Link to the video!
Really wondering why Blizzard didn't go the F2P route right away, if they're going all-out on the loot route.
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Jimquisition: Loot n' Plunder (August 8th)
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
Link to the video!
Really wondering why Blizzard didn't go the F2P route right away, if they're going all-out on the loot route.
Zombie James
Banned
Jim, if you're reading this I have a genuine question for you that's tangentially related to this video.
You're against Microtransactions of any kind in $60 games, because they change the way a game is played, even if you don't end up purchasing any of them or they're cosmetic. On the other hand, you sometimes champion the idea of an easy mode in Dark Souls because it wouldn't change the game because you "don't have to use it." Why does having optional Microtransactions change the game wheras optional difficulty settings does not?
Edit: Jeez, I didn't expect so many responses. I should clarify I actually agree with Jim on MicroTransactions and always have, it just seems like a contradictory viewpoint to his "easy mode" one to me.
I doubt he'll laugh about it? It's not a completely ridiculous question so even if he doesn't answer, I doubt he'll be so rude as to laugh about it. This wasn't an attempt to insult or deride his viewpoint, I just want to understand his view better because it seems somewhat contradictory to me. Jim claims that the nature of MicroTransactions changes the game even if you don't use them and I agree on that front, but I also think that an easy mode changes a game even if you don't use it.
Firstly: Games are inherently not accessible to many. Either through money or people simply not having the ability to play them for whatever reason.
Secondly: Jim isn't against companies taking money since he's okay with MT's in F2P games. I was under the impression he was against the game's design encouraging the player to put in more money once they already have, as it changes the nature of the game.
You're against Microtransactions of any kind in $60 games, because they change the way a game is played, even if you don't end up purchasing any of them or they're cosmetic. On the other hand, you sometimes champion the idea of an easy mode in Dark Souls because it wouldn't change the game because you "don't have to use it." Why does having optional Microtransactions change the game wheras optional difficulty settings does not?
Edit: Jeez, I didn't expect so many responses. I should clarify I actually agree with Jim on MicroTransactions and always have, it just seems like a contradictory viewpoint to his "easy mode" one to me.
I doubt he'll laugh about it? It's not a completely ridiculous question so even if he doesn't answer, I doubt he'll be so rude as to laugh about it. This wasn't an attempt to insult or deride his viewpoint, I just want to understand his view better because it seems somewhat contradictory to me. Jim claims that the nature of MicroTransactions changes the game even if you don't use them and I agree on that front, but I also think that an easy mode changes a game even if you don't use it.
Firstly: Games are inherently not accessible to many. Either through money or people simply not having the ability to play them for whatever reason.
Secondly: Jim isn't against companies taking money since he's okay with MT's in F2P games. I was under the impression he was against the game's design encouraging the player to put in more money once they already have, as it changes the nature of the game.
Jimmyfenix
Member
This is also my take on this topic
Because money is involved in one and not the other. These aren't even remotely related, and it's an incredibly silly question to try and link them together. Pretty sure Jim'll just screenshot this and laugh on Twitter. That's what I'd do.
MarioHead3
Banned
GankzyMcfly
Member
Because an easy mode in darksouls doesnt effect the experience of other players online where as consmetics do even if its insignificantly (just playing devils advocate).
I'd take a guess that the pertinent issue is that the microtransactions by their system are something that are pushed upon people by encouraging gambling type behaviour, scarcity of items, social status etc etc - all to drive giving money towards items, through increased gambling of crates. An easy mode isn't doing that. It is there in a menu and is a simple choice. There is no mechanic attached to persuade you to use it, and it is completely separate to the other modes of the game
backflip10019
Member
Yeah, this is my thought as well. The only real issue for me is that you can't buy individual items with credits.
I would have thought this was pretty obvious.
Microtransactions are a way to nickle and dime the player by manipulating them with addiction (whether that be due to good gameplay or whatever) and seperating the haves from the have nots making the have nots crave the things the haves have, so the pour more money into the game. I think Jim believes this is superfluous when the player has already invested a significant amount of money in the product.
An easy mode in dark souls however just allows someone that purchased the game to play through it if they don't have the skill to do so. The existence of an easy mode does not detract from the game for people who will play it on "normal" it merely makes the game more accessible for those that arent that good at those kind of games. Videogames historically have a massive issue with accessibility, what other entertainment / art medium has the elitism of "you must be this good" for admission to the experience.
The two points you have presented arent really comparable very different topics.
On topic: Im pissed i just cant get the summer stuff with my coins, I will literally have to buy boxes to get all the summer stuff, which is super shitty imo.
Son of Flounder
Member
It is not microtransactions in general if they are purely cosmetic, it is when the game mechanics have been tailored around a microtransaction system. A good example being Dead Space 3, although the microtransactions are optional, it is clear that the mechanics have been tweaked to support it, making the game require a lot more grinding and busy work if you don't want to pay up. This is part of the reason why I didn't bother completing the game and I loved the first two.
CraigerGamer
Member
I hope he doesn't. The question isn't as stupid as you think, and maybe you should be just a little more kind when using the internet.
Easy.. MT's will encourage developers to balance the game in a way that you are encouraged to pay them. Look at any F2P game and all the grind/time waiting involved. That's all there solely to make you impatient and want to pay to advance quicker. And if you think they won't put some of that in a pay game when they have MTs in you, go look at GTA V online. Where the economy is balanced to encourage you to want to pay for more in game money. MTs very much affect game design whether you are "forced" to pay for them or not. Cause they have heavy incentive (more money) to encourage you to pay more even if they don't force you.
An easy mode in a game can easily be done without affecting the hard mode and there is no incentive to have it affect the hard mode. Especially if they make the game with hard mode in mind and add the easy mode afterwards.
Honestly, it may not be a stupid question cause I could see people not realizing why MTs are bad, but it is a naive question as it shows he does not have an understanding why people dislike MTs in relation to how they affect game design.
All that being said I'm not so against truely cosmetic MTs that you can't pay in game money for or buy in game (basically paying is the only way to get them so there's no way to encourage you to skip working for them to get them) because they won't encourage them to change game balance so much.
the question equates two things that have no bearing on each other.
Jim explain this! You don't like chocolate. But you are ok with apple pie! checkmate atheists. etc
OnionPowder
Member
Easy mode would be something to make it more accessible to more people, if they wanted to use it or not.
Loot boxes are ways to suck money out of people.
Pretty simple.
Until Blizzard blocks gameplay features behind a paywall I havé 0 issues with people paying for the continued support of the game (free maps and heroes for as long as the game is supported by Blizzard which, knowing them, Will be 10 years if not more).
It's just cosmetic stuff that has no bearings on gameplay in any way, shape or form. Far from the likes of say, NFS Rivals
It's just cosmetic stuff that has no bearings on gameplay in any way, shape or form. Far from the likes of say, NFS Rivals
OnionPowder
Member
Yes, but the game costs $40-$60 and then they have a way to suck some more money out of people. That's why people dislike it.
JustSomeone
Member
Bullshit. The game isn't fee to play. How hard is it to understand this stuff is purely cosmetic.
CraigerGamer
Member
In some sense, perhaps but I think the "doesn't affect gameplay" could make for interesting discussion. Regardless, asking a question that may be obvious to some doesn't give another license to try and humiliate you.
The argument is less about the content of loot boxes more about their existence, how their existence inherently changes the structure of the game and the behavior they seek to exploit
You can't really begrudge people being unhappy their ingame character in a game they paid $$ for looks like a serf because they aren't ponying up extra cash for gambling boxes.
OnionPowder
Member
I think that is 100% understood.
Well, I understand and actually approve of that "make updates free for everyone" scheme, but... you can also do that with F2P. In fact, F2P would allow you to reach even more people, so more money in the end.
Can loot boxes be unlocked through regular gameplay?
MarioHead3
Banned
The default character designs are actually really good. Better than the rarer skins in some cases. People just want what they can't have, and that's kinda on them in my opinion.
JustSomeone
Member
Doesn't look like it, from all those complaints.
Yes
OnionPowder
Member
Yes, but they're designed in a way that good drops are rare. It's set up so a person would want to buy them as they drop pretty infrequently. Now with the new sets there are a bunch of timed cosmetics that are only available in loot boxes. Normally you can save up currency from duplicates and currency drops to buy any specific drop you want.
Or you don't understand the complaints.
Yes, but it takes increasing amounts of time to unlock lootboxes as you level up, maxing out at level 25 or so and then restarting at level 100.
MarioHead3
Banned
The amount of time it takes to get a loot box isn't any worse than how long it takes to level up in CoD (somewhere around 5-10 matches or so), and that has actual gameplay significance.
Leafhopper
Banned
Actually if anything it seems these Summer game lootboxes have higher chance of getting rare items than before because of their time limited nature and the fact the skins can't be bought with coins.
At least going by what me and my friends have seen anyway. I haven't bought any and I don't feel like I have to.
Also the amount of time it takes to get lootboxes isn't that bad if you just play the game.
At least going by what me and my friends have seen anyway. I haven't bought any and I don't feel like I have to.
Also the amount of time it takes to get lootboxes isn't that bad if you just play the game.
Visualante2
Member
Can you get duplicates of Rio items? If you get given coins on your Rio duplicate- that you can't even buy that's a massive slap in the face.
At best you can say Blizzard is trying to bolster the community with these limited edition events and hope that they bring these items out of the vault in the future. Which is a bit of a shit show.
Interesting reference to Moby in the video. Had no idea he gave away some royalty free music. Going to listen to his new record today now. Hope your back gets better soon Jim.
At best you can say Blizzard is trying to bolster the community with these limited edition events and hope that they bring these items out of the vault in the future. Which is a bit of a shit show.
Interesting reference to Moby in the video. Had no idea he gave away some royalty free music. Going to listen to his new record today now. Hope your back gets better soon Jim.
That's kind of annoying. It encourages players to level up to 99 or so then stop playing until a new event comes along so they can maximise the number of crates they can mine.
OnionPowder
Member
Gone through 12 and I've only gotten 1 skin. Seems about normal for loot boxes.
This argument isn't as persuasive as you might assume. You can unlock them with regular gameplay but they start to take increasing amounts of time.
Also allowing you a few for free is a well established house tactic when it comes to gambling
Henry Jones Jr
Member
Can you pay money to do it faster in CoD? I really don't know if there are Exp doubling things you can buy or what.
MarioHead3
Banned
No, and it gets even slower as you level up higher.
Yep. It's total crap.
yes, but in this instance the items won't be available after 22nd August and other items you can purchase through gold you get from boxes and duplicate items, but the summer items you can't, you getting the summer items is all based on RNG making it pretty much impossible for the average player to get all the summer items before the end of the season.
its shit.
It goes beyond this, though this is right. Jim is someone who cares about accessibility in video games. Something like encouraging devs to use color schemes friendly to colorblind people or wanting easier difficulty options makes the experience more accessible to people who haven't had access to it before. Free to play mechanics in a game you paid for does the exact opposite: it limits access to certain content to those who can afford it rather than making it more accessible.
Leafhopper
Banned
Maybe it's just been luck then.
OnionPowder
Member
I might just have shit luck, I've seen lots of people get way more skins.
Yes and yes, it's bullshit.
Jim Sterling
Member
Please forgive a brief reply. Not much time today.
Basically we're talking about the core default gameplay. Microtransactions have the core default experience tailored to them - across the board. Basically, microtransactions are NOT optional, despite what developers say. You don't opt-in to gameplay designed around an economy.
You DO opt-in to a difficulty mode, as the gameplay is only tailored toward the mode you choose, not the mode of someone else's choosing.
Hope that makes sense.
It's honestly taking way too long at this point. But no one cares if it's just videogames.
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