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Nightengale · Jan 4, 2017

With Cold Steel 2, I would say they're about 60- 70% there in terms of replicating the same vibes that the older style games had in terms of cinematic moments.

Fight scenes still aren't good though, they don't have Square Enix mastery of dynamic camera angles yet.

Gu4n · Jan 4, 2017

SephLuis said:
By scenario are you including side quests or just the main story ?

And good luck with your translation of Zero. If I had more confidence in my japanese, I would help.

Sidequests are included. Quest details in the notebooks are not included.

Aeana said:
Will the PC patch support both the Chinese and Japanese versions as a base, or just one of them?
Considering the DRM situation on the Chinese version, I wouldn't be upset or disappointed if it was Japanese only.

I'll ask the hacker to look into that!

Holundrian · Jan 4, 2017

Quick side thought, while playing Zero I had to really appreciate how well these games hold up and how easy it is to play prior ones without them feeling outdated.
Sure I miss the skip arts feature but honestly it's pretty remarkable.
When I think of games like Persona where I even find it hard to go back from Golden to the original P4 version, it's kind of a testament at how solid trails games at their core are, they age pretty well.

duckroll · Jan 4, 2017

Nightengale said:
With Cold Steel 2, I would say they're about 60- 70% there in terms of replicating the same vibes that the older style games had in terms of cinematic moments.

Fight scenes still aren't good though, they don't have Square Enix mastery of dynamic camera angles yet.

It's not a problem of dynamic camera angles imo. It might be a problem of budget. I've noticed right off the start from CS1 that with full 3D graphics now, they are sort of forced to reuse battle animations because it might be too time consuming or expensive for them to fully storyboard and animate new action motions for single use cutscenes. Where else when the series was still 2D, it was just a matter of the sprite team doing some unique animations for characters mixed with existing combat animation and it automatically feels much more exciting.

But since CS and CS2 both sold very well in Japan, and CS3 isn't constrained by the need to rush a conclusion to a cliffhanger, hopefully we'll see something better next.

ShadowSoldier89 · Jan 4, 2017

CS2 was still a pretty big step up from CS1 as it is

duckroll · Jan 4, 2017

ShadowSoldier89 said:
CS2 was still a pretty big step up from CS1 as it is

Sure. I think some scenes were very good (

Angelica vs her dad in mechs, G-Gundam style! Arseid vs McBurn at the end too.

), but I also think that a lot of it felt pretty mediocre still (

Rean dashing through all the enemies at the end of the Intermission. Most of the boring scenes where a group of party members or teacher just stood around and "powered up" with their weapons.

)

ShadowSoldier89 · Jan 4, 2017

I wasnt saying it was good, just a very noticeable step up. Gives me a lot of hope for CS3. This genre is sorely lacking in games with decent production values

Eylos · Jan 4, 2017

about cutscenes i think they are ok in CS2, thinking in hardware limitations they are very good

what i want now is something like xenogears in CS3, (let me dream)

BassForever · Jan 4, 2017

Eylos said:
about cutscenes i think they are ok in CS2, thinking in hardware limitations they are very good

what i want now is something like xenogears in CS3, (let me dream)

So long scenes of rean sitting in a chair explaining things that happened off screen? Cold steel 1 already had that to a certain extent.

Eylos · Jan 4, 2017

BassForever said:
So long scenes of rean sitting in a chair explaining things that happened off screen? Cold steel 1 already had that to a certain extent.

the end game cutscenes the vita really strugles with frame rate,

i wanted a large conflict in CS2, but the vita never would handle that,

lets hope with ps4 without restrictions

thestopsign · Jan 4, 2017

SatelliteOfLove said:
Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong chapter. Trust me.

I didn't finish it, but I fell asleep super early. I got quite far in it boss wise in short order though.

Final Chapter SC Spoilers:

The Ouroboros were all kind of pushovers besides Luciola. It took me a second to realize that I was killing my own guys with Death Scream. I was wondering how she was doing so much damage to my guys, it turns out it was me.

Young Magus · Jan 4, 2017

omgfloofy said:
DMM currently has a major 50% off sale for all of their digital Falcom titles right now that ends on 1/10. I've not ordered through them though, so I'm not sure how it works, but here's an option that I know of right now.

http://www.esterior.net/2016/12/all...es-on-dmm-com-are-currently-on-a-50-off-sale/

Ayyyyyyy,
Gagharv Trilogy on sale too for ~$15!

Dragon1893 · Jan 4, 2017

I've only played CS2 for 3 hours so maybe I need to play more but I don't see any noticeable improvements in terms of animation or visuals and I always pay a lot of attention to that stuff.

ShadowSoldier89 · Jan 4, 2017

Dragon1893 said:
I've only played CS2 for 3 hours so maybe I need to play more but I don't see any noticeable improvements in terms of animation or visuals and I always pay a lot of attention to that stuff.

you should at least have noticed the improvements in running around and attacking on the field. The running animation is mostly the same, but sharp turns are less jumpy and overall control on the field is better

SatelliteOfLove · Jan 4, 2017

Glad you noticed Matilda's philosophical musings and Jill's actually quality filthy-minded moments (those actually can be done right!)

Eylos said:
the end game cutscenes the vita really strugles with frame rate,

i wanted a large conflict in CS2, but the vita never would handle that,

lets hope with ps4 without restrictions

Yup on that count. That and the 3D jump left them in a wierd no mans land there. Im glad to see that transition from chess pieces to cinematic fully.

PK Gaming · Jan 4, 2017

Dragon1893 said:
I've only played CS2 for 3 hours so maybe I need to play more but I don't see any noticeable improvements in terms of animation or visuals and I always pay a lot of attention to that stuff.

Rean's attack animations are way better. You actually see him sheathe/unsheathe his Tachi when performing certain moves, and skills like Gale are a lot smoother

The character models are better, with the cast generally having better default stances.

Fights during cutscenes are no longer comical. Not something you'll experience now, but the later chapters have better choreography behind fights.

SephLuis · Jan 4, 2017

PK Gaming said:
And yeah, the unvoiced band scene doesn't even remotely compare to the play.

In retrospect, I don't think they were quite ready for the jump to the 3D in CS1. I can't even imagine them pulling off a fully 3D version of FC with the resources & experience they had back when they made CS1.

At the very least, their passion for writing dialogue for their characters hasn't changed in the least.

That scene in CS I was a little bit of a letdown to me =/

There's also a performance in the Crossbell arc and it was beautiful, even if they were using sprites. The scenes were much shorter than a full music concert, but I would appreciate if they did just two full songs from beginning to end.

Young Magus said:
Ayyyyyyy,
Gagharv Trilogy on sale too for ~$15!

What's the difference between those and the PSP versions ?

Thinking about buying those, the Zwei games and Dinosaur Resurrection.

EndcatOmega · Jan 4, 2017

Anywhere to buy the japanese PC version of Zero online that isn't region locked? Want to check it out but not sure I want to mess around with VPNs or whatever.

iRAWRasaurus · Jan 4, 2017

Is the plan just to translate Zero? Or are there plans to do Ao as well? I wasn't sure if its both or just one of them.

ShadowSoldier89 · Jan 4, 2017

PK Gaming said:
Rean's attack animations are way better. You actually see him sheathe/unsheathe his Tachi when performing certain moves, and skills like Gale are a lot smoother

The character models are better, with the cast generally having better default stances.

Fights during cutscenes are no longer comical. Not something you'll experience now, but the later chapters have better choreography behind fights.

theres also a lot more animations in the bonding events too, though the headpat is of course still there, and they still do that thing where the scene blurs in the background and it just shows the characters talking visual novel style

SephLuis · Jan 4, 2017

iRAWRasaurus said:
Is the plan just to translate Zero? Or are there plans to do Ao as well? I wasn't sure if its both or just one of them.

As far as I know they are translating Zero. They should go to Ao after the Zero translation is finished if everything goes fine. It should take some time because Ao is the biggest game in the series.

chaosblade · Jan 4, 2017

They mentioned doing Ao too. A little of it is already translated and some of the tools and hacking for the PSP version has been worked on.

Seems pretty noncommital, I haven't seen a "Yes, we're definitely doing that too," but I think they are hoping XSEED steps in before it gets to that point. In the end I think they would do it if XSEED doesn't, just because it doesn't make sense to only have Zero, and one of the reasons they are working on it is to maintain positivity in the fanbase.

ShadowSoldier89 · Jan 5, 2017

these finally came in

CrichtonKicks · Jan 5, 2017

Does anyone have a link for the mods that can speed up the battles in Trails PC editions? I've seen them referenced on the forum but google is failing me.

apd_ng · Jan 5, 2017

Who are the strongest protags?

I'm assuming it goes Sky cast > Zero > Cold steel?

duckroll · Jan 5, 2017

CrichtonKicks said:
Does anyone have a link for the mods that can speed up the battles in Trails PC editions? I've seen them referenced on the forum but google is failing me.

I'm a mod and I'll ban you if you don't complete the games by next week. That should speed it up for you. Hope that helps.

SephLuis · Jan 5, 2017

apd_ng said:
Who are the strongest protags?

I'm assuming it goes Sky cast > Zero > Cold steel?

Hard to say because the protags of Sky that appear in Zero and CS are already super strong beyond what was possible in the Sky trilogy.

If I were to compare when each game finishes, I would put Zero crew above the Sky crew and CS as dead last.

preta · Jan 5, 2017

apd_ng said:
Who are the strongest protags?

I'm assuming it goes Sky cast > Zero > Cold steel?

That's probably right, judging solely by what we've seen.

If we're going by individual main protagonists:

Kevin >>> Rean > Estelle > Lloyd

Nyoro SF · Jan 5, 2017

CrichtonKicks said:
Does anyone have a link for the mods that can speed up the battles in Trails PC editions? I've seen them referenced on the forum but google is failing me.

Cheat Engine, add Trails executable to program, go to tools, hotkey speedup to F1, set speed to 2 or what you like.

duckroll said:
I'm a mod and I'll ban you if you don't complete the games by next week. That should speed it up for you. Hope that helps.

estelle_scared_stiff.bmp

PK Gaming · Jan 5, 2017

ShadowSoldier89 said:
these finally came in

I want these, but I refuse to just get 1 or 2.

It's all of Class VII or bust!

CrichtonKicks · Jan 5, 2017

duckroll said:
I'm a mod and I'll ban you if you don't complete the games by next week. That should speed it up for you. Hope that helps.

Just had an image of Schera cracking the whip...

Nyoro SF said:
Cheat Engine, add Trails executable to program, go to tools, hotkey speedup to F1, set speed to 2 or what you like.

Thanks!

Moonlight · Jan 5, 2017

apd_ng said:
Who are the strongest protags?

I'm assuming it goes Sky cast > Zero > Cold steel?

It's a case by case basis. There are definitely Sky party members I would not put on the level of some of Class VII's members, but Sky probably does swing further toward having the most notable and skilled between the two, especially the core characters. I can't comment on Zero, obviously.

BassForever · Jan 5, 2017

Sky SC and Cold Steel 2 spoilers

I get rean frequently is made to look bad, but I assume at full power he would stomp any former protagonist in the series unless 3rd/zero/ao scales like crazy

duckroll · Jan 5, 2017

Yeah I agree. If we're talking about overall party average, it's a toss up I guess. If we're taking individual one on one, Rean would wipe the floor with whoever he fights, even Joshua.

PK Gaming · Jan 5, 2017

CS2 endgame spoilers

I don't have a strong grasp on powers level yet, but I still remember when Rean fucking snatched Lloyd's soul. Dude's gonna need at least 10 more games before he can walk that one off.

Holundrian · Jan 5, 2017

I feel like Zane in the state he faced Walter 1on1 can go toe to toe vs Rean.
Olivier probably too?

Moonlight · Jan 5, 2017

General spoilers for the games:

Rean at full power probably smashes every playable character in the games. Especially given that he literally has a super robot that he commands at will and teleports with. He's implied to be able to sort of hang in there with a serious McBurn assuming he's going all out, and McBurn is one of the strongest characters in the setting, if not the strongest period. Laura doesn't have much on her dad but she's still his daughter, Emma is literally a magic witch in a universe where spells are mostly understood through technology, I'd definitely rate at the very least those three over the likes of Tita, Josette, maybe even Kloe.

edit: oh yeah and I forgot Fie who definitely places pretty highly being a member of Zephyr

But then SC gets Mueller and Julia involved and they're really nuts, and Zane gets a really impressive showing with his showdown with Walter. And of course, Joshua alone is in the upper tier of fighters in the series, and Estelle is up there with him, so head to head Sky wins. But I think as bad as Class VII is made to look in the finale against some of their opponents, they're not outright worse than everyone who came before.

duckroll · Jan 5, 2017

Holundrian said:
I feel like Zane in the state he faced Walter 1on1 can go toe to toe vs Rean.
Olivier probably too?

Rean at full power, with Awakening, and Valimier? I doubt so.

Holundrian · Jan 5, 2017

duckroll said:
Rean at full power, with Awakening, and Valimier? I doubt so.

Awakened but without Valimar. I feel like his lack of experience like so many times would be his downfall.
All bets are off with Valimar though.

Scrooge McDuck · Jan 5, 2017

duckroll said:
Rean at full power, with Awakening, and Valimier? I doubt so.

But Valimar is charging his mana.

preta · Jan 5, 2017

I think that (SC/3rd)

Kevin

or (Ao)

Wazy

could take Rean, (CS)

even with Spirit Unification and probably Valimar

.

duckroll · Jan 5, 2017

Okay without Valimar, I think Rean is top-tier but it could be close even with Awakening. The main thing some of the characters like Zane, Olivier, and Kevin have over him is just plain experience. Kiseki has shown that it isn't just raw power that counts, but knowing how to best use your power. Rean is still very inexperienced. With time and training though, no one will be able to beat him out of the playable cast so far imo. That's clearly what the story is setting up too.

PK Gaming · Jan 5, 2017

Scrooge McDuck said:
But Valimar is charging his mana.

Valimar is just overkill

Awakened Rean flat out stomps most humans barring freaks like Laura's dad, Cassius (I think), the Steel Maiden and the like. When he

took on the Phantom dweeb and Duvalie at the same time, it was pretty clear his power was on a different level of magnitude, even in spite of their experience.

Scrooge McDuck · Jan 5, 2017

duckroll said:
Okay without Valimar, I think Rean is top-tier but it could be close even with Awakening. The main thing some of the characters like Zane, Olivier, and Kevin have over him is just plain experience. Kiseki has shown that it isn't just raw power that counts, but knowing how to best use your power. Rean is still very inexperienced. With time and training though, no one will be able to beat him out of the playable cast so far imo. That's clearly what the story is setting up too.

[Cold Steel II & Sky SC]

I'm guessing this would be expounded more in Sky the 3rd (which I haven't played), but McBurn specifically cited the Grails power of the Dominion - which Kevin is a member of - as a point of comparison to Rean's "mixed power". This suggests that Kevin also has some sort of a similar power.

duckroll · Jan 5, 2017

Scrooge McDuck said:
[Cold Steel II & Sky SC]

I'm guessing this would be expounded more in Sky the 3rd (which I haven't played), but McBurn specifically cited the Grails power of the Dominion - which Kevin is a member of - as a point of comparison to Rean's "mixed power". This suggests that Kevin also has some sort of a similar power.

I think Kevin is definitely top-tier, but McBurn is the strongest of -all- the enforcers, while we don't know enough about the church to know where Kevin stands among Dominions. Rean's most frightening quality imo, is his direct connection to Osborne. That's a huge wild card.

Thoraxes · Jan 5, 2017

duckroll said:
I think Kevin is definitely top-tier, but McBurn is the strongest of -all- the enforcers, while we don't know enough about the church to know where Kevin stands among Dominions. Rean's most frightening quality imo, is his direct connection to Osborne. That's a huge wild card.

Re: Kevin and the end of SC:

Kevin specifically says he's number 5. "I'm actually their number five. I've seen my fair share of fights." Campanella then says it more officially when he pops in. I'd assume the Graalsritter might actually go in order, unlike Ouroboros?

Gu4n · Jan 5, 2017

Since people are interested in this, I put together a ranking of characters sort by strength, based on comments from the games and from Kondo with additional help from Yotaka and Japanese fans. It's series-wide and thus contains spoilers: http://kiseki.wikia.com/wiki/Ranking of characters by strength

Filtered for only spoilers for FC, SC, CS and CS2:

S∞
---

S4
- Lance Maiden
- Toval's other goddess
- McBurn (demon)
- Georg Weissmann (angel)

S3
- Cassius Bright (sword)
- War God
- Rutger Claussell

SS
- Leonhardt
- Arios MacLaine
- ---
- Victor S. Arseid

S
- Cassius Bright (staff)

A+
- Kevin Graham
- Rufina Argent
- ---

A
- Walter
- Kilika Rouran
- --
- Rixia Mao
- Zane Vathek
- Bleublanc
- Luciola
- Renne Hayworth
- Wazy Hemisphere
- Duvalie
- Xeno
- Leonidas
- Sharon Kreuger
- Rufus Albarea

A-
- --
- Campanella [?]
- Kurt Nardin
- --
- Maximillian Cid
- Phillipp Reinard
- Mueller Vander
- General Morgan
- Joshua Bright
- --
- Alan Richard
- Rean Schwarzer (Spirit Fused)
- Crow Armbrust
- Neithardt
- Vulcan
- Sara Valestein
- Claire Rieveldt

Taruranto · Jan 5, 2017

apd_ng said:
Who are the strongest protags?

I'm assuming it goes Sky cast > Zero > Cold steel?

It should be CS because of people like Nepnep, Sara and Rean, but if we go by the final dungeons, these people can't event

take out Duvalie and two Jeagers.

Estelle team had no problem facing enforcers and whatnot in the final dungeon.

hans_castorp · Jan 5, 2017

Gotta be Kevin. Rean lacks the experience.

Anyway,there is no discussion Dorothy is the strongest. Afterall she is the [spioler]THE GRANDMASTER[/spoler]

Taruranto · Jan 5, 2017

hans_castorp said:
Gotta be Kevin. Rean lacks the experience.

Anyway,there is no discussion Dorothy is the strongest. Afterall she is the [spioler]THE GRANDMASTER[/spoler]

You know you joke about it, but in SC she

did something similar to what Alba did in FC. She went through a monsters filled dungeon alone. She also "accidentally" saved the group from an enforcer.

Her character design would be a bit too silly for the Grandmaster, tho'.

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