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Sonic 3D directors cut patch announced (Not associated with Sega)

B

bomblord1

Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_aal1U7bGQ

This is from someone on the original team purportedly but in no way connected with Sega this is basically just a patch for the game for people who know how to patch it.

He's going to attempt to
  • Make the movement and handling better
  • Make Gameplay less frustrating
  • Add Super Sonic
  • Add a level editor
  • Add back prototype crab
  • Game saves
  • Updated Options screen
  • Toggle for the directors cut mode

sQk19XY.png
 
J

Jebusman

Banned
As someone who actually enjoyed both Sonic 3D Blast and Sonic R, I've really enjoyed seeing all the prototype stuff he's been finding. Kind of helps being the founder of the company who made them.
 
Randomizer

Randomizer

Member
Been watching some of his videos lately, very insightful stuff. Great behind the scenes of MegaDrive game development and all the programming tricks needed and used back then. I especially liked his video about how he coded his games so that all CPU errors led to a level select lol. And that users discovered an unintentional bug with the Sonic 3D Blast cartridge, shaking it would load the level select.

Too bad Sonic 3D Blast isn't a particularly good game besides it's technically achievements. The guy seems pretty talented and I'm sure he will improve the game immensely.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
I wish we had more developers do this. We get some great things on TCRF and the like, but that only tells you the how, and almost never the why.
 
S

Sciz

Member
There's only so much one programmer can do to fix the game, but it's super cool that he's trying at all. The list of game devs who've gone back to their own work from twenty years ago to write a new patch has to be vanishingly small.
 
Z

Zubz

Banned
Game Hut's been delivering on cool background stuff, but this is extreme! I hope SEGA doesn't DMCA this; 3D Blast wasn't good, but it'd be nice to see a "Director's Cut." Besides, nothing's stopping SEGA from making this official like original Whitehead ports, right?

Foffy said:
That channel is legit. I believe the guy running it used to work at Traveller's Tales.
Click to expand...

I believe he's the former owner. Could be wrong, though!
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Sciz said:
There's only so much one programmer can do to fix the game, but it's super cool that he's trying at all. The list of game devs who've gone back to their own work from twenty years ago to write a new patch has to be vanishingly small.
Click to expand...

I mean, back then they only had a few programmers on a project anyways. The tools for mass organization just didn't exist at the time and weren't needed. You could get by with a staff of 10-20 people in a mid-tier studio and only a few would be touching the code while everyone else would be on design, graphics, music, etc.

Last time I looked at this channel he only had like 3 videos, the stuff he's added since are ever more amazing even if I have little nostalgia for these games (I never had a genesis, and my saturn was a Working Designs machine)
 
alf717

alf717

Member
These are the kinds of things I enjoy watching or reading about. I really enjoy the old school tricks programmers used to maximize the hardware they were working on.
 
Randomizer

Randomizer

Member
Damn he directed or designed pretty much every Lego game and even produced a bunch of movies too. He's also working on an unannounced game project and he's doing this YouTube stuff in his spare time. How people fit so much into their lives blows my mind. Productivity off the scales!!
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
HomerSimpson-Man said:
Discovered Game Hut on Youtube recently, and it's insane at what Traveler Tales was pushing on the Genesis, they are damn miracle workers on the Genesis, and it was all stock hardware, no extra chips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEBDwP9DRds
Click to expand...

This video is fascinating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8qgArSqMsc

It shows how Jon used a bug in the Genesis hardware (using the DMA) to create up to 512 colours in screen out of 4096 simulated colours.

Traveller's Takes were most definitely up there with some of the best coders on the Genesis/ Mega Drive hardware.
 
L

Lindsay

Dot Hacked
Genesis version? Bleh. Understandable though.

Sadly I dun see a "make the game less nauseating" bullet point listed! Last time I played through the game I started feeling sick and had ta keep each session fairly brief.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
Sciz said:
There's only so much one programmer can do to fix the game, but it's super cool that he's trying at all. The list of game devs who've gone back to their own work from twenty years ago to write a new patch has to be vanishingly small.
Click to expand...


One of the few examples of this that I can think of is RollCage Redux: http://www.codemonkey.me.uk/rollcage_redux.php

Which is an updated game engine implementation for the original Windows version of RollCage, done by the original programmer.


HomerSimpson-Man said:
Freakin' insane. It's a shame he didn't get to fully implement the tech in games.
Click to expand...

It has something to do with different Genesis revisions having different CPU clock speeds. Some models would cause the image to distort because of the slightly different clock frequencies.
 
C

chaobreaker

Member
Dang, never knew there was so much talent in Traveler's Tales. Always saw them as that dev that gets handed licenses and who made those Sonic spinoffs of neglible quality
 
H

HomerSimpson-Man

Member
MrCunningham said:
One of the few examples of this that I can think of is RollCage Redux: http://www.codemonkey.me.uk/rollcage_redux.php

Which is an updated game engine implementation for the original Windows version of RollCage, done by the original programmer.




It has something to do with different Genesis revisions having different CPU clock speeds. Some models would cause the image to distort because of the slightly different clock frequencies.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it seemed the workaround was the manual tune settings to fix that issue.
 
C

Candescence

Member
I think a director's cut would be far better served on the PC version, which has a better soundtrack and doesn't inherently limit modding in terms of scope. But I suppose it's understandable why he'd focus on the Mega Drive version, especially if he doesn't actually have the original code for that port, and it'd be more impressive to achieve his aims in that version.
 
D

devonodev

Member
His channel is definitely worth checking out, ever since I found it a few weeks ago I've been obsessed. I'll have to try this.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
HomerSimpson-Man said:
Yeah, it seemed the workaround was the manual tune settings to fix that issue.
Click to expand...

I wonder if he could have wrote a small macro or something that could have detected the CPU clock speed and just auto adjusted the image? Jon also points out that this trick doesn't work on emulators, only in the real hardware.
 
Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Jon was (is) still pretty much as good a 68k coder as I've ever known/worked with (for actually!).

Honestly it'd come down to him and Tommy Schlott (Tom Kuhn) who did the NVX demo's that owned Assembly in the mid/late 90's.

Ridiculously talented guys, I remember trying to match Jon's shift-scroller method (from Leander/Kid Galahad) and although what I put together seemed fast by regular standards, his was just so much more efficient it was kinda depressing. :D

If memory serves I believe Jon got his start with the Beast demo, which is kinda funny as its basically an exercise in one-upmanship over Psygnosis own product, which of course is the same company that him and Andy (Ingram) started out as Traveller's thanks to one of Ian H's legendary handshake deals.

Damn... this shit really takes me back :D
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Candescence said:
I think a director's cut would be far better served on the PC version, which has a better soundtrack and doesn't inherently limit modding in terms of scope. But I suppose it's understandable why he'd focus on the Mega Drive version, especially if he doesn't actually have the original code for that port, and it'd be more impressive to achieve his aims in that version.
Click to expand...
Too bad the special stage in the PC version is complete ass. Especially compared to the amazing Saturn version.

I wish there was some way to toggle the Saturn soundtrack (in chiptune form), but I understand that’s probably outside of his scope.

In any case I’m pretty excited to play this director’s cut version. I’ve always found Sonic 3D to be okay in its own right, but definitely could have been more. Wonder if he plans on streamlining the collectathon gameplay - the No Flickies hack is somewhat limited because it doesn’t redesign the levels to accommodate the gameplay, so it becomes piss easy.
 
H

HomerSimpson-Man

Member
MrCunningham said:
I wonder if he could have wrote a small macro or something that could have detected the CPU clock speed and just auto adjusted the image? Jon also points out that this trick doesn't work on emulators, only in the real hardware.
Click to expand...

The note about emulators has me thinking that means Genesis emulation stills has some ways to get accurate if he discovered tricks due to hardware quarks that can only run on real hardware.

I can only imagine the crazy stuff homebrewers can do with his tech.
 
S

Sciz

Member
KojiKnight said:
I mean, back then they only had a few programmers on a project anyways. The tools for mass organization just didn't exist at the time and weren't needed. You could get by with a staff of 10-20 people in a mid-tier studio and only a few would be touching the code while everyone else would be on design, graphics, music, etc.
Click to expand...

Right, I just mean it in the sense that actually polishing 3DB into a good game would require some broad design reworks and probably some artist time as well, which is simply outside the scope of what he's doing here.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
Sciz said:
Right, I just mean it in the sense that actually polishing 3DB into a good game would require some broad design reworks and probably some artist time as well, which is simply outside the scope of what he's doing here.
Click to expand...

I actually kinda liked Sonic 3D Blast. Yeah, it is far from being one of the best games on the Genesis console, but at the same time there are so many worse games than Sonic 3D Blast on the system too. I generally rank it somewhere in the middle of the road. But I think it got much harsher criticism than it should have for just being a Sonic game. It the Sonic license was removed, it wouldn't have been as hated as it was. Yeah it does have some quirks being isometric, and all. Especially when it comes to judging the distance of platforms, which is a pain. But even then the platforming was left to a minimal. Collision could be a little wonky too.

The game itself is still a pretty impressive tech demo. The game managed to produce some pretty big stages with little slowdown. The in-game CG BG tiles and sprites didn't look too bad for what they were. Obviously, all the FMV cutscenes were a nice touch. Also, Sonic 3D Blast does have one of the best soundtracks on the Genesis. I might even say that it has one of my favorite soundtracks in the 16bit Sonic series.

The Saturn game does have some nice visual upgrades, as well as that Polygon 3D bonus stage and a Richard Jacques soundtrack (though I am not a big fan of his work, but people like him). But at the same time the Saturn port was like rubbing salt in the wounds of anyone expecting an original Sonic game on the Saturn.

Sonic R was also an impressive tech demo on the Saturn, but as a game, it felt empty. Jon has some really early beta videos of Sonic R on his website too.


HomerSimpson-Man said:
The note about emulators has me thinking that means Genesis emulation stills has some ways to get accurate if he discovered tricks due to hardware quarks that can only run on real hardware.

I can only imagine the crazy stuff homebrewers can do with his tech.
Click to expand...

I think FPGA's will be what gets Genesis Emulation close enough to the real hardware that it will be indistinguishable. But as far as software emulation goes... yeah, there's no true accurate emulation available. I honestly think Jon should make his little colour demo readily available, it could be useful to emulation developers.


Clear said:
Jon was (is) still pretty much as good a 68k coder as I've ever known/worked with (for actually!).

Honestly it'd come down to him and Tommy Schlott (Tom Kuhn) who did the NVX demo's that owned Assembly in the mid/late 90's.

Ridiculously talented guys, I remember trying to match Jon's shift-scroller method (from Leander/Kid Galahad) and although what I put together seemed fast by regular standards, his was just so much more efficient it was kinda depressing. :D

If memory serves I believe Jon got his start with the Beast demo, which is kinda funny as its basically an exercise in one-upmanship over Psygnosis own product, which of course is the same company that him and Andy (Ingram) started out as Traveller's thanks to one of Ian H's legendary handshake deals.
Click to expand...

Interesting story there. I don't know much about this guy's backstory, but yeah you can tell he has some Amiga demo scene roots. Kinda like Zyrinx, Scavenger, Clockwork Tortoise, Domark Software and a couple other old development groups from back in the day.
 
Yoshi

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
The programming expertise at display is astonishing. However, Sonic 3D Blast is such an outstandingly horrible game that I do not see much one could do to salvage it. If one could limit the whole game to the special levels, but put in a lot more of them, it could at least be servicable.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
This is relevant to my interests. I quite enjoyed Sonic 3D Blast when I played it earlier this year.
I do feel it could've been a little shorter though but otherwise I enjoyed it.
 
Y

Yukinari

Member
Im just glad someone from TT is working on a game that isnt lego related.

That company is wasting their talent on lego games.
 
B

bomblord1

Banned
Yukinari said:
Im just glad someone from TT is working on a game that isnt lego related.

That company is wasting their talent on lego games.
Click to expand...

Honestly never associated anything else with them but I never owned a Sega console growing up. Weird to think they used to be in a lot more prominent and technically impressive projects.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
Sonic 3D Director's Cut - Gameplay Update! : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1noOrwMsc8

Changes so far:
  • Different handing, Sonic moves at two speeds. At the slower speed Sonic has more friction and tighter control. When moving in long distances Sonic will speed up and lose some friction.
  • Character top speed has been increased to make Sonic feel more Sonic-like.
  • Updated camera, The camera will move forward giving more room to see ahead.
  • Improved clipping so Sonic doesn't come to a complete stop when hitting walls, he will now just lose speed.
  • Flicky icons will flash when you lose a Flicky
  • Sonic will not lose Flickies when he has rings. Flickies will only be lost when Sonic has no rings.
  • Flickies will now find a way to get back to Sonic when lost.
  • Flickies can act like a shield from projectiles. The more Flickies Sonic has the better protection he gets.
  • Improved collision on giant level rings and Tails and Knuckles
  • Spikes removed from enemies in first stage.
  • Fixed bug in Volcano Zone where Sonic's shadow will now be visible on breakable rocks.
  • Score now visible on the top right. But may be removed if it causes memory issues.
 
S

SciencePilot

Member
This sounds awesome. I'd love to try this director's cut, as I could never get into the original game, but this seems like it improves a lot.
 
B

Buddy Mcpuddy

Member
His channel is really insightful and having only discovered it a few days ago, I think I've already watched most of his content.

That said, I don't think a directors cut patch can save Sonic 3D blast. That game is fucking awful.
 
Z

Zubz

Banned
The increased top speed has me a bit worried, actually. The friction's definitely the worst part, but the sprites are too large; I still feel we'll be careening into obstacles with this change.

I like every other change, though, & am still fascinated by this project! I definitely want to see if they can fix 3D Blast.
 
V

Velocity:Design:Comfort

Banned
thepenguin55 said:
A shame this couldn’t be done for the Saturn version. Cool that this is happening though!
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. But I think then it would come down to a patch no one would really bother figuring out how to apply. Saturn emulation in its own right is pretty wonky and not up to snuff with...well, pretty much every other console ever.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
Velocity:Design:Comfort said:
Agree 100%. But I think then it would come down to a patch no one would really bother figuring out how to apply. Saturn emulation in its own right is pretty wonky and not up to snuff with...well, pretty much every other console ever.
Click to expand...

It might be a hard thing to do given the lack of tools, I could only imagine.
 
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