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Does the fervor over loot boxes frustrate you?

R

RastaMentality

Banned
Please hear me out.

I understand there are a lot of genuine concerns regarding the ethics of loot boxes in video games but at the end of the day, they are just video games.

I recall seeing stories of many gamers organizing to protest ESRB and call congresspeople to pursue change. I can't help but think how much more valuable that effort would be if it were spent on more important causes like our current political issues. Isn't it worrisome that some people are more enraged by microstransactions in video games than black children being shot and killed by the police?
 
X

xRaizen

Member
Just cause some effort is spent against one thing doesn't mean it's spent on nothing else.

You can care about and use effort on more than one issue
 
R

RastaMentality

Banned
xRaizen said:
Just cause some effort is spent against one thing doesn't mean it's spent on nothing else.

You can care about and use effort on more than one issue
Click to expand...

I agree with this. But the reason I don't think it applies here is that I never see the gamer crowd upset about racism.
 
D

dorkkaos

Member
RastaMentality said:
I agree with this. But the reason I don't think it applies here is that I never see the gamer crowd upset about racism.
Click to expand...

That's because gamers aren't just one subset of people, they are made of different people. Gamers who are upset about racism are gonna go to rallies or online forums but will not necessarily label themselves as "gamers". I play games, i'm upset about racism and other issues, but people don't always see me as a "gamer".
 
gioGAF

gioGAF

Member
Lol, way to dismiss the issue with stupid comparisons. Why are you on this forum and playing video games when there are people starving and suffering in this world?

Loot boxes are gambling in video games, period. If the products that contained this nonsense were rated Adults Only, like every other single medium that contains gambling, we wouldn't have a problem right now.

I hope the "fervor" continues until lawmakers react and put a stop to this garbage. Gambling = AO rating.
 
Rocket Number 22

Rocket Number 22

Member
RastaMentality said:
Please hear me out.

I understand there are a lot of genuine concerns regarding the ethics of loot boxes in video games but at the end of the day, they are just video games.

I recall seeing stories of many gamers organizing to protest ESRB and call congresspeople to pursue change. I can't help but think how much more valuable that effort would be if it were spent on more important causes like our current political issues. Isn't it worrisome that some people are more enraged by microstransactions in video games than black children being shot and killed by the police?
Click to expand...

Now that's a reach and a half!

Didn't someone out you as being a troll account that was shared between posters? Mods should look into your IP addresses
 
S

SMattera

Member
I still don't see a problem with loot boxes as long as they aren't pay to win.

I understand opposition to gambling and legal restrictions around it. But loot boxes are not the same as a high-stakes roulette wheel. At best, it's a virtual raffle or the lottery. Things which are restricted, but still permitted and fairly common place without much stigma.

Are there stories of people going into foreclosure because they bought too many loot boxes? Too me it just seems like a bunch of people who are jealous of others' cool skins.
 
gioGAF

gioGAF

Member
SMattera said:
I still don't see a problem with loot boxes as long as they aren't pay to win.

I understand opposition to gambling and legal restrictions around it. But loot boxes are not the same as a high-stakes roulette wheel. At best, it's a virtual raffle or the lottery. Things which are restricted, but still permitted and fairly common place without much stigma.

Are there stories of people going into foreclosure because they bought too many loot boxes? Too me it just seems like a bunch of people who are jealous of others' cool skins.
Click to expand...
No one is saying they shouldn't be permitted, they should just be labelled properly (Adults Only). A 13 year old cannot buy lottery tickets, but they can buy/play Battlefront 2. If the developers want their game to reach a general audience, they need to take that shit out or label it properly.

The skins and loot are not a problem, it is the psychology behind the system. Make no mistake about it, these systems are researched thoroughly to be as exploitative as possible. They aren't a simple harmless game about "stuff", sure you won't lose your house but you are being manipulated. I see no problem with adults dealing with such a system, but many children play these same games. They don't know what they are seeing/doing/feeling and that is where the line needs to be drawn.

I wouldn't want any child in my family to play Gamblefront 2, I already see too many 7 year old junkies on "free" phone games.
 
S

SMattera

Member
gioGAF said:
No one is saying they shouldn't be permitted, they should just be labelled properly (Adults Only). A 13 year old cannot buy lottery tickets, but they can buy/play Battlefront 2. If the developers want their game to reach a general audience, they need to take that shit out or label it properly.

The skins and loot are not a problem, it is the psychology behind the system. Make no mistake about it, these systems are researched thoroughly to be as exploitative as possible. They aren't a simple harmless game about "stuff", sure you won't lose your house but you are being manipulated. I see no problem with adults dealing with such a system, but many children play these same games. They don't know what they are seeing/doing/feeling and that is where the line needs to be drawn.

I wouldn't want any child in my family to play Gamblefront 2, I already see too many 7 year old junkies on "free" phone games.
Click to expand...

But you can buy/play Battlefront 2 and ignore the loot boxes. It isn't fundamental to the experience. That would be like saying children can't buy candy at a gas station because they also sell lottery tickets.

I'm not the first person to point this out, but games are by their very nature designed around exploitative psychology. MMOs with their repetitive fetch quests and long distance travel, etc. have been designed to limit how much content you can burn through and keep people subscribing. The Destiny grind encourages you to stay with the game and get the DLC, etc.
 
V

Vicetrailia

Member
RastaMentality said:
. Isn't it worrisome that some people are more enraged by microstransactions in video games than black children being shot and killed by the police?
Click to expand...

You're definitely some kind of troll. I'm not sure if you're trying to test the waters of how much nonsense you can pull to aid racial oppression, or if you are corralling and outting racists (probably not).

We do at a default care way more than about one issue at a time, and additionalally we are all interested in acting on different things.
 
L

luxsol

Member
SMattera said:
But you can buy/play Battlefront 2 and ignore the loot boxes. It isn't fundamental to the experience. That would be like saying children can't buy candy at a gas station because they also sell lottery tickets.

I'm not the first person to point this out, but games are by their very nature designed around exploitative psychology. MMOs with their repetitive fetch quests and long distance travel, etc. have been designed to limit how much content you can burn through and keep people subscribing. The Destiny grind encourages you to stay with the game and get the DLC, etc.
Click to expand...

gioGAF said:
No one is saying they shouldn't be permitted, they should just be labelled properly (Adults Only). A 13 year old cannot buy lottery tickets, but they can buy/play Battlefront 2. If the developers want their game to reach a general audience, they need to take that shit out or label it properly.

The skins and loot are not a problem, it is the psychology behind the system. Make no mistake about it, these systems are researched thoroughly to be as exploitative as possible. They aren't a simple harmless game about "stuff", sure you won't lose your house but you are being manipulated. I see no problem with adults dealing with such a system, but many children play these same games. They don't know what they are seeing/doing/feeling and that is where the line needs to be drawn.

I wouldn't want any child in my family to play Gamblefront 2, I already see too many 7 year old junkies on "free" phone games.
Click to expand...

I've mostly skipped this gen with gaming, but the few games I'vep layed that have "loot" (like the remastered CoD4, right?), people are actually upset that they can't get every little texture for their character/gun/etc without going through those boxes?

If they are, i can't believe this gets more outrage and attention than putting online play behind a pay wall.
 
A

Air Zombie Meat

Member
RastaMentality said:
I think it's fairly clear by this point that neogaf was a minority among the gaming community

Every other gaming community celebrated Gaf dying but apparently I'm reaching when I say that many in the gaming community do not care about racism
Click to expand...

Yes, a lot of gamers don't care but name me a hobbyist community that cared more about racism than neogaf did or resetera does. It may exist but I've never seen it. They detest loot boxes too so it isn't incompatible with caring about racism.

I think you're reaching because of the lootbox comparison. It's a completely unrelated issue.
 
Robot Carnival

Robot Carnival

Member
yeah, if it's just cosmetic, I honestly have no issue about how they handle it. only if it's some P2W bs I would go up in arms over it. there are plenty of other things worth spending your time and effort in real life and this, to be honest, doesn't feel like one to me.
 
M

Martinski43

Member
RastaMentality said:
Please hear me out.

I understand there are a lot of genuine concerns regarding the ethics of loot boxes in video games but at the end of the day, they are just video games.

I recall seeing stories of many gamers organizing to protest ESRB and call congresspeople to pursue change. I can't help but think how much more valuable that effort would be if it were spent on more important causes like our current political issues. Isn't it worrisome that some people are more enraged by microstransactions in video games than black children being shot and killed by the police?
Click to expand...

Do congress care about black children being shot? Thought it wasn’t the case so it won’t bother them.
 
Maso

Maso

Neo Member
All these hours wasted on video games with microtransactions when we could be out protecting black children from the police.
 
C

Cimarron

Member
Are you kidding me? Come off it dude. The world is full of problems. You can't spend every moment crusading every worthy cause.

That said I loot boxes that you have to pay for are disgusting. I never spend a single dime on them. The only micro-transactions that I pay for are for added content like campaign expansions. And I only do that if I feel like the main game was a complete experience.
 
Z..

Z..

Member
RastaMentality said:
apparently I’m reaching when I say that many in the gaming community do not care about racism
Click to expand...

Gamers in general don't really care much about creating any meaningful change. The vast majority of us are decadently wealthy and living ridiculously privileged lives, on a global scale. That makes us dependent on the absence of change and by definition we are all part of the problem when it comes to getting rid of slave labour. To live in the western world makes you actively part of the problem.
In other words, you care about racism but fail to realize how small that problem when there is economic oppression on a much more massive scale being actively enforced worldwide. That makes you exactly like the people you are describing, in a sense.

Just to clarify, I find all issues you're bringing up are valid and you are absolutely right, but at the same time you don't seem to realize you do the exact same. That is, to prioritize high visibility causes but ignore bigger issues completely.
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
RastaMentality said:
Isn't it worrisome that some people are more enraged by microstransactions in video games than black children being shot and killed by the police?
Click to expand...

I remember another user accused you of being a shared account on another website to troll.

Didn't believe it at first but this line sounds completely scripted.
 
Zog

Zog

Banned
RastaMentality said:
Please hear me out.

I understand there are a lot of genuine concerns regarding the ethics of loot boxes in video games but at the end of the day, they are just video games.

I recall seeing stories of many gamers organizing to protest ESRB and call congresspeople to pursue change. I can't help but think how much more valuable that effort would be if it were spent on more important causes like our current political issues. Isn't it worrisome that some people are more enraged by microstransactions in video games than black children being shot and killed by the police?
Click to expand...

Ah, the 'Not as bad as fallacy'. Who gets to decide what is important enough to fight for and which of those takes top priority?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as
 
Zog

Zog

Banned
luxsol said:
I've mostly skipped this gen with gaming, but the few games I'vep layed that have "loot" (like the remastered CoD4, right?), people are actually upset that they can't get every little texture for their character/gun/etc without going through those boxes?

If they are, i can't believe this gets more outrage and attention than putting online play behind a pay wall.
Click to expand...

Some of us skip both. Still, I always support consumers fighting back in peaceful ways like not buying/refunding things they don't like. It's important that people raise their voice too so there is no confusion about what consumers want/don't want. These are the greatest tools consumers have.
 
Zog

Zog

Banned
RastaMentality said:
Um... I don't think that applies here

Unless you think that loot boxes are somehow more important than police brutality
Click to expand...

Of course it applies here. You are saying that since loot boxes aren't as important as police brutality then people shouldn't be wasting their time fighting against loot boxes.

I asked you who gets to decide which issues are important enough to fight for/against and which of those issues takes priority. Will you answer?
 
oxrock

oxrock

Gravity is a myth, the Earth SUCKS!
RastaMentality said:
Um... I don't think that applies here

Unless you think that loot boxes are somehow more important than police brutality
Click to expand...

One can and SHOULD be angry about more than one thing at a time. Police brutality is god awful yet somehow I don't see how ranting about it on a video game forum is going to change anything. I'm glad you feel so impassioned about it though, might I assume you've taken part in several protests in your area?
 
R

robosllim

Member
Got a real yikers of a thread here, OP. Nicely done.

If you want to defend loot boxes as not a bad thing, go ahead. Don't try to put them into a hierarchy of things to care about. Because yeah, we have a real problem with race, poverty, and law enforcement in this country, but did you know that the US is supporting a war in Yemen and exacerbating the conditions that have already caused tens of thousands of deaths, lead to a massive outbreak of disease, and displaced millions? Seems like maybe you should be focusing on the bigger issues here.
 
Freshmaker

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
RastaMentality said:
Please hear me out.

I understand there are a lot of genuine concerns regarding the ethics of loot boxes in video games but at the end of the day, they are just video games.

I recall seeing stories of many gamers organizing to protest ESRB and call congresspeople to pursue change. I can't help but think how much more valuable that effort would be if it were spent on more important causes like our current political issues. Isn't it worrisome that some people are more enraged by microstransactions in video games than black children being shot and killed by the police?
Click to expand...

People can do both you know. It's not an either/or thing.

I don't want loot boxes, so children in Africa must starve is an illogical stance.
 
A

Air Zombie Meat

Member
oxrock said:
Are you saying that the current neogaf is now racist?
Click to expand...

No. I'm saying that the part of the community that cared the most about racism isn't posting here anymore. Perhaps rastamentality could go where they are and ask them why they also bother to care about loot boxes when there are bigger issues.
 
golfham

golfham

Member
DCAxwzd_d.jpg
 
jadedm17

jadedm17

Member
RastaMentality said:
Please hear me out.

I understand there are a lot of genuine concerns regarding the ethics of loot boxes in video games but at the end of the day, they are just video games.

I recall seeing stories of many gamers organizing to protest ESRB and call congresspeople to pursue change. I can't help but think how much more valuable that effort would be if it were spent on more important causes like our current political issues. Isn't it worrisome that some people are more enraged by microstransactions in video games than black children being shot and killed by the police?
Click to expand...

The hell? Why are you on the internet and not learning another language or volunteering at an animal shelter? Wouldn't that be a better use of /your/ time?

Gaming is our hobby and we're trying to protect the integrity of that hobby - paying for skins is fine, but paying for better weapons is nonsense.

Who said we're not enraged or doing our part about social injustice?

RastaMentality said:
I agree with this. But the reason I don't think it applies here is that I never see the gamer crowd upset about racism.
Click to expand...

Are you stalking them? You see us complaining on a video game forum about the video game industry and suddenly you know we're not out voting or donating to charity?

This is the most ridiculous topic OP.

Freshmaker said:
People can do both you know. It's not an either/or thing.

I don't want loot boxes, so children in Africa must starve is an illogical stance.
Click to expand...

Crazy thought.
 
BANGS

BANGS

Banned
People have different passions and reasons for caring for things more than others. Video games are very important to me, much more important than racist people with a victim complex...

If people are only supposed to rally to support the most important thing, who will be left to support the 2nd most important thing?

Air Zombie Meat said:
No. I'm saying that the part of the community that cared the most about racism isn't posting here anymore.
Click to expand...

Thank god for that...
 
H

Holy Order Sol

Member
so people are required to talk about all the things they care about on a single forum, or they're assumed not to give a fuck because you haven't seen them say they care

tight
 
Northeastmonk

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
for everything there is a season... You could go to a news website and click on Health, Worldwide News, Local News, Tech, and Weather. Each click you'll find new issues, breakthroughs, people getting shot, and of course politics.

You can't just combine them all and you can't stop and compare the two either. My wife was saying that back in Russia there was a news station that aired your typical nightly news and then a 2nd news repor that only talked about crime and death. They literally had to separate the two because there was so much crime going on in Russia.

This is a big deal in gaming. This is the top story if you ask me because we don't want video games becoming a makeshift Casino. To some, companies and high up executives want to turn games we've genuinely enjoyed turn into some money making machine. In some ways you could think of them as video games with built in slot machines.

You can't really use the Horse, the Sun, and the tiki lamp in real life, but the same goes for that spin you have in gaming. Some of the useless items can't be used and you're cashing in because you want to hit the jackpot. Video games are like the computer. It's a tool. It can build a beautiful house or it can destroy one. Right now, it's being used in a wrong way and people are getting mad.

I'd also like to say that this almost falls in line with people and animals. I've read stories where they said that people appreciate their pets more than children. I love animals and I love children. I don't want to get rid of the Animal rescue people because that leaves animals without protection. You don't want dogs and cats to be burned, shot, dismembered, and killed just because someone enjoys it. You also don't want children to fall victim to crimes either. You can't shut down their avenues for protection. You have to keep both running and operating at the same time.
 
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