ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Priiloader is used for pirating?
Well, what do you suggest I do to transfer my saves? IOS236+StartPatch is a nonstarter.
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GAF Wii Homebrew thread: Homebrew, emulators, USB disc installs! Easy tutorial!
- Thread starter radioheadrule83
- Start date
Priiloader is used for pirating?
Well, what do you suggest I do to transfer my saves? IOS236+StartPatch is a nonstarter.
Got an issue.
Trying to copy Metroid Prime Trilogy to USB using CFG loader, and it throws me a ret -2 error. All other discs work, but the dual layer ones don't. The loader won't even recognise the disc, just displays the error. Discs load fine using the Wii disc channel.
Wasn't able to copy Xenoblade either. Had to copy it using a mate's Wii console. I've got the newest d2x installed, so it should work fine, right?
Trying to copy Metroid Prime Trilogy to USB using CFG loader, and it throws me a ret -2 error. All other discs work, but the dual layer ones don't. The loader won't even recognise the disc, just displays the error. Discs load fine using the Wii disc channel.
Wasn't able to copy Xenoblade either. Had to copy it using a mate's Wii console. I've got the newest d2x installed, so it should work fine, right?
Hey guys, wondered if you can give me any help.
I cannot get CFG USB loader to successfully rip Donkey Kong Country Returns. At about the 90% mark it gets a bunch of disc read errors (the disc itself is immaculate and the drive is capable of playing/ripping my other games - DKC unfortunately prompts for a system update so I cannot test its playability) before continuing on with the rip. Upon trying to boot, it spends ages at the "warning, tie the wrist strap/don't be near loved ones when swinging/etc." screen before just moving onto a black screen where my only option is to hold down the power button for five seconds to kill the machine.
I followed the GAF tutorial step by step, with the sole exception of using a newer version of CFG USB loader per the recommendation of the software's programmer.
If anyone can provide any help I'd greatly appreciate it.
I cannot get CFG USB loader to successfully rip Donkey Kong Country Returns. At about the 90% mark it gets a bunch of disc read errors (the disc itself is immaculate and the drive is capable of playing/ripping my other games - DKC unfortunately prompts for a system update so I cannot test its playability) before continuing on with the rip. Upon trying to boot, it spends ages at the "warning, tie the wrist strap/don't be near loved ones when swinging/etc." screen before just moving onto a black screen where my only option is to hold down the power button for five seconds to kill the machine.
I followed the GAF tutorial step by step, with the sole exception of using a newer version of CFG USB loader per the recommendation of the software's programmer.
If anyone can provide any help I'd greatly appreciate it.
Chuckpebble
Member
That's the error I was getting after my drive motor had just died. I think its just a generic disk read error, not specific to any reason why. You definitely aren't in as serious of a situation as I was, though if its working fine with other games. Maybe try a disk cleaning kit?
HisshouBuraiKen
Member
So did development stop on CFG or is there just no more work to do? I tried checking for updates for the first time in a while yesterday and it's still on version 70.
Attackthebase
Member
Forgot to repost in this thread after I finished hacking my Wii. I foolishly misread a section on the Gaf Homebrew item, which caused some problem. Anyway, I'm now a happy owner of a homebrew Wii.
Just to confirm: Aside from losing the ability to play GCN games (I don't lament this too badly) and backup discs (which I don't care too much about, would rather use USB backups), buying one of the newer Wiis compared to the older models doesn't lock me out of anything else major? I see something about having to run BootMii from The Homebrew Channel, but that's not something I will typically have to worry about once I have everything set up, correct?
Predominantly, but it does have other uses provided you use it responsibly, just like Cfg, cIOSes and everything else. Priiloader's dark history is the main reason I avoid it.
The error is a generic one that happens for a variety of drive related reasons. I would have to guess that there is just one part of the disc that your drive has trouble reading. That isn't an issue for playing the games as it must be luckily in an area that isn't needed by the games, or it could have something to do with trying to read that whole section in sequence. The only thing I can suggest is trying CleanRip to rip a disc to see if it has issues too.
My guess is it has something to do with the disc. The disc update is safe, provided your homebrew is up to date, so just run it, maybe. I don't know how you could be using a newer version of Cfg as the latest version is the one that's linked on the tutorial and I'm one of the Cfg's programmers.
Development is paused as there's nothing much to do right now. Everything works except a handful of games which actively search for homebrew, there are no major bugs and no fun features to implement.
Yep, that's everything, I think.
I want to have a fully 3D space where my Mii walks up to a shelf to pick a game and opens the case and inserts the disc into a Wii instead of a Cover Flow-like interface. Get to work.
Isn't that the job of Pikmins?
My bad, it was one of the earlier steps' programs that was done with a newer revision, not CFG.
Anyway, ran the update and yeah - the disc itself cannot be read. Shall have to go get that replaced. Strange because it looks spotless. Oh well. Thank you for your help.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Perhaps if we gave it a web-cam interface which you pointed at your library so you can watch yourself go and collect your disc...
Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands was the first. Most Ubisoft games each do something new. They're currently trying to figure out wrokarounds for Tintin apparently. There's a smattering of other recent games too.Which games search for homebrew? I've got like 75 games and none of those do
MikeE21286
Member
TheNatural
My Member!
I did the USB loader steps a while back, basically this is what I've done so far:
Used Letterbomb exploit to install BootMii and the Homebrew Channel. Installed Homebrew Browser from the Homebrew Channel. Installed the USB loader by using IOS 236 installer and d2x installer from the Homebrew Channel.
So right now I have an apps folder, bootmii folder, nus folder, private folder, and boot.elf with various text files with info on things installed.
My question is, can I go in Homebrew Channel and delete the IOS 236 and d2x installer after I use them, or do I still need them? Also, can I delete the Letterbomb stuff, which I think is just the private folder and boot.elf stuff?
Dunno what the nus folder is, but I believe it's the IOS stuff. Just trying to get rid of some of this bloat off my SD card and save some space if possible.
Used Letterbomb exploit to install BootMii and the Homebrew Channel. Installed Homebrew Browser from the Homebrew Channel. Installed the USB loader by using IOS 236 installer and d2x installer from the Homebrew Channel.
So right now I have an apps folder, bootmii folder, nus folder, private folder, and boot.elf with various text files with info on things installed.
My question is, can I go in Homebrew Channel and delete the IOS 236 and d2x installer after I use them, or do I still need them? Also, can I delete the Letterbomb stuff, which I think is just the private folder and boot.elf stuff?
Dunno what the nus folder is, but I believe it's the IOS stuff. Just trying to get rid of some of this bloat off my SD card and save some space if possible.
You can delete pretty much everything except the apps and usb-loader folders. Within the apps folders, you can delete any apps which you never need to run again, which would be everything except the Homebrew Browser, USB Loader and any other apps you want to still use.
TheNatural
My Member!
The bootmii is still needed though right, at least if you want to use it?
Is the nus folder necessary? I don't even know what that is. It has a couple of folders that look like 000000001000000038v5661 and files inside with 0000000a 000000002 generic files inside.
EDIT: Mission accomplished. Just tried moving them all except the apps folder. BootMii didn't launch, so moved that folder back. I'm guessing the rest are expendable.
Good heavens, ModDog; I struggle to name 20 decent Wii titles off the top of my head, let alone 75.Which games search for homebrew? I've got like 75 games and none of those do
Yes, the bootmii folder is useful for BootMii. The NUS folder contains updates from the Nintendo Update Server. These were likely downloaded by one of the cIOSes and are no longer needed.
TheNatural
My Member!
Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I don't give Clipper enough cred, must get a headache wading through this thread and trying to answer everyone's questions. I don't know why he keeps coming back.
Major props man.
Major props man.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Are you using your work on the CFG loader anywhere else or is Wii development so specialised that it's basically all lost after you move on to other stuff (so soon, with the system being dead)? It would be pretty rad to get similar loaders and such for any hacked system that can accomodate one and also open systems like PC... Maybe you could even sell your program for a few bucks on that, lots of people do want a nice intuitive big mode launcher for comfy couch PC gaming... Or even outside that, I don't PC game on TV but I always wanted a gog-style view for my PC library... Just thinking out loud...
It's not so bad here. It's the Club Nintendo thread which tends to infuriate me, with the same questions getting asked over and over again, and sometimes I think it's people that we already answered that never bothered to see if their first post was answered (which it likely was within a day) and come back a month later to ask again. That has happened on occasion in here, but not nearly as often, which makes it enjoyable.I don't give Clipper enough cred, must get a headache wading through this thread and trying to answer everyone's questions. I don't know why he keeps coming back.
Major props man.
I'm glad that I've given up on the GBA Temp thread, though. The expectancy to pirate from the community there was just too much to stomach.
It's rather Wii specific and wouldn't port well to other systems, I'd assume. It makes a lot of assumptions as to the fixed screen resolution and so on. Besides, the majority of the code was written by the creator, I just added some features here and there.
I have no clue what that is. Only thing I can think of that you might mean is the Twilight Hack, but then I don't know why you'd want it. It hasn't worked in many years now.
Could you perhaps explain what you want a little better?
Nintendo patched a game breaking bug for Skyward Sword by releasing a channel via their internet service(dunno what its called). You have to connect to Nintendo to get it. I have my Wii homebrewed the way I want it, and I don't want to re-do everything when all I need is the .wad file. I figured someone has the Wad file that installs the channel, that install the patch, which saves me from re-hacking my wii.
TheNatural
My Member!
1) I agree, GBA temp is a pirate haven. I don't understand why so many people are obsessed with big 200 GB collections of Wii games that they won't even play.
2) I think he's talking about the Skyward Sword channel/patch for the glitch in Skyward Sword where if you complete a part of the game in a certain way and talk to a Goron in the game afterwards, it will trap the game in not letting the next scripted action take place and you're stuck and literally have to restart the game.
I saw a thread on GBA temp about it, I guess a way for US gamers to get the patch. As far as I understand though, whenever I read the solution it seemed to be a "in case of emergency" type patch where if you were stuck at that point, using the patch would fix it. Not necessarily preventing the events from happening. But I'm not completely sure.
TheNatural
My Member!
They never released the patch in the US/Europe (yet.) I don't know if someone took the Japanese patch and made it available for everyone though.
All you gotta do is follow these steps not to glitch it:
http://techforums.nintendo.com/message/55980
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Sorry if I don't multiquote, on secondapps.
So in the end if I leave it on 4.0 (already resolved at the time the "bug" that made the Wii S Resorts M+ video play each time by disc) and have already the Wii Shop, provided I apply Start Patch I'm good to go to lend it to the friends? I tried Meteo and News through Wiiconnect 24 and it didn't ask me to upgrade the firmware, is it possible it'll do it while in sleep mode or ask them to upgrade the firmware once you turn the Wii on? I noticed it asks me to update when you set up a new type of internet connection, will Start Patch block that?
Also, I've followed dx2 update and Hermes222/223 and also ios236 update on the tutorial + xml steps for CFG(v70), but now Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't load anymore through CFG (and my disc is in Milano where I have my red Wii), tried 222/223yload, 249. 250 etc... Always a green screen. It is the only game that gives me problems.
Anything I can do? If I re-rip the disc through the Wii (next month tho, ugh) will it work again?
About the new horizontal-only Wii models:
Sucks about no Gamecube BC (fuck that means I can't use my Wavebird pad anymore, nooooo!), but I don't care for burnt discs anyway. So I'm good to go then, gonna buy it tomorrow!
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Would anybody be so kind to send me the boot2v4.wad file? I can't use NUS downloader (doesn't work on OSX)
Also, what IOS should I choose when Dop Mi WBE asks me that? It seems to default to IOS61, is that right?
Also, what IOS should I choose when Dop Mi WBE asks me that? It seems to default to IOS61, is that right?
A what-if that's sprung to mind (I appreciate that it's far too early to lock down concrete answers, but I'm wondering if my ideas about potential issues could come true.)
We've seen from the DSi->3DS license transfer tool that Nintendo's approach to allowing you to move games from previous-gen system to next-gen system involves running an app to handover the licenses (rather than the account-based system many people want).
I'm wondering how, potentially, homebrew could interfere with that if they were to use a similar system for Wii -> WiiU.
* Would Nintendo be reluctant to allow it at all due to the hypothetical possibility of faking licenses?
* Assuming the app in question can detect a homebrew Wii and disallow exporting from it, could a homebrew application accomplish the same effect?
We've seen from the DSi->3DS license transfer tool that Nintendo's approach to allowing you to move games from previous-gen system to next-gen system involves running an app to handover the licenses (rather than the account-based system many people want).
I'm wondering how, potentially, homebrew could interfere with that if they were to use a similar system for Wii -> WiiU.
* Would Nintendo be reluctant to allow it at all due to the hypothetical possibility of faking licenses?
* Assuming the app in question can detect a homebrew Wii and disallow exporting from it, could a homebrew application accomplish the same effect?
I think that pirate VC/Wiiware games can easily get detected because the fakesign, even fakesigned IOS leave prints. In the end all depends how it will interact with Wii U (if transfers are available that is), it should work with Wii Shop Channel account to detect legal downloaded games, that would be ideal becuase it wouldn't care about Wii/HBC modifications, if Wii U was to check games directly on NAND it could more hard get rid-off HBC traces I think.
RIIIIGHT
Installed cleanrip, then installed ios58 as it requested. Realised that for some reason, NTFS wasn't working - so had to rip it onto my FAT usb stick in 3gb chunks.
An hour and a half later, it was done. Copied the files to my PC, used HJSplit to merge them into one ISO, then used backup manager to copy it onto the usb stick in the correct format so cfg will load it.
AND IT WORKED
yay
Nothing in the current update code deletes any part of the homebrew that I can imagine you have installed, so even if they do release the patching channel for other Wiis, you should be able to just go via the shop. There would be nothing to redo, provided you have the homebrew up to date. Also, distributing said file would be piracy, even though it's free.
WiiConnect 24 does not pre-download updates. It only exchanges messages. Also, any firmware update always comes with a warning screen, and you can use StartPatch to make it so that both the online and disc type updates fail even if someone were to start one. There's no risk in actually updating to 4.3 if you are already on 4.0 either, though. I'd actually recommend it these days.
Is the drive formatted as WBFS? If so, then it's likely the WBFS corruption issue. If not, then a rerip should help, but I don't know why it would have suddenly failed as the other format types have seemed stable so far.
Yeah, no port to plug the Wavebird receiver in.
It's illegal to send around the WADs. NUS Downloader skirts this issue by downloading directly from Nintendo's update service. This is the reason why there is a Wiibrew Edition of Dop-Mii. Dop-Mii's other, older method actually included a .wad of boot2v4 compiled into the app, which was eventually discovered and caused a lot of contention.Would anybody be so kind to send me the boot2v4.wad file? I can't use NUS downloader (doesn't work on OSX)
Also, what IOS should I choose when Dop Mi WBE asks me that? It seems to default to IOS61, is that right?
I would think that they would be more likely to tie it into the account on the transfer system they build into Wii U. There was a time where you could trick your Wii into downloading channels from the Wii Shop by installing fake tickets onto the Wii, but they also have the account info to back those up.
I doubt they'd go to the point of trying to detect homebrew before transfer either. If they were, then there would be homebrew apps made to clean your Wii of whatever they were detecting. Nintendo knows this, so they know that it's not worth implementing. Going via the account system would make things a lot stronger as that has never been compromised as far as I know.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Welp, partitioning 10GB of my NTFS HDD into FAT32 was super simple with Win7's disk manager after all, I didn't have to copy stuff back and forth or anything and everything homebrew seems to work just fine without any reconfiguring whatsoever. Plus, I realised I've got so few WiiWare/VC games they can all fit in the Wii's internal memory and then some. I basically have no need for the SDHC now, so it can be used exclusively for photographing. Thanks
Cool. Got a replacement disc for Donkey Kong and it installed a treat. Thanks for the advice.
But actually another question - what is the typical time frame on having the covers for a game uploaded? Right now my Skyward Sword (UK PAL) only has a low-resolution front cover available to download, which is a bit of an eye-sore.
But actually another question - what is the typical time frame on having the covers for a game uploaded? Right now my Skyward Sword (UK PAL) only has a low-resolution front cover available to download, which is a bit of an eye-sore.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Hey Clipper thanks a lot for the answers, much appeciated..
I get what you're saying about wads and Dop-Mii but the problem was that since the WBE doesn't let you download the boot2v4.wad from the internet (contrary to what the GAF wiki says), if you don't have a Windows PC to run NUS you're screwed.
Anyway, done everything, Wii updated to 4.3E, every IOS/step on the guide is up to date and everything runs as it should.
Mario Galay 2: yes, my drive is formatted in wbfs. But I'm not going to re-format it in FAT32/NT
FS and re-rip all of my 70 Wii games, also because the conveniency in the first place was the I have maybe half of my games in my hometown and the other half at my house in a different city, different Wii. Can't bring with me all those discs. Unless you can make a FAT32 partition post-facto? Using the free space of the hard disk maybe?Anyway, hopefully if I only re-rip Galaxy 2 now with IOS 248 it'll work again? What I don't get is why it worked before with mmload 223 +002fix but it doesn't anymore.
I get what you're saying about wads and Dop-Mii but the problem was that since the WBE doesn't let you download the boot2v4.wad from the internet (contrary to what the GAF wiki says), if you don't have a Windows PC to run NUS you're screwed.
Anyway, done everything, Wii updated to 4.3E, every IOS/step on the guide is up to date and everything runs as it should.
Mario Galay 2: yes, my drive is formatted in wbfs. But I'm not going to re-format it in FAT32/NT
FS and re-rip all of my 70 Wii games, also because the conveniency in the first place was the I have maybe half of my games in my hometown and the other half at my house in a different city, different Wii. Can't bring with me all those discs. Unless you can make a FAT32 partition post-facto? Using the free space of the hard disk maybe?Anyway, hopefully if I only re-rip Galaxy 2 now with IOS 248 it'll work again? What I don't get is why it worked before with mmload 223 +002fix but it doesn't anymore.
Take another look at the GAF Wiki, I updated that section already. Unforutnately, it doesn't come with a direct solution for non-Windows.
However, read my previous post again carefully, an answer for you is in there, just not directly specified.
As for SMG2, then yes, you are getting the infamous WBFS corruption. As you install more games, SMG2 might start working again, but others will start to fail. Reinstalling SMG2 would likely get it to work again, but other games would likely get corrupted in its place. It seems very random once you start getting it and I don't know of a fix. It does usually happen at around the 60-70 game mark.
Unfortunately, no, you can't make a FAT32 partition from a WBFS one. As WBFS is not an official format type, it is not supported by any partition managers and they cannot resize an existing WBFS partition. If you have enough space on your Mac, then you can use the Mac version of the wbfs tool listed on the WBFS to FAT transfer page to copy the games, reformat the drive, then copy the games back.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Ran into an interesting scenario tonight.
Trying to play a region 2 (PAL, Europe) DVD on my NTSC Wii (set to 480p over component to widescreen HDTV) using WiiMC. DVD works fine, but I need to aim about 100 pixels to the right of the menu option I want to choose on the DVD menu. I'm not sure if this is some sort of PAL SD -> NTSC SD issue or a WiiMC issue.
I normally rip all my DVDs and so I don't run into this crap, but these particular DVDs have a ton of special features and it's easier to watch than rip and the Wii is the only thing I have hooked up to a TV that plays region free DVDs
Is it possible to use the d-pad with WiiMC DVD menus? That'd "solve" my problem probably the easiest.
Edit:
http://www.wiimc.org/tracker/index.php?do=details&task_id=377
I guess this is a known issue and they don't have a fix. D'oh.
Trying to play a region 2 (PAL, Europe) DVD on my NTSC Wii (set to 480p over component to widescreen HDTV) using WiiMC. DVD works fine, but I need to aim about 100 pixels to the right of the menu option I want to choose on the DVD menu. I'm not sure if this is some sort of PAL SD -> NTSC SD issue or a WiiMC issue.
I normally rip all my DVDs and so I don't run into this crap, but these particular DVDs have a ton of special features and it's easier to watch than rip and the Wii is the only thing I have hooked up to a TV that plays region free DVDs
Is it possible to use the d-pad with WiiMC DVD menus? That'd "solve" my problem probably the easiest.
Edit:
http://www.wiimc.org/tracker/index.php?do=details&task_id=377
I guess this is a known issue and they don't have a fix. D'oh.
This might sound a bit odd, but is there any way to use homebrew to transfer Gamecube saves from a GC memory card plugged into the Wii onto the SD card, and then onto PC? Once there, would Dolphin be able to make use of them or is there a way to translate them?
centracore
Member
Just picked up a Wii off of Craigslist for $50, was working my way through the GAF Homebrew Tutorial and ran into an issue.. When trying to install IOS236 my Wii is spitting out the error:
Hoping someone can help me with this.. My Wii is connected to the internet via wifi so from what I read it should be downloading these files automatically? The other option is to use NUS Downloader apparently, but I don't have a Windows PC in the house (all Macs) so I don't think I can do that.
Hoping someone can help me with this.. My Wii is connected to the internet via wifi so from what I read it should be downloading these files automatically? The other option is to use NUS Downloader apparently, but I don't have a Windows PC in the house (all Macs) so I don't think I can do that.
In the options (when installing 236 on the Wii), choose NUS Downloader to download the files directly; otherwise..the first options are to get the files from the SD or the USB.
In that case, it seems that the you chose SD (the first option); since it's looking for the wads that are supposed to be there in that case.
I'm intermittently getting a huge crash dump when starting games via CFG. CFG itself loads fine, it lists the games, I hit a game and click "Start" and I get a black screen with a ton of scrolling text that ends with "restarting in 60 seconds." What's really weird is that when it restarts, if I repeat the exact same process the game loads and plays perfectly.
My enclosure: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001A4HAFS/?tag=neogaf0e-20
The HDD is a 120GB Seagate SATA drive.
Any suggestions?
Another problem I have is that FCEUGX is incredibly slow reading from the hard drive, i.e. 30+ seconds to read a directory listing and another 30+ seconds to load the game.
My enclosure: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001A4HAFS/?tag=neogaf0e-20
The HDD is a 120GB Seagate SATA drive.
Any suggestions?
Another problem I have is that FCEUGX is incredibly slow reading from the hard drive, i.e. 30+ seconds to read a directory listing and another 30+ seconds to load the game.
centracore
Member
Thanks fernoca, didn't realize I could push left or right to cycle through various options on that step. I feel so stupid now.. :/
No problem, actually was going to add that bit. (To keep in mind that you can press up, down, left and right to choose options). For d2X, follow the procedure carefully since you have to specify 3 thing individually (version, base and slot); all the same way (up, down, left, right).
centracore
Member
So I went out and bought a Wii MotionPlus controller as the system only came with an original one and I couldn't find the add-on piece anywhere. Synced it up to the Wii by pressing the red sync button on the controller, then while the lights are flashing on it pressed the red sync button on the Wii. It works fine with the system, but if I launch The Homebrew Channel Channel or the Configurable USB Loader it seems to disconnect itself from the system and won't respond - but the original controller the system came with works fine in both of those. Any ideas what could be wrong? This is driving me crazy!
Chuckpebble mentioned this earlier. Seems the issue is more widespread than I thought. Basically, newer controllers with Motion Plus are not compatible with it (even when a few newer ones like the gold one from Zelda works).
Here's what he posted:
The solution would be to buy one from before November either used or new. Gamestop sells the standalone add-ons as used (and new) also. Gamestop also has the FlingSmash bundle for like $30 (game + black controller with Plus-built-in).
A few stores have the Red Steel 2 bundle (game + accessory) for under $20.
canadian crowe
Member
I'm having a pretty frustrating problem. I'm trying to load Configurable USB, but it will only detect my HDD when i switch the IOS to 246. The other problem is that when I switch to IOS246 it changes the interface of Configurable to the default one.
I should be up to date since I followed the faq to the letter.
Any ideas on how to fix this?
I should be up to date since I followed the faq to the letter.
Any ideas on how to fix this?
centracore
Member
Thanks again fernoca, I guess I will just have to live with it for now.. I was thinking I had screwed something up and that's why it wasn't working - at least now I know I didn't!
MikeE21286
Member
Question:
Loading backups on a 4.3U Wii through the Disc Channel, is that possible?
Loading backups on a 4.3U Wii through the Disc Channel, is that possible?