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Solid Samus · Sep 13, 2015

For those of you who are still on the fence regarding the PC version of Batman: Arkham Knight, a band-aid patch has recently hit the platform, improving performance reasonably from what I can tell - and the comprehensive fix patch should be coming toward the end of the year, maybe much sooner if the recent update leak is any indication. With that said, if you intended to get the game when it was finally fixed, be aware that there's been a couple of chances lately to get the game damn cheap. I was originally going to post a deal I found for Arkham Knight + Harley Quinn DLC for $10, but I realized it was out of stock. If it comes back in stock while that price is still active, I'll make sure to post a link. For now, go to Slickdeals and look for Batman: Arkham Knight Premium Edition (Season Pass + Harley Quinn DLC + 52 Skin Pack) for $18.72, not a bad price if you're planning on waiting 'til the game is finished or you want to fuck around and see if it'll run on your PC to your satisfaction right now. Comment section of the site I picked up this deal off of vouches for the key dealer here.

Wario64 · Sep 13, 2015

Why the hell did you hide the links in quotes? Cause it's cdkeys?

Soulflarz · Sep 13, 2015

Wario64 said:
Why the hell did you hide the links in quotes? Cause it's cdkeys?

.

Isnt CDKeys shady as hell also?

LewieP · Sep 13, 2015

Linking to CD key resellers are against the rules for neogaf (although I see plenty of discussion/linking to them for buying Xbox Live/PS+ subscriptions/credit).

CDkeys.com have an excellent track record for customer service. I'd encourage anyone to purchase from them without hesitation if they are offering the best price for something you want to buy, which is the case for Arkham Knight on PC.

In fact, WB won't even let you buy it from anywhere but the secondary market.

I don't really understand why there is such a stigma for CD key resellers, but not (for example) eBay, preowned games from highstreet/online retailers, or other similar examples of the secondary market.

Solid Samus · Sep 13, 2015

LewieP said:
Linking to CD key resellers are against the rules for neogaf (although I see plenty of discussion/linking to them for buying Xbox Live/PS+ subscriptions/credit).

CDkeys.com have an excellent track record for customer service. I'd encourage anyone to purchase from them without hesitation if they are offering the best price for something you want to buy, which is the case for Arkham Knight on PC.

In fact, WB won't even let you buy it from anywhere but the secondary market.

I don't really understand why there is such a stigma for CD key resellers, but not (for example) eBay, preowned games from highstreet/online retailers, or other similar examples of the secondary market.

Well shit, I didn't know that. I'll just state the source instead, if that's okay.

Wario64 said:
Why the hell did you hide the links in quotes? Cause it's cdkeys?

Honestly, I don't know. I guess I thought I'd be doing GAF a service by linking to members only because there's likely not a lot of keys to go around but it's a bit of a dick move I suppose

FloppyDelux · Sep 13, 2015

LewieP said:
Linking to CD key resellers are against the rules for neogaf (although I see plenty of discussion/linking to them for buying Xbox Live/PS+ subscriptions/credit).

CDkeys.com have an excellent track record for customer service. I'd encourage anyone to purchase from them without hesitation if they are offering the best price for something you want to buy, which is the case for Arkham Knight on PC.

In fact, WB won't even let you buy it from anywhere but the secondary market.

I don't really understand why there is such a stigma for CD key resellers, but not (for example) eBay, preowned games from highstreet/online retailers, or other similar examples of the secondary market.

Tha'ts good, I see they also have MadMax for $17

epmode · Sep 13, 2015

LewieP said:
I don't really understand why there is such a stigma for CD key resellers, but not (for example) eBay, preowned games from highstreet/online retailers, or other similar examples of the secondary market.

Some sites use stolen keys. Keys purchased with stolen credit cards and the like.

Syrus · Sep 13, 2015

Bought 12 month xbox livw for 30$ from them friday. Good til january 2018

LewieP · Sep 13, 2015

epmode said:
Some sites use stolen keys. Keys purchased with stolen credit cards and the like.

Whereas the other instances of secondary markets I discussed have a 100% track record of never ever being used to trade stolen/fraudulent obtained goods?

To tar an entire sector of the industry with the brush of "they are trafficking in stolen goods" without presenting evidence that any specific retailers are knowingly and routinely involved in the trade of stolen goods is utterly baffling to me.

As I said, CDkeys.com have a great track record for customer service. Better than many authorised retailers.

dh4niel · Sep 13, 2015

So, if I bought the game now via a site like CDkeys I can download this patch from Steam right now?

Hero_of_the_Day · Sep 13, 2015

LewieP said:
Whereas the other instances of secondary markets I discussed have a 100% track record of never ever being used to trade stolen/fraudulent obtained goods?

To tar an entire sector of the industry with the brush of "they are trafficking in stolen goods" without presenting evidence that any specific retailers are knowingly and routinely involved in the trade of stolen goods is utterly baffling to me.

As I said, CDkeys.com have a great track record for customer service. Better than many authorised retailers.

We're not a court in need of physical proof. We're a board whose mods have decided that a site selling games for half (or less) what they retail for, often times even before release, are clearly doing something shady. Whether that's using stolen credit cards or exploiting certain regions and their price differences, doesn't matter. There obviously has to be something slightly shady going on to sell things that cheaply.

Daingurse · Sep 13, 2015

I didn't care about the skins or DLC, and got if for like $10.50 from them a few days ago. Optimization isn't perfect yet, but I got it to be playable at a fidelity I found acceptable.

dh4niel said:
So, if I bought the game now via a site like CDkeys I can download this patch from Steam right now?

You activate the code on Steam like you would with any other game, and then Steam downloads the patch.

Solid Samus · Sep 13, 2015

Hero_of_the_Day said:
We're not a court in need of physical proof. We're a board whose mods have decided that a site selling games for half (or less) what they retail for, often times even before release, are clearly doing something shady. Whether that's using stolen credit cards or exploiting certain regions and their price differences, doesn't matter. There obviously has to be something slightly shady going on to sell things that cheaply.

Charlie Hall at Polygon wrote a pretty good piece detailing some of these retailer's shenanigans. I haven't looked into CDKeys much other than to verify whether or not you actually get the keys you pay for, and apparently you do. I'll look into it a bit more but I'm not sure I'd assume right off the bat that these keys are shady. I can think of a good reason or two that these resellers might have a bunch of unsold Arkham Knight PC keys that they want to offload for cheap...

JaseC · Sep 13, 2015

LewieP said:
Whereas the other instances of secondary markets I discussed have a 100% track record of never ever being used to trade stolen/fraudulent obtained goods?

To tar an entire sector of the industry with the brush of "they are trafficking in stolen goods" without presenting evidence that any specific retailers are knowingly and routinely involved in the trade of stolen goods is utterly baffling to me.

As I said, CDkeys.com have a great track record for customer service. Better than many authorised retailers.

The problem with unauthorised resellers in general is that purchasing a product leaves the buyer vulnerable to the possibility of the key later being revoked by the publisher, in which case, since the key was purchased from a source that is not recognised as legitimate, neither the service provider (e.g. Valve) nor publisher (e.g. WB) will be of assistance. Additionally, pre-orders can be a bit of gamble due to regional restrictions, which cannot be wholly ascertained until the game has released and the contents of the package the key activates are known.

I have a handful of resold keys tied to my Steam account myself that are now years old, but I nonetheless feel it's important that those who are adamant about using a reseller are aware of the potential issues -- risks that simply don't apply to stores that are officially affiliated with publishers or promotional keys being sold on the likes of eBay by people who upgraded their GPUs and don't want them.

scitek · Sep 13, 2015

Hero_of_the_Day said:
We're not a court in need of physical proof. We're a board whose mods have decided that a site selling games for half (or less) what they retail for, often times even before release, are clearly doing something shady. Whether that's using stolen credit cards or exploiting certain regions and their price differences, doesn't matter. There obviously has to be something slightly shady going on to sell things that cheaply.

Some of us don't really think there's anything wrong with that.

robotrock · Sep 13, 2015

I see G2A ads on NeoGAF all the time

Dambrosi · Sep 13, 2015

Solid Samus said:
Charlie Hall at Polygon wrote a pretty good piece detailing some of these retailer's shenanigans. I haven't looked into CDKeys much other than to verify whether or not you actually get the keys you pay for, and apparently you do. I'll look into it a bit more but I'm not sure I'd assume right off the bat that these keys are shady. I can think of a good reason or two that these resellers might have a bunch of unsold Arkham Knight PC keys that they want to offload for cheap...

Yeah, but can you say the same for Mad Max? Which came out just last week, right in the middle of Metal Gear fever, yes, but it's still only been out nine days?

I don't care though, so I bought both Arkham Knight and Mad Max at a price I deemed to be "a total steal", if you'll pardon the pun. If the keys get recalled and my games vanish, well, at least they were cheap.

LewieP · Sep 13, 2015

scitek said:
Some of us don't really think there's anything wrong with that.

Bingo.

Just like importing physical goods is totally acceptable, picking up clothing and consumer electronics when on holiday is totally acceptable, and there are huge financial institutions just engaging in trade of commodities and currencies, seeking to benefit from price arbitrage across regional borders.

Regional pricing discrepancies are a natural part of globalisation that both corporations and consumers should be able to engage in and benefit from.

If a retailer is engaging in trafficking of stolen goods, of course that is a matter for relevant law enforcement agencies to investigate and prosecute where applicable. If there is no such evidence, I don't think consumers should be scared away from engaging in the secondary market.

Yes you surrender certain rights (such as getting support from the developer/publisher, getting a refund in cases where refunds are offered, and yes in some cases you game might be revoked), but as long as you are aware you are surrendering those rights, the benefits outweigh the costs for many people, myself included.

JaseC · Sep 13, 2015

robotrock said:
I see G2A ads on NeoGAF all the time

Yeah, I've seen ads for CJS from time to time, too. Considering that recommending resellers is discouraged, the irony is palpable.

Hero_of_the_Day · Sep 13, 2015

scitek said:
Some of us don't really think there's anything wrong with that.

Hey, that's fair. I love boobs. But, the mods get all pissy when I post them here. Someday when we overthrow EviLore we will have boobs and cheap CD keys for everyone!

yatesl · Sep 13, 2015

LewieP said:
As I said, CDkeys.com have a great track record for customer service. Better than many authorised retailers.

Keep fighting the good fight, brother.

I also recommend CD Keys. I've used them many times (Battlefield 4 £32, Dark Souls 2 £20, Titanfall £25, Lords of the Fallen £19, Batman AK £15, Mad Max £12). Granted, some of those purchases are questionable in quality, but they all worked perfectly fine and never had a key revoked.

Regarding regional pricing differences, that arguement can't be used whilst also recommending Nuuvem. I refuse to believe we have that many Brazilian users on here.

scitek · Sep 13, 2015

Hero_of_the_Day said:
Hey, that's fair. I love boobs. But, the mods get all pissy when I post them here. Someday when we overthrow EviLore we will have boobs and cheap CD keys for everyone!

Key resellers are pretty much only banned because of the possibility of credit card fraud, not because of cross-region pricing. People buy cross-regional keys for each other on Steam all the time here.

LewieP · Sep 13, 2015

To be clear, I also recognise that it's for the people running Neogaf to determine what it the best set of policies for their forums. Their house, their rules. I'm just arguing in favour of the existence of the secondary market, and against the perception that it is inherently "shady" or "illegitimate".

CryptiK · Sep 13, 2015

scitek said:
Some of us don't really think there's anything wrong with that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that, I live in Aus. Fuck regional pricing.

Mechazawa · Sep 13, 2015

scitek said:
Key resellers are pretty much only banned because of the possibility of credit card fraud, not because of cross-region pricing. People buy cross-regional keys for each other on Steam all the time here.

Well, beyond the credit card fraud stuff, I think what pushed Evilore over the edge was key resellers somehow getting access to stolen keys intended to be distributed for free by other websites.

Cause yeah, Nuuvem is like party central here.

Joeku · Sep 13, 2015

robotrock said:
I see G2A ads on NeoGAF all the time

Yeah, it feels like I get almost nothing but G2A ads on mobile. Maybe it's a regional thing.

What is the hardline rule on these things? Didn't topics about grey market sellers get shut down early this year?

As far as Batman goes, I think even GMG was selling it for dirt cheap with the dlc around launch.

Valnen · Sep 13, 2015

LewieP said:
To be clear, I also recognise that it's for the people running Neogaf to determine what it the best set of policies for their forums. Their house, their rules. I'm just arguing in favour of the existence of the secondary market, and against the perception that it is inherently "shady" or "illegitimate".

It's inherently shady and illegitimate when it was revealed that they receive stolen property and when people started getting their games revoked.

Omega · Sep 13, 2015

Still overpriced by about $20

JoeyJungle · Sep 13, 2015

robotrock said:
I see G2A ads on NeoGAF all the time

I think G2A has an official store that the sell legit keys that they get from publishers, and then also have a user area that allows people to resell CD Keys. So they're kinda a unique case in the CD key reseller market.

JaseC · Sep 13, 2015

scitek said:
Key resellers are pretty much only banned because of the possibility of credit card fraud, not because of cross-region pricing. People buy cross-regional keys for each other on Steam all the time here.

Valve's cracked down on that hard over the past couple of years. These days, the country that generally has the cheapest prices and is not trade-restricted is Norway, with prices often being ~15% cheaper than their US counterparts, which isn't anything to write home about, especially when it comes to releases that are available on GMG or Nuuvem.

JoeyJungle said:
I think G2A has an official store that the sell legit keys that they get from publishers, and then also have a user area that allows people to resell CD Keys. So they're kinda a unique case in the CD key reseller market.

G2A does sell its own stock, but it is not affiliated with publishers. The dead giveaway is the fact that it sells B.net keys as Blizzard does not sell its games digitally anywhere but B.net.

LewieP · Sep 13, 2015

Valnen said:
It's inherently shady and illegitimate when it was revealed that they receive stolen property and when people started getting their games revoked.

Please provide evidence that this applies to every single cd key reseller. Actual evidence, not unproven allegations.

JaseC · Sep 13, 2015

Joeku said:
Yeah, it feels like I get almost nothing but G2A ads on mobile. Maybe it's a regional thing.

What is the hardline rule on these things? Didn't topics about grey market sellers get shut down early this year?

As far as Batman goes, I think even GMG was selling it for dirt cheap with the dlc around launch.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451542

JigglesBunny · Sep 13, 2015

Game crashes every 15 minutes.

I wouldn't recommend it.

Valnen · Sep 13, 2015

LewieP said:
Please provide evidence that this applies to every single cd key reseller. Actual evidence, not unproven allegations.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451542

That should be all the evidence you need.

forrest · Sep 13, 2015

They had this priced at $11 and change last week. Picked it up and grabbed Mad Max for $18ish

LewieP · Sep 13, 2015

Valnen said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451542

That should be all the evidence you need.

That's evidence they are against the rules. Something I was never disputing.

FunkyMunkey · Sep 13, 2015

edit: oh i see

Valnen · Sep 13, 2015

LewieP said:
That's evidence they are against the rules. Something I was never disputing.

Maybe you should look at why they're against the rules.

LewieP · Sep 13, 2015

Valnen said:
Maybe you should look at why they're against the rules.

Presumably because it is easier to adopt a blanket policy than to extend effort discerning between different retailers with different practises?

I understand why that is easier, and as such why the policy was adopted. That doesn't mean it is ideal. Ideally those retailers who are reputable and not engaged in illegal activity would be freely linked to, but I understand why this ideal solution cannot be practically achieved.

KingV · Sep 13, 2015

Valnen said:
Maybe you should look at why they're against the rules.

I think the issue is that all key resellers are treated equally. CDkeys.com, at least as far as I can tell, has not had many issues, and when they have make it right very quickly.

I've searched for examples of people that have had games removed specifically from cdkeys.com and haven't been able to find many examples on the first few pages of Google results. CJS-CDkeys and G2A ibhave absolutely seen and heard about problems, but obviously not all of these sites are equally shady.

ModBot · Sep 13, 2015

Yes, it's against the rules. The game is not officially for sale so there's no accounting for where these keys came from.

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