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Neo upgrade musings in response to Scorpio.

Proelite

Proelite

Member
Stronger CPU was already considered when Osiris Black leaked the original Neo news on Gaf. Said the upgrade will raise price to $499 potentially.

The bandwith on the GDDR5 ram is 216? GB/s. Its limiting what the GPU can be since you generally want a 2:1 ratio between teraflops and 100 gb/s. They can switch out the GDDR5 for GDDR5x since the memory controller is the same. The peak bandwidth can then be 320gb/s.

The clock on the GPU is probably conservative if its a Polaris part. This is likely the result of going with GDDR5. Clock the GPU higher by 33% to 1.2 ghz, and you'll have 5.6 teraflop part, which goes toe to toe with rumoured Scorpio targets.

In summary.

Better than Jaguar CPU at 2.4 ghz.
1.2 ghz GPU 5.6 teraflops.
8gb of GDDR5x, 280 gb/s.
$499 at launch small loss.

This is all assuming that neo is a more than just a fab shrink to 14nm LPE instead of a 14nm LPP port. If it is LPE then current specs are the max

Edit:

Seems like GDDR5x is not necessary. Peak bandwidth on the 480 is 256 gb/s with GDDR5.
 
E

Enter the Dragon Punch

Banned
I... Really, really don't think it's feasible or realistic in the slightest that Sony changed their entire plans and threw away all the money they used for R&D for the Neo just because of rumours about the new Xbox.
 
K

KinofChaos

Banned
Sony doesn't need to react to Scorpio...WW they will be the leader regardless. Being earlier and cheaper will be a big deal fro sony.
 
T

The Argus

Member
Seriously doubt Sony is back to the drawing boards because of some unconfirmed rumors. You can't just completely change the specs of a console 6 months before release.


Daft Punk said:
Why do people assume that Sony needs to be reactionary in this way to be competitive? Do people forget the PS2?
Click to expand...

Those people don't want to be on the other side of the Digital Foundry Head to Head topics. Not like it will change much around NeoGaf. They'll find a way to downplay the horsepower.
 
T

Transistor

Banned
bidguy said:
didnt they already send out devkits ?
Click to expand...

Well, they technically did that for the PS4 before announcing that it was 8GB instead of 4GB GDDR5, but I doubt they'd do it again

And OP is crazy if he thinks Sony's gonna put out another $599 console, unless it's a bundle with PS VR
 
B

Boke1879

Member
Enter the Dragon Punch said:
I... Really, really don't think it's feasible or realistic in the slightest that Sony changed their entire plans and threw away all the money they used for R&D for the Neo just because of rumours about the new Xbox.
Click to expand...

Not to mention Sony probably already knew about a new Xbox anyway way before Kotaku and Polygon.
 
O

On Demand

Banned
Sony is not going change whatever plans they have for neo based of rumors. We don't even know the final specs of neo itself.


Kindly remember

"MS is going batshit insane"

And PS4 only having 4GB of RAM.
 
G

get2sammyb

Member
Sony has not been reactionary at all this gen, I'm not sure why they'd suddenly start now. They've forged their own path with the PS4 and things like PlayStation VR, and they've been doing a pretty good job across the board.

I'm not entirely sure why people think that top-level execs at any of the major gaming manufacturers/publishers read rumours on NeoGAF and adjust their plans accordingly. It just doesn't work like that.

Whatever Neo or Scorpio (and NX, for that matter) turns out to be, it's because the relative suits at the companies making them think that they're the right fit for the market at the time. They may well be right/wrong, but they're not exactly going to let industry hearsay and NeoGAF posters change their direction.
 
M

Mokujin

Member
Your people thinking that Sony needs to upgrade the leaked spects, changing gpu, memory etc and raise price to 500 or 600 $ are insane.

And as a side note, good luck to either Sony or MS pulling a 500 or 600 sku out there.
 
O

Orayn

Member
Mokujin said:
Your people thinking that Sony needs to upgrade the leaked spects, changing gpu, memory etc and raise price to 500 or 600 $ are insane.

And as a side note, good luck to either Sony or MS pulling a 500 or 600 sku out there.
Click to expand...

500 isn't completely out of the question, IMO, but nobody's going to pull a FIVE HUNDRED NINTETY NINE US DOLLARS ever again.
 
D

DayEnder

Member
Proelite said:
Stronger CPU was already considered when Osiris black leaked the original Neo news on Gaf. Said the upgrade will raise price to $499 potentially.

The bandwith on the GDDR5 ram is 216? GB/s. Its limiting what the GPU can be since you generally want a 2:1 ratio between teraflops and 100 gb/s. They can switch out the GDDR5 for GDDR5x since the memory controller is the same. The peak bandwidth can then be 320gb/s.

The clock on the GPU is probably conservative if its a Polaris part. This is likely the result of going with GDDR5. Clock the GPU higher by 33% to 1.2 ghz, and you'll have 5.6 teraflop part, which goes toe to toe with rumoured Scorpio targets.

In summary.

Better than Jaguar CPU at 2.4 ghz.
1.2 ghz GPU 5.6 teraflops.
8gb of GDDR5x, 280 gb/s.
$599 at launch if breakeven.

This is all assuming that neo is a more than just a fab shrink to 14nm LPE instead of a 14nm LPP port. If it is LPE then current specs are the max
Click to expand...

Is this all speculation? Where did the details come from?
 
L

Loris146

Member
Proelite said:
Stronger CPU was already considered when Osiris black leaked the original Neo news on Gaf. Said the upgrade will raise price to $499 potentially.

The bandwith on the GDDR5 ram is 216? GB/s. Its limiting what the GPU can be since you generally want a 2:1 ratio between teraflops and 100 gb/s. They can switch out the GDDR5 for GDDR5x since the memory controller is the same. The peak bandwidth can then be 320gb/s.

The clock on the GPU is probably conservative if its a Polaris part. This is likely the result of going with GDDR5. Clock the GPU higher by 33% to 1.2 ghz, and you'll have 5.6 teraflop part, which goes toe to toe with rumoured Scorpio targets.

In summary.

Better than Jaguar CPU at 2.4 ghz.
1.2 ghz GPU 5.6 teraflops.
8gb of GDDR5x, 280 gb/s.
$599 at launch if breakeven.

This is all assuming that neo is a more than just a fab shrink to 14nm LPE instead of a 14nm LPP port. If it is LPE then current specs are the max
Click to expand...

What?
 
Proelite

Proelite

Member
On Demand said:
Sony is not going change whatever plans they have for neo based of rumors. We don't even know the final specs of neo itself.


Kindly remember

"MS is going batshit insane"

And PS4 only having 4GB of RAM.
Click to expand...

PS4 ram was doubled as a direct reaction to XB1.
 
D

Deleted member 465307

Unconfirmed Member
I don't think Sony is going to launch a $600 console anytime soon. Then again, I'm also curious what Microsoft would price their rumored Scorpio update at in 2017.

If the change is "simple," then I could see it happening. However, is any change 'simple" less than 12 months (perhaps more like 6-8) before launch?

I think, for Sony, $499 is the absolute highest price they'd enter at. I also don't see a problem with Sony putting a $400 4+ teraflop piece of hardware on the market in 2016 if Microsoft is going to introduce a $500 6 teraflop device in 2017. By that time, Neo could be $350, and I believe $350 is going for a different market than $500.*

*Prices are complete speculation based on the Neo rumored price and Microsoft's rumored specs
 
S

SeanTSC

Member
This sounds implausible and unlikely with how soon the Neo may be out.

I also do not see anyone launching a console over $399 again.
 
K

King_Moc

Banned
Too quick to be realistic. They may raise the specs, but there's too many things to consider to have done it already.
 
KyanMehwulfe

KyanMehwulfe

Member
if MS is going to release annual iterative upgrades, then why bother? even if they matched Scorpio, one year later the next version is still going to be faster. I don't really understand the focus on just the 1 upgrade (Scorpio) when the broader point of the leak was that they want to release new versions regularly a la a smartphone.

if they were going to do anything, it would probably make more sense to stand firm with the neo and also release an iterative upgrade 'neo 2' in 18 or 19.
 
S

SteamyPunk

Member
Since we've heard that there can't be any Neo-only games, is there much of a point in being so much more powerful than the PS4?

Will there be Scorpio-only games?
 
M

michaelius

Banned
Proelite said:
The bandwith on the GDDR5 ram is 216? GB/s. Its limiting what the GPU can be since you generally want a 2:1 ratio between teraflops and 100 gb/s. They can switch out the GDDR5 for GDDR5x since the memory controller is the same. The peak bandwidth can then be 320gb/s.
Click to expand...

What's the source of this nonsense?

Gtx 1080 has around 9TF and 320GB/s bandwidth.
 
Wishmaster92

Wishmaster92

Member
DayEnder said:
4GB was chosen originally because 8GB DDR5 wasn't possible/available at the time.
Click to expand...
On Demand said:
No. Sony got lucky with 8GB GDDR5.
Click to expand...
It was because of Randy Pitchford.

Recounting the story of how they went from 4GB to 8GB, Adam was actually at Gearbox (Borderlands), with Randy Pitchford, President of Gearbox, telling him, “If you go with 4GB of GDDR5, you are done.” Following that statement, Boyes says that the entire room of about 30 people added in that “you guys, you never listen, you’ve never been good at this stuff.”

After hearing this, Adam says he had a mini-breakdown, and it wasn’t until he reflected on this and asked himself the question, “Are we going to be the best console in every single category?” before things started moving, because “the answer used to be no.”

So, Adam went back to the developers about the possibility of doing 8GB of RAM, getting responses like “that would be incredible.” He then took all the feedback to Tokyo, got the thumbs up, and the rest is history.
Click to expand...
 
P

Pestilence11

Member
Proelite said:
Stronger CPU was already considered when Osiris black leaked the original Neo news on Gaf. Said the upgrade will raise price to $499 potentially.

The bandwith on the GDDR5 ram is 216? GB/s. Its limiting what the GPU can be since you generally want a 2:1 ratio between teraflops and 100 gb/s. They can switch out the GDDR5 for GDDR5x since the memory controller is the same. The peak bandwidth can then be 320gb/s.

The clock on the GPU is probably conservative if its a Polaris part. This is likely the result of going with GDDR5. Clock the GPU higher by 33% to 1.2 ghz, and you'll have 5.6 teraflop part, which goes toe to toe with rumoured Scorpio targets.

In summary.

Better than Jaguar CPU at 2.4 ghz.
1.2 ghz GPU 5.6 teraflops.
8gb of GDDR5x, 280 gb/s.
$599 at launch if breakeven.

This is all assuming that neo is a more than just a fab shrink to 14nm LPE instead of a 14nm LPP port. If it is LPE then current specs are the max
Click to expand...

In what world would that be break even price?
 
C

chronic_archaic

Member
The Argus said:
Seriously doubt Sony is back to the drawing boards because of some unconfirmed rumors. You can't just completely change the specs of a console 6 months before release.




Those people don't want to be on the other side of the Digital Foundry Head to Head topics. Not like it will change much around Neogaf. They'll find a way to downplay the horsepower.
Click to expand...
pretty much
 
M

Mivey

Member
You are totally forgetting Sony's greatest secret yet, the thing that MS totally used up right from the get-go and blew all their fire: THE CLOUD. Sure, since Sony is shit at security, it will be DDOS'ed 90% of the time, but it could easily make the NEO beat the Scorpio (assuming you have good Internet)
 
S

SMattera

Member
bidguy said:
what utter nonsense

no one is releasing a console of all things a year after the other
Click to expand...

If they're switching to an iterative model with backwards and forwards compatibility, refreshing the box every 2 years or so is not outlandish (assuming the Neo ships this fall).
 
Caayn

Caayn

Member
bidguy said:
what utter nonsense

no one is releasing a console of all things a year after the other
Click to expand...
That's what people said back in 2013 about no new console from Sony and MS before 2018/9. Now look where we are.

If the NEO is a succes. You can bet that the iterative console will become more frequent in release.
 
A

Admiral Woofington

Member
Sony has no reason to get a better performance, both consoles are assumed to only run current gen games better, so they'll always be limited by that. Doesn't matter if the bone zone scorpio doot doot runs better at the end.
 
D

Deleted member 465307

Unconfirmed Member
SMattera said:
If they're switching to an iterative model with backwards and forwards compatibility, refreshing the box every 2 years or so is not outlandish (assuming the Neo ships this fall).
Click to expand...

I agree that every 2 years is not outlandish. However, I hope it's every 3, with (to borrow Apple's naming) "s" refreshes alternating with full numbered updates.

OP, it feels more likely that Sony would just respond in 2018 or 2019 with the PS5.
 
M

mosdl

Member
The originals sold the most, so I highly doubt that games (other than first party) will play differently between og and neo. You can add 100 billion tflops but the limiting factor is still the original console.
 
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