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Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - Cruisin' Down the Street in my 6/4

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F

Firemind

Member
red13th said:
Beautiful deck, I wish they printed better aggro 2 drops in red. I have an insane amount of 2 drops in black that range from great to completely ridiculous (Asylum Visitor, Bloodghast, Dark Confidant, Heir of Falkenrath, Oona's Prowler, Pack Rat and Scrapheap Scrounger) but red two drops are pretty lackluster.
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I was hoping I would face blue decks that would durdle around. Instead I faced Jund that played several Huntmasters with Kolaghan's Command. D:

Also, Collective Brutality is such a good cube card. The versatility is insane. Goes great in reanimator as well as a discard outlet.
 
Wulfric

Wulfric

Member
OnPoint said:
Thought experiment. Try to remember the cards people hated in standard in recent years, not including Kaladesh. This is my list:

Jace 2.0, Stoneforge, the Titan cycle, Mental Misstep, Delver, Snapcaster, Thragtusk, Pack Rat, Sphinx's Rev, Thoughtseize, Courser/Caryatid, Fetches, Rally, Siege Rhino, Den protector/Deathmist, Coco/Reflector/Queller
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Those are some of my favorite cards though... also how is Dark Confidant not on that list? He had to have been a bomb rare more than 10 years ago.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
red13th said:
Beautiful deck, I wish they printed better aggro 2 drops in red. I have an insane amount of 2 drops in black that range from great to completely ridiculous (Asylum Visitor, Bloodghast, Dark Confidant, Heir of Falkenrath, Oona's Prowler, Pack Rat and Scrapheap Scrounger) but red two drops are pretty lackluster.
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Thats mainly because black gets to do cool things other than attack.

Also anyone who likes Misstep is objectively a bad person.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Giant Panda said:
I haven't seen much of anyone hating on Den Protector and Deathmist.

But I would personally add Thought-Knot, Kalitas, Jeskai Ascendancy, maybe Whisperwood Elemental/Mastery of the Unseen.
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Really? I could swear those got complaints quite a bit in the MagicGAF threads. However, the cards you mentioned did not get a lot of hate in this community.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
HK-47 said:
TKS got hate in other formats where he is the bombiest turn 2 play.
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Right, and I specified Standard.

You see, my point is that there are ALWAYS cards we complain about in Standard. One or two stand out cards people love to hate. That warp a format. That make things "miserable". There's ALWAYS something.

People have such short memories.

Suddenly I'm reading Coco was alright in here? When we had 6 months of bitching? No. Fuck that. Just had to point it out.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
I love Coco. I'd be happy with bomb ass 2 and 3 drop value from here until Trump causes the apocalypse.

But the format certainly seems more diverse now. Just not in the way people want. Especially all the spellslingers that are chaffing at the creature centric direction of recent years.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Wulfric said:
Monastery Mentor was a thing in standard for a little while. Some Miracle builds still run him.
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Right, but nobody complained about it. I was specifically highlighting problem cards people bitched about consistently, not powerful cards people occasionally played.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Wulfric said:
Those are some of my favorite cards though... also how is Dark Confidant not on that list? He had to have been a bomb rare more than 10 years ago.
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Dark Confidant saw some standard play, but was always more of a legacy/vintage card that a Standard/Modern card.

It's hard to find snapshots of standard from it's time- they didn't do standard GPs untill 200, and Standard wasn't always a Pro Tour format- but it saw zero top 8 appearances in the Worlds that was Champions block and Ravnica: City of Guilds, 2 appearances in the top 8 of what we would call today Pro Tour: Guildpact (in W/B aggro decks), zero appearances in the worlds that was Rav block and Time Spiral, and a single appearance in the only standard GP that happened in the life of the card.

Mental Misstep is another example of a card that kind of did nothing in Standard but was absurd in Legacy/Modern/Vintage
 
A

An-Det

Member
Wulfric said:
Those are some of my favorite cards though... also how is Dark Confidant not on that list? He had to have been a bomb rare more than 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

The two years with original Ravnica in Standard were super fucking varied in a way that it hasn't been since, so powerful cards such as Bob weren't as big of an issue (or didn't fit the format). Bob saw play, but didn't really shine in Standard like it does in Eternal formats.
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
OnPoint said:
Right, and I specified Standard.

You see, my point is that there are ALWAYS cards we complain about in Standard. One or two stand out cards people love to hate. That warp a format. That make things "miserable". There's ALWAYS something.

People have such short memories.

Suddenly I'm reading Coco was alright in here? When we had 6 months of bitching? No. Fuck that. Just had to point it out.
Click to expand...

6 months of bitching? So in other words, no one complained about it until Reflector Mage was printed? :p

That was my point, ultimately- CoCo was fine until Wizards fucked up and have Green easy access to the best everything.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Infinite Stars said:
6 months of bitching? So in other words, no one complained about it until Reflector Mage was printed? :p

That was my point, ultimately- CoCo was fine until Wizards fucked up and have Green easy access to the best everything.
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I'd have to go back and look at the posts to know how long it actually was. People were definitely already sick of it before that because it was seeing play before OGW, but yeah, it became REALLY busted and unfun when Reflector Mage hit.

My point, ultimately, is that CoCo was not fine, and we shouldn't pretend it was. Even if you were fine with it, the overwhelming feeling toward it was not. I loved Thragtusk something fierce, but man did people bitch about that card. I can admit I was in the minority.

Furthermore, EVERY standard has a card that's not fine. I just find it funny that when we're on to the new thing (Smug Copter) people come out of the woodwork defending or pretending that it was never that bad.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Infinite Stars said:
6 months of bitching? So in other words, no one complained about it until Reflector Mage was printed? :p

That was my point, ultimately- CoCo was fine until Wizards fucked up and have Green easy access to the best everything.
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Coco was only fine if Wizards never printed a good tempo, value, or ETB creature at 2 or 3 mana in a creature centric phase of Magic for the rest of its standard run.

The second Origins came out the table was already set with baby Jace and baby Nissa.
 
Wulfric

Wulfric

Member
bigkrev said:
Dark Confidant saw some standard play, but was always more of a legacy/vintage card that a Standard/Modern card.

It's hard to find snapshots of standard from it's time- they didn't do standard GPs untill 200, and Standard wasn't always a Pro Tour format- but it saw zero top 8 appearances in the Worlds that was Champions block and Ravnica: City of Guilds, 2 appearances in the top 8 of what we would call today Pro Tour: Guildpact (in W/B aggro decks), zero appearances in the worlds that was Rav block and Time Spiral, and a single appearance in the only standard GP that happened in the life of the card.
Click to expand...

An-Det said:
The two years with original Ravnica in Standard were super fucking varied in a way that it hasn't been since, so powerful cards such as Bob weren't as big of an issue (or didn't fit the format). Bob saw play, but didn't really shine in Standard like it does in Eternal formats.
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Interesting, I guess cards were viewed in a different lense back when modern wasn't a thing and ZEN fetches didn't even exist.

How about Thoughtseize? I know Duress and Despise were around, but Thoughtseize seems to be the best card-stealing ability in black until Inquisition was printed.
 
S

Santiako

Member
Ajani joins the Gatewatch

en_Pm9YNrJbht.png


Seems pretty good. Those turn 3 Gideons in standard are going be disgusting.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
What a weird mix of abilities. The cost reduction incentivises you play it on turn 2, but the other ability incentivises you waiting till you have 2 or more creatures. It just feels like you are never going to take advantage of both abilities in the same game. And how many creature swarm decks are playing expensive walkers?

Maledict said:
They are so blatantly setting up Ajani's death it's becoming quite painful.
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Good thing he's on the booster art for the 2018 expansion!
 
J

Jhriad

Member
bigkrev said:
What a weird mix of abilities. The cost reduction incentivises you play it on turn 2, but the other ability incentivises you waiting till you have 2 or more creatures. It just feels like you are never going to take advantage of both abilities in the same game. And how many creature swarm decks are playing expensive walkers?
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The first ability insures that the card isn't dead in hand when you draw a second copy later in the game and the second gives you reason to cast it on curve. Both abilities aren't supposed to give immediate benefit to on-curve play. It's the same as the other cards in the cycle; one ability gives immediate utility and the other gives utility to playing Planeswalker cards in subsequent turns. Given that Nissa and Gideon both generate creature tokens it doesn't seem all that odd to me.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Concerning the two abilities, the intention seems to be for one to only be useful early on, and for the counter ability to be marginally useful early and more useful later. I doubt many decks can fully take advantage of both at the same time. Still, I like it.

Also, random thought: how do you guys feel about red getting "destroy target creature with toughness 4 or greater"? MaRo has stated that high toughness creatures are one of red's weaknesses, but that's just too much of a limitation now. I think that as long as direct damage as destruction are kept separated on cards, there's still the weakness that you have to choose one or the other.
 
K

keeblerdrow

Member
So is the reason we haven't heard from Bolas possibly because he lost his spark and is maybe unconscious from some thing he was trying in order to regain his premending power? Seems like a good reason for Tezzeret to be trying to scale a transport and a planar portal to roughly dragon size.

This presupposes that Tezzeret is still working for Bolas.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
bigkrev said:
What a weird mix of abilities. The cost reduction incentivises you play it on turn 2, but the other ability incentivises you waiting till you have 2 or more creatures. It just feels like you are never going to take advantage of both abilities in the same game. And how many creature swarm decks are playing expensive walkers?



Good thing he's on the booster art for the 2018 expansion!
Click to expand...

I think the more important take away is that unlike other non Nissa Oath, Ajani's is a good play at any point in the game or board state.
 
A

alternade

Member
Fuck, just when I thought I wanted to build Stax Atraxa this pulls me back into Dark Bant Superfriends.

Now all we need is Oath of Kiora and maybe Oath of Ugin
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Santiako said:
Ajani joins the Gatewatch

en_Pm9YNrJbht.png


Seems pretty good. Those turn 3 Gideons in standard are going be disgusting.
Click to expand...

card is the nuts

it's not a superfriends card. it's a tokens card. it makes your generators cheaper while antheming your team. It's for playing with Nissa and Gideon and Thraben Inspector.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";226649014]card is the nuts

it's not a superfriends card. it's a tokens card. it makes your generators cheaper while antheming your team. It's for playing with Nissa and Gideon and Thraben Inspector.[/QUOTE]

It can be both.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
I'm not saying this is Voice of Resurgence, Fleecemane Lion or Dromoka's Command, but WotC definitely likes to push their GW-costing Standard cards.

HK-47 said:
It can be both.
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You're losing value by not taking advantage of the most important mode in the +1/+1 counters. If you're playing a superfriends deck that doesn't make a ton of creatures this is a dead draw a lot of the time. Of course, if your superfriends all make tokens this card is awesome.
 
T

ThLunarian

Member
Oath of Ajani seems like it sucks in Superfriends. Why not just play a mana rock? Do those types of decks ever have enough creatures on the board for the other ability to matter?

And I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of standard; are there not currently 2 mana accelerators available in the format? Because why not just play accelerators plus anthem effects? I know this card sort of does both, but it's much worse at both of them than a dedicated card and it will never do both at the same time
 
H

Hero

Member
ThLunarian said:
Oath of Ajani seems like it sucks in Superfriends. Why not just play a mana rock? Do those types of decks ever have enough creatures on the board for the other ability to matter?

And I don't know much about the nuts and bolts of standard; are there not currently 2 mana accelerators available in the format? Because why not just play accelerators plus anthem effects? I know this card sort of does both, but it's much worse at both of them than a dedicated card and it will never do both at the same time
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The answer is there is only one 2 mana rock in standard and you need cards in the graveyard for it to work.
 
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