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Chinner · Jun 28, 2011

Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
This is how they describe each of their games. Awesome and epic. And yet each game gets less awesome and epic as they go.

it's just shit PR. why is the game awesome? why is the game epic? there's no reasoning, and ME2s 'epic' endings was shit and boring.

TALI GO THERE
*shoots things as normal; wonders where all the team mates are*
*cutscene of everyone meeting up again*
MORDIN GO THERE
*shoots thing as normal; wonders where all team mates are*

and then like a hour later the game is finished.

note to bioware: mass effects 2 ending was terrible becasue there was nothing to play for. with no main story, and the rest of the game dedicated to jerking off other team mates over ilogical issues doesn't mean the suicide mission is inherently tense.

in fact, what kind of bullshit was the helping the team mates for upgrades anyway?

"alright shepard, if you help me i'll upgrade your ship so a bad cutscene doesnt happen, but first you must help me with my daddy issues"

wouldn't it be in their interest to upgrade the ship anyway, so they dont die? or do they feel the need to die because they are space-depressed?

BIOWARE YOU MAKE ME SO ANGRY.

d1rtn4p · Jun 28, 2011

Very wary of Bioware these days... Personally was disappointed with Mass Effect 2 after having loved the first game. I was expecting Shepard to shoot up some riods, whip out a chainsaw and get to high-fiving with his bros. Didn't even give Dragon Age 2 a shot due to how bad I heard it was. The company went from sight unseen purchase on my list down to wait for fan feedback before buying.

FLEABttn · Jun 28, 2011

I won't be satisfied until something awesome happens every time I press a button.

Joking aside, give us a story this time. Bioware was only able to skirt by in ME2 because of how much set up there was in ME1.

BuckRobotron · Jun 28, 2011

Skipping out on Mordin's original va is in itself not the biggest deal even though I'm disappointed. But my previous very high enthusiasm for Bioware has been waning quite a bit, even for ME3. So they don't really need to be making even minor missteps right now.

Bowdz · Jun 28, 2011

Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
This is how they describe each of their games. Awesome and epic. And yet each game gets less awesome and epic as they go.

This. I hate hearing The Doctors talk about any of their games because: a) they never say anything new, b) They describe every game the same way, and c) they enjoyed the mining mini game.

Also, I hate when VA are recast no matter the perceived improvement. Something about associating a quality and pattern of speech with a character and then having it be slightly off in the next game is extremely off putting to me. I disliked the change of VA in inFAMOUS 2 and I can't say that I have high hopes for the Mordin change in ME3.

Snuggles · Jun 28, 2011

"most exhilarating, most visceral, intense action"

No it fucking doesn't. ME's combat is tolerable at best, you are not Platinum and this is not Vanquish. You are Bioware, you don't make visceral, intense or exhilarating action games.

Yeah, it's just PR speak, but it's pretty hilarious to see them try so hard.

Derrick01 · Jun 28, 2011

Lostconfused said:
I hope that they manage to say something so ridiculous that I would have absolutely no desire left to buy this game. It's almost there but they haven't driven the final nail into that coffin just yet.

Yeah I'm looking for a great excuse to just rent this game. 2 years ago that would have been crazy talk but Bioware is such a joke now. I just can't keep supporting them going down the awful road they're on even if I was a ME whore before 2.

Xander51 · Jun 28, 2011

The Mordin news is a bummer. The E3 voice is pretty close, close enough that it just seemed early, but man, now I can't un-hear the change.

sixteen-bit · Jun 28, 2011

Snuggler said:
"most exhilarating, most visceral, intense action"

No it fucking doesn't. ME's combat is tolerable at best, you are not Platinum and this is not Vanquish. You are Bioware, you don't make visceral, intense or exhilarating action games.

Yeah, it's just PR speak, but it's pretty hilarious to see them try so hard.

It would be pretty badical if they gave Shep an AR suit :/

Bowdz · Jun 28, 2011

Snuggler said:
"most exhilarating, most visceral, intense action"

No it fucking doesn't. ME's combat is tolerable at best, you are not Platinum and this is not Vanquish. You are Bioware, you don't make visceral, intense or exhilarating action games.

Yeah, it's just PR speak, but it's pretty hilarious to see them try so hard.

Agreed. It blows my mind that they are so proud of the action in ME2. It was significantly better than ME1, but still far below TPS leaders like Gears of War, Uncharted, and Vanquish. The gameplay looks much improved in terms of movement for ME3, but my money is on it still being more sluggish compared to Gears or Uncharted.

HK-47 · Jun 28, 2011

So they fuck over their best character in a half decade...

Yup sounds like Bioware.

Chinner · Jun 28, 2011

HK-47 said:
So they fuck over their best character in a half decade...

Yup sounds like Bioware.

BRO DID YOU SEE THE OPENING THERES FUCKING REAPERS EVERYWHERE AND THEN YOU SHOOT THEM AND ITS FUCKING EPIC OH MAN BRO.

DTKT · Jun 28, 2011

Snuggler said:
"most exhilarating, most visceral, intense action"

No it fucking doesn't. ME's combat is tolerable at best, you are not Platinum and this is not Vanquish. You are Bioware, you don't make visceral, intense or exhilarating action games.

Yeah, it's just PR speak, but it's pretty hilarious to see them try so hard.

If they have the same mandate to reach a bigger audience, they really have to push that aspect.

Snuggles · Jun 28, 2011

Someone should challenge one of Bioware's mouth pieces to describe one of their games without using the words visceral, intense, exhilarating or awesome.

DTKT said:
If they have the same mandate to reach a bigger audience, they really have to push that aspect.

Yeah, I get that, and they're also clearly playing up the fact that gamers can jump right in with the last game of the trilogy. They're doing their damndest to sell their games to the people who aren't even interested in them in the first place. Maybe next they could show us this added depth and enriched RPG elements they've spoke of.

Typographenia · Jun 28, 2011

Snuggler said:
Someone should challenge one of Bioware's mouth pieces to describe one of their games without using the words visceral, intense, exhilarating or awesome.

I'd take it a step further and tell them they can't say "most."

Keyser Soze · Jun 28, 2011

The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3 are going to kill both John Riccitiello and Bioware before 2012 ends.

I cannot see Riccitiello sticking around after The Old Republic and Battlefield 3 "bomb" - compared to the high sales/subscriptions MW3 and WOW. EA are not going to "beat" Activision with like for like games.

Then, if Mass Effect 3 reviews badly, stock holder will stupidly freak out (like they did with Homefront), leading to more problems

After Riccitiello getes the shaft, Bioware will get folded into EA, and the name will die, as it is an easy way for the new guy to "fix" the problems

John Harker · Jun 28, 2011

Speedymanic said:
I still watch those early vids of ME1 and think just how amazing it could have been if BW had stuck to their original plan.

Anyway, some slightly bad news, seems they've decided to recast Mordin.

http://thegamingliberty.com/index.php/2011/06/28/mordin-solus-officially-recast-for-mass-effect-3/

What? That's horrible!

Mordin was my favorite character, and the voice actor did a PHENOMENAL job with him.
Particularly the singing.

Snuggles · Jun 28, 2011

John Harker said:
What? That's horrible!

Yeah, I don't understand that, he was easily one of the best VA's in the series. It has to be some bullshit with contracts, I don't see why they'd have a need to replace him otherwise.

Confidence Man · Jun 28, 2011

Keyser Soze said:
Then, if Mass Effect 3 reviews badly, stock holder will stupidly freak out (like they did with Homefront), leading to more problems

It's pretty much guaranteed 9s and 10s. The game is tailor made for the press to love it.

Lothars · Jun 28, 2011

Keyser Soze said:
The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3 are going to kill both John Riccitiello and Bioware before 2012 ends.

I cannot see Riccitiello sticking around after The Old Republic and Battlefield 3 "bomb" - compared to the high sales/subscriptions MW3 and WOW. EA are not going to "beat" Activision with like for like games.

Then, if Mass Effect 3 reviews badly, stock holder will stupidly freak out (like they did with Homefront), leading to more problems

After Riccitiello getes the shaft, Bioware will get folded into EA, and the name will die, as it is an easy way for the new guy to "fix" the problems

Man talk about being totally off the mark, I love how your automatically assuming basically the death of EA and Bioware with really nothing to back it up, I doubt Mass Effect 3 will be a bad game or review badly, I just don't know what you were trying to achieve with this post.

Edit: It sucks that they are recasting Mordin but I hope the new voice actor will do a good job with him.

Van Buren · Jun 28, 2011

DTKT said:
If they have the same mandate to reach a bigger audience, they really have to push that aspect.

Bioware's always been saying about reaching a wider audience with their games. For instance, this is a Baldur's Gate interview from 1998 -

The game should appeal to a wider audience. The story is as rich or richer than any RPG that I am aware of from the past, with heavy emphasis on character development and personality. This should appeal to hard-core RPG fans as well as adventure fans. And the game itself flows and plays very easily, which should appeal to fans of the more quick moving games (e.g. real time strategy, etc.).

We're really hoping that BG can pull together a lot of people with very different tastes and yet encourage all of them to play more RPG's (the best games in my humble opinion)! You can play the game in different ways - either with more subtlety, trying to solve the quests without combat and exploring more subquests, or more aggressively if you have more of a hack and slash mentality. This is not too different from AD&D - our goal has always been to make the first port of the pen and paper game with a large portion of the feature set of the original game.

Unfortunately, the difference is that instead of aiming at adventure and strategy game fans as part of the wider audience, they seem to be shooting for the COD/Shooter crowd if the E3 demo is anything to do by.

EatChildren · Jun 28, 2011

Keyser Soze said:
Then, if Mass Effect 3 reviews badly

I really cant see that happening.

Beth Cyra · Jun 28, 2011

I don't see anything to get worked up over.

Even if you don't like ME2 it's just PR Speak.

I however do like ME2 and I'm glad to see that they are carrying on elements depsite some fans bitching.

Snuggles · Jun 28, 2011

EatChildren said:
I really cant see that happening.

It won't. ME2 earned something like a 96/100 on the almighty Metacritic and I don't see ME3 doing much worse. 90+ is pretty much guaranteed.

Count of Monte Sawed-Off · Jun 28, 2011

Keyser Soze said:
The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3 are going to kill both John Riccitiello and Bioware before 2012 ends.

I cannot see Riccitiello sticking around after The Old Republic and Battlefield 3 "bomb" - compared to the high sales/subscriptions MW3 and WOW. EA are not going to "beat" Activision with like for like games.

Then, if Mass Effect 3 reviews badly, stock holder will stupidly freak out (like they did with Homefront), leading to more problems

After Riccitiello getes the shaft, Bioware will get folded into EA, and the name will die, as it is an easy way for the new guy to "fix" the problems

I think TOR will do alright (I won't play it, I'm not into MMOs). Isn't WOW kind of on the wane, it could fill that void (I think I remember reading something that said WOW player numbers was down, but I could be wrong).

No way ME3 will review badly (even if it deserves it). Bioware is just one of those companies that many reviewers feel compelled to give great reviews no matter what.

I would actually be happy though if TOR and ME3 bomb bioware back to the stone age. They can spend the rest of their existence making niche games on the Infinity Engine. That's the only way they'll ever top BG2.

Dr Zhivago · Jun 28, 2011

There's plenty of time for Mordin's VA to be recorded, seems a bit early to be declaring Bioware to be worse than Satan.

sixteen-bit · Jun 28, 2011

Snuggler said:
It won't. ME2 earned something like a 96/100 on the almighty Metacritic and I don't see ME3 doing much worse. 90+ is pretty much guaranteed.

I was surprised to see ME2 score 5 points higher than ME

Typographenia · Jun 28, 2011

TruePrime said:
I however do like ME2 and I'm glad to see that they are carrying on elements depsite some fans bitching.

I have no problem with them carrying over elements of ME2. It's just I wish we had a ME3 that was more parts ME1 than ME2.

Combat in ME2 was an improvement over 1 in regards to it being more exciting, but the fact that this continues to be the thing they rally in previews, demos, and interviews is depressing to hear, despite my common sense in knowing the dialogue and side missions are still present. It's just not what gets interest up

for some people

.

It's like Mass Effect had some weird Back to the Future 2 incident where we wound up in the "Biff rules everything" side of Mass Effect.

Snuggles · Jun 28, 2011

_dementia said:
I was surprised to see ME2 score 5 points higher than ME

I'm skimming through the reviews and one outlet even called it "sexy". Seems like a good portion of the reviews considered it an improvement over ME1.

EatChildren · Jun 28, 2011

Snuggler said:
It won't. ME2 earned something like a 96/100 on the almighty Metacritic and I don't see ME3 doing much worse. 90+ is pretty much guaranteed.

Exactly. Isn't ME2 EA's highest rated game of all time?

Feindflug · Jun 28, 2011

Keyser Soze said:
The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3 are going to kill both John Riccitiello and Bioware before 2012 ends.

I cannot see Riccitiello sticking around after The Old Republic and Battlefield 3 "bomb" - compared to the high sales/subscriptions MW3 and WOW. EA are not going to "beat" Activision with like for like games.

Then, if Mass Effect 3 reviews badly, stock holder will stupidly freak out (like they did with Homefront), leading to more problems

After Riccitiello getes the shaft, Bioware will get folded into EA, and the name will die, as it is an easy way for the new guy to "fix" the problems

This is not gonna happen, like ME2 this will be a "GOTY contender" that will get a lot of 9.5 & 10/10s...sadly.

Chinner said:
BRO DID YOU SEE THE OPENING THERES FUCKING REAPERS EVERYWHERE AND THEN YOU SHOOT THEM AND ITS FUCKING EPIC OH MAN BRO.

LOL! So true it kinda hurts..Bioware really fucked up a very promising franchise - ME1 was an amazing game.

Dupy · Jun 28, 2011

I don't bitch about much but that Mordin news is just terrible. He was the one thing in ME2 that I universally enjoyed. Bad news indeed.

DTKT · Jun 28, 2011

Snuggler said:
It won't. ME2 earned something like a 96/100 on the almighty Metacritic and I don't see ME3 doing much worse. 90+ is pretty much guaranteed.

I'm not so sure about that. DAII is rated between 79(PS3) and 82 on Metacritic. If Mass Effect 3 is a bad game, there is a good chance that part of the reviews will reflect that.

Snuggles · Jun 28, 2011

EatChildren said:
Exactly. Isn't ME2 EA's highest rated game of all time?

Yep.

So the message has been received, they don't need to appeal to RPG nerds anymore.

DTKT said:
I'm not so sure about that. DAII is rated between 79(PS3) and 82 on Metacritic. If Mass Effect 3 is a bad game, there is a good chance that part of the reviews will reflect that.

Bioware would have to seriously fuck things up for that to happen. Both sequels caught a ton of flak (on forums) for being dumbed down, but ME2 was polished and complete while DAII was widely criticized for being rushed and buggy. I think ME as a series has a lot more swagger and I'd be shocked if any major outlets give ME3 a score below a 9.

Lostconfused · Jun 28, 2011

EatChildren said:
Exactly. Isn't ME2 EA's highest rated game of all time?

Yeah. It's blow out of proportion for some reason. Didn't some one from Bioware complain that the sales of the game are nowhere near inline with the meta critic rating?

EXGN · Jun 28, 2011

Still holding for a DMC-like progression. First game was ground breaking, second was meh, third was OMGWTFBBQ.

DTKT · Jun 28, 2011

Lostconfused said:
Yeah. It's blow out of proportion for some reason. Didn't some one from Bioware complain that the sales of the game are nowhere near inline with the meta critic rating?

I'm sure that every studio would like to ship a 7mil title every single game.

epmode · Jun 28, 2011

_dementia said:
I was surprised to see ME2 score 5 points higher than ME

Yeah, it should have been even higher. Remember, the game is being reviewed, not the concept.

I'd love to have a game that lived up to Mass Effect 1 previews and concepts. But that game sure as hell isn't going to come from Bioware.

Keyser Soze · Jun 28, 2011

EatChildren said:
I really cant see that happening.

I thought the same with Dragon Age II, which is now sitting at 79 on Metacritic. Homefront is only a few points below it at 70, but those 9 points were enough to cause a shiitstorm for THQ.

Bioware have proven they are not infallible with DAII, so it is not a totally "out there" thought to think they might make similar bad decision with ME3. They are already sowing seads of doubt with the bad showing at E3 and little "fixes" they are doing. Also, there is loads of phrases in interviews that show they are going in a different, although not proven to be bad, direction

It could backfire.

I still think John Riccitiello is in trouble with just Battlefield 3 and The Old Republic anyway, and if he goes, and a Kotick style exec comes in, Bioware is probably are doomed anyway.

Lothars · Jun 28, 2011

EXGN said:
Still holding for a DMC-like progression. First game was ground breaking, second was meh, third was OMGWTFBBQ.

It's already doing better than that, first one was a great game, second game was just as good as the first and third looks to be just as good if not better.

Lucius86 · Jun 28, 2011

Snuggler said:
It won't. ME2 earned something like a 96/100 on the almighty Metacritic and I don't see ME3 doing much worse. 90+ is pretty much guaranteed.

I wouldn't be so sure. I have yet to be convinced this will be a step up from ME2 from the media I have seen so far.

I really hope it is - ME2 is one of my favorite games this gen.

EatChildren · Jun 28, 2011

DTKT said:
I'm not so sure about that. DAII is rated between 79(PS3) and 82 on Metacritic. If Mass Effect 3 is a bad game, there is a good chance that part of the reviews will reflect that.

DA2 was rushed to the market, problematic in its own right, and a frustrating change for most of the already established fanbase. Mass Effect 3 will have had a development period right in line with Mass Effect 2, and the latter is EA's highest rated game ever.

The alienated OG Mass Effect fans will continue to be vocal about how crappy the franchise is now, but the majority wont care. Unless the game takes a serious turn for the worse, which it doesn't look to be, it will be ME2 all over again: a GOTY contender and seriously high scorer.

Keyser Soze said:
I thought the same with Dragon Age II, which is now sitting at 79 on Metacritic. Homefront is only a few points below it at 70, but those 9 points were enough to cause a shiitstorm for THQ.

See above. Dragon Age II was a huge overhaul of the original game. Mass Effect 3 is not in the same situation. It looks identical to Mass Effect 2, with more.

Somtaaw · Jun 28, 2011

Chinner said:
"alright shepard, if you help me i'll upgrade your ship so a bad cutscene doesnt happen, but first you must help me with my daddy issues"

wouldn't it be in their interest to upgrade the ship anyway, so they dont die? or do they feel the need to die because they are space-depressed?

BIOWARE YOU MAKE ME SO ANGRY.

In my opnion the only squadmates worth help in me2 are Mordin. Legion and Garrus.

jim-jam bongs · Jun 28, 2011

Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
This is how they describe each of their games. Awesome and epic. And yet each game gets less awesome and epic as they go.

The bigger problem is that there are far more interesting adjectives out there, like "nuanced" or "harrowing". Declaring "awesome" and "epic" as your primary tonal goals is extremely limiting, because anything which doesn't jerk the adrenal glands is off the table.

Lothars · Jun 28, 2011

EatChildren said:
DA2 was rushed to the market, problematic in its own right, and a frustrating change for most of the already established fanbase. Mass Effect 3 will have had a development period right in line with Mass Effect 2, and the latter is EA's highest rated game ever.

The alienated OG Mass Effect fans will continue to be vocal about how crappy the franchise is now, but the majority wont care. Unless the game takes a serious turn for the worse, which it doesn't look to be, it will be ME2 all over again: a GOTY contender and seriously high scorer.

I agree fully with you, great post.

Typographenia · Jun 28, 2011

Lothars said:
It's already doing better than that, first one was a great game, second game was just as good as the first and third looks to be just as good if not better.

Nah, I enjoyed ME2. It just wasn't ME1. Just give me a good ending.

Fine Ham Abounds · Jun 28, 2011

It's funny that everyone seems to love Mordin with special emphasis on his voice. Frankly, after he started belting Pirates of Penzance, I could never unsee Sideshow Bob (yeah I know, that was Pinafore).

I won't even bother complaining that Gibert & Sullivan is like cruise control to sophitication for lazy writers, seeing as how it's already been driven home ad absurdum that Bioware's writing staff was on cruise control through ME2.

jim-jam bongs said:
The bigger problem is that there are far more interesting adjectives out there, like "nuanced" or "harrowing". Declaring "awesome" and "epic" as your primary tonal goals is extremely limiting, because anything which doesn't jerk the adrenal glands is off the table.

I got nervous for a second that you were going to suggest "gravitas." Their PR is annoying enough without presenting that stinker to them.

Keyser Soze · Jun 28, 2011

EatChildren said:
See above. Dragon Age II was a huge overhaul of the original game. Mass Effect 3 is not in the same situation. It looks identical to Mass Effect 2, with more.

We only knew Dragon Age II was a huge overhaul in the few months before release, which was confirmed upon actual release. There were only a few hints it was changing far out from it's release, with both EA and Bioware continually harping on about "not forgetting about core fans" during the games development, but that was proven to be wrong when released

EA and Bioware are doing exactly the same thing here. They are talking about little changes to make the game more friendly and reassuring the core audience things wont go wrong, without showing anything to back that up.

If DAII went wrong, then there is nothing stopping it happening to ME3. We don't know enough yet to say yes or no.

MrMephistoX · Jun 28, 2011

EatChildren said:
DA2 was rushed to the market, problematic in its own right, and a frustrating change for most of the already established fanbase. Mass Effect 3 will have had a development period right in line with Mass Effect 2, and the latter is EA's highest rated game ever.

The alienated OG Mass Effect fans will continue to be vocal about how crappy the franchise is now, but the majority wont care. Unless the game takes a serious turn for the worse, which it doesn't look to be, it will be ME2 all over again: a GOTY contender and seriously high scorer.

See above. Dragon Age II was a huge overhaul of the original game. Mass Effect 3 is not in the same situation. It looks identical to Mass Effect 2, with more.

I definitely prefer ME1's story and epic feel but ME2 hits the middle of the road Two Tower's, Empire Strikes back vibe. People tend to have high expectations for the middle part of any trilogy and tend to not enjoy any shred of a cliff hanger. 2 was not supposed to be a self contained story and I have faith that Bioware can pull this off.

Trojita · Jun 28, 2011

Speedymanic said:
Anyway, some slightly bad news, seems they've decided to recast Mordin.

Quote:
You are correct. That is not my voice you heard in the Mass Effect 3 trailer. As you know, I had a blast giving voice to Mordin in Mass Effect 2 and would love to reprise my role in ME3. However, as of this writing, I have not recorded anything for ME3 nor have I signed a contract to do so.

Wow....

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