. A console with no 3rd party. I mean, that's really what it kinda already is. Taking the Gamepad away will just show that more.
 
M

Mushroomer25

Member
I think a rebranded, Gamepad-free SKU is the best way to solve the WiiU problem. If cutting the pad results in a box they can sell for under $200, with an impressive library of first-party software, they will be rediscovered by the mainstream audience. Move away from the WiiU name, set a date, and relaunch. Big ad push, coordinate the release of some new games (Mario Kart & Donkey Kong would work well as new "launch" titles), and start updating as many earlier games as possible to run Gamepad-free. ZombiU is going to be lost in the shuffle here, as well as the best possible version of Rayman Legends. But I'm increasingly convinced it's the only way.
 
H

Hiltz

Member
I think Nintendo won't do it but it's an interesting alternative solution since it would help solve some key issues but still present some problems while creating a few new ones too.

I also don't think Nintendo will bother making games for 2 GamePads. It's just not going to be practical even if the GamePad sells separately for as low as $99. The audience for such small software support (which really, would only come from Nintendo and not third parties) wouldn't really justify it. Obivously, this owuld be an even bigger hurdle if Nintendo were to replace the GamePad in the bundle with a Wii U CC Pro instead. No one is going to buy 2 GamePads for as little as $200.
 
M

mantidor

Member
Somnid said:
Everything hinges on the idea that Wii U is being killed by the Gamepad costs which I doubt is that likely. More likely accumulated technical debt and the need to create things that work on custom PPC architecture is what really costs them.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the gamepad has been gutted out by the likes of digital foundry and found to be really on the cheap side, it's a receiver plus a resistive screen.

People are basing the cost of the thing in what Nintendo charges for a replacement but that one is likely very overpriced for reasons that scape me, seriously, we have analysis of the pad itself, it's not expensive.

The likely real cost of the pad comes from the streaming hardware and software, which are inside the console anyway so dropping the pad won't save them money.
 
F

fernoca

Member
If they release a new SKU without the gamepad, they might as well redesign the system to look a bit different too. Like the 2DS, matte with a 2 color scheme; something that looks different in the box and not just "like a Wii".
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I still think it would cost Nintendo more than they would save.

And from a Wii U owner point of view, such a decision will reduce tremendously the value of the console I own, as I love the Gamepad and once it will become optional it will practically mean that most of the games won't use it (maybe not even for touch screen menus or off-screen) and that would reduce my enjoyment.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Interceptor said:
Why is it that the gamepad needs to be justified constantly? Even more important: Who decides whtat´s "justified"? Is the gpu in the ps4 "justified"? I can have the same game experiences with ps3 hardware - how dare they to rip me off for a new chip no one needs. This discussion is ridiculous. Even the examples are. Pikmin 3 as 101 as numerous others games profit in great ways from the gamepad? Have these journos even played Pikmin 3? And yet again, like in all the discussions before, one point is obiusly missed. Every.Single.Game. justifies the gamepad. How so? Just Miiverse incorporated on an OS level which would be impossible in its current form without the gamepad. And yes, i like my pad being a map and qick launch menu for items. Why is everone telling me this is not enough.?

Goddamn

(sorry for the small rant. There won´t be a padless version. get used to it.)
Click to expand...

Consumers decide. Consumers have decided that the increase cost for better graphical tech in the ps4 is justified by buyingn the shit out of that system, while they have also rejected the GamePad in the Wii U.
 
B

Briarios

Member
You want to save the Wii U? Nintendo needs to finally make a real Pokemon game for a home console. That would sell millions and at least give them time to create a better successor.
 
U

_underfooter

Banned
Mr-Joker said:
Playing The Wonderful 101 without the Gamepad would be damn annoying as it's needed in some part of the game and it's useful during the quick time events.

Nintendo won't drop the pad.
Click to expand...



Wonderful101 was a huge bomb, I doubt that will be a concern for their new SKU. They'd more likely be worried about NintendoLand and ZombiU.

I think the article is bang on. Nintendo should drop the Wii U gamepad and rename the system for a relaunch. Do it when Mario Kart and/or Smash comes out. If they launch both on the same day, I could handle a Mario Kart delay until May/June. Would be a good tactic. Wii U is dead and it's all over the news, all of my casual friends know that too.

Soft relaunch with pricedrop, rename/rebrand, new colours, and Smash/Kart on same day. That's what I would do.
 
Schnozberry

Schnozberry

Member
Nintendo has an image as a children's device, and the average game buyer in the US is over 30. You also have the issue of generatons of kids not growing up with the same attachment to Nintendo mascots. This issue has been building for years, and is not entirely the fault of the Wii U hardware. Nintendo has just not done a good enough job of changing their characters and mascots to follow the current of popular culture. I love Nintendo because they still make games that are amazingly fun to play, but when I talk to the younger kids in my extended family about what they play, they're not enamored with Mario and Zelda. It's Master Chief, Skylanders and Disney.

The kids like my daughter who play Super Mario 3D World obsessively are the ones whose parents are rubbing off on them.
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
icy_eagle said:
At this point, a 'gamecube all over again' situation, is actually what's expected and a positive things though



The sales numbers speak for themselves. People don't feel that the Wii U is worth a purchase at its current price. The easiest solution probably lies in cutting the Gamepad off and selling it separately.
Click to expand...

"Gamecube level" sales is a pipedream at the moment, it's tracking that badly.

And the only thing the sales numbers have said is that people don't feel that the Wii U is worth a purchase, full stop, the sales numbers do not, and cannot, give the reason for the lack of sales, that is your assumption, nothing else.

Everything now is just shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.

Wii U's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies!
'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig!
'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!
 
C

Carlisle

Member
The gamepad is such a fantastic controller. The few times devs have used it in conjuction with the TV display, it's been a small glimpse at some really cool potential interactivity. I wish more devs would just drop the idea that they have to support seamless off screen play and just go to town with all their wildest gamepad ideas. I could live with that, and then keep offscreen play for Virtual Console and indie ports.

But for the vast majority of Wii U releases, gamepad-unique features have been consistently optional. So at this rate, I'd rather see the Wii U at least get something out of not using the pad to its full potential, that something being a lower pricepoint, better sales, and more 3rd party support. As it is now, you can play most games without the gamepad anyway. Just release a pro controller sku, relegate the gamepad to an optional accessory, and change nothing about how Wii U games are made... all still support off screen play and have limited, optional gamepad specific features.

I hate to see people miss out on such a great controller, but I'd hate worse to see them miss out on such a great console.
 
S

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
For what it's worth, Wind Waker HD is an even better game played on the game pad than with the pro controller. Not having to switch to the inventory, dungeon map and especially sea charts is excellent.

I hope that WiiU Zelda makes similar use of it.
 
Z

zsidane

Member
The thing is, as long as only one Gamepad can be used with the Wii U, we will only have single player (or online multiplayer) games that uses the gamepad the way Zombi U does.

Having only one gamepad per Wii U is in my opinion the biggest mistake Nintendo have done during the design of the console. Every multiplayer game (like SM3DW) need to be developed with the Wiimote as the controler, thus limiting the use of the gamepad.

I love my gamepad, and I think it's great, but except Zombi U, no other game make it a must-have. I have faith that games like Metroid or Zelda can show that potential. Hope Nintendo already know that and they having (a lot of) things for 2014 to adress that.
 
3

3bdelilah

Banned
Yes, drop that shit already. It really hurts my eyes to see they just did it for the sake of innovation. Especially since they don't know what to do with it. Besides ZombiU, I really don't think a gamepad is REALLY necessary for a game. Like the article already states, there really isn't an added value for it. It just displays a little map, or a little progression bar and that's it. Drop the gamepad, thus make it cheaper, and keep releasing dem' beautiful games that are on the agenda.
 
A

AzaK

Member
Busaiku said:
How do the dual screened sections work in The Wonderful 101 without the GamePad?
Click to expand...
That game sold next to nothing and Nintendo published it. They could patch it or just leave it got current owners or those that buy the add on.
 
P

Ponn

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
Consumers decide. Consumers have decided that the increase cost for better graphical tech in the ps4 is justified by buyingn the shit out of that system, while they have also rejected the GamePad in the Wii U.
Click to expand...

Its less consumers rejecting it as much as they have not been given a reason to buy into it. People like to claim Nintendo is this purveyor of innovation but in reality there approach to pushing games is pretty lazy and simplistic. It worked with the Wii, throw some tech demos into a minigame collection and it sells to the casuals looking for quick party games. The problem with the Wii U gamepad is the tablet already has competition on the market and Nintendo has to push it to look unique. Its obvious they again took the lazy, simple route again with Nintendoland. They really should be looking to MS for inspiration on this one. As much as i dislke Kinect you have to give props to MS for standing behind it, ramming it dwn peoples throat and leaing the way in innovation in games and OS uses for it.

These quick armchair analysis of how to fix Wii U have been poorly thought out and would do Wii U more harm. People trying to come up with single magic bullet fixes when the Wii U is affected with a myriad of problems. Abandoning a huge key component of your system that set it apart from the rest to shave 50 bucks of the msrp is not going to drive people to the store to buy it nor change third parties problem with the sales and hardware. Nintendo has to bell up to table and really show some innovative use of the gamepad in games people want to play, things we havent seen before. They also need to actually do something with those early videos showing Skylanders type use of figures with the pad but with pokemon.

Hell, could you imagine a Wonderful 101 that was based off of Nintendo characters like originally planned but used Skylanders type of figures to collect of Nintendo characters. With continual DLC missions released with pack updates. How about a pokemon card game for Wii U using the pad in the vein of Eye of Judgment. This is gobs of money and excitement left on the table that can be unique to the gamepad.
 
M

Mzo

Member
My first impression after getting a Wii U this past holiday season was how weird it was that for 90% of the time I'm playing the gamepad is just mirroring what's on the TV.

Everyone loves off-TV play, but it kind of emphasizes the point that you don't need two screens.
 
K

Kiote

Member
I really don't know why these threads persist. We all know the only thing that is going to "Save" the Wii U. Games.

Everyone who is considering buying a Wii U is waiting for their "The Game" and everyone who is not considering buying a Wii U will only start considering a Wii U when there is finally a "The Game" they want announced.

No amount of Price Cuts and New SKUs are going to do anything for the system at this point. People buy Nintendo Consoles for Nintendo Games. There is no other reason.
 
M

Mushroomer25

Member
I think a rebranded, Gamepad-free SKU is the best way to solve the WiiU problem. If cutting the pad results in a box they can sell for under $200, with an impressive library of first-party software, they will be rediscovered by the mainstream audience. Move away from the WiiU name, set a date, and relaunch. Big ad push, coordinate the release of some new games (Mario Kart & Donkey Kong would work well as new "launch" titles), and start updating as many earlier games as possible to run Gamepad-free. ZombiU is going to be lost in the shuffle here, as well as the best possible version of Rayman Legends. But I'm increasingly convinced it's the only way.
 
P

pvpness

Member
Damn, not many people in this thread played NintendoLand huh? I see a bunch of people saying ZombiU is the only game that uses the gamepad.

Either way it doesn't matter as Nintendo is not going to drop the gamepad. There isn't a scenario that would make that a good idea.

They'll just ride it out armed with the knowledge that you can't sell a system on the back of local play anymore, regardless of how clever the implementation is.
 
C

chrominance

Member
Removing the gamepad removes one of the very few reasons to buy a Wii U. Without it, you're left with a console that does not definitively beat the 360 or PS3 in performance, and will never catch up to either in terms of game library. Assuming anyone buys previous-gen consoles for soft factors like the quality of online services or media functionality, the Wii U has next to no compelling features here either (and it's not clear how TVii, the only significant plus on this area for Nintendo, would work without a gamepad).

That leaves Nintendo games and price. Considering the 360 and PS3 will shortly enter the final stages of their retail lives, meaning massive discounts, it's unclear the Wii U could compete there even without the cost of the gamepad. That leaves Nintendo games as the sole compelling reason to buy one. Except that reason alone hasn't been enough to push sales of the Wii U as-is.

So basically, by removing the gamepad, Nintendo would be hoping that there's a massive untapped audience of highly price-conscious Nintendo lovers. If this business strategy seems sound to you, I have a bridge to sell you.

EDIT: I guess the real question, though, is whether a Wii U without a gamepad is still more palatable than a Wii U with a gamepad that doesn't really get much use, isn't compelling to consumers, and raises the price by $100. That's a lot harder to answer; it's hard to say if people just don't get how the gamepad might be used because Nintendo hasn't demonstrated any killer app for the gamepad, or if people just don't care about using it in the first place.
 
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