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In the Wizard Society of Harry Potter, non-consent must be uncomfortably common

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Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Hold up, before you say Trojita what the fuck! why are you trying to destroy my favorite book series, hear me out.

"Love Potions" exist in the Wizard world in Harry Potter. There isn't just one but several. The twin Weasley's in particular made a business selling them at their store.

To name a few

Cupid Crystals
Kissing Concoction
Beguiling Bubbles
Twilight Moonbeam

and last but not least Amortentia

The first four are supposed to cause the drinker to become infatuated with the giver of the potion. The last, Amortentia, is the most powerful Love Potion in existence. It causes a powerful infatuation or obsession from the drinker. Adding onto that the drink smells like the best thing ever.

With the potion out of the way, let's talk about the spells. Specifically I'm going to bring up the Imperius Curse. It is one of the most powerful and sinister spells known to wizardkind. When cast successfully, the curse places the victim completely under the caster's control.

Unlike the other unforgivable curses, being subjected to the Imperius Curse, when adequately cast, is not an unpleasant experience, in fact, quite the opposite; the victim of an Imperius Curse is placed in a calm, trance-like state in which all feeling of responsibility and anxiety is banished.

There are two plot points in particular that back up the statement made in the subject title. Only one of these appeared in the movies, I believe, so movie watchers only might be confused.

1. The first deals with a girl, Romilda Vane of Gryffindor, that tried to give Harry a Love Potion so that he would fall in love with her.

During Christmas one year, when Harry was invited to Professor Slughorn's lavish Christmas party, Romilda plotted with her friends in the girls' bathroom to somehow give Harry a love potion from Weasleys' Wizard Wheezes, which would make him ask one of them to be his guest to the party. Hermione Granger overheard this, and warned Harry. When he returned to the common room, Romilda initially tried to give Harry gillywater, but he refused. Instead, she forced a package of Chocolate Cauldrons, both of which were spiked with love potion, into his hands. She also made hints about wanting to go to the party with him, which Harry ignored.

Harry proceeded to stow the love potion-spiked Chocolate Cauldrons away in his trunk until March, when, while he was looking for the Marauder's Map, he tossed them on the floor. Ron Weasley, believing they were one of his birthday presents that had fallen off his bed, picked them up and ate them. Ron suddenly became obsessively infatuated with Romilda, to the point that he declared his love for her in front of Harry, then punched him when the former asked if it was a joke, and attempted to wrestle his way into Slughorn's office, believing she was in there. This led to Horace Slughorn giving Ron an antidote. Believing it was a "tonic for the nerves," Ron drank it and the potion's effects ceased. Soon afterward, he was poisoned by a bottle of oak matured mead that was meant for Albus Dumbledore.

2. Is a pretty big plot point in the past

Harry Potter Book's 6&7 spoilers

A young witch named Merope Gaunt uses a love potion or curse to force the richest attractive muggle bachelor in the town,
Tom Riddle
, to fall in love with her. They were married, had sex, she got pregnant, and they had a son. All this time he was under her spell. At some point in time while she was pregnant, Merope decided to remove the spell, thinking that after all this time he would have to love her for real now. This was not the case. Instead of being happy or in love with her,
Tom Riddle
was revolted by the whole situation. He left her pregnant and destitute. She died shortly later, leaving her son that was born to go to an orphanage. This son was
Tom Marvolo Riddle
, or who you might better know as
Lord Voldemort
.

Yes, going along with Dumbledore's whole dumb speech about how Harry was everything good and loving and
Voldemort was not, the big bad of the series was also born from date rape.
 

Platy

Member
1) You forgot that "turn yourself into another person" potion.

2) Obligatory

ZmNjBlI.jpg
 
That entire universe doesn't make any sense if you actually look even slightly deeper. The whole wizard economy, living with muggles, time travel, etc.
 
I have always, always had a massive problem with love potions in fiction and how they're simply waived away like nothing, given that, essentially, they are date rape drugs.
 
That entire universe doesn't make any sense if you actually look even slightly deeper. The whole wizard economy, living with muggles, time travel, etc.

that goes for nearly every fictional universe ever

I have always, always had a massive problem with love potions in fiction and how they're simply waived away like nothing, given that, essentially, they are date rape drugs.

wasn't cupid pretty much a god of date rape? with date rape arrows? This sort of thing has historical precedent
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Wizarding society was stuck in the 1800s wasn't it?

Standard fare.
 

kewlmyc

Member
None of Harry Potter makes sense. It was a series made for children, so I wave most of the stupid and creepy shit off.
 

RPGamer92

Banned
I think the bigger problem to tackle is the horrible mis-management of Hogwarts. "You know what, let's put all the death eater kids together in one house known for dark arts rather than put them with the muggleborns so they can learn to treat everyone equally"
 

Brakke

Banned
Maybe but also slipping people potions without their knowledge is v illegal and there's lots of ways for wizards to test if shit's been doctored.

I mean the only actual case of someone exploiting someone else via the use of a love potion is Merope doping Riddle.

Your assertion isn't really borne out by the evidence.
 

marzlapin

Member
Love potions should be part of the Dark Arts/black magic/whatever you want to call it.

I don't think this is a shocking revelation though. The dark side of love potions is pretty clearly laid out in HP.
 

Frog-fu

Banned
1) You forgot that "turn yourself into another person" potion.

2) Obligatory

ZmNjBlI.jpg

Regarding the first response: we can't know for sure Neville would have turned out to be a hero like Harry had he been the Boy Who Lived. Simply because he was a possibility for the Chosen One doesn't mean he would have even if Voldemort deemed baby Neville his mortal enemy. More importantly, Harry was unique in the way he was raised differently from any other wizard. If Neville had been chosen, I doubt he would've been as humble or have the right attributes to fulfill the role of hero. I think the only way Neville could've become a hero is the way it unfolded in the books: in the shadow and through inspiration by Harry.

My issue with the response is that the user portrays Merope Gaunt as some helpless victim that did what she did because of societal pressures. She didn't, and she was not a victim. She was a capable enough witch to concoct a love potion and use it on a man who had no interest in her and in the act of raping him (who knows how many times) became pregnant with a child. I don't think societal pressures had much of anything to do with Merope carrying her child to term. I think the more obvious answer was that it was love for Riddle Snr and presumably love for her unborn child that influenced her decision, so I don't know if it's particularly clever to try and spin her having Voldemort as some pro choice argument.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Maybe but also slipping people potions without their knowledge is v illegal and there's lots of ways for wizards to test if shit's been doctored.

I mean the only actual case of someone exploiting someone else via the use of a love potion is Merope doping Riddle.

Your assertion isn't really borne out by the evidence.

Really? Because the whole Harry Potter series shows how horribly ineffective they are at monitoring spell use. Somehow they can perfectly monitor kids like Harry, but fuck it if they can any adult. Potions themselves are even worse, since they can't be tracked.

I have evidence that magic assisted date rape happened in the series.
 

Varna

Member
I think the bigger problem to tackle is the horrible mis-management of Hogwarts. "You know what, let's put all the death eater kids together in one house known for dark arts rather than put them with the muggleborns so they can learn to treat everyone equally"

This was so stupid.

15 years into the future they still have slytherin house... what the fuck? During the final battle they locked all those guys away. Why would they continue to honor someone who brings constant trouble to everyone ?
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
This was so stupid.

15 years into the future they still have slytherin house... what the fuck? During the final battle they locked all those guys away. Why would they continue to honor someone who brings constant trouble to everyone ?

Tradition. It's why the south still has the confederate flag.

#slytherinheritagenothate am I right?

lol
 
I bet there's a lot of wizards and witches out there who don't love their spouses, but use love potions every night so they can keep their marriage together for the sake of the kids.

Harry Potter is a depressing universe the more you get into it.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
I think we are all missing the big question...

Why the fuck does Harry wears glasses? If they can create a potion that can regrow humans' bone surely there is one that remove the need of wearing glasses.
 
Yeah, I mean, there's a whole lot of things that would be uncomfortably common. But it's a kids book, so I don't think J. K. Rowling felt the need to explain to her audience why brainwash rape couldn't happen, since kids don't usually get concerned about that. Any type of magic would probably just make everything a little bit more fucked up.
 

Platy

Member
Oh fuck, I can't believe I forgot that.

To be fair Polyjuice is mostly used in fanfiction/theories as a Red Light District drug than a rape drug.
From "new look at 'napkin used by tom cruise' ebay sales" to .... furries

But then again ... is it ilegal to have sex with someone transformed into someone agains't the target's consent ?

=|
 
To be fair Polyjuice is mostly used in fanfiction/theories as a Red Light District drug than a rape drug.
From "new look at 'napkin used by tom cruise' ebay sales" to .... furries

But then again ... is it ilegal to have sex with someone transformed into someone agains't the target's consent ?

=|

How much of Lilly's hair did Snape manage steal?
 

bengraven

Member
Didn't JK basically admit that Voldy was the product of rape?

I bet love potions are used recreationally like ecstasy too.

haha

"Man, we really loved each other last night? Like hard. I couldn't imagine my world without you."
"I know, I, like, would have died for you. Then the passionate love making was so good I am still shaking."
"Tonight?"
"Nah, let's just be friends..."
 

Brakke

Banned
Really? Because the whole Harry Potter series shows how horribly ineffective they are at monitoring spell use. Somehow they can perfectly monitor kids like Harry, but fuck it if they can any adult. Potions themselves are even worse, since they can't be tracked.

I have evidence that magic assisted date rape happened in the series.

I'm saying it happened exactly once that we know about, and there was one time it was attempted and trivially thwarted.

Wizarding forensics is kind of a complicated question. If you apprehend a suspect you can do some serious forensics. Voldemort figures out that Hermione broke Harry's wand and attempted to repair it. Dumbledore can like smell magic (and its caster) on the air. "Magic always leaves a trace."

I dunno if potions can or can't be tracked. But it's probably easy to know if you have been dosed once you sober up. It's pretty damn easy to retrace steps from there to know who dosed you. Also like. You will have spent one day madly infatuated with someone you suddenly aren't into. I'm sure you can test your pee for traces of gurdyroot or whatever goes into love potions.

I sort of suspect the threat of magical forensics and magical reprisal effectively check magical wrongdoing to a level commensurate with mundane wrongdoing.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
How much of Lilly's hair did Snape manage steal?

Now whether he didn't want to be bothered or not, Snape actually had a scene in the book where the students were going to ask him how to make a love potion and his face was saying "Fuck Off".

Oh shit, Ginny Weasley has had Harry under a love spell this whole time. How else would Harry fall in love with someone like that.

HarryxHermione4lyfe
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Given Wizards in Harry Potter are all terrible fucking people I don't think rape would be a big deal to them. They'll already look at Muggles who are injured and be like "Well, I could regrow that man's arm, but we just can't be bothered with it".
 

Hatchtag

Banned
Consent


I knew a mute when he was a kid and he was always making loud noises because he couldn't hear how loud he was being. I don't think sex with a mute girl would be anything near quiet.

they said mute, not deaf. unless that's how mute works.

man i'm really uneducated about mute people.
 

99hertz

Member
Nonverbal communication? Gestures, body language, facial expressions...you can express yourself without words.

Maybe don't have sex with mute people if you can't parse these things.
I don't know sign language and I can't just take out my penis. Do I just do thrusting motions with my pelvis? This is too complicated.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I don't know sign language and I can't just take out my penis. Do I just do thrusting motions with my pelvis? This is too complicated.

Written affidavit.
 

Brakke

Banned
I knew a mute when he was a kid and he was always making loud noises because he couldn't hear how loud he was being. I don't think sex with a mute girl would be anything near quiet.

Ok that person was deaf.

I don't know sign language and I can't just take out my penis. Do I just do thrusting motions with my pelvis? This is too complicated.

None of this has anything at all to do with wizards.
 
Of all the dastardly things Wizards can do, this is the one that you bring up? Seriously?

How about the fact that Wizards in the HP universe have the ability to solve most, if not all, of the major problems in the muggle world. Starvation, most diseases, wealth inequality could all be largely wiped out in a matter of years if Wizards came out in the open. The environment could be repaired post haste. Species nearing extinction could be reversed. And lets not get started on combing magic with muggle technology, imagine the leaps and bounds humanity could take with that combination!

But instead, wizards and witches hide from the world, keeping all their humanity saving abilities to themselves while the muggles keep on keeping on as their world slowly collapses. You think wizards have to worry about global warming? a sudden onset of the black plague? Mass extinction? Hell no, they have spells, potions, and items to combat all of that! They could hide in their tiny magical little kingdoms forever while muggles get wiped out.

Seriously, fuck the wizards in that universe. All of them are elitist pricks who would rather horde their powers than share them with the world. Complain about house Slytherin still existing? Pfft, all wizards are House Slytherin. Some just hide it better than others.
 

MrHoot

Member
I think, if i'm not mistaken, that it's implied that in the world of harry potter, while there are a lot of powerful spells and potions of that sort, they're also more often than not traceable (if the ministry of magic is capable of detecting almost instantly when an underage student uses magic outside of school, i'm sure there are ways for them to detect when someone uses a forbidden curse or detect traces of a potion if needed to).

Although Harry Potter has always had this connotation of being this weirdly dangerous world outside our own. I mean all the kids are basically carrying the equivalent of loaded guns the moment they get a wand after all, and the administration of the school itself can be borderline psychotic. It's always kinda been a running gag when thinking about harry potter more "realistically" because yes, it would be a legal nightmare most of the time
 
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