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Something HAS to be done about PC gaming piracy. But what?

Borys

Banned
Chris Taylor, one of the best developers of the PC world, a PC gaming lover admitted that it was piracy that pushed his company to start making console titles.

Iron Lore, developers of the quality RPG called Titan's Quest closed its doors this week. Reason? Piracy killed Titan's Quest sales.

(rumour) Company of Heroes developer - Relic - has collected data that shows 5 times more people pirated CoH that bought it.

Epic Games has shifted its focus from developing high-quality PC graphical showcases to making easy money in the console space.

The list of unfortunate news for PC gamers goes on and on. They all boil down to one thing: piracy.

Warezing, torrents, eMule, p2p, usenet.

These are the things that are slowly but surely killing PC gaming. Why bother walking to a shop and spending $50 when you can get the same game in 2-3 hours from Pirate Bay? For absolutely free.

So what can be done? What MUST be done before every developer on earth shifts from making PC games to making PC ports of console games?

Here are my ideas:

1) Secure Gaming: also known as on-line authentication. IMO it is the best and most warez-proof system out there. Before installing a new bought game the user has to validate his copy on developer's servers. After installation every time the game is ran it also checked against the server key. You cannot install or run this game without an active internet connection. Single player and multi player modes use the same authetntication system. You won't be even able to benchmark a timedemo without authenticating.

Pros: secure. Hard to crack. Pirates would have to fool the authentication process somehow by routing it to some fake servers or bypass it altogether. So far it's the best protection in PC gaming world.

Cons: no online - no play. Cannot play your original game that you bought for $50 because your line is down. Cannot play it on bus, train etc.

2) STEAM-like distribution only: this is something that probably won't take off. Basically it takes the model I described in point 1) and gets rid of the physical media. You won't be able to buy such game in a brick and mortar store, you'd only be able to download it (legally) from one digital distribution system or the other.

Pros: all the advantages from point 1).
Cons: what if the developer goes belly up? what if his servers are dead?

3) CD Keys: lol.

Pros: none.
Cons: everything.

4) Xbox 360: if everything else fails of if you as a developer are just fed up with PC gamers that have the balls to download your game from the internet and post about it on its official forums BEFORE the game even launches then you can just say "FUCK IT" and release your game on Xbox 360. Limited if not non-existant pirac, easy money, faithfull fanbase.

Pros: everything.
Cons: none.

Any more ideas gaffers?
 

Kabouter

Member
Harsh sentences for pirates.
Seriously, action from governments is the only thing that will truly work. It's now a crime that you'll pretty much always get away with.
 
Nothing can be done really... None of the options above actually kill Piracy. STEAM games have been cracked, Online validations have been cracked, CDKey verifications have been cracked, etc...

Cheap prices work better then all the ones above.


In the future, when everyone has superb connections, we'll be running games directly off servers, without actually having the files on our PCs, MAYBE then Piracy will be killed... until then... there's nothing to do.
 

Crayon

Member
Yeah, they should start packing in full color maps and decoders and compasses and audio cassettes and shit like they did in the old days back when we still pirated stuff anyways.

Hmmm.

No good suggestions. Sry.
 

Narcosis

Member
Kabouter said:
Seriously, action from governments is the only thing that will truly work. It's now a crime that you'll pretty much always get away with.

Action from governments does little to deter crime, especially when someone in any country can post their rips of a game file on the net for the whole world to grab. Look at how successful our government has been on the "war on drugs", and it's not as easy to get drugs into this country on a boat or through a border checkpoint as it is to rip a file off a game DVD and put it on a website or P2P network.
 

klausbert

Member
Let's face it: Protection systems don't do anything about piracy, the only thing that helps a game to not be pirated is a online gaming service that can't be accessed with a pirated copy. Protection systems like Steam, SecuROM, DRM, and other crap, especially online activation, just punishes the legal buyers, the pirates of the ole sea never get to deal with them. In the end, the people who buy a game get the worse version more than often, while Captain Hook got the better version for free.
 

Tmac

Member
The problem with pc gamming has nothing to do with piracy.


Major problems are:

- Lack of hardware compatibility
- billions of possible hardware combinations, which leads to non-optimized enviromment
- always have to update something
- install games
- crap/bugged OS / driver mgmt
- bugs
- patchs
- bugs ...
 

saelz8

Member
Not just Steam games have been cracked, the whole service itself has been cracked, though cracking it is less convenient than paying legitimately. I'm not sure exactly how it works. Valve has never really said they would stop piracy itself, but that they would stop zero day piracy.

There was just a thread about Assassins Creed on PB, that's an example of zero day piracy.

WoW has been cracked as well, with thousands of users playing on unofficial servers.
 

cilonen

Member
#4 is a joke, right?

No KB&M, no uber graphical resolutions & 100+ FPS for those with hardcore graphics cards? Plenty of cons there, so yeah gotta be a joke. :lol
 

Narcosis

Member
Tmac said:
The problem with pc gamming has nothing to do with piracy.

Yes, it does have to do with piracy. Sure, the other stuff you mentioned is a factor too (and why I stick with consoles), but to say piracy has nothing to do with the probems PC developers face is just not true.
 

zoku88

Member
Tmac said:
The problem with pc gamming has nothing to do with piracy.


Major problems are:

- Lack of hardware compatibility
- billions of possible hardware combinations, which leads to non-optimized enviromment
- always have to update something
- install games
- crap/bugged OS / driver mgmt
- bugs
- patchs
- bugs ...
There's always one... :roll-eyes:
 

Borys

Banned
Tmac said:
Major problems are:

- Lack of hardware compatibility
- billions of possible hardware combinations, which leads to non-optimized enviromment
- always have to update something
- install games
- crap/bugged OS / driver mgmt
- bugs
- patchs
- bugs ...

Yet for every PC game released there is probably about 10 times more people playing the pirated version than original one. With the same bugs, driver management, installation problems etc.
 

VaLiancY

Member
Tmac said:
The problem with pc gamming has nothing to do with piracy.


Major problems are:

- Lack of hardware compatibility
- billions of possible hardware combinations, which leads to non-optimized enviromment
- always have to update something
- install games
- crap/bugged OS / driver mgmt
- bugs
- patchs
- bugs ...

:lol :lol :lol
 

saelz8

Member
Borys said:
Yet for every PC game released there is probably about 10 times more people playing the pirated version than original one. With the same bugs, driver management, installation problems etc.
Do you have statistics for that?
 
cilonen said:
#4 is a joke, right?

No KB&M, no uber graphical resolutions & 100+ FPS for those with hardcore graphics cards? Plenty of cons there, so yeah gotta be a joke. :lol
Its about pros and cons for the devs, they could care less about those things, if they can make more money instead.

More of everything for the platform with the biggest piracy or a little less details and more money from sales from another?
 

neight

Banned
I think part of the problem is the appeal of pc gaming isn't what it used to be now that we've got these powerhouse consoles with higher production value games.
 

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
Maybe stop the torrent sites?

Yeah right, if the huge movie and music industry can't stop Torrents, then the Gaming industry can't do a damn thing.
 

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
I really do not understand it. Most new PC releases are HALF the price of their console counterpart.

If I was a PC gamer I'd have no hesitation in spending £20 on a brand new game.
 

Elbrain

Suckin' dicks since '66
I am going with authenticating the CD key or something on the companies server online. Hell if you don't at least have fucking Dial-up just to authenticate the fucking key oh well you aren't really that interested in PC gaming anyways.
 

Zer0

Banned
Kabouter said:
Harsh sentences for pirates.
Seriously, action from governments is the only thing that will truly work. It's now a crime that you'll pretty much always get away with.

lets do the chinese way?

i have bought 12 new pc games this last two months,but i dont think its the solution

online verification its a good one
 

TomServo

Junior Member
I'm almost completely ignorant to BitTorrent, so just how much worse is piracy now than it was 10 or 15 years ago?

Protection schemes have always been cracked, and I remember dialing into BBSs that had pirated copies of AAA releases like Doom 2 that weren't in stores yet. Sure the internet has opened it up a bit, but gaming in general is bigger now.

Piracy has been a legitimate concern on consoles since optical media was introduced. My college roommates had probably two or three burned games for every PSX title on their shelves. The only person I knew who didn't have a modded PSX was my cousin, who was 10 years old at the time.

Even the 360 has been cracked, yet software sales thrive on the console.
 

Kabouter

Member
Narcosis said:
Action from governments does little to deter crime, especially when someone in any country can post their rips of a game file on the net for the whole world to grab. Look at how successful our government has been on the "war on drugs", and it's not as easy to get drugs into this country on a boat or through a border checkpoint as it is to rip a file off a game DVD and put it on a website or P2P network.

I really don't see a reason why the government wouldn't be able to track people downloading illegal software when they mandate the ISP's to log all internet activity and store that info for several months.

cjelly said:
I really do not understand it. Most new PC releases are HALF the price of their console counterpart.

If I was a PC gamer I'd have no hesitation in spending £20 on a brand new game.
Can't beat free, and with no one doing anything to stop you...
 

Mindlog

Member
I agree that piracy sucks, but it's not the only source of PC's ills.

I DO (HYPOTHETICAL beause the chances of it happening are...) wonder if MS would ever be willing to (drop GFW and) package Steam with Vista. Steam seems to be doing a lot to help devs AND consumers imo.
 

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
4) Xbox 360: if everything else fails of if you as a developer are just fed up with PC gamers that have the balls to download your game from the internet and post about it on its official forums BEFORE the game even launches then you can just say "FUCK IT" and release your game on Xbox 360. Limited if not non-existant pirac, easy money, faithfull fanbase.

Pros: everything.
Cons: none.

You're joking right? Xbox 360 piracy is the most prevalent so far in the industry. It's ridiculously easy to get a working pre-modded x360 anywhere. For games, hell, there are a ton of torrent sites.

Honestly, they should just lower prices enough so that people wouldn't mind purchasing them. There's nothing that pisses off gamers more than when they buy a new 50$ game that sucks and/or needs a billion updates and patches before things run properly.

Additionally, I don't know where these stupid companies are getting the idea that piracy is reducing sales because it's obvious those pirates wouldn't have gotten the games in the first place.
 

Zer0

Banned
Kabouter said:
I really don't see a reason why the government wouldn't be able to track people downloading illegal software when they mandate the ISP's to log all internet activity and store that info for several months.

woah man,that its ten times more dangerous than piracy
 

WinFonda

Member
Online verification. Even for single player games.

Putting a game on a console doesn't really improve the situation on the PC, so I'm not sure why you'd suggest that.
 
1) Secure Gaming: also known as on-line authentication. IMO it is the best and most warez-proof system out there. Before installing a new bought game the user has to validate his copy on developer's servers. After installation every time the game is ran it also checked against the server key. You cannot install or run this game without an active internet connection. Single player and multi player modes use the same authetntication system. You won't be even able to benchmark a timedemo without authenticating.

Pros: secure. Hard to crack. Pirates would have to fool the authentication process somehow by routing it to some fake servers or bypass it altogether. So far it's the best protection in PC gaming world.

Cons: no online - no play. Cannot play your original game that you bought for $50 because your line is down. Cannot play it on bus, train etc.

This, but authentication takes place every two-weeks or month. If authenitcation is not met, the game engages a gameplay timer for 15-30mins which boots the player to desktop at the end of the timer. Once authentication can be reestablished, the timer is removed until next failed authentication.
 

VaLiancY

Member
neight said:
Winning the hearts and minds of people is the only option. I like how the attitude towards warez on neoGAF is wholly negative, on most other forums I'm on people get cutesy about warez or openly admit it and then go on to explain why they feel justified in pirating(artistic quality/overpriced/blah blah blah). I would like to think many people mature past a warez mentality. When I first discovered warez I downloaded like crazy but now I buy what I really like.

I felt the same way. I stop downloading warez a few years back. I thought to myself. How would you feel if you weren't paid for your hard work? Sucks that some companies that made good games aren't in business in the PC industry because of piracy. I probably won't see a Max Payne 3 or another Bloodlines. :(
 

acm2000

Member
lol, online auth is easily cracked, steam is cracked, etc etc etc, you cant stop piracy, they'll always find a way, even before torrents, joe public could easily download a game, so blaming that wont help either

ever changing pc hardware/software, also has its part to play in the lack of sales, theres so many factors against pc gaming, it will always be an uphill struggle
 

zoku88

Member
Pharmacy said:
- Reduce the price of the hardware
PC hardware is pretty cheap nowadays. Remember how much it would cost to get a computer for work 10 years ago? :lol

EDIT:

Davidion said:
Flood the pirate distribution channels with fake files.

I wonder if that would

a) Work

and b)

Be legal.

I wouldn't exactly be opposed to that idea >.> :lol :lol :lol
 

Truespeed

Member
Secure authentication or Steam does not work and will never work. There are only two options:

1) This only applies to online multi-player games. Black list keys used in multiple geographical simultaneously. Do not distribute server hosting applications to the public. Ensure the online key matches the key in your DB instead of relying on a mathematical algorithm.

2) Place a sticker on the case indicating that Borys will personally find and bitch slap you if you pirate this game.
 

miyuru

Member
Yeah I don't advocate this sort of piracy...let me elaborate.

If you look at a site like what.cd or OiNK, back in those days it was cool to pirate music because the common consensus was, if you like what you hear, you should buy it. On what.cd recently, there were several albums that were voluntarily uploaded by the artists themselves. As a thank you, what.cd put those albums on freeleech, thus granting the artist even more exposure. As well, a link for donations was set up too (by the artist). All-in-all, I'm cool with that sorta piracy.

But I don't pirate games, I rather just buy them off Steam (for the convenience if at all anything else). And if they're putting devs out of business, I will definitely buy them legitimately. Pirates who pirate just for the sake of rebellion and saying 'down with the man' within the gaming industry are idiots IMO and don't really understand how things work...
 

Coverly

Member
Borys said:
1) Secure Gaming: also known as on-line authentication. IMO it is the best and most warez-proof system out there. Before installing a new bought game the user has to validate his copy on developer's servers. After installation every time the game is ran it also checked against the server key. You cannot install or run this game without an active internet connection. Single player and multi player modes use the same authetntication system. You won't be even able to benchmark a timedemo without authenticating.

Pros: secure. Hard to crack. Pirates would have to fool the authentication process somehow by routing it to some fake servers or bypass it altogether. So far it's the best protection in PC gaming world.

Cons: no online - no play. Cannot play your original game that you bought for $50 because your line is down. Cannot play it on bus, train etc.

This is the best solution for hardcore games. The people that you miss playing your game because they have an awesome rig but no online(does that even exist?) will be a lot less than the people you miss because they pirated your game. MMOs can survive using online only models, I don't see why single player games can't either.

For the casual games aimed at non-gamers and teens/kids, let them use non online solutions because that audience has a higher percentage of not being online.
 

Firestorm

Member
Borys said:
Yet for every PC game released there is probably about 10 times more people playing the pirated version than original one. With the same bugs, driver management, installation problems etc.

They're willing to deal with it since it's free. They wouldn't deal with it for $50.
 
i would suggest activation over internet or you need to be connected with a server whose checking your key permanently. that should work, or at least that would make it more difficult to play pirated games ;)
 

Kabouter

Member
Zer0 said:
woah man,that its ten times more dangerous than piracy
You don't have to tell me, privacy is under siege in this country. Either way, the fact of the matter is that the Dutch government, and I'm sure most other Western governments, clearly have the means to fight piracy very effectively (If only for the reason that convicting relatively few people will have a huge deterring effect). For some reason though, they don't do so.
 

Aeris130

Member
Truespeed said:
Secure authentication or Steam does not work and will never work. There are only two options:

1) This only applies to online multi-player games. Black list keys used in multiple geographical simultaneously. Do not distribute server hosting applications to the public. Ensure the online key matches key in your DB instead of relying on a mathematical algorithm.

Wouldn't that really suck for the guy who payed for the key? Or is it impossible to recreate "commercial" keys with generators?
 

saelz8

Member
cjelly said:
What? You asked for numbers. It isn't hard to find out how many times something has been downloaded.
Ah, here I am thinking concurrent.

I guess you know what you're doing.
 

Zer0

Banned
NDS or console piracy is way easy than pc one,i dont know why pc developers think console piracy is nonexistant
 
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