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Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - Cruisin' Down the Street in my 6/4

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T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I went back and looked at the BFZ mechanics article, which covered
Awaken
Rally
Landfall
Converge
Ingest
Processors
Eldrazi Scions
and Devoid


Yeah stuff may have gotten a bit out of control
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Derp someone totally pointed out that four armed Vedalken would in fact look too much like turning common depictions of Vishnu into a fantasy race, would actually have been too on the nose in a less than tasteful way
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Interesting, in the Energy video in the mechanics article, it shows that you can get a card named "Energy Reserve", which says, "Place your energy counters in this area." The video uses dice for energy counters. Neat that they're handling it that way.

EDIT: For fabricate, you decide if you want counters or creatures on resolution. If a fabricate creature enters the battlefield and it leaves in response to its fabricate trigger, you automatically get the Servo tokens.

The Technomancer said:
Derp someone totally pointed out that four armed Vedalken would in fact look too much like turning common depictions of Vishnu into a fantasy race, would actually have been too on the nose in a less than tasteful way
Click to expand...

That guy in the World Building Panel Q&A referenced that, when he said he was glad the vedalkens only had two arms.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
One thing to keep in mind is that mechanics rarely correlate to power level, or what will see play in Constructed. They do a lot to shape Limited, but remember that the most played card from Dragons of Tarkir is currently Collected Company, which has nothing to do with any of that set's mechanics.
 
A

A Serious Man

Member
I really hope there are more vehicles than just "big creature at a good rate that requires a little work to turn on". We've yet to see them do something clever with the mechanic.
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
A Serious Man said:
I really hope there are more vehicles than just "big creature at a good rate that requires a little work to turn on". We've yet to see them do something clever with the mechanic.
Click to expand...

Well, we know they'll interact with pilots in various ways. That could potentially lead to some interesting mix and match possibilities.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Simply Sarah said:
Well, we know they'll interact with pilots in various ways. That could potentially lead to some interesting mix and match possibilities.
Click to expand...

This makes me realize, that's pretty similar to my general idea for how riggers and contraptions could be done, with riggers being able to provide some benefit to the contraptions.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
SigmasonicX said:
This makes me realize, that's pretty similar to my general idea for how riggers and contraptions could be done, with riggers being able to provide some benefit to the contraptions.
Click to expand...

I've taken a couple stabs at Contraptions over the years but the whole "assembly" thing is where it gets messy because you really want it to feel like you're putting together disparate components. First attempt were artifacts that just used charge counters until they "fell apart" and could be re-assembled which is sort of like this. Second were riders on other cards that gave you "gears" and "pistons" but I couldn't figure out what to do with them that wouldn't be a nightmare to track
 
A

A Serious Man

Member
tumblr_ocwkdbDmoT1u9beo8o3_1280.jpg
Click to expand...

Eh.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
kirblar said:
They just did Daretti.

It's a combat game. Different builds is good (and the different races mostly provide that), but people fighting tend to be in shape.
Click to expand...

With wizards and artificers around? People who can do magic with a wave of their hands or build shit to do all the work for them? Nah I call bullshit.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
SigmasonicX said:
I remember you guys saying that Tiny Leaders isn't really a thing and it's just being pushed by card retailers, but has it completely fallen out of favor?
Click to expand...

The last update of any of their web presence was in April.

Simply Sarah said:
My only potential concern with how energy is represented is that when you start getting higher costs it's easier to start getting lost in correctly counting the number.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this has pretty much the same problem as mana in that sense. I believe they said there's only a couple cards with 6+ energy costs (possibly we saw all of them already) and I think it should be pretty legible up to 5.

A Serious Man said:
Aetherborn are basically the Consortium from WoW
Click to expand...

omg you're right

I instantly like them even better now.

Giant Panda said:
Not a huge fan of vehicles. I kind of wish vehicles were equipment that could attach to multiple creatures, but I realize making rules for that would have been much trickier than what they did.
Click to expand...

Thanks to the work they did for soulbond it's actually not too hard to make work in the rules, I think the biggest issue is really illustrating which cards are connected on the table.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
A Serious Man said:
Eh.
Click to expand...

The anti-synergy is annoying, but it still seems like a fine Limited card. If you make Servos then have them attack, the Servos will be 2/2s. Granted, I don't know why they're making it a promo card.

Also, mechanics are up in the OP.

EDIT: Oh, and may as well start asking now. Suggestions for the thread title?
 
C

charlequin

Banned
The Technomancer said:
Yeah stuff may have gotten a bit out of control
Click to expand...

Well and I mean out of those eight (!!!) BFZ mechanics, one literally does nothing, one does something insignificant that only matters for yet another one of them which never got developed effectively, and one other is completely perplexing since it has nothing to do with anything else in the set.

kirblar said:
I have a feeling this set is going to be more divisive than they anticipated.
Click to expand...

None of the mechanics have the qualities that tend to prompt a lot of backlash and it isn't really positioned to be destructive to competitive formats. I honestly don't think there are many people who will be unhappy about sets having a smaller mechanical footprint after the last two years.

That said, if we go back and count mechanics from block-starting large sets:

SOI: 3 new + 2 returning
BFZ: 5 new + 3 returning-ish
KTK: 5 new + 1 returning
THS: 3 new + 2 returning
RTR: 5 new + 1 returning
ISD: 4 new + 1 returning
SOI: 3 new + 1 returning
ZEN: 2 new + 1 returning (plus some not-quite-there stuff like allies)

We do have to go all the way back to Zendikar to find another block with this few mechanics.

The Technomancer said:
Holy crap I've fallen down the rabbit hole of Magic story Tumblrs

There's...a lot of really good stuff in here
Click to expand...

There are a surprising number of people who do a good job tracking and sifting through this shit.
 
C

cooltrainer

Member
I am not super impressed with what I've seen so far but I'm hopeful more interesting cards will come. Most of the vehicles are pretty generic magic creatures so far, though the skyship looks really cool. Fabricate will probably mostly limited stuff. The energy cards are the most intriguing. If you have lots of energy producing cards you could produce a pretty interesting economy and really consider what you're gonna spend your energy on. I think the most interesting stuff from that will come when you put cards together and build a whole deck around it.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
cooltrainer said:
Fabricate will probably mostly limited stuff.
Click to expand...

Given how often token strategies have been dominant in recent years, Fabricate is actually the one I think is most likely to have an impact on Standard -- vehicles really still seem pretty uncertain to me, and energy is gonna be very dependent on what the cards look like, while it'll only take one really efficient Fabricator in a good color to be a thing.
 
C

cooltrainer

Member
charlequin said:
Given how often token strategies have been dominant in recent years, Fabricate is actually the one I think is most likely to have an impact on Standard -- vehicles really still seem pretty uncertain to me, and energy is gonna be very dependent on what the cards look like, while it'll only take one really efficient Fabricator in a good color to be a thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah you're probably right about that one. I always felt that that investigate was also kind of a tie in with this set. I wonder how generating lots of artifact tokens might be a strong strategy if the right cards come. Something like Ghirapur Aether Grid where you can leverage all of your tiny artifacts.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
cooltrainer said:
Yeah you're probably right about that one. I always felt that that investigate was also kind of a tie in with this set. I wonder how generating lots of artifact tokens might be a strong strategy if the right cards come. Something like Ghirapur Aether Grid where you can leverage all of your tiny artifacts.
Click to expand...

Yeah, investigate was one of the biggest reasons I was sure this would be Kaladesh before it was announced. Given the Servos and Thopters and such I would be shocked if there aren't a bunch of cool things you can do by having a bunch of tiny artifacts.
 
D

duxstar

Member
So the first thing to remember when evaluatng any new cards is to compare it to similar cards that are in the same block.

So far they've spoiled a 3/3 for 4 in red , and a 3/3 for 4 in white. Then I remembered theres a 4/3 flying first strike lifelinking eldrazi angel in standard that sees almost 0 play and realized these cards arent playable.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
duxstar said:
So the first thing to remember when evaluatng any new cards is to compare it to similar cards that are in the same block.

So far they've spoiled a 3/3 for 4 in red , and a 3/3 for 4 in white. Then I remembered theres a 4/3 flying first strike lifelinking eldrazi angel in standard that sees almost 0 play and realized these cards arent playable.
Click to expand...

Yeah but what's leaving?
 
Y

Yeef

Member
I'm hoping we see an Energy Converter card that allows you to trade some resource for energy or vice versa. Something along like:

Energy Transmuter
Artifact
{E}{E}: Untap target land.
Sacrifice a land: You get {E}{E}.
Click to expand...
(But, you know, actually designed to be fair).

The Technomancer said:
Yeah but what's leaving?
Click to expand...
Fiery Impulse.

The cards that make X/3's (and X/4's to some degree) less playable right now are Fiery Impulse, Fiery, Temper, Grasp of Darkness and Languish. Impulse and Languish are leaving; Grasp of Darkness is double colored and Temper is really only solid if you have enough discard effects. Depending on how things shake out, it's possible neither of those will be as widely played after rotation. Galvanic Bombardment might potentially replace Impulse, but it's going to be worse a lot of the time.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
It's important to remember that Standard is currently being drastically warped by Collected Company. Gisela not currently seeing play is pretty much solely due to that.

As for the dragon and roc that have been spoiled, they're pretty clearly Limited rares. I don't think anyone is under any illusion otherwise.

And again, any suggestions for the thread title? I won't ask charlequin to change it until Sunday night, but it would be nice to get suggestions throughout PAX.

EDIT: The vehicle I mentioned that was revealed in Drive to Work Live.
fleetwheelcruiser.jpg
 
C

cuc

Member
Finally having Dwarves in White is cool.

Aetherborn is hitting a lot of right notes on what I wanted from representatives of Black. I'm curious about finding out their actual biology and socioeconomics. I mean, where do they get the wealth to consume and patronize arts with if they are all industrial "byproducts"? Do they work? Do they have a system of inheritance?
 
C

charlequin

Banned
This thing about BYODrafts in the Drive To Work Live is really interesting. I don't think we'd heard of this before, but they do themed drafts inside WotC related to future sets, where they'll announce a theme, have participants design cards towards it, have development make a quick pass to turn the result into something vaguely draftable, then draft it, play, and provide notes about the cards they liked. Humble Defector was originally designed for one of these.

Also, y'all left out the best bit from the DTWL which is how the tapped-artifacts rule went away because Mark was pissed off about Sandsipoise screwing up the Invitational.

duxstar said:
So the first thing to remember when evaluatng any new cards is to compare it to similar cards that are in the same block.

So far they've spoiled a 3/3 for 4 in red , and a 3/3 for 4 in white.
Click to expand...

I'd say the first thing to remember is that the average cards you see from the set aren't going to be representative of the power level of the stuff that should be considered for constructed decks. :p
 
S

sgjackson

Member
did an emn draft tonight after not having drafted since the beginning of khans of tarkir. drafted okay, played horribly, had a lovely time.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
One thing that surprises me is that so far, the artifacts in this set seem not to care about color. One of the main lessons from original Mirrodin was that too many artifacts screws up the color pie, and one solution was to have colored activation costs and such. But here, blue can get access to a 6/1 trample haste Vehicle for (4), as long as it has a 1/1 creature. I'm guessing the way they'll define color within the artifacts is to have the colors care about them in different ways, such as red having more Pilots to boost Vehicles.

And to get us started, my thread title suggestion:

Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - Tap Emrakul to get the hype train started
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
SigmasonicX said:
It's important to remember that Standard is currently being drastically warped by Collected Company. Gisela not currently seeing play is pretty much solely due to that.

As for the dragon and roc that have been spoiled, they're pretty clearly Limited rares. I don't think anyone is under any illusion otherwise.

And again, any suggestions for the thread title? I won't ask charlequin to change it until Sunday night, but it would be nice to get suggestions throughout PAX.

EDIT: The vehicle I mentioned that was revealed in Drive to Work Live.
fleetwheelcruiser.jpg
Click to expand...

Eh solely due to CoCo? I doubt that. Grasp and Iskanah both eat it.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
cuc said:
Finally having Dwarves in White is cool.

Aetherborn is hitting a lot of right notes on what I wanted from representatives of Black. I'm curious about finding out their actual biology and socioeconomics. I mean, where do they get the wealth to consume and patronize arts with if they are all industrial "byproducts"? Do they work? Do they have a system of inheritance?
Click to expand...

Are you sure you arent asking too much of wizards storytelling?
 
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