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Bar MAFIA |OT| There's Gonna Be Shots
- Thread starter Kawl_USC
- Start date
Barrylocke
Member
A friendly reminder that I explained reasoning for voting Ouro at the end of Day 2.
Remember, I wanted to see WAMD die the most on Day 2, but there was very little push of that with other voters and so I moved on.
#pointcalculator awards #townpoints for Barry and #blindpoints for Kyan for being blind. But reactions like this were what I was hoping for, now to see if the others deliver...
CornBurrito
Member
Can somebody PLEASE give me a TLDR?
ur dead rip in mutalisk
Hyperactivity
Banned
I'll maybe hopefully pm you stuff, including my own notes and observations, but I'm not sure so if one of you guys could give him a tldr too, that would be helpful
CornBurrito
Member
Ok I've caught up... slightly.
I'd like to direct everyone to Kingkitty's PM:
Yeah, I'm the Forger. I'm the one who has been handing out fake IDs.
I am neutral. My win condition is to hand out fake ids to 3 living players. The catch is that at least two of the players must be of varying alignment. Once I do that, I win. If I haven't and run out of ids, I need to spend a night making a new set.
I've given Ids to Barrylocke (confirmed by him), and Batsnacks. I also gave one to Splinter but he died.
I think it is actually in town's interest to keep me alive, because my win condition can function as a soft investigation. If Barry and Batsnacks are town, I can give my last ID to whoever you all think is scum. If I win in the next phase, you'll know whoever I gave the third ID to was scum.
I'd like to direct everyone to Kingkitty's PM:
Yeah, I'm the Forger. I'm the one who has been handing out fake IDs.
I am neutral. My win condition is to hand out fake ids to 3 living players. The catch is that at least two of the players must be of varying alignment. Once I do that, I win. If I haven't and run out of ids, I need to spend a night making a new set.
I've given Ids to Barrylocke (confirmed by him), and Batsnacks. I also gave one to Splinter but he died.
I think it is actually in town's interest to keep me alive, because my win condition can function as a soft investigation. If Barry and Batsnacks are town, I can give my last ID to whoever you all think is scum. If I win in the next phase, you'll know whoever I gave the third ID to was scum.
On a more serious note, Ill try one on the top of my head. 1st of all, here be the shortcut post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=205689711#post205689711
D1&N1:
Votes on TheExodu5 (doctor) and WhereAreMahDragonz (ordinary scum) force both to softclaim and votes go all around and AbsolutBro (ordinary town) gets lynched. During the night two kills happen, kingkitty (neutral jailer) and Splinter (ordinary town) die. The current theory is that kitty, who could kill the people he jailed, killed Splinter and scum then killed kitty.
D2&N2:
During day two Crab (one shot day alignment cop) uses his shot on Dusk Soldier and gets a town result on him. Crab claims to have more powers, what ends up being a lie to fool scum. Dragonz fake claims a confusing and complex role whereas TheExodu5 refuses to tell more about himself. In the end the day becomes a battle between timetokill and Ourobobuluous (ordinary town). Ouro dies and timetokill promises to provide information about dragonz, who he has hounded from the start. During the night TheExodu5 (doctor) dies.
D3&N3:
timetokill claims town tracker and tells that he tracked dragonz for two nights in a row, seeing no movement on either night. This contradicts dragonzs complex claim and leads to her demise. nin1000 claims to have received a drink during the night and Barrylocke claims to have received a fake ID. So far, these are the only instances of either gift we know of. The exact meaning of either is unknown. Dragonz dies in a boring vote and during the night Crab (1 shot day alignment cop) dies.
D1&N1:
Votes on TheExodu5 (doctor) and WhereAreMahDragonz (ordinary scum) force both to softclaim and votes go all around and AbsolutBro (ordinary town) gets lynched. During the night two kills happen, kingkitty (neutral jailer) and Splinter (ordinary town) die. The current theory is that kitty, who could kill the people he jailed, killed Splinter and scum then killed kitty.
D2&N2:
During day two Crab (one shot day alignment cop) uses his shot on Dusk Soldier and gets a town result on him. Crab claims to have more powers, what ends up being a lie to fool scum. Dragonz fake claims a confusing and complex role whereas TheExodu5 refuses to tell more about himself. In the end the day becomes a battle between timetokill and Ourobobuluous (ordinary town). Ouro dies and timetokill promises to provide information about dragonz, who he has hounded from the start. During the night TheExodu5 (doctor) dies.
D3&N3:
timetokill claims town tracker and tells that he tracked dragonz for two nights in a row, seeing no movement on either night. This contradicts dragonzs complex claim and leads to her demise. nin1000 claims to have received a drink during the night and Barrylocke claims to have received a fake ID. So far, these are the only instances of either gift we know of. The exact meaning of either is unknown. Dragonz dies in a boring vote and during the night Crab (1 shot day alignment cop) dies.
Well this will be useful. This likely means you are going to be a target by scum at some point...buuuut the cool thing here is if we all agree on who you will ID in the next night phase, then, the following day one of the following will occur:
1) You die by maf: meaning that you probably IDed a mafia
2) You don't die by maf, you don't win, we know all three are town
3) You don't die by maf, you do win, we know one is scum
Pretty awesome if you ask me.
My initial thought is that I cannot see you surviving this night. If you survive the day, scum will kill you during the night, no matter who we choose to give the ID to, either to protect their mate or to cast doubt on a townie. You also say that your wincon is to give 3 IDs to living players or varying alignment. This to me suggests that your wincon is checked after the deaths, so even if you did fulfill it, you could die before winning, telling us nothing.
CornBurrito
Member
1. Nope.
2. I have one more from my intial starting batch. This is because if a player dies, I get the ID back.
3. I lose presumably. I only win if I satisfy my condition.
So Barrylocke said he got a fake id, but really he was doused in gas and just decided to lie for my sake?
CornBurrito
Member
Yeah, I don't see myself surviving past this night. Timeaisis is right, the implication of my win condition basically means I'm extremely dangerous to scum. If they let me live past tonight, I could conceivably clear 3 town.
No like what if your role works like an arsonist as in people with fake IDs get bounced, like in a bar.
I didn't claim my fake ID because I thought the forger role might work similarly to an arsonist role.
CornBurrito
Member
Actually I missed the second half of your post.
My win condition actually only necessitates that I give out 3 IDs to 3 players, of which 1 must be of varying alignment. It doesn't state that I need to be alive when that happens.If I hit scum tonight (or if Barry/Snacks is scum and I give a 3rd id to whoever), my win condition would kick in even if they killed me.
CornBurrito
Member
It could I guess, but it doesn't.
I also don't really get your reasoning for not claiming your fake ID though. If you thought an arsonist was at play, wouldn't you have wanted town to be aware of that danger sooner?
The targeted player who received the ID must be alive though, at the start of the next day?
Town already knew about the fakes via Barry and I didn't bring up my theory immediately cause you'd know why. I thought I would survive longer if you didn't know the "dousing" succeeded.
Like I am thinking about:
If IDs handed out >= 3
AND
ID receiver m alignement =/= id receiver n alignment
AND
ID receiver x = alive on next phase after id received
THEN
#winning
Then it would mean that before you win, the next phase would need to start and kills would happen before it. You cannot win if you are dead, can you?
If IDs handed out >= 3
AND
ID receiver m alignement =/= id receiver n alignment
AND
ID receiver x = alive on next phase after id received
THEN
#winning
Then it would mean that before you win, the next phase would need to start and kills would happen before it. You cannot win if you are dead, can you?
CornBurrito
Member
I think so. Because a dead player automatically drops the ID, and it is given back to me.
So the deal begins with "im not scum pls no kill much love and hugs". If we agree, we get to pick a target to softcop. This is vulnerable to blockers, switchers and all other shenanigans since we'd be doing this openly. There is no guarantee that the ID would end up on the person we choose, even if CB honors the deal. The end result is unknown too, as long as we expect that CB dies via scum kill. If he dies, does he still win? I'd guess not, but there is no way to know for sure.
So the only good scenario is the best case scenario where: CB is telling the truth and is neutral with the described powers, he targets the chosen player and CB does not die or wins before his death. I count many ifs and see nothing certain. All threats to town must be eliminated. You might be one.
Vote: CornBurrito
So the only good scenario is the best case scenario where: CB is telling the truth and is neutral with the described powers, he targets the chosen player and CB does not die or wins before his death. I count many ifs and see nothing certain. All threats to town must be eliminated. You might be one.
Vote: CornBurrito
If cornbro's role is what he says it it
if cornbro's role is not what he says it is:
[vote] Vote: CornBro [/vote]
- Mafia knows who has fake IDs right now, they can just kill people who have IDs prolonging this indefinitely. They can do this whether or not a mafia member has a fake ID. cornbro confirming 3 towns is just as damaging (if not more damaging) to mafia as confirming a group of 3 that contains 1-2 mafia.
- If people don't claim that they have received fake IDs, then we will never be able to get information from this.
- mafia can kill cornbro. There is incentive to do this whether or not cornbro has fake IDed a mafia member. If cornbro clears 3 townies this hurts mafia a lot. If cornbro achieves victory by identifying a group of 3 that contains 1-2 mafia, this also hurts mafia a lot.
if cornbro's role is not what he says it is:
- cornbro could be an arsonist. This was my original theory. He could be ready to blow up up to 2 people.
- cornbro could be mafia. This role is very easy for mafia to fake, he could "clear" 3 people that includes a mafia member, he could manipulate results in a lot of ways as mafia.
- cornbro is claiming neutral role when he's leading in votes by a significant margin, and is claiming that he could possibly achieve his win condition if he gets -just 1 more night-. This is a huge red flag.
[vote] Vote: CornBro [/vote]
CornBurrito
Member
This doesn't make much sense if you are pro-town.
1. If a scum switcher gets involved, they'll switch whoever we pick with a townie. If I don't clear tomorrow... 3 confirmed town. Alternatively they switch with a scum member and that scum member hides that he got a fake ID. This presupposed that neither Barry nor Batsnacks is already scum. But this is also useful information for town to have.
2. If a scum blocker gets involved, you'll know once nobody claims getting a fake ID. Even if I die at night. That's useful information for town to have.
3. Scum, if they have neither of those two, is basically forced into killing me tonight or face a worst case scenario of 3 towns cleared. Given that at the very least I've admitted to not being town, you'd think you'd want a kill not directed to someone else who might be a legitimate town PR.
Because he claimed anti-town. He could be scum. He could be a harmful neutral, like kitty was. What he isn't is town.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Nah, if I'm scum I'm killing the town tracker (TTK) tonight. A neutral with a bunch of variables isn't worth killing.
My vote stays.
My vote stays.
CornBurrito
Member
I claimed neutral. My role isn't particularly anti-town. It actually hurts scum. Which probably explains my lack of bulletproof, and that there was a neutral hunter who specifically had to get me out of the game to win.
1. Why would CB reveal now if he was the arso? His best bet would be to lie low and kill quietly. Claiming makes no sense.
2. So he would have a *separate* mafia role that gives out fake IDs? I suppose I could see that...but I dunno what the *actual* effect would be of the fake IDs.
3. This is true.
I'll give you the neutral thing. He's likely dangerous. and I suppose it would be a good vote, but he could have a use if we kept him alive.
Not sure how if I want to lynch him just yet, though.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
He claimed because he's the only one with votes right now, and Hyper's play has been definitely suspicious?
CornBurrito
Member
What's my end goal then with claiming like this?
I'm secretly an arsonist and just want to kill batsnacks and Barrylocke tonight with my final night phase, and then get summarily executed by town tomorrow? Why would I throw the game like that?
What I think is that you are scum and are pretty much really afraid of giving me another night. Because it is bad for you either way. If I am arsonist and decide to just throw the game entirely, you die with Barrylocke. If I'm telling the truth though, you'd be hard pressed to explain why my win condition succeeded given your behavior today.
1. he had 4 votes and was probably going to get lynched, and he just replaced. I'd claim.
2. I think it's more likely that he's town-hurting-neutral than mafia, but still a whole lot can happen that will drag this out and waste time when we could just lynch a probable town-hurting role today and be guaranteed not to mislynch.
1. Scum switcher could do whatever and all we would do is WIFOM all around. Town does not make plans because scum can and will blow them wide open. We have no idea what powers scum have and thus no guarantees what we get tomorrow, if we get anything.
2. You could be scum and in this case you could just invent the blocker and claim you were blocked and in reality let other scum do the kill. Then we'd spend a another day arguing if you are what you are, wasting time.
3. If we do not kill you today and you survive and do not win, we'll be doing this again tomorrow. The best way to be sure of you is to kill you.
CornBurrito
Member
Well I've made my case. Feel free to spend the next 2 days scum hunting.