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QTEs are NOT cinematic

But why even have it be a QTE? The buttons popping up on screen in that sequence made the whole fight cinematic than it would have been had it just been a straight cut scene.

The alternative is that you mash buttons randomly, and have no visual que or feedback to when a scene is supposed to switch angles, show a different close up, change focus, when or where you pressed the right or wrong thing and so on. The QTE is actually what gives the sequence a sense of direction and place, and as mentioned, allow it to be more cinematic.

Remember, typical melee combat segments in games do not offer the kind of cinematic angles, close ups, and combat alternatives that sequences such as these offer.
 
The alternative is that you mash buttons randomly, and have no visual que or feedback to when a scene is supposed to switch angles, show a different close up, change focus, when or where you pressed the right or wrong thing and so on. The QTE is actually what gives the sequence a sense of direction and place.

I guess it's just a disagreement we have then, because to me the button prompt becomes the focal point and lessens the impact of what's going on in the rest of the scene, and therefore negatively affects the sense of direction and place.

I think there's a solution that hasn't been figured out yet. I haven't played Beyond Two Souls, but supposedly they have a novel way of handling QTEs that removes the on-screen clutter.
 
I guess it's just a disagreement we have then, because to me the button prompt becomes the focal point and lessens the impact of what's going on in the rest of the scene, and therefore negatively affects the sense of direction and place.

The prompt definitely becomes a focus, sure, but not necessarily the only focus. It being a focus at all is a game design decision, to allow the gamer to know that he is facing a particular decision or set of choices in that very instance. Something you might not pick up on were the prompt missing altogether.
 
I think maybe I was mixing that quote up with this quote, which very much leads me to believe that they wish they were making a movie instead of a game:
" We make games, we can't get around it." God, I hate that he said that.

I hate how much that simple quote gets twisted for malicious forum war purposes.
 
Cinema doesn't have colored button prompts appear on the screen.

I remember seeing a 3D film with a prompt to put your glasses on whenever a 3D section of film was about to begin. Can't remember what film it was but it was back when I was a kid so maybe it was Spy Kids or something. I also remember there being colorful prompts for the Aroma-Scope sections of the Rugrats Go Wild film.

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It's not unheard-of in cinema.

Fake edit: Looks like it was used again in the new Spy Kids film.

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It's a pretty damning quote. What exactly is being twisted?

“I think story and visuals are very high. Gameplay is something that… it’s a game, we make games, we can’t get around it. We love games, but we also love telling stories, so I think story is always going to be at the top because it’s what we start with. It’s at the top of the pyramid and everything else supports that. I think it’d be more challenging to make a game for the gameplay’s sake, then try to make a story that fits in there.”


I am beginning to feel like people are being purposefully obtuse when it comes to this quote.
 
I hate QTE's and actively try to avoid games which have too many of them, button prompts are fine with me but too many "cinematic" sequences which involve timed button pressings are more than enough to put me off a game
 
“I think story and visuals are very high. Gameplay is something that… it’s a game, we make games, we can’t get around it. We love games, but we also love telling stories, so I think story is always going to be at the top because it’s what we start with. It’s at the top of the pyramid and everything else supports that. I think it’d be more challenging to make a game for the gameplay’s sake, then try to make a story that fits in there.”


I am beginning to feel like people are being purposefully obtuse when it comes to this quote.

The full quote doesn't really help your cause from what I'm seeing. They start with the story because they think it would be too challenging to start with the gameplay. Gameplay is secondary to them. The fact that they makes games is something they "can't get around", implying they wish they could get around it. It's no surprise that people don't like that they said this and it's no surprise that people use it against them.
 
I don't like most QTEs. I don't even like them very much in the God of War games, aside from a few examples. However, I actually didn't mind them in Heavy Rain. I seem to recall that game having a couple of clever uses for them to replicate the kind of difficulty of a given situation. Like in the trial Ethan has to go through where he has to climb through that maze of electric stuff without getting electrocuted. It makes you slowly hold down a bunch of buttons, one by one up to something like three at a time. Then you have to release one while adding on another. You have to be very careful with your finger placements, and very patient, which is a pretty good way to replicate what's happening on screen; Ethan is very carefully trying to get his body through these small gaps in the electric current (or whatever) one bodypart at a time.

I didn't have a big problem with the other QTEs either. They seem to hold a similar philosophy as Asura's wrath, only the Heavy Rain characters are doing much more mundane actions, which I guess people don't really like. That said, games that are QTEs throughout their entirety really wear me out. I usually take cutscenes as moments where I can sit back and relax. If I've got to be constantly alert for button prompts, it's just the opposite. Can be very engaging though.
 
I like QTEs in games designed around them. Yes, like Heavy Rain. I enjoy it a lot, if it's a good game ('Beyond' much less because I didn't enjoy the story).
 
I think that the core problem is that developing good combat (and I know that there are plenty of non-combat QTEs, but I'm reasonably sure they make up the majority) requires limitations. You can do this, you can't do that. If you're almighty, what's the point?

But those constructive limitations are destructive to more traditional story telling, which requires stuff like specific camera angles and, well, variation in activities. Sure, you could come up with a set of more-or-less one off mechanics for a specific scene, like a set of melee controls for when you character loses their weapon in an FPS and is forced to struggle with an attacker to get it back, but not only is that wasteful in terms of resources, it's also difficult to get right enough to avoid running into water level syndrome, where a sudden gameplay change pisses off your playerbase. QTEs are a comfortable middlepoint.

That said, there is a problem with QTEs, namely: overuse. Not every sequence requires player input (press F to pay your respects!). It's okay, we're used to cutscenes.
 
I think Devil May Cry 4 had probably the best use of QTE's I have seen. They don't function like QTE's exactly, but they are basically one button QTE's that mechanically work as grabs. It doesn't interrupt gameplay flow much at all and you are still in control of things like your Devil Trigger (which you can activate for extra damage and attacks) and the camera for most of them. Weak enemies can be grabbed a ton without resistance but the attacks for them aren't as flashy. The harder and more dangerous the enemy, the more flashy the Devil Bringer grab will be. Strong enemies and bosses need a stagger/guard break to do this on, and there is no buttons indicating that you can do one, you just have to notice the boss stagger or be exposed to do it. If you can pull it off on a boss, you can do some amazing looking attacks that feel like you earned the damage you are doing instead of simple free damage.
 
QTE's give the perfect cinematic experience for me. I completely block out whatever is going on in the background and focus solely on those buttons. "The plot twist in the last cutscene was Q, X, triangle, square!"
 
I didn't mind them in Ryse with the coloured outline of enemies, but in general OP I agree they always break immersion for me. Drives me nuts.
 
Personally, I think developers should take the time to teach the player the rules of the game such that they don't need these arbitrary mechanics or rather, the prompts. This style of QTE is basically just a way of cramming a scenario into the game that doesn't fit the established gameplay. In the video the guy talks about how they want to use a different camera angle to get the player closer to the characters during the action, but in that case, you could have put something in the first level that teaches 'when the camera is taken away from you, you may have to react to things'. Then, another thing is consistency. If there is one thing I like about Assassin's Creed, it's the fact that each button is assigned to a limb. You could apply something similar here. 'In these sections, the X button interacts with objects, the B button does this, etc etc'

My example isn't great because I thought of it on the spot, but my point is if the gameplay follows established consistent rules even during low interactivity sections then there would be no need for these prompts.
 
We have to define cinematic first. Then define what qualifies as a cinematic game given x characteristics.

The word is thrown around a lot with little weight - these days it's demeaning to an extent to be attached to the word.

Naturally, the word cinematic went wrong when it started becoming a PR marketing buzzword. It has now evolved into a demeaning and at times negatively perceived word in gaming.

Exihibit A:

Cinematic associations = little-to-no gameplay, lack of gameplay, bad gameplay, 30fps, excuses, graphics only, linear, boring, no substance, QTE's....etc etc etc.

I mean people are going to be people, and things like this stick even if it makes no sense....people shouldn't bother. Just wait for the wave to pass, it takes years sometimes. I've already noticed that PR from some publishers has changed to reflect the ongoing trend of negativity associated with the word. However, there are still a few not up to the times and suffer because of their ignorance.
 
I remember in the early 90s the 'cinematic' label was used for games like point and click adventures to market the quality of their storytelling. In the late 90s action, FPS, or RPG games might have been called cinematic for similar reasons - engaging storytelling (like Half-Life or Deus Ex), often assisted by great cutscenes that didn't detract from the gameplay itself.

At some point calling a game cinematic switched from meaning it had great storytelling like you'd expect in a movie to meaning the game itself was "like a movie", e.g. the player watching rather than playing. QTEs are more or less the embodiment of the latter, balancing the need to have the player feel like they have control of the game and the desire to appeal to the widest possible range of customers.
 
The worst part of QTEs is that I'm way more focused on locating the next button prompt than I am on the action. So yeah I agree; they're anti-cinematic.
 
I agree it breaks the immersion . Maybe a way to do it would be with haptic feedback. I m not sure if the controllers now have rumble but say if rumble and its directionality/intensity/periodicness woudl indicate what i need to do that would be a good way to get the point across without it showing up on screen.

Instead of seeing ram x ten times on screen instead i feel the controller rumble in short bursts it means x ... continuous rumbling means press o ... I feel like a genius right now. I was like yeah good point how to tackle this and I came up with this idea in a minute. Hire me game devs.
 
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Asura's Wrath along with a lot of other CyberConnect2 titles are the only games that I believe do QTEs right. If you're going to have them, make those scenarios fucking cool.

I'm more immersed in the QTEs Asura's Wrath delivered than literally any other game with the damn things, because Asura's Wrath is fucking cool.
First post nailed it.

CC2 is the only developer who knows how to do good QTEs. That
Sasuke Vs Naruto
fight in Storm 3 put anime to shame.
 
Did the same folks who made Asura's Wrath also make some Naruto games? I've never played a Naruto game before

Yeah I've never paid attention to the Naruto games but this thread got me to put NARUTO SHIPPUDEN: Ultimate Ninja STORM 3 Full Burst (could that title be longer?) on my wish list.
 
I actually haven't tried Beyond:Two Souls. I was just basing my assumption on Heavy Rain. How do they circumvent the issue in Beyond?
But in Heavy Rain they are not really disembodied. They are actually 3D objects floating around in the 3D space of the game and are usually placed at the point you are looking at anyway (arm, leg, a weapon etc.). I thought it helped the immersion a great deal.
 
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