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FCC chairman wants your xbone to actually replace your cable box

T

TheBryanJZX90

Member
http://recode.net/2016/01/27/its-time-to-unlock-the-set-top-box-market/

Well, not just the Xbox One. FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler released a statement linked above, announcing an intent to open up the cable set top box market.

Today, 99 percent of pay-TV customers lease set-top boxes from their cable, satellite or telco providers. Pay-TV subscribers spend an average of $231 a year to rent these boxes, because there are few meaningful alternatives.

If you’ve ever signed up for a $99-a-month bundle for cable, phone and Internet and then wondered why your bill is significantly higher, this is a big reason. Even when the company has recovered the cost of the box, you must continue to pay for it. Altogether, U.S. consumers spend a whopping $20 billion a year to lease these devices. In fact, according to a recent analysis, over the past 20 years the cost of cable set-top boxes has risen 185 percent while the cost of computers, televisions and mobile phones has dropped by 90 percent.

It doesn’t have to be this way.
Click to expand...

This is exciting to me. When the Xbox One was first announced to work with cable TV I was hoping this would be the result, but the passthrough feature ended up being only a frustrating half-measure. Cable is still the largest pipeline for professional video content on your TV, and it has been sequestered off from all other content for too long. I'd love to be able to cut down on the number of boxes underneath my TV, stop having to switch inputs all the time, AND have a better cable viewing experience. This would let Apple, Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo all make a play at releasing a useful HTPC, essentially. I'd love to see what they can come up with.
 
C

Chindogg

Member
No reason why it shouldn't. ATT UVerse had a special disc to make the Xbox 360 into a cable box, but they quickly bailed on it.

Zero reason why X1 can't be a cable box.
 
M

Mesoian

Member
I'd love that. Between all of the TV's in our house, we're paying 40 bucks a month extra. It's horseshit, and the alternative is basically buying a console priced device that only serves to be a glorified DVR. It sucks.
 
B

BiggNife

Member
Honestly, that's probably a good thing. Verizon cable boxes are fucking garbage and give me and my family headaches on an almost daily basis.

The current system of cable providers forcing users to lease incredibly poor STBs for ridiculous prices is awful and needs to go.
 
BibiMaghoo

BibiMaghoo

Member
according to a recent analysis, over the past 20 years the cost of cable set-top boxes has risen 185 percent while the cost of computers, televisions and mobile phones has dropped by 90 percent.
Click to expand...

Wow at this figure. They are practically stealing.
 
B

Breads

Banned
I say that's a pretty rad solution. Side note: anyone who doesn't buy their own modem, or if applicable, cable box, deserves to lose twice the cost of each a year.

entremet said:
Sure. Apple TV and Roku too.

Any set top box.
Click to expand...

Are rokus robust enough to do that? That would be interesting.
 
C

cakely

Member
More and more households are "cutting the cable" and consuming all their programming through an internet connection.

Aside from live sports programming, I don't see the appeal of watching an episode of a show at a scheduled time.

It seems unlikely that a gen 9 console would be designed to replace a device with a dwindling market.
 
H

Hamster Plugin

Member
Are you forced to rent cable boxes from cable providers in the US?

In Finland we have a standard way of delivering cable TV which means there is cable box competition in the market, and all boxes should support all providers (cable provider branded ones may be an exception). Some of them have a recording feature, some allow HD, etc.
 
A

AstroNut325

Member
Wheeler doing God's
(Emperor Obama's)
work.

I fully support this. F*** the low quality set top boxes spewed by the Telecos and Cable companies.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Breads said:
I say that's a pretty rad solution. Side note: anyone who doesn't buy their own modem, or if applicable, cable box, deserves to lose twice the cost of each a year.
Click to expand...

Some cable companies don't allow you to buy your own anymore. Routers that is.

It's shitty.
 
H

Hockeymac18

Member
Hamster Plugin said:
Are you forced to rent cable boxes from cable providers in the US?

In Finland we have a standard way of delivering cable TV which means there is cable box competition in the market, and all boxes should support all providers (cable provider branded ones may be an exception). Some of them have a recording feature, some allow HD, etc.
Click to expand...
Pretty much, yes. It's theoretically possible to have your own box, but the cable companies generally make it very difficult to do this. They know they can milk us for a monthly fee to rent their boxes, and the majority of people don't even know of any other way.

The same thing happens with their cable modems. You can buy your own modem, but there's no guarantee it'll work (I tried this with Comcast, with two different modems - both failed to play nicely with their network).

Welcome to the cable industry in the U.S. (aka, legalized monopolies).
 
C

CrispyBoar

Banned
cakely said:
More and more households are "cutting the cable" and consuming all their programming through an internet connection.

Aside from live sports programming, I don't see the appeal of watching an episode of a show at a scheduled time.

It seems unlikely that a gen 9 console would be designed to replace a device with a dwindling market.
Click to expand...

I agree. More & more people are switching over to streaming daily.

Why pay a ton of money for cable when you can basically just use something like Netflix & Hulu Plus for about $16 a month ($7.99 apiece), & put the other money towards food & other bills?
 
M

Mesoian

Member
Hamster Plugin said:
Are you forced to rent cable boxes from cable providers in the US?

In Finland we have a standard way of delivering cable TV which means there is cable box competition in the market, and all boxes should support all providers (cable provider branded ones may be an exception). Some of them have a recording feature, some allow HD, etc.
Click to expand...

You can buy altenrative cable boxes, but they are all very expensive, and some of them still have monthly fees.

Samus4145 said:
how does an article like this exist without even mentioning PlayStation Vue?
Click to expand...

Because those are two completely different things. PSV is a streaming service. What this article is about is non-fee based DVR's that work with existing cable options.
 
B

Breads

Banned
entremet said:
Some cable companies don't allow you to buy your own anymore. Routers that is.

It's shitty.
Click to expand...
Are you for real? I have never experienced that personally but that sounds really messed up.

Hamster Plugin said:
Are you forced to rent cable boxes from cable providers in the US?
Click to expand...

Apparently you are sometimes? I never went through that. They do softball it in though. They always automatically assume you're okay with leasing one until you explicitly tell them otherwise.

Hockeymac18 said:
Pretty much, yes. It's theoretically possible to have your own box, but the cable companies generally make it very difficult to do this. They know they can milk us for a monthly fee to rent their boxes, and the majority of people don't even know of any other way.

The same thing happens with their cable modems. You can buy your own modem, but there's no guarantee it'll work (I tried this with Comcast, with two different modems - both failed to play nicely with their network).

Welcome to the cable industry in the U.S. (aka, legalized monopolies).
Click to expand...

I do this with comcast both at home and at my apartment. There is a limited comparability list and honestly their stuff is kind of shitty, I still have to use a dedicated router since their modem/ router combos are complete garbage, but I do indeed do this.
 
H

Hamster Plugin

Member
Hockeymac18 said:
Pretty much, yes. It's theoretically possible to have your own box, but the cable companies generally make it very difficult to do this. They know they can milk us for a monthly fee to rent their boxes, and the majority of people don't even know of any other way.

The same thing happens with their cable modems. You can buy your own modem, but there's no guarantee it'll work (I tried this with Comcast, with two different modems - both failed to play nicely with their network).

Welcome to the cable industry in the U.S. (aka, legalized monopolies).
Click to expand...
Mesoian said:
You can buy altenrative cable boxes, but they are all very expensive, and some of them still have monthly fees.
Click to expand...

That explains things. The first thing I was wondering when I saw the Xbox One TV reveal was that they will have a hard time supporting all the hundred different devices that people are using to receive TV here. Of course when it was revealed to be US only for the most part, I wasn't surprised.
 
V

VariantX

Member
This would be great. I'd think we'd all be better off if our consoles, $99 dollar streaming boxes, and our smart tv's could do this on their own. It makes no sense from the consumer 's perspective to have to pay the telecoms this money for unnecessary hardware when we already have hardware capable of it in our homes today with just our internet connections.
 
Teletraan1

Teletraan1

Banned
If anything they should just make a Kodi app that allows you to put in your subscriber information and get whatever service they are offering via the internet. I have no caps so I don't care how I get the content. That would run on just about anything and get rid of those clunky boxes.
 
M

Mesoian

Member
Teletraan1 said:
If anything they should just make a Kodi app that allows you to put in your subscriber information and get whatever service they are offering via the internet. I have no caps so I don't care how I get the content. That would run on just about anything and get rid of those clunky boxes.
Click to expand...

The actual telcoms SORT OF do this now with their apps on the respective systems. Still though, if you have cable, you probably wanna use it like traditional cable, else why pay for it and avoid going to something like Hulu?
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
Blanquito said:
Technical details, musings, predictions on this exact topic. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=742588

(Jeff Rigby)
Click to expand...
Probably more to the point: DVRs and cable TV support by Game consoles and PCs with two PDFs sent to the FCC by Sony with PS3 and PS4 as examples. All proposals use HTML5<video> MSE EME and a TEE

It's about eliminating the cable card and downloadable security, the FCC will vote on a proposal Feb 18 2016 that Cable companies must support.
 
D

Deleted member 284

Unconfirmed Member
If this goes through, the cable companies are about to lose the convenience of access to overpriced on demand content. Trust me when I say a war is brewing to stop this.
 
Pokemaniac

Pokemaniac

Member
While people should definitely own their own cable boxes, I really don't think consoles should become them. Sounds like some really misplaced priorities.
 
A

AyaisMUsikWhore

Member
I read about this earlier today and love the fact that the FCC is going after this. Hells fucking yeah I'm down. I hate that Comcast completely fucks people over with their bullshit fees so I'm 100% in favor.
 
G

Gator86

Member
BibiMaghoo said:
Wow at this figure. They are practically stealing.
Click to expand...

That is the goal of every company - exploit the consumer and steal everything you can until you the government steps it to stop you. For all the shit Tom Wheeler got when he was put in charge, he's been stellar though.
 
G

Gestault

Member
This is such a myopic title. The reaction by the FCC is a good thing, and it's literally the opposite of a desire to push any one brand. Yes, the write-up has a slightly different tone, but it also acts like a small investment by any company wouldn't already itself be the solution to what the FCC is highlighting. An investment also required my Microsoft to achieve the same. The preponderance of modern technology being capable of delivering TV content in the public's interest is the subject matter here.

Pokemaniac said:
While people should definitely own their own cable boxes, I really don't think consoles should become them. Sounds like some really misplaced priorities.
Click to expand...

This is the opposite of understanding the point of the FCC statement.
 
Pokemaniac

Pokemaniac

Member
TheBryanJZX90 said:
Consoles already have hardware capable of doing it and already have plenty of similar content, so why not?
Click to expand...

Streaming apps are one thing, but actually adding the hardware to become cable boxes is a bit much. Of course, I already think the PS4 and Xbone have too much focus on media playback, so, I may be a bit biased.
 
M

morpix

Member
TV services over IP is the solution to this problem. I know SKY in the UK uses it. A few others are following suit, but then again, SKY makes money out of their set-top boxes and will never let another box replace it.
Smart-cards for satellite services can't be used in XBones. So another decoding/authentication method will need to be used. Content providers get super nervous if you can't prove security of their content.
Not to mention deals they have with decoder/set-top companies.

All these things add up and make the cable/satellite companies put it in the "Too Hard" bucket.
 
element

element

Member
Hamster Plugin said:
Are you forced to rent cable boxes from cable providers in the US?
Click to expand...
Depends who your cable provider is. Comcast recently abandoned QAM support, so in order to even watch TV you have to use a box provided by Comcast, which typically you lease/rent which varies from $3 to $10 a month depending on the features (SD, HD, DVR).

The lack of development of IPTV is really the problem here. Cable television uses proprietary encoding, which typically needed dedicated hardware. That is why recording multiple channels on a single source was such a big deal. If that was just data, then you are somewhat limitless on what you can do. I remember an awesome IPTV demo years ago where they ran 8 channels all at the same time because they were technically just 'streams' and didn't need additional special hardware decoding.
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
element said:
Depends who your cable provider is. Comcast recently abandoned QAM support, so in order to even watch TV you have to use a box provided by Comcast, which typically you lease/rent which varies from $3 to $10 a month depending on the features (SD, HD, DVR).

The lack of development of IPTV is really the problem here. Cable television uses proprietary encoding, which typically needed dedicated hardware. That is why recording multiple channels on a single source was such a big deal. If that was just data, then you are somewhat limitless on what you can do. I remember an awesome IPTV demo years ago where they ran 8 channels all at the same time because they were technically just 'streams' and didn't need additional special hardware decoding.
Click to expand...
All the cable companies are moving from TV tuners (QAM) to all IPTV delivery. All IPTV delivery uses a cable modem so Discovery is needed and a Downloadable security scheme. Beyond that IPTV delivery is from cloud servers and different delivery mechanisms are used. This creates issues for a OPEN delivery mechanism and Cable is saying that they need to write the app and be in control of delivery. This is the current battle; Cable TV APP vs. a Sony or Microsoft or Samsung etc. APP with both using HTML5 <video> MSE EME and a TEE. Feb 18 the FCC will vote on which we will get.

Discovery will be either with DLNA's UPnP or Bonjour which the PS4 supports.

Pokemaniac said:
Streaming apps are one thing, but actually adding the hardware to become cable boxes is a bit much. Of course, I already think the PS4 and Xbone have too much focus on media playback, so, I may be a bit biased.
Click to expand...
The Codecs and Trustzone processor AMD, Sony and Microsoft are using will support Multi-stream and a DSS. The Software stack, as you know from previous discussions, is provided by something like the Gnome Mobile initiative for Cell Phones and is just a Browser with W3C extensions. The multi-stream codecs essentially prove the hardware was designed for digital TV both Antenna and Cable. In the short term for Cable TV and Antenna TV, there is a need for a Network Tuner or USB tuner unless you are using the all IPTV Comcast Stream or Playstaion Vue lineup

Cable TV currently and for the foreseeable future ?2020? has both a Low Definition lineup using QAM TV channels and a Hi Def using a combination of QAM and IPTV. Antenna TV will always be primarily RF channels with Internet access. Both Antenna TV and Cable TV multi-stream multiple TV programs in the same 6 Mhz channel.

This Sony PDF is about using a clear QAM cable TV tuner with a PS4 as the client with the DSS (Downloadable Security Scheme). Antenna TV's ATSC 2 & 3 can have sub channels that are DRM encrypted and ATSC 3 is also delivered as IPTV using the HTML5 <video> MSE EME with exactly the same format that UHD Ultraviolet and UHD Blu-ray digital bridge will use. The CE industry is preparing to support older TVs when we move to ATSC 3 and 4K IPTV on Cable TV.
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
Sony to Spend $212 Million on Altair Semiconductor Purchase

Altair was founded back in 2005 by ex-Texas Instruments execs and specializes in chips for wireless, such as 4G LTE chipsets. Despite being based in Israel, the firm was instrumental in the creation of the Japanese XGP standards for 4G networks and even WiMax solutions. Sony expects to close the deal before the end of February, and right now it&#8217;s unclear what Sony hopes to do with the firm.

Israel-based Altair makes chips that connect devices to LTE and its technology will help develop Sony&#8217;s Internet of Things business.

In addition to smartphones, LTE is also used to connect objects in the Internet of Things, including fitness trackers, home appliances, and sensors . Right now, most smart things use bluetooth, and sometimes Wi-Fi, to get online because neither standard requires a lot of power. LTE, however, is emerging as an alternative because it is also low-power but can be used to connect many devices at once, making it a good option for enterprise use cases. Devices can also use existing LTE infrastructure, including networks owned by carriers, making it cost-effective to deploy.
Click to expand...

One of the biggest commercial features of ATSC 3 is mobile TV where it can provide a stable picture even in a moving vehicle. ATSC 3 uses the same modulation scheme modern cell phones use so likely Sony is purchasing a company that makes the chipset that can be used in UHD ATSC 3 TVs and will be needed for Network tuners for those 4K and 1080P TVs that do not yet have a tuner for ATSC 3.
 
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