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Xbox 360 Premium HDMI version now available on Amazon

If I only waited a couple more weeks to buy my 360..

1st the Elite is announced for Europe... Now this my 360 feels inferior
 
Can someone explain to me why 65 nm is heralded as the holy grail? I'm not 100% sure what the causes of 360 failures are, but I find it specious logic to say that 65 nm is WAY OMG better than 90nm..
 
GhaleonEB said:
Later this fall, maybe even late this month, according to the last rumor I read.
Click to expand...

Why would they release a new SKU with HDMI and then go ahead and release a newer sku with the new chip. Every time they introduce a new chip they have to redo their manufacturing process. It costs money.
 
RiskyChris said:
Can someone explain to me why 65 nm is heralded as the holy grail? I'm not 100% sure what the causes of 360 failures are, but I find it specious logic to say that 65 nm is WAY OMG better than 90nm..
Click to expand...

Two words: Blast Processing

sonic_jackson.jpg
 
RiskyChris said:
Can someone explain to me why 65 nm is heralded as the holy grail? I'm not 100% sure what the causes of 360 failures are, but I find it specious logic to say that 65 nm is WAY OMG better than 90nm..
Click to expand...

I'm thinking people think 65nm = end of RROD which I myself hope is true.
 
MoeB said:
Why would they release a new SKU with HDMI and then go ahead and release a newer sku with the new chip. Every time they introduce a new chip they have to redo their manufacturing process. It costs money.
Click to expand...
I realize this. But this is just the same board as in the Elite model, with a 20 gb hdd and a white shell, not a brand new redesign. And I didn't respond with what I thought made sense, I responded with the last rumor I read. :p
 
RiskyChris said:
Can someone explain to me why 65 nm is heralded as the holy grail? I'm not 100% sure what the causes of 360 failures are, but I find it specious logic to say that 65 nm is WAY OMG better than 90nm..
Click to expand...

Moving to a 65nm production allows more transistors to be fitted into a much smaller area than the 90nm; this makse the overall cpu die size smaller in footprint, around 50%.

Having a smaller die produces less heat.

A combination of the second heatsink and the reduction in die size means the new 65nm Xbox 360 should be cooler and as a result, quieter in operation.

Oh and a huge benefit to the cpu manufacturer is cost reduction, having a smaller die size means they can fit more on the silicon wafer.
 
I'll answer it basically: the 90 nanometer CPU and GPU are putting out a fair amount of heat, that the 360 does not seem especially capable of removing through its fans or ventilation (part of the reason for the second heatsink, since the one heatsink was apparently unable to keep the hot processors from overheating or otherwise failing, causing the RROD; there's also an issue with clamps, but that's not familiar to me, so I'll leave that be). A 65 nanometer chip, which is smaller, will either put out less heat or will be easier to keep cool than their larger siblings.
 
MoeB said:
Why would they release a new SKU with HDMI and then go ahead and release a newer sku with the new chip. Every time they introduce a new chip they have to redo their manufacturing process. It costs money.
Click to expand...

The 65nm will not be a new SKU for retailers. It will be exact ffeatures of the current systems with cooler running chips. I think they had a bunch of left over elite boards and this is a great way to dump them asp.
 
Opus Angelorum said:
Moving to a 65nm production allows more transistors to be fitted into a much smaller area than the 90nm; this makse the overall cpu die size smaller in footprint, around 50%.

Having a smaller die produces less heat.

A combination of the second heatsink and the reduction in die size means the new 65nm Xbox 360 should be cooler and as a result, quieter in operation.
Click to expand...

I don't think a 65 nm is the solution. PS3 has a 90nm chip in there and it doesn't overheat or make a lot of noise like a 360 does. The problem is the design of the board and heatsinks not the 90nm chip.
 
MoeB said:
I don't think a 65 nm is the solution. PS3 has a 90nm chip in there and it doesn't overheat or make a lot of noise like a 360 does. The problem is the design of the board and heatsinks not the 90nm chip.
Click to expand...

And yet, Sony is interested in moving the Cell CPU to 65 nanometers, so they seem to think it's a solution as well as Microsoft.
 
Lo-Volt said:
And yet, Sony is interested in moving the Cell CPU to 65 nanometers, so they seem to think it's a solution as well as Microsoft.
Click to expand...
I thought Sony's PS3 already moved to 65nm.
 
MoeB said:
The problem is the design of the board and heatsinks not the 90nm chip.
Click to expand...

From the technical drawings I have seen of the board, the layout is fine. The problem with overheating arrises from the bad heatsink design, which was severly undersized for the idle operating temperatures of the Xenos(cpu).

HaloFans said:
I thought Sony's PS3 already moved to 65nm.
Click to expand...

They have been, however I think they will only start appearing in the 80Gb skus.
 
HaloFans said:
I thought Sony's PS3 already moved to 65nm.
Click to expand...

Maybe they did. Someone more well-versed in Sony's schedule could answer that, but I was under the assumption it was still in the cards for the near or otherwise foreseeable future. But the point remains that Sony and its partners are interested in scaling the Cell down just like any other set of CPU manufacturers and their clients.
 
Lo-Volt said:
And yet, Sony is interested in moving the Cell CPU to 65 nanometers, so they seem to think it's a solution as well as Microsoft.
Click to expand...

The reason why sony wants to move to 65 nm is because the cost of making those chips is less compared to the 90nm ones as they have less transistors on them. So the reason why sony wants those chips is to save money.
 
angelfly said:
I'm thinking people think 65nm = end of RROD which I myself hope is true.
Click to expand...

which is pretty dumb since these new hdmi 360s arent gonna have that problem

unless you think MS is gonna announce a 1bil charge and a 3 year warranty program then come out with more RROD prone units with HDMI or something

the issues been fixed its obvious.
 
lollerskates said:
which is pretty dumb since these new hdmi 360s arent gonna have that problem

unless you think MS is gonna announce a 1bil charge and a 3 year warranty program then come out with more RROD prone units with HDMI or something

the issues been fixed its obvious.
Click to expand...

we thought that elites were fixed but hey they broken down too. only time will tell.
 
Opus Angelorum said:
Moving to a 65nm production allows more transistors to be fitted into a much smaller area than the 90nm; this makse the overall cpu die size smaller in footprint, around 50%.

Having a smaller die produces less heat.

A combination of the second heatsink and the reduction in die size means the new 65nm Xbox 360 should be cooler and as a result, quieter in operation.

Oh and a huge benefit to the cpu manufacturer is cost reduction, having a smaller die size means they can fit more on the silicon wafer.
Click to expand...

I understand all the benefits of 65 nm, but why are people adverse to buying 90 nm models? MS wouldn't make new premiums with HDMI if they thought they were going to break still.
 
RiskyChris said:
I understand all the benefits of 65 nm, but why are people adverse to buying 90 nm models? MS wouldn't make new premiums with HDMI if they thought they were going to break still.
Click to expand...

It's not uncommon in electronics for people to want the latest and greatest model, even if they don't really understand the benefits. If people say something is better, and they can get it for the same price, they'll wait.
 
MoeB said:
we thought that elites were fixed but hey they broken down too. only time will tell.
Click to expand...

That's because launch Elites did not have the 2nd heatsink.

now they should all have it.
 
RiskyChris said:
Can someone explain to me why 65 nm is heralded as the holy grail? I'm not 100% sure what the causes of 360 failures are, but I find it specious logic to say that 65 nm is WAY OMG better than 90nm..
Click to expand...
As you shrink the transistors, you get cooler running chips. Going from 90nm to 65nm is a huge jump in that regard. RROD is heat related so logically 65nm will solve all the RRODs.

edit: way late with the response I guess. :lol
 
McDragon said:
That's because launch Elites did not have the 2nd heatsink.

now they should all have it.
Click to expand...

Correct.

It would be very expensive for Microsoft to go through existing stock in warehouses/stores and retrofit them with the second heatsink.

Shogmaster said:
RROD is heat related so logically 65nm will solve all the RRODs.
Click to expand...

It's fair to assume that, however a cool running processor is only as good as the heatsink sitting aloft.
 
McDragon said:
That's because launch Elites did not have the 2nd heatsink.

now they should all have it.
Click to expand...
A 2nd heatsink tacked on to the CPU heatsink (without a fucking fan attached) is like a fart in the wind.
 
Hey guys... not to discourage the astute 90nm vs. 65nm debate.
But I've got a question for you.

How many of you have had a dual-heatsink Zephyr-equipped 90nm Xbox crap out on you and need a repair?
 
So what is the advantage of the elite anymore besides the large hdd?

Also, when are they going to start selling the HDMI Premiums in stores?
 
MickeyKnox said:
A 2nd heatsink tacked on to the CPU heatsink (without a fucking fan attached) is like a fart in the wind.
Click to expand...

Not really, increasing the surface area of a heatsink (by adding a second in this instance) can have quite a dramatic effect even without the aid of a cooling fan. This assumes of course that the system itself has good airflow design.

Foolishfellow said:
So what is the advantage of the elite anymore besides the large hdd?
Click to expand...

It's black? HDMI cable.

Foolishfellow said:
Also, when are they going to start selling the HDMI Premiums in stores?
Click to expand...

I'd imagine the end of August, if the low stock of Premiums in stores is anything to go by.
 
Foolishfellow said:
So what is the advantage of the elite anymore besides the large hdd?

Also, when are they going to start selling the HDMI Premiums in stores?
Click to expand...

Elite comes with the optical dongle,hdmi cable and larger hard drive is the only things I can see.

Stores will have them as they sell out old stock. It seems all new shipments are the premium hdmi/second heatsink.
 
Foolishfellow said:
So what is the advantage of the elite anymore besides the large hdd?
Click to expand...

1) It comes with the HDMI cable included.
2) It's black and shiny.
3) You save $$ on the large ass hard drive.

That's about it.
 
B-Rad Lascelle said:
1) It comes with the HDMI cable included.
2) It's black and shiny.
3) You save $$ on the large ass hard drive.

That's about it.
Click to expand...
$100 for 120GB HDD, doesn't seem to be worth it to me..this might hot have been a good move for the Elite.
 
snack said:
$100 for 120GB HDD, doesn't seem to be worth it to me..this might hot have been a good move for the Elite.
Click to expand...

For those who download a lot of high def contents or have a receiver without HDMI input (and as a result have to pay extra to get the AV splitter + HDMI cable), it makes sense to get an Elite.
 
snack said:
$100 for 120GB HDD, doesn't seem to be worth it to me..this might hot have been a good move for the Elite.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that the 120 gigs HDD is 180$ alone.
 
McDragon said:
Keep in mind that the 120 gigs HDD is 180$ alone.
Click to expand...

Exactly. If someone buys an Elite, they're getting a 120GB HDD for the price of 20GB HDD ($100).

Edit: And the difference between a Core and a Premium is $70 more for:

*wireless controller instead of wired
*component/composite cable instead of composite
*free ($20) wired headset
*20GB HDD ($100)

God, the Core is such a rip-off.
 
RPS37 said:
Exactly. If someone buys an Elite, they're getting a 120GB HDD for the price of 20GB HDD ($100).

Edit: And the difference between a Core and a Premium is $70 more for:

*wireless controller instead of wired
*component/composite cable instead of composite
*free ($20) wired headset
*20GB HDD ($100)

God, the Core is such a rip-off.
Click to expand...

And yet MS loses the most money on the core... or atleast they used to...

Extra costs wirelesscontroller? 5 to 8 bucks in parts...
Cable? 2 or 3$
Headset? 2$
20GB HD? 35$

Lets say 50$ on extra component costs...

All is guestimation ofcourse. (And yes cables cost shit to make, they are gold in the retail market)

Btw, more on topic: Amazon is freaking brilliant. Taking a little loss on the older stock and selling them at 330, so they can get the new HDMI versions quicker... which should be more popular.
 
I asked this in the other thread but Ill give it a shot in this thread.Assuming there are NOT going to be any more OLD (non HDMI) 360 premiums and I have an order in with Amazon, do you think by default that they will cover the order with the NEW model or do they source to thier partners, i.e.J&R Musicworlld?
 
JCBossman said:
I asked this in the other thread but Ill give it a shot in this thread.Assuming there is NOT going to be anymore OLD (non HDMI) 360 premium and I have an order in with Amazon, do you think by default that they will cover the order with the NEW model or do they source to thier partners, i.e.J&R Musicworlld?
Click to expand...

No clue. But I would guess they would just send the new model.
 
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