• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Playing Nioh for the first time. Advice for someone who has little exp with Souls?

Z

Zakalwe

Banned
Hey masochist gaf,

I recently tried to play BB for the third time, but the frame pacing issues give me a headache and I can't play it. It was my first proper foray into Souls and I was picking it up okay, the main thing I had was a lack of patience but the game was definitely telling me I needed it...

I really loved what I played but it was just too uncomfortable.

I've not read much about Nioh but I know it's 60fps and I've read it runs well so I shouldn't have the same issue. Picked up a copy on a whim today.

I have a feeling I'm going to suck pretty hardcore at this for a while, so any advice for newbies would be really appreciated! I tend to avoid games like this as my gaming time is usually for unwinding more than testing myself these days, but I feel like a challenge...

Cheers!
 
F0rneus

F0rneus

Tears in the rain
If you lack patience it might not a genre for you. Nioh, like Dark Souls and BB, expect you to fail over and over. And it expects you to learn from that. That's the only advice you really need.

That and to not panic over builds and putting points wherever. Respeccing is easy.
 
D

Dysun

Member
Dont be afraid to lose your 'souls/amirta', these games are more about learning then they are about steady progression.
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
F0rneus said:
If you lack patience it might not a genre for you. Nioh, like Dark Souls and BB, expect you to fail over and over. And it expects you to learn from that. That's the only advice you really need.

That and to not panic over builds and putting points wherever. Respeccing is easy.
Click to expand...

I didn't before playing BB...

It took me quite a while to get past the Cleric Beast. I gave up twice, third time was the charm once I realised how patient I needed to be... From there I made it quite quickly to the part with the chaingun on the tower, but at that point the FP issues were overwhelming. It's a real shame too, I was loving the game itself.

So I think I can manage the patience part now. I took a look at the beta of Nioh very briefly, but it seemed quite overwhelming which is the main reason I made the thread. I know sometimes with games like this you can miss something obvious.

Or perhaps I should just go in blind...

(15 mins!)
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
Ok, so I played for a few hours last night.

I finished the tower quite quickly. The game eased me in a lot more smoothly than BB and I made steady progress, but I was pretty tense the entire time waiting for the game to slap me down and teach me about patience again.

I died a few times being too greedy with combos, pulling too many enemies at once, not paying attention to my surroundings etc... but now I'm finding the faster combat and the ability to dance around with doges to be much more suited to my preferences. I did try DS2 on PC a while ago, but I didn't like the weighty/defensive style. BB was different with its more aggressive approach, but the frame pacing killed it. :(

Nioh feels pretty much perfect for me in terms of balance of patience required and ability to be aggressive. I'm early on but I think this will be the first game of this type I stick out.

-

I finished the Tower, the Tutorial, and I'm on the first main area. I got to a small house with a Demon inside and panic died for the evening, looking forward to trying again later!

I have a few questions:

1. What are the red enemy grave exactly? They're really fun challenges and I'm making sure to do every one I find for the learning and the loot. Is there anything I should be aware of regarding these guys or are they just optional challenges?

2. Is there any way I should be building stats etc...? I know you can respec easily, but I'd still like any advice as I don't have the most amount of time to game and I'd rather be playing smoothly than working out stat stuff if possible (might change if I get super invested).

3. The game is doing a pretty good job of teaching me how to play which surprised me as I thought it would be more ambiguous like Souls. I'm still concerned I'll be missing something important though. Are there any slightly obscure mechanics or management/QoL things I could be missing?

4. I try to use my Ki recharge when I can, but I'm not great at it at the moment. I can usually get enough Ki back to keep my momentum, but the Ki flash thing that expels the darkness when it recharges your entire gauge or whatever that was in the tutorial I've completely ignored. Should I be learning this?

-

I'm really enjoying this so far, but I know that sometimes if I hit a wall in a game I just give up. I want to try to avoid that by learning some key stuff early. If there's any advice anyone has it would be really appreciated!
 
W

Waffle Burger

Member
Yes, learn ki pulse. There are abilities under the combat trees that allow for ki pulse on dodge, I found it easier to dodge than to reach for the proper button.

Edit: I forgot to note that I was using low and mid stance most of the time, low stance will always step dodge and mid stance always starts out as a step dodge and the second dodge is a roll so I didn't interrupt combos by dodging too far. I tried to keep my dodge rating at B or A (equip weight stat.)
 
V

Vertti

Member
Sloth skill makes everything much easier to the point I stopped using it in bosses.

I really loved an axe in heavy stance. I used it constantly because it's so damn satisfying to pummel enemies for huge damage. That said, experiment with different weapons and styles to find your favourite weapons.
 
batman2million

batman2million

Member
Its not better than a souls game. I loved BB and DS3 but I gad to drop this game half way though because it wasn't nearly as fun.
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
I bought the ability that recharges more Ki when you switch stances, but it's a bit too much right now. The dodge skill sounds much more intuitive, I'll look into it thanks!

And stances... I'm mixing them up to get used to the attack styles, but I'm not exactly sure when they should be used exactly. I take it these become essential to understand later?
 
Nestunt

Nestunt

Member
Explore every nook and cranny of each area. Take it slow.

After a few hours in, try to understand which playstyle fits you best and min-max the stats that go well with that.

Don't be afraid of bosses. Be aggressive (the opposite of how you treated small enemies and area exploration).

I am 5 missions away from beating the game, and I am having a very pleasant experience by focusing on leveling up Ki, Ki Pulse and Defense (other stats come along with them), and also facing tougher enemies with the three-heavies combo of the spear mid stance.

(oh! Once you get the chance, unlock the Sloth Omnyo spell. It will help with cheap bosses).
 
L

Lork

Member
The gravestones are players who have died. The ones with red names are pre-placed by the developers to make sure there are some around in case you're playing offline.

Make sure you do the missions that appear in the dojo after the basic tutorial. They're not just tutorials, they unlock skills.

As for stances, it's just a matter of learning the properties of the various attacks for your chosen weapon and switching to whichever one is optimal for the current situation. For example, the stabbing attack with the spear in mid stance does a ton of ki damage for some reason, so one of my go-to strategies for fighting yokai (any of the demons with purple ki bars) was to spam the mid stab until they were out of ki, then switch to high stance to do a high damage combo.
 
C

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Zakalwe said:
I have a few questions:

1. What are the red enemy grave exactly? They're really fun challenges and I'm making sure to do every one I find for the learning and the loot. Is there anything I should be aware of regarding these guys or are they just optional challenges?
Click to expand...

The Red Graves are where players died in their game, you can summon an NPC 'phantom' of their character to fight with for a chance to earn a piece of loot that they died with while equipped.

You can also find NPC red graves where the developers placed to warn you of dangers ahead, these would be noted by their red description. For example "Death by ambush" or "Death by Falling". Finally they might also give you clues on a particularly unique secret puzzle.

Zakalwe said:
2. Is there any way I should be building stats etc...? I know you can respec easily, but I'd still like any advice as I don't have the most amount of time to game and I'd rather be playing smoothly than working out stat stuff if possible (might change if I get super invested).
Click to expand...

Try to bump everything up to 10 minimum. Nioh is slightly different from Souls in that the largest bonus of the stats are usually from 10-15, and they benefit your character regardless of what build type you're going for.

I would also always invest in Spirit to unlock more passive bonuses from Guardian Spirits.

To do the mission that unlocks the mystic arts for Onmyou and Ninjutsu, you'll need 20 in magic and dex respectively.

Zakalwe said:
3. The game is doing a pretty good job of teaching me how to play which surprised me as I thought it would be more ambiguous like Souls. I'm still concerned I'll be missing something important though. Are there any slightly obscure mechanics or management/QoL things I could be missing?
Click to expand...

- The more kodama (little green fellows) you find, the more your base healing portion increases. Every 5 Kodama = 1 more base healing portion, max at 8. Every new region the counter resets.

- Soul matching from the blacksmith gets very expensive very fast the more you use it on the same item. The lower the rarity of the weapon you want to upgrade, the cheaper it is. The higher the rarity of the weapon you want to sacrifice, the cheaper it is.

- Don't sell or offer up your trash gear. For maximum benefit, always break them down at the blacksmith. Every the sum of their parts sell for more.

Zakalwe said:
4. I try to use my Ki recharge when I can, but I'm not great at it at the moment. I can usually get enough Ki back to keep my momentum, but the Ki flash thing that expels the darkness when it recharges your entire gauge or whatever that was in the tutorial I've completely ignored. Should I be learning this?
Click to expand...

It's quite important as you will find yourself in situations where you are surrounded with the black pool and they would greatly affect your natural Ki recovery rate.

There are alternate ways to deal with them but the ki pulse is the most efficient.
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
Don't worry too much about your character build for your first playthrough. Stick to the basic and learn how to ki pulse, how different weapon type combos and how they feel, use class sets when you can, find those kodama for their blessing, and more importantly, have fun!
 
G

GoldenCrow

Member
Play the games mechanics rather than imposing a souls-like approach though the wary approach will do you well in the beginning. Once you get to grips with the enemy movement styles be aggressive, ki pulse, use skills, change stances, switch weapons, dodge, block, utilise ninjitsu and onmyo. The games levelling system doesn't force you to focus on a specific build from the beginning and can respec at any point so experiment and find what works for you, there is a lot to play with and many different ways to approach every encounter. Maybe a standard souls approach of kiting then punishing openings is what will work best for you but that is only one play style the game offers, you can focus on just one weapon or ignore them altogether by only using magic or projectiles, or you can use everything all at once in an RPG meets character action combat system mix.
 
C

Capra

Member
Ki Pulse is crucial. As soon as you can, invest some points into unlocking the skills that pulse when you change stances and dodge, and practice the timing. Being able to consistently do that after attacking will make things much easier for you as the difficulty ramps up.

Use high-stance attacks to break through enemy stamina/ki and make them vulnerable. There's an early boss who will punish you relentlessly until you figure out how to do this, after which they (and the rest of the game) become much more manageable.

Omnyo is really powerful and definitely worth investing in for the buff/debuff skills alone. I don't know if they nerfed it since I played, but there's one Omnyo skill that pretty much breaks the game (the one that slows enemies). Some people will tell you not to use it simply because of how much it trivializes a lot of encounters, but it's there if you need it.
 
S

Sarcasm

Member
Realize in no way it is related or like dark souls, except for shortcuts.

Feels more like ninja gaiden.

AuthenticM said:
jeez, really?
Click to expand...

He is talking about BB and its pretty frequent in it. Jarring at first. Once you get use to it if you do you don't notice it as much. Take a break and go back, jarring AF.
 
J

jipewithin

Member
There are nice buffs in ninjutsu and omnyo which you should consider. Learn to ki pulse, take ki pulse dodge skills as early as you can in all stances. I found omnyo spell which heals you over time really useful, saves a lot of elixirs when just exploring maps.
 
A

almostjuliuscaesar

Member
Focus on sword and double sword to begin with, combination of speed and power you can develop will give you a good base.

Learn the auto back jump skill (I'm forgetting the name but you'll know it when you see it. It involves pressing triangle to end your combo) it is invaluable not only in the field but in boss fights when combined with the back dash as it gets you out of hit range after doing damage.

Be sure to learn how to parry. You will manhandle all humanoid (ones that fight like or similar to you) bosses when you master this

Be sure to keep your skills level to start so you can complete all the dojo challenges. This make you better not only with rewards but actually learning how to battle these people and their more difficult iterations.

Every boss has a cycle and some will change when health gets lower, and I recommend a suicide run the first go without wasting any of your items or spirit skill to get a feel for them, and make sure you die by the entrance so it's easier to collect your amrita on respawn. And you can just run to the boss door on revival.

(Hint the first time you fight the thunder lion,
make sure you have a roof over your head. You can bait him there and basically wack away while side stepping his thunder and or poison breath)

That's basically it, you can experiment with the other weapons when you have a good base and be sure to try and get both enemy and kodama sense. And save your blacksmith favors for decreasing the soul match price!
 
C

Crab Milk Mickey

Member
Zakalwe said:
I bought the ability that recharges more Ki when you switch stances, but it's a bit too much right now. The dodge skill sounds much more intuitive, I'll look into it thanks!

And stances... I'm mixing them up to get used to the attack styles, but I'm not exactly sure when they should be used exactly. I take it these become essential to understand later?
Click to expand...
There's a difference between Ki Pulse through stance swapping and via dodge, by the way. The former (called Ki Flux) allows you to gain more stamina than you've lost if done correctly, whereas normal Ki Pulses including the dodge one only offers the white portion of your stamina bar. Ki Flux II even allows you to increase that advantage if you cycle through two stances, though obviously that requires more finger gymnastics than plain old Ki Pulse. Secondly: only really bother with unlocking Ki Pulse dodge on Low stance during the early game, since it's a) generally speaking the most effective dodge out of the three stances and b) the cheapest of the bunch in terms of Samurai skill points.

With regards to the stances: they all have specific utilities and additional nuances worth looking into by default. Low stance is the fastest in attack speed and dodging, consumes less stamina but does the least damage out of the three. Mid stance has comparatively slower attack speed, but its attacks have more reach (especially horizontally for let's say both katana) and inflict more damage. High stance has the highest damage output (including stamina) and typically an enemy's block won't stagger you, but it's slow like molasses and has objectively the worst dodge out of the three. There's more to the underlying strengths of a given stance and they further vary depending on which skills you unlock. If for example you put points into the Katana tree, then you'll notice that the Mid stance has the ability to parry when opened up! All active abilities also have a demo video for you to watch inside that menu too.

One last semi-unrelated tip: be sure to spend Samurai skill points for the kick move, regardless of what weapon you're wielding. Doesn't look like much at first glance, but it eats chunks from an enemy's stamina when you land it. Easily overlooked if you're not aware of this.

ultraJosh said:
get a spear. cheese revenant with said spear for better gear. cheese entire game with spear.
Click to expand...
Cheesing with the spear is such a waste of a highly enjoyable moveset:

mosqco.gif
 
S

Salty Rice

Member
KI Pulse is a really important mechanic.

Its feels OP after you played some time without at the start.

Use the weapon type you are most comfortable with. Spear is really good for beginners.

Leveling up your character helps.

Also of course
Git Gud
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
Woah, thanks for the feedback everyone, especially those who took the time to answer my specific questions.

I'm feeling a /lot/ less overwhelmed now, and I'm really excited about getting back into this later!

I'll update later if I have any more questions, thanks a bunch!

AuthenticM said:
jeez, really?
Click to expand...

Yeh. It's never happened to me before and it's a really uncomfortable reaction. I can't play it for more than 10 minutes or so without it happening. :(
 
F

Fachasaurus

Member
Learn how Discord works. Basically if you put two elemental debuffs on an enemy, they take massively increased damage. Works really great on higher HP baddies. It's insanely powerful once you can apply it but it takes some doing. I still suck at it pretty bad.
 
S

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
Fachasaurus said:
Learn how Discord works. Basically if you put two elemental debuffs on an enemy, they take massively increased damage. Works really great on higher HP baddies. It's insanely powerful once you can apply it but it takes some doing. I still suck at it pretty bad.
Click to expand...

If I had, for example, a lightning sword and a fire spear, could I apply discord by switching between the two during a fight?
 
C

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Screaming Meat said:
If I had, for example, a lightning sword and a fire spear, could I apply discord by switching between the two during a fight?
Click to expand...

Yes but you can only refresh the timer with a different element to keep it going.

If you want to trigger discord again with fire and lightning you have to wait till the timer runs out.
 
L

lowhighkang_LHK

Member
Zakalwe said:
Hey masochist gaf,

I recently tried to play BB for the third time, but the frame pacing issues give me a headache and I can't play it. It was my first proper foray into Souls and I was picking it up okay, the main thing I had was a lack of patience but the game was definitely telling me I needed it...

I really loved what I played but it was just too uncomfortable.

I've not read much about Nioh but I know it's 60fps and I've read it runs well so I shouldn't have the same issue. Picked up a copy on a whim today.

I have a feeling I'm going to suck pretty hardcore at this for a while, so any advice for newbies would be really appreciated! I tend to avoid games like this as my gaming time is usually for unwinding more than testing myself these days, but I feel like a challenge...

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Play the tutorial / dojo.

Learn the mechanics properly. Utilize items and resources.

Think before you act. Think before you get angry and learn from your mistakes.

And most importantly utilize skills / ninjitsu / magic. They are helpful. Particularly ones like sloth talisman, quick change etc.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Crab Milk Mickey said:
Cheesing with the spear is such a waste of a highly enjoyable moveset:

mosqco.gif
Click to expand...

I dunno. After 500 hours of playing Nioh i find that this kind of thing is just being flashy to be flashy. Its not technically competent, since he's only fighting against a single zombie, and he's already lost all of his Ki jumping around.
 
C

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Screaming Meat said:
Lord. That's a fair bit of work then.
Click to expand...

Depends. You can do it like this:

Weapon 1 - Water
Weapon 2 - Lightning
Bombs - Fire
Guardian Tailsman (1) - Wind
Guardian Tailsman (2) - Earth

^Before you had to use element shot or element buff to get the last one but now that you can switch between two Guardians on the fly you'll only need to use Guardian tailsman.
 
Z

Zetta

Member
Play,die,learn and repeat until you die less lol. Also Kusarigama High Stance is you friend against single bosses/enemies.
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
Hit a wall at the Pirate boss (demon on the ship). Bosses are the part I always lack patience with in these types of games, and this would be a point I might give up usually. I really like this game though, and I want to get good.

I've tried two techniques so far:

First I went with single sword low stance and tried to dance around behind him and chip away. I can see it's possible to dodge his aoe swings by moving closer and further away from him to jump between the swings, so perhaps I should just stick at learning this?

Second I remembered what someone suggested here about using a high stance, and it seemed to be quite effective. It depletes his Ki bar and sometimes stuns him (what's the condition for this?), and this way i managed to get him to the second phase.

Which would be the best? Or a mix?

Going to try again later, quite determined to actually be able to finish this game.
 
L

Lork

Member
If you deplete a yokai's ki it will always be staggered by every attack until it recovers. This is your opportunity to go ham and pile on the damage.

Some yokai (such as the boss you're fighting, Onryoki) have horns that can be broken with some attacks. Breaking the horn will instantly deplete its ki and make it fall down, but can only be done once. The specific attacks that are likely to break a horn differ depending on your weapon type, but high stance is a good bet for obvious reasons - or you could try shooting it.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Another tip would be to use blocking every now and then, especially in mid-stance, it can be a life-saver. Yes, dodging is critically important, but blocking is there for a reason too. Just make sure your ki doesn't get fully drained.
 
V

Van Bur3n

Member
It is definitely important to pay attention to your opponent's ki. High stance attacks are offer higher damage (as well as ki damage) at the cost of speed and dodging. Each stance has its own use and its kind of up to you to determine the best one to use with whatever enemy you face.

Mixing up the stances is the best way to get the most out of a weapon. I've seen a lot of folk playing Nioh like a Souls game and just sticking to only one stance and I feel it doesn't do the game's amazing combat justice and also makes a lot of encounters harder than they need to be.

I can't offer too much in your specific situation as I have little experience with the sword, I used the spear and kusarigama throughout my playthrough. But keep what I said in mind.

Also, when it comes to choosing your weapons, try using ones that share a similar attribute. Make things easier when leveling so you're not too spread out trying to level so many different attributes when you can just level one attribute that benefits both weapons.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
Don't play it like Souls is basically the biggest tip. Otherwise, the past two pages in the OT have all the main tips we needed to give when the game came out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

LTTP Monster Hunter: World....this is a coop game, right?
15
1K
LavitzSlambert replied
Time(s) where you thought, “WT ackchyual H were the devs thinking?!”
2
97
4K
TerribleAtThisGame replied
So I played Ocarina of Time for the very first time, and this game could do with a modern remake
2 3 4
165
10K
Dirk Benedict replied
LTTP: Lords of the Fallen (2023) | Great potential, bad design decisions
Opinion LTTP
17
1K
Portugeezer replied
Started Star Ocean: The Divine Force. I'm a big Star Ocean fan, but so far, ehhh... Anyone play this?
27
2K
STARSBarry replied
Top Bottom