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DMC-Gaf, which one would you prefer: More contents or more characters?

S

Son Of Sparda

Member
We were talking about the lack of new contents in DMC4SE at the OT and I thought it would be a good idea to ask this here in the gaming side and get more opinions on the subject.

So, which one would you prefer DMC Gaf?

A) DMC5 with one or two fleshed out characters that have their own unique styles and weapons with a better and varied campaign and tons of different contents (Training, boss rush, mission mode, costumes, unlockable weapons, etc etc)

B) DMC5 with 5 or more different characters each with their own unique combat style and weapons but with a somewhat okay campaign and not many side contents (one or two costumes and maybe a Bloody Palace mode)

In short I'm asking you to choose between a better version of the overall package in DMC3 or a better version of all five characters in DMC4SE. So, choose.

Also, happy new year DMC GAF!

PS:
Let's not turn this into a DMC vs DmC thread, okay?

EDIT:

By more content, I mean better and more varied ones. So, more content means, more modes, better bosses, better enemy design, better levels and so on.

I wanna make something clear though, Option B would mean having an "okay" campaign overall with 5 or more characters with great depth in combat. It's just that neither one of them alone would be able to present the amount of depth that characters in Option A have. But overall, combat would be more varied in Option B.
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
Option A. Despite loving the idea of playing as Virgil I didn't actually care for it in the end. I always have the same issue with Ninja Gaiden, new characters sound like fun and ropes me but in the end they always kinda suck compared to the MC anyway.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
A) More content.

Don't even have to think about it, having one or two characters with a lot of depth is infinitely better than having 5 characters that aren't that great.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
After DMC4: Se, I can say it with a confidence that more characters.

Because depth and replayability scales exponentially with more characters (and variety WITHIN a character).

Whereas in the long run, it does not matter whether you have 15 unique stages or 25. After a certain amount of replays, you will inevitably play through it over and over and over again.

BUT I would also add something: a single bad level is enough to make replays leave a bad taste in my mouth. I will never forgive DMC4's castle levels for this. (And hell, almost any other levels :D). So with that in mind, my answer is:

8 well-crafted levels that offer smooth replayability >>>> 15 normal levels with a few bad

So give me more characters and stages that do not get in my way, and I am happy. DmC is a good direction in levels, because they are, even though they morph to "Get in the way", aligned much smoother than backtrack-repeat-land of DMC4.
 
K

Kuraudo

Banned
More content. Having five playable characters in DMC4:SE sounds great until you end up traversing the same level six times.
 
Neff

Neff

Member
Nice big meaty base game with lots of bosses, enemy types and varied level design, please. I don't even need additional characters. You can DLC me with those later.
And I'll buy them all.

Basically just try to out-do Bayonetta/W101 and I'll be more than happy.
 
W

W.S.

Member
More content, just have a developed set of moves for a character or two and then go crazy with the rest.

DMC4's big issue was the much mentioned backtracking so I hope to see that addressed in a future installment.
 
S

Seyavesh

Member
#1 is obviously the only real answer, having a meaty campaign and fully fleshed out dmc3 + style switch level dante is the motherfuckin' dream

dudes like nero, lady, trish and vergil can sit out if all you get is dante with the most batshit crazy in-depth moveset

but only if they include a full darkslayer style
 
E

Exodust

Banned
Give me an improvement over DMC4 Dante(who's already pretty awesome) with a lot of content and I'm a happy guy.
 
Y

yarrmateys

Member
Option A - a well balanced package

Then, the other characters can follow/tacked-on as DLC, but option A should be prioritized
 
S

Spring-Loaded

Member
Uh, honestly, more characters. I didn't like the backtracking in DMC4, but I absolutely never play these games for the levels, level design, (spatial) progression, or anything like that. DMC is entirely about the moveset(s) and experimentation with combat.

The "content" I play those for is entirely the moves. I would definitely prefer more characters/fighting styles. Any (good) character action game is going to be replayed anyway.

Seyavesh said:
#1 is obviously the only real answer, having a meaty campaign and fully fleshed out dmc3 + style switch level dante is the motherfuckin' dream

dudes like nero, lady, trish and vergil can sit out if all you get is dante with the most batshit crazy in-depth moveset

but only if they include a full darkslayer style
Click to expand...

The way the split is described in the OP isn't really that balanced imo, but even still, more characters is similar to having more fighting styles. Doesn't mean they have shallow movesets, just that they only have a couple weapons apiece.
 
Y

yarrmateys

Member
Son Of Sparda said:
I have to say, I kinda expected more people to vote for characters. The results have been a little surprising thus far.
Click to expand...

Option B isn't a bad choice, but I suppose the overwhelming number of voters for Option A is partly a result of how terrible 4 came to be, and how SE didn't really address the problems the original game had.

The thing is...you can always develop characters and release them as DLC down the line. On the other hand if you botch your campaign, level design, and pacing, it's something which would have to wait until the next game until it can be fixed.

In other words if you take Option A now at the expense of Option B, Option B can follow.
If you take Option B now at the expense of Option A, you're never going to be able to fix the stuff in Option A until DMC6 (not even in DMC5SE)

edit: Training, Boss Rush, Mission Mode, Costumes, Create-your-own-Bloody-Palace mode can always be patched in/DLC

A varied, meaty campaign with good pacing, and unlockable weapons I bet cannot, because of how the weapons interact with each other (unlike in Ninja Gaiden, where releasing the claws or the scythe work since it's pretty much similar to releasing a different character)

So overall, I guess my answer for Option A is merely foregoing the things which can be added later, and prioritizing the things that have to be gotten right the first time around
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Option A easily. The new characters shouldn't be coming at the cost of limiting content in the other department.

There are games which give you the option to play with dozens of characters like the Musou games. That's not really what DMC is about. DMC4SE was really the only game where you played more than 2 characters anyway.
 
V

Village

Member
Dahbomb said:
Option A easily. The new characters shouldn't be coming at the cost of limiting content in the other department.

There are games which give you the option to play with dozens of characters like the Musou games. That's not really what DMC is about. DMC4SE was really the only game where you played more than 2 characters anyway.
Click to expand...

Flaws with your argument

1) What if the person doesn't like musou or warring states or any of those things

2) DMC is a thing that you do not own and capcom owns, and can change what its about at any moment. Like the time they did. And the new what its about can become super popular.

Example, like that time they made re4, and re sells a bajillondy copies now ,good or no.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
If we have to choose, then Option A. Additional characters can always be added via DLC, and even if not, Option A makes for a better balanced game overall (ie. DMC3).
 
S

Seyavesh

Member
i would like to amend my choice to whichever one gets me 'devils never cry' played ingame

edit:
also sword pierce and wild ride and wild stomp
i mean that's probably a but if one of those extra characters is just "dmc3 dante" then yeahhhh
 
I

Ivan Amiibo

Banned
More content for sure. New characters didn't make me forget about disliking DMC4's base game.

Village said:
Flaws with your argument

1) What if the person doesn't like musou or warring states or any of those things

2) DMC is a thing that you do not own and capcom owns, and can change what its about at any moment. Like the time they did. And the new what its about can become super popular.

Example, like that time they made re4, and re sells a bajillondy copies now ,good or no.
Click to expand...

compelling stuff here
 
A

Aske

Member
You called the short campaign disappointing, so obviously I'd choose option A.

However, my ideal DMC 5 would be like a content-heavy DMC 1. Short, unbelievably tight game with a campaign and New Game Plus system so well crafted that it's a joy to replay even without a ton of bonus content. With multiple characters and costumes, it would be perfection. I'd die happy if DMC 1 was ever remade with all the bonus content of DMC 4 SE.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Village said:
Flaws with your argument

1) What if the person doesn't like musou or warring states or any of those things

2) DMC is a thing that you do not own and capcom owns, and can change what its about at any moment. Like the time they did. And the new what its about can become super popular.

Example, like that time they made re4, and re sells a bajillondy copies now ,good or no.
Click to expand...
There are a bunch of non DW games like Dragon Quest people can play. Or the Zelda game.

Sure Capcom can change the game to what they want but they have to change it to something that will actually do well. Unlike with RE, what they changed DMC to didn't work, so like what they did with SF after SF3, they are probably going back to what works.

Issue with more characters is that you get stuff like Lady and Trish with very limited options and that's still resources not being used to flesh out the other characters or the levels.

The point of this thread that you can't have both (as in a lot of characters and a lot of other content). If you asked this question to the majority of DMC fans I would bet my candy ass a vast majority would pick option A. And unless Capcom wants to alienate fans even further, I don't think they will go that route either.
 
M

matrix-cat

Member
Definitely option A. Gimme a big, meaty base game, loads of levels, bosses and extra stuff, with Dante and Vergil playable. Nero and friends can be DLC.
 
A

AgentLampshade

Member
While I appreciate having Lady and Trish as an option, I don't actually use them very often. I'd rather a strong, focused campaign with two characters (maybe two campaigns entirely if the budget is there). Each character has a plethora of costumes and styles/gameplay equivalent and can be used in the training room, Bloody Palace and Boss Rush modes. A secret character can be unlocked after an unspecified accomplishment and can run through each of the others campaigns with their own unique gameplay.

A superboss ala Rodin should be included as well in some form.
 
Strangelove77

Strangelove77

Member
Content.

But I read what you were saying in the DMC4SE thread, and I think youre demanding too much for the $25 the remaster cost. Because it is a remaster with added content, not some sort of fixed or enhanced game. Remasters dont mess with the base game to a huge extent because most people want to play the game as they remember it, whether it was kind of cruddy or not.
Were lucky we even got 3 new characters. Seriously. For $25 most publishers would have just pushed out a basic port. Capcom went above and beyond what was asked. Personally I can appreciate that.

And the same goes for costumes. 5 characters with 2-3 costumes each? Thats not bad. At all.

Unless you paid full $60, I wouldnt expect all brand new content, even if something like a training or boss rush mode might seem simplistic to you. Its probably not.

And I relaize this kind of derails the thread since youre not asking about DMC4SE. My bad.
 
E

Eblo

Member
Son Of Sparda said:
A) DMC5 with one or two fleshed out characters that have their own unique styles and weapons with a long varied campaign and tons of different contents (Training, boss rush, mission mode, costumes, unlockable weapons, etc etc)

B) DMC5 with 5 or more different characters each with their own unique combat style and weapons but with a somewhat disappointing campaign and not many side contents (one or two costumes and maybe a Bloody Palace mode)

In short I'm asking you to choose between a better version of the overall package in DMC3 or a better version of all five characters in DMC4SE. So, choose.
Click to expand...

This almost looks like a trick question, OP. A is clearly a better option than B. My main gripe with DMC4SE is that in place of all the cool Devil Arms we got different characters instead, but I never felt the slightest bit of interest in playing as them once I had already beaten the game. Sure, Dante got his own set of different weapons, but that was only in the part of the game you play as him as opposed to the main course as Nero, and to be frank I don't feel like the combat situations from that point to near the end really changed all too much with whatever you fought with (besides Lucifer, which I found pretty fun). I would have much preferred that the game had a selection of Devil Arms suited for various different situations starting relatively early on, like DMC1. The same holds true for guns as well. I like for each firearm to have a good situational use. Combat could have been designed to be a lot more interesting and varied.

tl;dr a better overall package will always trump a better selection of characters
 
J

jett

D-Member
I don't care about having additional half-baked characters AT ALL.

Give me a single, super-deep, polished character with a lot of content.
 
S

Spring-Loaded

Member
Eblo said:
tl;dr a better overall package will always trump a better selection of characters
Click to expand...

What if that package consists of more characters, i.e. more movesets? Is that not content"

This isn't a Mario game where the level design plays a large part in the experience. Every time you get into a fight in DMC, the environment may as well be an empty room. No one plays this series for the level design.

"Content or characters" is a false dichotomy by the OP. It should instead be "would you want a longer main game, or a shorter one with more characters?"

jett said:
I don't care about having additional half-baked characters AT ALL.

Give me a single, super-deep, polished character with a lot of content.
Click to expand...

I haven't played DMC4SE; are Trish, Lady, and Virgil half-baked?
 
B

brawly

Member
Content, obviously. Flipping the game halfway through is ridiculous, then having a little boss rush near the end (fighting the same bosses for the third time) is totally unacceptable
 
V

Village

Member
Dahbomb said:
There are a bunch of non DW games like Dragon Quest people can play. Or the Zelda game.
Click to expand...
Game play, aesthetic, other factors people might not be fond of. Games aren't things you throw people at and they instantly like. if that were true, bayo would have sold more. And W101, and every non listene platinum game.

Sure Capcom can change the game to what they want but they have to change it to something that will actually do well. Unlike with RE, what they changed DMC to didn't work, so like what they did with SF after SF3, they are probably going back to what works.
Click to expand...
Eh,

I think DMCSE will be to DMC5 , what Omega mode is to SF5

" I hope you like characters and replayable content "
Issue with more characters is that you get stuff like Lady and Trish with very limited options and that's still resources not being used to flesh out the other characters or the levels.
Click to expand...
Its a resmaster, they probably didn't have much of a budget to flesh out the levels more than they did. Also the issue with bolded, how do you know know they didn't feel like dante nero and vergil were fleshed out enough. People always say, " i would rather them put resources into something else" but that implies at that state they had more to do. They could have just been done with those characters or satisfied, outside of giving nero's devil trigger his full model , but they might not have even wanted to do that at this state. You assume to know the what the developers wanted to do, you had no idea. So... we should stop this " resources not being used business" because, its like slots smash. Its a meaningless argument unless you are on the development team when things are getting decided, or they tell you this information post launch.

Dahbomb said:
The point of this thread that you can't have both (as in a lot of characters and a lot of other content). If you asked this question to the majority of DMC fans I would bet my candy ass a vast majority would pick option A. And unless Capcom wants to alienate fans even further, I don't think they will go that route either.
Click to expand...
Since this is neogaf, they would probably vote B.
 
B

badcrumble

Member
Option A. Anyone who thinks it straight up doesn't matter that DMC4's campaign is terrible is deluding themselves.

That said, I think DMC could use some structural changes and ought to abandon the linear chapter-based structure anyway. I play DMC4 for the combat, not for the campaign, but since you *have* to do the campaign it needs to be good. I'd rather not have to do it at all.
 
S

Spring-Loaded

Member
badcrumble said:
Option A. Anyone who thinks it straight up doesn't matter that DMC4's campaign is terrible is deluding themselves.

That said, I think DMC could use some structural changes and ought to abandon the linear chapter-based structure anyway. I play DMC4 for the combat, not for the campaign, but since you *have* to do the campaign it needs to be good. I'd rather not have to do it at all.
Click to expand...
Do you play each of these games through once and then that's it? What do you play the series for?
 
B

badcrumble

Member
Spring-Loaded said:
Do you play each of these games through once and then that's it? What do you play the series for?
Click to expand...
I complete it on all difficulties, max out characters, and generally just fuck around battling with Bloody Palace and selected favorite boss battles after that.

Completing it on all difficulties is a lot more fun when the campaign doesn't suck balls.
 
C

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Option A is the correct answer.

Spring-Loaded said:
Uh, honestly, more characters. I didn't like the backtracking in DMC4, but I absolutely never play these games for the levels, level design, (spatial) progression, or anything like that. DMC is entirely about the moveset(s) and experimentation with combat.
Click to expand...

Which is easily the biggest problem with DMC and why it's going to join Mega Man in the list of forgotten Capcom franchises if they don't knock DMC5 out of the park.
 
B

BadWolf

Member
After playing Resonance of Fate I really want them to put more effort into the gun attack animations and moves.

The stuff in RoF is just on another level and would be perfect for Lady and Dante.
 
N

Novocaine

Member
Kuraudo said:
More content. Having five playable characters in DMC4:SE sounds great until you end up traversing the same level six times.
Click to expand...

But what if that content was awesome enough that replaying it didn't have a negative effect? DMC4 is a weird case IMO because the overall level design is kind of bad. If it was a joy to play through those levels then having multiple characters would give a good excuse to go back multiple times.
 
B

badcrumble

Member
Said it before but if there's a DMC5 it needs to be about selecting missions from the shop, and those missions should be really numerous and a lot shorter than traditional DMC chapters, and they should just about all be pure combat, not item fetching or platforming. Let me unlock characters by completing the right missions, give me tons of Devil Arms, give me character-specific mini-stories, give me superbosses that outclass anything in the main story. No linearity anymore kthx.
 
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