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Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

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S

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
AceBandage said:
Well, you're free to post a counter example of them not reviving an older franchise.
Click to expand...

Originally Nintendo approved Raven Blade, Thunder Rally, and NFL Football. Of course all were cancelled to shift all resources towards saving Metroid Prime. Thus, the studio is not under a mandate to just recreate older intellectual properties.

It is the general trend that all Nintendo studios usually work with the vast catalogue of Nintendo ips. Nintendo just feels their dollars are spent better that way and that their usual market reacts better. But it doesn't mean it is outlawed or forbidden for a Nintendo developer to create a new IP if Nintendo believes in it.
 
P

pramath

Banned
Could someone please post a round up of any recent news on the Wii U please? I haven't had a chance to keep up with any of it, and looking at the number of posts in this thread, apparently, there's a lot of new stuff.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
pramath said:
Could someone please post a round up of any recent news on the Wii U please? I haven't had a chance to keep up with any of it, and looking at the number of posts in this thread, apparently, there's a lot of new stuff.
Click to expand...

Umm...
There was some RAM.
A train.
Mario.
And a duck.
 
G

guek

Banned
AzaK said:
Really? Retro has done nothing but existing IP's for its entire life. None of their original games came to fruition.

I really do want to see them to their own IP with their own flavour. Nintendo just has to get the balls to do it.
Click to expand...

Retro has only worked on 3 IPs in their entire life, and up until a little over a year ago, they exclusively made metroid games. It would have been silly to say back in 2007 when corruption came out that retro's sole purpose was to revive old IPs when they had only worked on one. Since then they've developed one other game and assisted in the development of another. I'd say their involvement in MK7 and the recent comments regarding Retro and zelda shows that nintendo sees them as more than just a machine for reviving old IPs. In any case, it seems extremely improbable that they would consciously put them under such a specific banner.
 
G

Gummb

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about Rayman Legends Wii U.
Yes, Retro Studios has no contractual mandate to recreate old IPs. Even their name was created before Nintendo bought them. A guess as to their next project would have to include the possibility of a new IP, even if someone doesn't "see" it happening.

Also, good job on that hype train. I'll have to ask to join once I have a picture that works better with my name.
 
G

Gummb

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about Rayman Legends Wii U.
AceBandage said:
Just saying, don't expect a new IP from Retro any time soon.
Click to expand...

Though most likely correct, imagine if they did announce a new IP. Your posts would be irrelevant. If, however, we found out that they were reviving another old IP, our posts would still be relevant. :p

Oh arguments!
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
pramath said:
This is disappointing :(
What is it about the RAM?
Click to expand...

IdeaMan was saying he was surprised by the amount. Though, weren't you around for that discussion?

Gummb said:
Though most likely correct, imagine if they did announce a new IP. Your posts would be irrelevant. If, however, we found out that they were reviving another old IP, our posts would still be relevant. :p

Oh arguments!
Click to expand...



I look at it as "I'm right until I'm proven wrong."
:p
 
S

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
guek said:
But you could say the same about all of nintendo's studios and most likely be correct.
Click to expand...

The only division that consistantly created new intellectual properties over the last couple of years has been Nintendo SPD. Brain-Age. English Training. Rhythm Tengoku. Kiki Trick. Photo Dojo. Money Market DS. Tomodachi Collection. Most of them stayed in Japan (and Euro thanks to NOA). But whatever.
 
G

guek

Banned
Aren't there any gaffers in San Fran? We need someone to go out and seduce a game developer in town for GDC, preferably someone who works for crytek or epic, and squeeze out a couple secrets for us to munch on.

C'mon, take one for the team.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
guek said:
Aren't there any gaffers in San Fran? We need someone to go out and seduce a game developer in town for GDC, preferably someone who works for crytek or epic, and squeeze out a couple secrets for us to munch on.

C'mon, take one for the team.
Click to expand...

You want someone from GAF to seduce someone...
Nothing could possibly go wrong!
 
P

pramath

Banned
AceBandage said:
IdeaMan was saying he was surprised by the amount. Though, weren't you around for that discussion?
Click to expand...

I was? I don't think so.
Well, that's good news, right? Although it still tells us nothing. He might have been expecting like 512 MB of RAM, and was therefore surprised when it turned out to be 1 GB. Or he might have been expecting 2 GB of RAM, and was surprised when it was 4GB. We can't know either way.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
pramath said:
I was? I don't think so.
Well, that's good news, right? Although it still tells us nothing. He might have been expecting like 512 MB of RAM, and was therefore surprised when it turned out to be 1 GB. Or he might have been expecting 2 GB of RAM, and was surprised when it was 4GB. We can't know either way.
Click to expand...

Well, he was expecting 1GB, so it could be 1.5 or 2.
 
G

guek

Banned
pramath said:
2GB would be... good for another two-three years?
I dunno if Nintendo is doing enough to future proof this console.
Click to expand...

According to people much more knowledgeable than I on the subject, it's unlikely that any console released between now and 2014 will have more than 2GB of ram due to chip densities.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
Glorified G said:
Is there some kind of article stating next gen consoles won't be more than 3 gb because of the limitation of Silicon?
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None by any "journalist" no.
This is all just stuff that's been brought up by tech geeks and such.
Journalists don't really have any knowledge of how the consoles work (see IGN's original Project Cafe build).
 
G

guek

Banned
pramath said:
We'll know if it's enough when one of either Sony or Microsoft show their hand regarding their console.



Hmmm... how does that work?
Click to expand...

I'm not the best person to ask since I don't know the actual values, but apparently from how I understand it current ram chips and chips within the foreseeable future do not have high enough memory densities to make more than 2GB of ram practical for placement on a circuit board (remember, this isn't like a PC, it's all embedded) without incurring exorbitant and unreasonable extra costs.

I had a really good post bookmarked explaining it all but now it just pulls up an error message.
 
G

Glorified G

Member
AceBandage said:
None by any "journalist" no.
This is all just stuff that's been brought up by tech geeks and such.
Journalists don't really have any knowledge of how the consoles work (see IGN's original Project Cafe build).
Click to expand...

Is the limitation due to price? Or is it literally impossible to fit that much ram into a console? Couldn't they fit in 4gb of ram if ms/sony really wanted to? Like how Epic wanted 512mb instead of 256mb in the 360?
 
G

Glorified G

Member
guek said:
I'm not the best person to ask since I don't know the actual values, but apparently from how I understand it current ram chips and chips within the foreseeable future do not have high enough memory densities to make more than 2GB of ram practical for placement on a circuit board (remember, this isn't like a PC, it's all embedded) without incurring exorbitant and unreasonable extra costs.

I had a really good post bookmarked explaining it all but now it just pulls up an error message.
Click to expand...

But what's unreasonable? MS lost a shit ton in the early days of the 360 & everything turned out well for them. Even Sony is making a profit on the PS3 for a couple years now.
 
S

snowdog1971

Banned
onilink88 said:
Hype train crashed, I take it? Anyways, if you could have three third parties be on board with the Wii U, who would they be, and with what titles? For me, they'd be:

1) Atlus with Trauma Team. Among third parties, I trust them the most to make the best of the Upad.

2) Chunsoft with a text adventure. Kotaro Uchikoshi's writing + Shinji Hosoe's music + puzzles designed around the Upad would leave me in a state of perpetual elation.

3) Tri-Ace with Resonance of Fate 2. Gun customization and "map unlocking" would be a lot smoother using the touch screen. Would be cool if you could customize the characters' clothes and whatnot using the Upad. Character stats, main and sub quest info could be displayed on the tablet.
Click to expand...

1) Ubisoft with Red Steel 3, one of the very few games that doesn't use the new controller at all

2) Bethesda with Fallout 4, a Pip-Boy in the palm of your hand is going to be full of Instant Win!!!

3) Activision with any Call of Duty game that isn't based on WWII or modern warfare, enough is enough for gawd's sake!!!!!
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
Glorified G said:
Is the limitation due to price? Or is it literally impossible to fit that much ram into a console? Couldn't they fit in 4gb of ram if ms/sony really wanted to? Like how Epic wanted 512mb instead of 256mb in the 360?
Click to expand...

It's heat and price.
And 512 isn't the same as 4GB, obviously.
They COULD eat the price, but I don't see why they would.
Especially since their focus will be more on grabbing the home entertainment market and Kinect.
 
A

AzaK

Member
guek said:
Retro has only worked on 3 IPs in their entire life, and up until a little over a year ago, they exclusively made metroid games. It would have been silly to say back in 2007 when corruption came out that retro's sole purpose was to revive old IPs when they had only worked on one. Since then they've developed one other game and assisted in the development of another. I'd say their involvement in MK7 and the recent comments regarding Retro and zelda shows that nintendo sees them as more than just a machine for reviving old IPs. In any case, it seems extremely improbable that they would consciously put them under such a specific banner.
Click to expand...
I actually think DK and MK are old IP's because I meant old as in "established and been around for ages" not necessarily old IPs that we haven't seen in ages. And the IPs they have worked on haven't even originally been their studio's IPs.

Anyway, the main point I think was to suggest that there is no established practice that would have us assume Retro would be doing a new, original IP. That is a shame IMO because I think Nintendo are well overdue for it and given Retros style I would prefer them do it than anyone else.
 
G

guek

Banned
Glorified G said:
But what's unreasonable? MS lost a shit ton in the early days of the 360 & everything turned out well for them. Even Sony is making a profit on the PS3 for a couple years now.
Click to expand...

I don't believe it's as simple as that. From what I can tell it's a major architectural hurdle. Honestly, neither Ace or I seem to be the best person to ask this. You should ask blu, alstrong, dcking, bgassassin, fourth storm, or any of the other tech junkies whenever they come back online.
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
Glorified G said:
But what's unreasonable? MS lost a shit ton in the early days of the 360 & everything turned out well for them. Even Sony is making a profit on the PS3 for a couple years now.
Click to expand...



I wonder if I say AlStrong three times if he'll show up and explain it better than most of us can.

AlStrong AlStrong AlStrong!
 
G

guek

Banned
For reference, I dug up one of bgassassin's older posts and he states
bgassassin said:
GDDR5's current density is 2Gbits per chip. It would take 16 chips to reach 4GB.
Click to expand...

which is evidently a lot? Some of the discussion a few pages back regarding bus speeds seem to indicate that GDDR5 is an unlikely candidate for next gen systems(?). I may have misread those posts but that's what they seemed to say. I'm more curious about that at the moment to be honest. I'd like that to be explained in layman's terms.

edit: went back and re-read alstrong's post. I don't think that's what he was saying necessarily so nevermind I guess.
 
S

Shin Johnpv

Member
Using more than 8 ram chips, and your motherboard starts to become too complex and costly to make, and limits your ability to simplify and producer cheaper hardware down the line.

With more than 8 ram chips, the amount of traces you have to run from ram chips, to CPU/GPU starts getting CRAZY complicated.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
Terrell said:
That's like me stating Nintendo is completely incapable of making HD games and asking for an example of them making one when I get called out for it.
Click to expand...

Actually, we've seen HD screens from their games as far back as the GC.
:p

Shin Johnpv said:
Using more than 8 ram chips, and your motherboard starts to become too complex and costly to make, and limits your ability to simplify and producer cheaper hardware down the line.

With more than 8 ram chips, the amount of traces you have to run from ram chips, to CPU/GPU starts getting CRAZY complicated.
Click to expand...



There we go.
 
G

guek

Banned
Oh, I asked earlier but I don't think I got a response. Metal of Honor: Warfighter is listed several times as an upcoming Wii U game in wikipedia. Is there any credibility to this claim?
 
B

bgassassin

Member
guek said:
For reference, I dug up one of bgassassin's older posts and he states


which is evidently a lot? Some of the discussion a few pages back regarding bus speeds seem to indicate that GDDR5 is an unlikely candidate for next gen systems(?). I may have misread those posts but that's what they seemed to say. I'm more curious about that at the moment to be honest. I'd like that to be explained in layman's terms.

edit: went back and re-read alstrong's post. I don't think that's what he was saying necessarily so nevermind I guess.
Click to expand...

Looking back. The post I made after didn't even mention the bus needed for 16 chips. But GDDR5 is probably the most likely candidate for next gen actually.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
guek said:
Oh, I asked earlier but I don't think I got a response. Metal of Honor: Warfighter is listed several times as an upcoming Wii U game in wikipedia. Is there any credibility to this claim?
Click to expand...

No more than any other multiplat that's wasn't in Nintendo's E3 reel.
But it has a pretty good chance, none the less.
 
G

guek

Banned
bgassassin said:
Looking back. The post I made after didn't even mention the bus needed for 16 chips. But GDDR5 is probably the most likely candidate for next gen actually.
Click to expand...

Why is that? Alstrong seemed to suggest we'd most likely see DDR3 in the Wii U. Was that simply due to chip densities, bus speed, and the size of the console?

AceBandage said:
No more than any other multiplat that's wasn't in Nintendo's E3 reel.
But it has a pretty good chance, none the less.
Click to expand...

Then wtf is it doing listed as a Wii U game...
 
B

bgassassin

Member
guek said:
Why is that? Alstrong seemed to suggest we'd most likely see DDR3 in the Wii U. Was that simply due to chip densities, bus speed, and the size of the console?
Click to expand...

I meant that from the perspective that at least Xbox 3 and PS4 would most likely have that. And from there the bandwidth it could achieve. The eDRAM in Wii U is why DDR3 becomes a viable candidate for it.
 
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