The parts closest to your eyes, but not the tip, I'm guessing. If it IS like wearing ski goggles with blinders on.
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Inserting a virtual nose in VR could reduce simulator sickness
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The parts closest to your eyes, but not the tip, I'm guessing. If it IS like wearing ski goggles with blinders on.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Get the GameStop exclusive "Spunky Nose Stud" for 10% faster hacking in Watch_Dogs 2.
That's interesting. My nose isn't very prominent in my vision when looking straight ahead, its mainly just a bit of fuzz, but simulating that bit of fuzz, rather than having a giant on-screen nose you cant ignore, could be an interesting experiment in a real game.
It obviously isn't any cure-all, but anything that helps is great. I do have a feeling that good design practices and performance/latency are still a bit more key and that if a game was going to make you feel sick, this probably wouldn't stop it, which is still no good. Prolonging usage without sickness might be a step, but ultimately, we need to get to a point where sickness isn't there at all.
Maybe the darkness stops our nose from being visible while wearing the headset?
It obviously isn't any cure-all, but anything that helps is great. I do have a feeling that good design practices and performance/latency are still a bit more key and that if a game was going to make you feel sick, this probably wouldn't stop it, which is still no good. Prolonging usage without sickness might be a step, but ultimately, we need to get to a point where sickness isn't there at all.
Yea, that's a good question. I don't have an HMD to test out, but it'd be great if somebody did. I would guess that the FoV should definitely allow to at least see that far to our inside(while looking straight ahead).
Maybe the darkness stops our nose from being visible while wearing the headset?
magnumpy
Member
there's also the issue of everybodys nose being different. maybe you'd go through some type of setup where you'd specify your race/skin tone.
btw, it would be cool to play as a green goblin!
pitcairn55
Member
I find it interesting that I am never conscious of seeing my nose when I look straight forward, but according to the article that's just because my brain is tuning it out. And apparently you aren't conscious of the nasum virtualis either.
Great. I can't escape my big nose in real life being in my field of view, and now you all are invading my VR life!!!!!
Sounds pretty neat actually. Maybe an on/off for FPS games?
Edit: They're calling it "Nasum Virtualis". That's so cool and scientific! Lol
Stop lying all the time and your problem should go away
HMDs sit on you nose with the lenses almost touching your eyes so no you don't see your nose just the screens.
I never noticed a lack of nose in VR but maybe the addition of a virtual one could help some people.It's worth a try.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
2.2 seconds can decide between losing and winning a race in F-Zero GX, easily!
Fried Food
Banned
I suppose. It would have to be way smaller than the one in that picture. Also it would need to be transparent
Marvel
could never
LOL, same.
hobblygobbly
Member
If you wear glasses the same happens. Your brain cancels it out unless you bring attention to it (like I just did now when typing this out... lol)
Yea, that's a pretty useless improvement that could easily be a margin of error. But I think it says more about the experience/software than it does about the effectiveness of this technique.
Though I mean, if we continue to chip away at the problem, small improvements could add up and we may well find that in 20-30 years or so, we can get away with a lot of stuff we cant now. Kind of like the development of a race car. Try and improve in every little area you can find, and while the individual improvements aren't worth a whole lot on their own, the sum of all the improvements can prove significant. Basically, VR needs to be tackled from every angle. Its still a very fresh field so there's no doubt a ton of room for improvement.
I wonder if it'll be possible at all to trick the internal ear someday, maybe with pressurized headphones or whatnot.
That could be some pretty powerful stuff.
Muskieratboi
Member
oh lord.. we're getting muzzlecam, aren't we?
Yes. It's called a Galvanic Vestibular Stimulator.
But it's not exactly safe for general home use.
Regarding this research. Interesting stuff. I know motion sickness is largely a result of vestibular (inner ear balance/movement) and vection (how visual information moves across your retina to provide you with movement information of your head/eyes/body) mismatch.
There are several techniques you can employ to reduce the mismatch. I suppose this falls into the category of reducing visual information bandwidth... and thus the degree of vection mismatch. A more salient example of such a technique might be to forcibly reduce the FOV. If the FOV were tiny like 20 degrees... I predict that vection mismatch becomes much less of a problem for most people.
Given that we generally want FOV for presence... I think the more robust motion sickness reduction measure might be to bring in the holo-grid whenever vection mismatch above a certain threshold occurs. The hologrid provides a fixed frame of reference that allows your brain to hook onto the motion expectation of that fixed frame rather than the moving frame. Which is why cockpit sims seem to be more salient for most users as far as VR goes.
Yeah vection is lower in lower fields of view, but as far as I'm aware from research it did not necessarily lead to lower simulator sickness (perhaps lower vection was offset by more visual information from the head/camera movement to take up the scene). And if it did you could wonder whether low FOV is really desirable. It's a bit of catch-22. Vection is a result of presence; tricking your brain is what you're trying to accomplish in the first place. The moment you stop experiencing vection, is the moment HMDs become redundant.
Prevolition
Member
I first read the title as "Inserting a virtual finger in VR nose..."
You already have my greenlight vote.
Ragarding FOV, i'm very prone to motion sickness with FPS games, and for me it's virtually impossible to play FPS on console because of the narrow FOV.
Ideally i need a FOV between 90 and 110 degrees, to not get sickness (and still i favor games where you don't have to jerk the camera around a lot).
I'm not sure narrow FOV would help.
Also, on a more general note, i think dialing back visual stimuli to match the stationary inner ear, is just a band-aid, short term solution.
Striving to employ it in the long run, i see as a defeatist attitude, and something that would greatly limit the boundaries of VR.
That's why i would like them to go the opposite direction.
You can't equate console FOV with VR FOV mainly because non VR FOV isn't orthographic (for the most part) - where the perspective lines and scale matches up with your natural sense of perspective and scale.
Reducing FOV in VR would be more like viewing the world through a reduced viewport... maybe like wearing a divers helmet, or looking through snow goggles or tubes.
I'm not sure if that will or won't work... but generally, it's not a great solution for reducing motion sickness (if it does work).
What reasonable and realistic solutions would you have for going in the opposite direction, accounting for cost of technology and development and developer justificaiton for implementing support, etc, etc.
I mean... if I'm interpreting you correctly - you mean to make VR incorporate more motion in order to match the visuals. Problem is, if you want VR to have a broad userbase, you have to account for most reasonable user scenarios which don't include significant amounts of space (or money). You want a broad userbase so that developers can justify more elaborate fully featured experiences.
The alternative are various brain/sensory stimulation tech like the galvanic vestibular stimulator.
That's perfectly normal, your brain generally "edits out" the presence of your nose just like it does blinking.
Puppet Shadow
Member
For people that do get simulator sickness, does this mean they are more prone to getting nauseous while doing activities that require goggles, such as snow boarding?
GhostTrick
Banned
My nose isn't that big !! :/
Polioliolio
Member
I agree with you, it's why i'm saying on the short term they have to bring down visual to match body.
In long term (20/30 years) however i hope we can find a better solution that will not be as limiting.
The concept seems a bit weird as I don't see my nose most of the time. You can become aware of the dead space around that section of your face, but usually the nose isn't large or long enough to see under most circumstances. I literally have to go cross-eyed to see my own nose without a mirror of some sort.
Edit: using a nose as a fixed point on the screen would probably help. It helps to give some sense of movement through the world while the person themselves are 100% stationary.
Edit: using a nose as a fixed point on the screen would probably help. It helps to give some sense of movement through the world while the person themselves are 100% stationary.
JordanN
Banned
Skull joke!
But I don't even have any eyes to see! Yohoho!
Well... 20 to 30 years (maybe less) down the track, we're likely to see the birth and rapid maturity of brain-link VR technology. It's about the right time frame once you account for rapid exponential technology acceleration.
ArchedThunder
Banned
First person noses...
Next gen is here.
Next gen is here.
Irishmantis
Member
If its an option and you pick size or colour then why not
people cant complain then, and i think it makes sense
people cant complain then, and i think it makes sense
Weltall Zero
Member
Um... so how many total seconds are we talking about here before feeling sick?
There is a very quiet up-hill battle happening with VR right now, I'm assuming... these numbers are scary! If we're talking total sick-free play time of, say, 5 minutes... what's the point of all of this?
"Now people can play for 6.5 seconds, instead of just 5 seconds! Progress!"
No... not really... wtf?
They wouldn't be talking these numbers if it was, say 60 minutes vs 61.5 minutes... Heck, even that would be pretty terrible...
Edit: Ok, I had to remind myself that this is a roller coaster simulation... lol
So we will all be wearing goggles in VR... won't we...
Future PhaZe
Member
Yea, this is why I don't think tech will fix the sickness issue. Your body is already convinced, and it's reacting appropriately.
Only question is if it's something people can train themselves to get over.
Only question is if it's something people can train themselves to get over.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Our ears control our sense of balance. So if they are able to figure out how that works and simulate it, could work as well.
But yeah the nose thing is interesting, pretty smart. just put some super heavy motion blur on it so you basically can't see it.
But yeah the nose thing is interesting, pretty smart. just put some super heavy motion blur on it so you basically can't see it.
Americanmushroom
Banned
Lol, genius
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