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Culdcept SAGA - interesting but loooooong

J

Jonnyram

Member
I forewent Jeanne d'Arc in favour of Culdcept SAGA this week. It's my first Culdcept and I like the game style very much indeed - kind of pokemon versus monopoly. You shake a dice, move around a board, then put monsters down and collect money if your opponent loses to them. Reach a certain amount of money and get to "GO!" (i.e. the castle), and you win.

I got totally owned in the tutorial, and then understood how the game works and I've won the next three games. But GODDAMN does this game suck away time. An hour or so per stage right now, and that will undoubtedly increase as the amount of money needed to win is increasing all the time.

Achievements-wise it looks interesting - collect all cards of different types, have a family of monsters on the board at once, that kind of thing. But only the hardcore need apply. After five hours of play, I haven't even got the first achievement (worth a measly 5 pts). I should get it with another hour or so, but still...

For people with time on their hands, this looks like a dream. All the voices are in English, so you can understand the story (if you really want to), but card descriptions and other text are in Japanese. Oh yeah, and NeoGAF's own john tv and fenegi worked on the English translation, so props to them!
 
A

Acosta

Member
I love this type of games, but sadly is japanese (so is not region free). I will have to wait a european launch (if such thing happens).
 
B

bloke

Member
Have you tried online fighting? Wondering whether there'll be more of proper game story this time around like they promised.
 
J

Jonnyram

Member
Music: yeah, it's awesome. It needs to be to see you through these long battles.
Online: haven't tried yet. Technically, the game's not out until Weds, but I got it early. Also I want to boost my deck a bit before trying online, and work out how the status effect stuff works. I'm still learning the ropes, basically.
 
M

Musashi Wins!

FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
I can't believe this game has a sequel. I'm so goddamn excited. This is my nerdy killer app. Probably 500 people buy it here.
 
Dr. Kitty Muffins

Dr. Kitty Muffins

Member
Based from the PS2 older version:

Game sesssions can be made shorter depending on your deck and the deck of your opponents.

Die rolls can influence it alot too.
 
M

manji

Member
I cut session time WAY down with a few key movement cards...once you're able to roll 2 dice, or move 6-10 spaces at a time, $$$ pours in and everything gets sped way up.

That said...I still averaged between 20-40 minutes a game.
 
T

Tsubaki

Member
Musashi Wins! said:
I can't believe this game has a sequel. I'm so goddamn excited. This is my nerdy killer app. Probably 500 people buy it here.
Click to expand...

Well, you do know that the PS2 Culdcept you played is actually the sequel to the Sega Saturn/Playstation Culdcept, right? They just dropped the II/Second from the title for the US release.
 
H

Harmonica

Member
icecream said:
Urge...to kill...rising...
Click to expand...

I was about to ask the same question, then I saw your response, and the question was answered.

Why is your urge to kill rising? Because the information he asked is SOOOOOOOO obvious?

Don't be a pee pee head to people who aren't as enlightened as you.
 
D

Danj

Member
Did any of the Culdcept games get released in the UK? I ask because Socrates the Game Criticism Robot on videoGaiden season 2 episode 3 (the one that just aired this past Sunday) was recommending it, but I can't seem to find it listed on any UK online stores...
 
I

icecream

Public Health Threat
Harmonica said:
Why is your urge to kill rising? Because the information he asked is SOOOOOOOO obvious?

Don't be a pee pee head to people who aren't as enlightened as you.
Click to expand...
Yeah, probably because everyone asks that everytime a Culdcept Saga thread is bumped or created, sometimes even in the same thread where it was answered a page or so back. Excuse me.

If people can remember that other Japanese games like Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, and Infinite Undiscovery are coming to the US, they can at least try to remember this one as well. :/
 
J

Jonnyram

Member
Well I don't have double dice at the moment, so that's a bit of a bummer. I love the "haste" card, that lets you roll only 8-10 for two turns.

So the last game I played was the final part of the tutorial, I think. It was Colosseum part III and I had two enemies for the first time. The goal was 8000G, and I think it must have taken close to 3 hours. For a long time I thought I was screwed, then my luck picked up a bit and I turned the game around totally. Getting the right monsters on the right squares can really put you in a good position, and when you get a strip of the same colour, you're in a really strong position - lots of money and good bonus stats.

Forgot to mention, but the artwork on the cards is reallllly nice. All the artists' names are mentioned in the deck catalogue. I also like the way the different attacks leave different tears or holes in the cards, such as a tiger will leave three diagonal scratches or an ogre will punch a hole. Simple, but nice.
 
J

john tv

Member
Jonnyram said:
Well I don't have double dice at the moment, so that's a bit of a bummer. I love the "haste" card, that lets you roll only 8-10 for two turns.

So the last game I played was the final part of the tutorial, I think. It was Colosseum part III and I had two enemies for the first time. The goal was 8000G, and I think it must have taken close to 3 hours. For a long time I thought I was screwed, then my luck picked up a bit and I turned the game around totally. Getting the right monsters on the right squares can really put you in a good position, and when you get a strip of the same colour, you're in a really strong position - lots of money and good bonus stats.

Forgot to mention, but the artwork on the cards is reallllly nice. All the artists' names are mentioned in the deck catalogue. I also like the way the different attacks leave different tears or holes in the cards, such as a tiger will leave three diagonal scratches or an ogre will punch a hole. Simple, but nice.
Click to expand...
Yeah, all of this is present in the PS2 version as well. The 360 version is just cleaner, looks nicer, and of course supports Xbox Live (which rocks).

Once you get used to the rules and start to feel more comfortable, you'll find yourself pressing the buttons to skip through things as quickly as possible in an effort to speed games along. They do take a while, like you say, but fortunately you can quick-save in the middle of any game and come back to it later.
 
M

manji

Member
heh...I <3 u icecream...
...even if you are a pee-pee head :lol

sorry, I'm just anxious 'bout the game...you can take it out on me over XBL once it's released :)
 
M

manji

Member
Shouta said:
This is making me want to go back to the PS2 Culdcept. Hmmm...
Click to expand...
Yup, I'm in the same boat...never actually beat it, but I'm pretty damn close, from what I hear.Gonna be a bit weird, starting over with a basic deck...but fun...I can't wait.

Wonder how much the friends list is gonna grow, once all the Culdcept freaks really get up and running. I'd bet less than 20% of my current list would actually *play* Culdcept, or anything remotely like it.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
john tv said:
Yeah, all of this is present in the PS2 version as well. The 360 version is just cleaner, looks nicer, and of course supports Xbox Live (which rocks).

Once you get used to the rules and start to feel more comfortable, you'll find yourself pressing the buttons to skip through things as quickly as possible in an effort to speed games along. They do take a while, like you say, but fortunately you can quick-save in the middle of any game and come back to it later.
Click to expand...

What are the button shortcuts? I didn't really see any but I guess I wasn't looking all too hard.

Also when I tried to go online it wanted me to load my story save + story deck. When I told it no (since I've only done one map and have like no cards) it booted me back to the title screen. Does this mean you can't play online with a random deck? Otherwise players who are 10-20 hours into the main story will destroy starting players since they'll have waay better decks. [EM] got around this with random deck games, I'm hoping Culdacept does as well?

Otherwise I really like it. Never played the older ones because I couldn't find them, so just learning the ropes but it's very enjoyable. Graphics are nice for what it is. I like the way the cards fight. Dub is ummm...no comment, I'm sorta skipping all the story scenes ^^;
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
So I thought I should share an account of my evening.

1. After a few hours of playing I reached the final map of the tutorial/first dungeon that jonnyram was talking about and I played about an hour and a half and then quicksaved so I could go out for the night.

2. Got back around 12, loaded my quicksave.

3. Played another hour (so total of 2:30 for the map) and then LOST with a single screwup at the very end (went from 8000 -> 3000 points while the enemy did the opposite as they passed the goal). Real quick I hit the power in an attempt to see if MAYBE just MAYBE it hadn't erased my quicksave when I loaded it.

4. Luckily it hadn't! So at around 1, I gave it another shot. Got about 45 mins in (so 2:15 total) and then one of the cpu messed up on the others trap and that one SUDDENLY WON >_<...RESET

5. At around 1:45, going for the 3rd attempt...around 2:30...LOSE...RESET

6. Fourth attempt started around 2:30...3:15 FINALLY WIN THE GODDAMN MAP, DAMN YOU AIIIIIIII!

If it was any other game I would have given up after wasting several hours with no progress, but Culdcept X360 is awesome and one of the most addicting games I've played all year. But the single player is bullshit. 3 hour maps where you can suddenly have the tables turned and LOSE at the last minute when you were in the lead is ****ed up design. There is hard and there is "I have a life, I could've been doing something with those three hours".

Anyhow, Multiplayer with people (online and off) fixes this problem because you're not trying to accomplish anything in the first place, just have fun with friends so even if you lose out you still had fun.

My only issue is I still don't know how the game or if the game allows players to build their card collection from multiplayer only. Because if every person has to go through 200 hours of single player to get a deck that matches other players...well I think that would kill the online community.

IF online gives all players new cards after each match, I think this is the next Phantom Dust for sure.



Oh and the AI is pretty cheap. On reloading my quicksave, each time I noticed the dice rolls would be identical no matter when you pressed the button (hmmm) and the cpu will do stuff like suddenly make their monster 2 blocks ahead of you worth tons of money one turn before you roll a 2 and land on it without anything on hand to fight it. Cpu also rolls a hell of a lot of 8s, 7s, 6s; while you seem to 1-7s. AI reminds me of Itadaki street but slightly less cheap. Japanese AI design for these boards games is really really frustrating and annoying. >_<
 
intheinbetween

intheinbetween

Member
i got Culdcept Saga two days ago, and it's pretty nice. anyway i'm still on the third table, and yeah, every table took about 40-60 minutes if you're new to this kind of game, but it rocks. i was wondering if anyone has been able to get the translation of the main options, because, yeah, it's pretty nice listening to the dialogues to be able to know what's the story about, but i'd prefer english subs and japanese voices =P, i know i know it's obvious

to those who have played this game, is there something i should do to use other cards? i'm still using the first ones
 
J

Jonnyram

Member
OK then, a brief bit of translation help for you.

On the main game menu, headed "&#12471;&#12473;&#12486;&#12512;" (system), there are the following options:
- go to the next stage
- book management
- change book
- change parts
- maintenance
- past stages
- save
- return to title

You decide your deck with "book management", so let's click on that for starters:
- default book
- new book 2
- new book 3
etc...

then on the right side it says "last edited: yyyy/mm/dd hh:mm" followed on the next line by "wins/battles" - these wins/battles are from this book with the current settings, i believe, so if you edit your book, you'll start from 0.

You cannot go to the next stage if you have too many cards in your deck. 50 is the max, at least at the start of the game. I have no idea if that changes later. So click on "default book" for the next part:
- edit
- change book cover
- change profile
- copy
- change name
- revert to default
- return

I guess profile is a brief description of that book for your own purposes. I've never tried it. I presume the covers are purely aesthetic also. So click on "edit". You'll get a list of 10 display options, followed by a list of the current cards in your deck. In case you haven't figured it out by now, there are creature cards, item cards and spell cards. Spell cards are used before your turn, creature cards are placed on squares or used in battles and item cards are given to your creatures when battling.

Along the top of the options, you have:
Creatures (all), Creatures (no element), Creatures (fire), Creatures (water), Creatures (grass), Creatures (earth) and Creatures (elemental).

Next line you have:
Items, Spells, NEW cards (i.e. cards you won last battle), All cards, Catalogue and Exit

When you click on a card, there is a big number displayed. Push up to increase the number of that card in your deck, and down to decrease. The number of cards in your deck is displayed in the top right of the screen and says "OK" if it's ok to go to the next stage.

Hope that's enough help for now. I'd like to work on translating card rules if I have chance, but there's soooooo many (482 cards in the catalogue!), I dunno where I should start. Oh, OK... just one for now.

&#20808;&#21046; - a card with this in the description will be able to attack first, even if it is the defending card of a square you land on. If an attacking card has this, they will attack first, even if the defending card has this. That's probably the single most important card rule I've found so far :)
 
intheinbetween

intheinbetween

Member
^woot!!! thank you so much, that's really helpful =)

with that translation i've been able to create my own deck, so thank you so much for your help. could you please translate any of the given option in the table?

thank you so much again
 
B

Blimblim

The Inside Track
Thanks a lot Jonnyram, I was going to ask for this exact same thing :)
I've received the game today (along with that ho so average DOAX2), I did not manage to win the tutorial stage yet, but I think I've mostly understood how everything works.
At least I should be able to do some nice videos.
I think the game doesn't look as bad as I thought it would, at least it's got a good art direction and it helps a lot.
Edit: I have one question though, how's the first attack decided during a fight?
 
V

Vandiger

Member
Damn you people, I'm so jealous if there is any game that makes me spend hours playing its Culdcept. Oh yeah does Old Man Willow or Kelpie still kill the AI? :D
 
S

Speevy

Banned
I really hope they've done something to tone down Old Willow. It's pretty much game over most of the time when you play him.

As a matter of fact, AI using creature destruction targets OTHER stuff when you have him in their path.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
Blimblim said:
Edit: I have one question though, how's the first attack decided during a fight?
Click to expand...

Seems to me like the attacker always gets first attack unless the defender's inherent special ability gives first attack or the defender uses an item for first attack.
 
intheinbetween

intheinbetween

Member
Bebpo said:
Seems to me like the attacker always gets first attack unless the defender's inherent special ability gives first attack or the defender uses an item for first attack.
Click to expand...


yeah, i'm pretty sure almost the 90% of the times, the one who attacks strikes first, maybe there's some kind of card that enables you to strike first whenever you're attacking or defending..

well i managed my own deck and now the games use to be shorter than using the default deck, so thank u again heh
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
intheinbetween said:
yeah, i'm pretty sure almost the 90% of the times, the one who attacks strikes first, maybe there's some kind of card that enables you to strike first whenever you're attacking or defending..

well i managed my own deck and now the games use to be shorter than using the default deck, so thank u again heh
Click to expand...

Btw, what's your gamertag?

It'd be nice to form a mini-gaf playing group until the US version is out, as the AI is sorta annoying and I don't think there's any satisfaction of playing against a Japanese player you don't know.

From this thread it looks like myself, you, blimblim, and jonnyram are the only ones with the game atm. So maybe we can exchange gamertags and set a good time once a week or so to play a game?

Bebpojp - good most weekends.
 
J

john tv

Member
I have it too, just don't have a J-360 yet. But I'm planning to get one before Blue Dragon hits, so I should be able to join you guys soon. :)
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
john tv said:
I have it too, just don't have a J-360 yet. But I'm planning to get one before Blue Dragon hits, so I should be able to join you guys soon. :)
Click to expand...

Cool! I look forward to playing!

Glad Blue Dragon is coming out soon. Should drive up the Culdcept playing crew by a few members ;P
 
J

Jonnyram

Member
Besides &#20808;&#21046; (sensei), which makes you attack first, even if you are defending, there is also &#24460;&#25163; (gote), which makes you attack last, even if you are on the offense.
 
B

Blimblim

The Inside Track
Bebpo said:
Seems to me like the attacker always gets first attack unless the defender's inherent special ability gives first attack or the defender uses an item for first attack.
Click to expand...
Ok, that's what I thought but I wanted to be sure. Thanks!
Really nice game, I like it a lot. I'll try to join some online game as soon as a I have a decent deck.
 
intheinbetween

intheinbetween

Member
Bebpo said:
Btw, what's your gamertag?

It'd be nice to form a mini-gaf playing group until the US version is out, as the AI is sorta annoying and I don't think there's any satisfaction of playing against a Japanese player you don't know.

From this thread it looks like myself, you, blimblim, and jonnyram are the only ones with the game atm. So maybe we can exchange gamertags and set a good time once a week or so to play a game?

Bebpojp - good most weekends.
Click to expand...


my gamertag is: ZangetsuBankai

it would be pretty cool to form a group to play, heh
 
O

Orodreth

Member
Danj said:
I asked this a few posts back too, haven't seen an answer yet...
Click to expand...

Been looking for info and searched on some european shops but found nothing. Maybe it was only released in Northamerica.
 
I

Ignis

Member
Nope, the PS2 version hasn't been released here in Europe. :/
NEC Entertainment going bankrupt didn't help things, though...
It's a pity as the game is really addictive, though quite "niche".
It may have sold a few copies over here had it been released.
 
B

Blimblim

The Inside Track
I've been playing this game again this afternoon to record a "first 10 minutes" and finally managed to win the first fight. I guess I mostly have the hang of it now. Totally enjoyable game, so much depth :)
I'll have the whole first fight (minus 5 boring minutes, so 30 minutes) online later tonight. It's really worth watching to get a better idea of how the game works.
 
O

Orodreth

Member
Blimblim said:
I'll have the whole first fight (minus 5 boring minutes, so 30 minutes) online later tonight. It's really worth watching to get a better idea of how the game works.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I would like to get it now but the texts in japanese dont help and i think i better wait for a US release and see if its region free.
 
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