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Unraveling Braid

FartOfWar

Banned
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8837234&publicUserId=4551247

Iterative reasoning allows both Tim the character and Braid the game to test outcomes and tap unfulfilled potential. He creates doppelgangers by moving backwards in time; Braid itself is a doppelganger, a thing from an alternate time-line in which videogames attempt to tackle life instead of looking like it; to take their place alongside other artistic mediums rather than tagging along.
 
Well done.

The game really lends itself to that kind of thought and consideration. For me, I was most impressed by World 5
as an examination of marriage, and how that extended to the gameplay and how the ring impacted the space around it.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Well done.

The game really lends itself to that kind of thought and consideration. For me, I was most impressed by World 5
as an examination of marriage, and how that extended to the gameplay and how the ring impacted the space around it.

I think you mean world 6 right?

Interesting read. I thought braid was a very well made and unique game. I agree that it didn't really evoke emotions like some reviewers. Games like ICO, SoTC, and even to the melodramic ie: MGS4 impacted me more from that standpoint. But i did like the fact the gameplay, the paintings, the books, the time mechanics were all pieces to a puzzle that the player is challenged to put together. And that there isn't a clearcut "story" i think is really cool
 
ProTip: Rewinding the game for ten minutes in World Two regresses Braid into a prototype. Rewinding for ten more minutes produces the game's original design document.

That is SO FUCKING RAD.

I really need to buy this
 
RiskyChris said:
Can we get a filter that replaces fuck with BRAID?
BIOSHOCK

actually, to the admins, do this. at least for a few days.


Oh, and someone try the whole X-button thing with World 2. Tape down the X button or something.
 
RiskyChris said:
Addt'ally, wait, what?

Edit: I'm trying to get 90+ rep with all my friends in GTA4 right now, after Roman I'm trying this 10 minute world 2 shit.

I'm typing with one hand and rewinding with the other.
 
I can't wait to see 50 posts of "I've been holding the X button down for 20 minutes and nothing happened!"

Shawn is probably laughing as we speak.
 
Sean said:
I can't wait to see 50 posts of "I've been holding the X button down for 20 minutes and nothing happened!"

Shawn is probably laughing as we speak.

I'll be laughing... oh yes.


... oh yes!

:/

i love u braid
 
Linkzg said:
The one thing I am wondering is if Shawn enjoyed the game or not. I didn't get any signs of like or dislike from that blog.

I think you'll have to wait for GFW for that. Shawn tends to use his blog for more analytical articles about game themes, messages, etc
 
Gary Whitta said:
Normally I'd ask why this couldn't have just been posted in the official thread but IMO the more Braid threads the better :)

Shawn Vs Gary

FIGHT!


:D

I was thinking the same thing myself
 
Amir0x said:
damn it sounded like the sort of creative thing that might be true with this game.

*mumbles*

I've already "wasted" hours on this game, I'm sure putting a rubber band on my X button for 20 minutes isn't that big of a deal.

By the way, I've put at least 15 hours of idle time into my 360 just to get some Wartech achievements.
 
Reading analysis of Braid is a lot like Braid's storytelling. At it's worst it feels pretentious, short-sighted, and completely fucking boring; which we see with on-screen text boxes. At it's best it's pretty insightful and offers up an interesting view on how you approach all games.

I would argue that what Braid does to counteract the non-interactive presentation of most other modern games is minimal at best. Braid still has blocks of story that force you to sit staring at the screen, and what makes it interesting is how it changes after you've completed it. I'm not sure that's something exclusive to the majority of Braid's presentation through text. Any medium can have a story with a twist that impacts the way the entire story is viewed with a more complete knowledge.

I think the story of Braid's biggest strength is it's ambiguous nature. The story doesn't feel the need to "tie up every loose end", and the open nature provokes discussion rather than evaluation. It doesn't matter if Braid's story is good or bad because it's another part of the game that really makes you think.

I completely agree with you that a game story can just be the experience the player has and creates, but I don't think Braid is an exception to this rule. The story presentation is dull in presentation and content for almost the entire game. Blow still found the need to present information via text popping up in your face, and I'm not sure how this game gets away with that for you when you blast JRPGs(with good reason) on GFW Radio.

Games have been unsuccessful in what is essential to story-telling: human interaction. The only game I feel that's seen a push in the right direction was Psychonauts, where the environments that you explored gave you more insight to the characters they belonged to. Until the interaction with AI delves beyond choosing selected looping responses and killing them video games will continue to fail delivering substantial bits of story throughout the game. Braid's ending is an interesting counter to that idea, but it doesn't change the traditional video game story-telling nature the game features prior to it.
 
Linkzg said:
The one thing I am wondering is if Shawn enjoyed the game or not. I didn't get any signs of like or dislike from that blog.

I think he enjoyed it, but didn't feel he needed to explicitly say so in his blog. Shawn seems to be the kind of person who thinks that just liking a game isn't always the important thing, but what you take from it.
 
Gary Whitta said:
Normally I'd ask why this couldn't have just been posted in the official thread...

Quiet you.

Beats the hell out of that industry luminaries thread you made begging people to ask Dave Perry questions. Dave Perry? Really??? :lol
 
I didn't know which thread to post this in but it feels like something that should go in an 'unravelling' thread. I just read a really really interesting post on rllmukforum from someone that believes that Braid's story is a metaphor for
the discovery of the atomic bomb

Check it out, it's completely different from every other interpretation I've read and is much more credible than you would first think

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136
 
Majora said:
I didn't know which thread to post this in but it feels like something that should go in an 'unravelling' thread. I just read a really really interesting post on rllmukforum from someone that believes that Braid's story is a metaphor for
the discovery of the atomic bomb

Check it out, it's completely different from every other interpretation I've read and is much more credible than you would first think

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136

Now we are all sons of bitches.
 
Majora said:
I didn't know which thread to post this in but it feels like something that should go in an 'unravelling' thread. I just read a really really interesting post on rllmukforum from someone that believes that Braid's story is a metaphor for
the discovery of the atomic bomb

Check it out, it's completely different from every other interpretation I've read and is much more credible than you would first think

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136

I've taken the liberty of copying the theory that lewismistreated posted on that forum so that people can just look at it here instead of going there. Quotations from the game are underlined.

lewismistreated said:
Apologies for making a new thread, but I didn't think all of this could be spoiler boxed, and there are people in the Braid thread who might not want to read some things. But me and a friend have noticed a few things about Braid, and thought they were interesting enough to share.

Wankhat disclaimer: Braid is a game that involves climbing ladders and picking up keys. However, it also has a plot, and you could quite easily complete the game without ever really coming across half of it.

This is that half.

(All of this is the work of both lewismistreated and a guy called razedinwhite.)



Braid is a story that focuses on the development and deployment of the atomic bomb, and the irreversible impact it had on all human conflicts thereafter. At the very same time, it deals with the very human story of a relationship breaking down due to one personÂ’s obsessive need to control this power. Finally, at certain points, the perspective of the bomb creator as a child comes through.

No, seriously.

The main source for all of this comes straight from the passages of the texts found in the epilogue screens, all of which are laid out openly below. Each screen has an alternative passage laid out, which only appears once Tim is located behind an object in the foreground. The italicised text is the alternative.

----------
The boy called for the girl to follow him, and he took her hand. He would protect her; they would make their way through this oppressive castle, fighting off the creatures made of smoke and doubt, escaping to a life of freedom,

The boy wanted to protect the girl. He held her hand, or put his arm around her shoulders in a walking embrace, to help her feel supported and close to him amid the impersonal throngs of Manhattan. They turned and made their way toward the Canal St. subway station, and he picked a path through the jostling crowd.

His arm weighed upon her shoulders, felt constrictive around her neck. “You’re burdening me with your ridiculous need,” she said. Or, she said: “You’re going the wrong way and you’re pulling me with you.” In another time, another place, she said: “Stop yanking on my arm; you’re hurting me!”
-----

IÂ’m coming back to this one in a second. For now, take note of the location (Manhattan), and the somewhat schizophrenic splitting of events hinted in the alt text. Three women are shown speaking; the first being the spurned partner, the second being that of the bomb, the third being that of the mother of a persistent child.

----
He worked his ruler and his compass. He inferred. He deduced. He scrutinized the fall of an apple, the twisting of metal orbs hanging from a thread. He was searching for the Princess, and he would not stop until he found her, for he was hungry. He cut rats into pieces to examine their brains, implanted tungsten posts into the skulls of water-starved monkeys.

Ghostly, she stood in front of him and looked into his eyes. “I am here,” she said. “I am here. I want to touch you.” She pleaded: “Look at me! But he would not see her; he only knew hot to look at the outside of things.
Again; I want to come back after the big reveal. But the search for the ‘Princess’ is important, and the description of a man obsessed with observing, with deducing but never really knowing.

---
He scrutinized the fall of an apple, the twisting of metal orbs hanging from a thread. Through these clues he would find the Princess, see her face. After an especially fervent night of tinkering, he kneeled behind a bunker in the desert; he held a piece of welderÂ’s glass up to his eyes and waited.
The desert unarguably being that of New Mexico; the bunker, the safe observation point for one of the single most important landmarks in the pursuit of scientific knowledge.
On that moment hung eternity. Time stood still. Space contracted to a pinpoint. It was as though the earth had opened and the skies split. One felt as though he had been privileged to witness the Birth of the WorldÂ…[1]
The above paragraph is a direct quotation (hence the footnote) from Robert Jay LiftonÂ’s The Broken Connection, of which you can read some of right here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=WPiLtmZrG...esult#PPA371,M1

He describes in painful detail the explosion of the nuclear bomb, the first cry of a newborn world. Robert Jay Lifton himself was a psychologist, notable for his work around the effects on war and genocide on the human condition.
Someone near him said: “It worked.”

Someone else said: “Now we are all sons of bitches.”
The famous words of Kenneth Tompkins Bainbridge, uttered directly after the successful detonation of the first nuclear bomb, the “Trinity Test.”
She stood tall and majestic. She radiated fury. She shouted: “Who has disturbed me?” But then, anger expelled, she felt the sadness beneath; she let her breath fall softly, like a sigh, like ashes floating gently on the wind.

She couldnÂ’t understand why he chose to flirt so closely with the death of the world.
The alternative text, written from the viewpoint of the bomb itself. The direct aftermath of the explosion, the fallout, and a failure to understand why anyone would want to bring such a thing into the world.
The candy store. Everything he wanted was on the opposite side of that pane of glass. The store was decorated in bright colours, and the scents wafting out drove him crazy. He tried to rush for the door, or just get closer to the glass, but he couldnÂ’t. She held him back with great strength. Why would she hold him back? How might he break free of her grasp? He considered violence.

They had been here before on their daily walks. She didnÂ’t mind his screams and his shrieks, or the way he yanked painfully on her braid to make her stop. He was too little to know better.

She picked him up and hugged him: “No, baby”, she said. He was shaking. She followed his gaze toward the treats sitting on pillows behind the glass: the chocolate bar and the magnetic monopole, the It-From-Bit and the Ethical Calculus; and so many other things, deeper inside. “Maybe when you’re older, baby,” she whispered, setting him back on his feet and leading him home, “Maybe when you’re older.”

Every day thereafter, as before, she always walked him on a route that passed in front of a candy store.
John WheelerÂ’s It-From-Bit theory describes that "... every it--every particle, every field of force, even the spacetime continuum itself- derives its function, its meaning, its very existence entirely--even if in some contexts indirectly--from the apparatus-elicited answers to yes-or-no questions, binary choices, _bits_."

(If we were being really analytical, Quantum theory also has things to say around (at a base level) multiple worlds existing at the same time, in alternative states.)

The Ethical Calculus “refers to any method of determining a course of action in a circumstance that is not explicitly evaluated in one's ethical code.” Not too much of a leap to state that the deployment of nuclear technology at the end of World War II was one of the biggest ethical dilemmas encountered by mankind.

The Princess is the bomb, and we are being told the story of a man so focused on the development and harnessing of an immensely destructive power that it inevitably falls out of his hands, and into the wider world. One of the pre-word books reads;

"This improvement, day by day, takes him ever-closer to finding the Princess. if she exists - she must! - she will transform him, and everyone."

It is, simultaneously, the story of a relationship so burdened by a man’s obsessive, inquisitive nature that the search for his ‘Princess’, his power is the one thing that drives them apart. More;

"Through all the nights that followed, she still loved him as though he had stayed, to comfort her and protect her, Princess be damned."

The hub, the city burst into flame at the title sequence as the brightest of lights burns in the background, could easily be seen to be Manhattan.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1994/cam0656ha0.th.jpg

Again, mentioned in the epilogue texts, and quite significantly, the placing of two very distinctive towers in the background of the attic screen.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2132/cam0659ep8.th.jpg

One of the paintings also shows a World War II era poster on the side of a building located on a busy U.S. street, as a young man stares mournfully into flame.

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4327/cam0658gj8.th.jpg

The Princess, somehow harnessed and shackled, looms ominously in the sky, overshadowing everyone and everything with a threat, a power that canÂ’t be taken back. CanÂ’t be reversed.

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/7671/cam0657yr0.th.jpg

Stolen from another forum; the flags at the end of each world are nautical flags.

World 2: N
World 3: U
World 4: L
World 5: X
World 6: K

N: No
U: You are (standing into/approaching) danger
L: Stop instantly
X: Stop carrying out your intentions
K: You should stop, I have something important to communicate

The warnings directed towards a man intent on bringing an indescribable power into being.

Think about the ending. A purging wall of flame chases Tim and the princess, all the way up to the point of Tim is found lurking outside a bedroom window. At this point everything reverses; Tim is now chasing her, not following. She is now trying to trap and block Tim from ever reaching her, not aid his progression. Instead of trying to escape the hands of an aggressive knight, he is now the one figure that takes her away from Tim’s ‘ridiculous need’, his obsession with control.

And the one point that rounds all this off – in the pursuit of the eighth star, Tim finally manages to reach the upper half of the screen, and come into contact with the princess herself. What happens?

She fucking explodes.
 
Majora said:
I didn't know which thread to post this in but it feels like something that should go in an 'unravelling' thread. I just read a really really interesting post on rllmukforum from someone that believes that Braid's story is a metaphor for
the discovery of the atomic bomb

Check it out, it's completely different from every other interpretation I've read and is much more credible than you would first think

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136


That is one heck of a theory, but in all honesty it makes as much sense as any I've seen(if not more really). This one should probably be added to the official thread.
 
Majora said:
I didn't know which thread to post this in but it feels like something that should go in an 'unravelling' thread. I just read a really really interesting post on rllmukforum from someone that believes that Braid's story is a metaphor for
the discovery of the atomic bomb

Check it out, it's completely different from every other interpretation I've read and is much more credible than you would first think

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136

That was the best write up of this game I have seen yet.
 
I know that your praise was not overly exuberant. I also know that you think that the highest convergence of play and "narrative" (in the loosest sense) is when both are in service to each other. So, a question: is player-action-as-metaphor (as in Braid or Bioshock) preferable to play-acting situations imbued with meaning?

Example: Andrei Tarkovskii was going to make a sequel to "Stalker" where the Stalker turns authoritarian and forces people through the Zone to make their innermost wish. It was essentially going to be a science-fiction, twilight-of-the-U.S.S.R. "The Grand Inquisitor," which might have been 1 of the greatest movies ever. I thought that controlling Stalker as a 3rd person shooter would have made for an amazing game. All player interaction, however, would be straightforward. Is Braid an inherently superior idea because its GAMEPLAY also functions as a metaphor?

I say that is actually inferior, because the interaction between static art and user is a hallmark of the postmodern movement. A sonnet focuses the reader (similar to a gameplay genre) while letting the poet do the communicating, and so on. A postmodern poem, however, may lack punctuation and be percussive to purposely exhaust the reader or may have strange spacing for a joke, anticipating how the reader will scan instead of just letting the joke fly. There may be a twist where the character in the poem is supposedly the one writing it. I find it interesting that you mentioned Pavic's obviously postmodern book in your praise.

First, if all gameplay functions as a metaphor, isn't it knowingly commenting on the player? If it only acts as commentary on established genre staples (Braid taking mid-2000's Prince Of Persia and Wonder Boy gameplay and imbuing the action with meaning), does it have anything to say to people who don't know the winks and symbols? Isn't in alienating instead of inclusive or challenging? If I placed something Spore-like in a Christian universe and made a universe that failed and dealt with the theological consequences as a way of illustrating Jehovah's love for man in the world that actually exists, am I really making that my message or am I preening, proud that I stapled "thought" onto a create-a-player? Will my mom understand this?

Also, can you hold the gameplay to the same standard that you hold static events? If I rewind a lot during the game, is my Tim a worse person than others? If I take 20 hours to finish the game, is my Tim sadder or a worse person than your Tim, since he spent longer in the emotional wilderness, tracing his mistakes? If these things change, does the meaning break? Could it?

Furthermore, postmodernity is acceptable because we HAD a modernity and eras before that, too. Video games, however, are the first art form to be produced in the postmodern age. It has nothing to which it can react, can post-. Is the intellectual answer that you're looking for gameplay metaphors, a distinctly postmodern notion, or putting adventure games, shoot-'em-ups, and tactical roleplaying games in intelligent universes, a fundamentally sincere act? I say give me Dante's Comedy over Ginsberg's Howl any day.

Alternately, are you simply stating that games are starting over but on a higher plane; simple, less coherent games must be made before complex ones?

(Edit: I used to have something pretentious about Derrida right here, but I deleted it.)
 
FatalT said:
I've taken the liberty of copying the theory that lewismistreated posted on that forum so that people can just look at it here instead of going there. Quotations from the game are underlined.

GAME INTERPRETATION SPOILERS

IF YOU HAVE ANY DESIRE TO PLAY THROUGH BRAID AND DISCOVER THE HIDDEN STORY SEGMENTS ON YOUR OWN, THEN SCROLL REALLY FAST OR SOMETHING

How about just putting the whole thing in spoiler tags so nobody accidentally spoils something if they start from the last new post and scroll up?
 
voltron said:
So is the design doc thing true or not?

Crossposting from the main Braid thread:

Kulock said:
I did it in 2-1 (first a few minutes on 8x, then switched to the normal after a few mis-starts and did over 10 minutes). Wish I'd known it was Shawn Elliot who said it in the first place.
 
gketter said:
I think you mean world 6 right?

Interesting read. I thought braid was a very well made and unique game. I agree that it didn't really evoke emotions like some reviewers. Games like ICO, SoTC, and even to the melodramic ie: MGS4 impacted me more from that standpoint. But i did like the fact the gameplay, the paintings, the books, the time mechanics were all pieces to a puzzle that the player is challenged to put together. And that there isn't a clearcut "story" i think is really cool

Yeah, World 6. My bad.
 
voltron said:
Who, Shawn?

No, this:

I didn't know which thread to post this in but it feels like something that should go in an 'unravelling' thread. I just read a really really interesting post on rllmukforum from someone that believes that Braid's story is a metaphor for the discovery of the atomic bomb.

Check it out, it's completely different from every other interpretation I've read and is much more credible than you would first think.

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136

I had been searching for post-epilogue discoveries and answers, and that interpretation of the story satiates my want for explanation the most of anything I've read so far. To be fair, I would have absolutely no idea if there were inaccuracies in that explanation or not. I would love someone who does to let me know how accurate that is. Shawn Elliott, you're deeply knowledged in War history, right? How credible?
 
Normally I'd dismiss something like the
nuke
theory as over-the-top speculation, but the fact that the text in Braid does quote (or nearly so) so many primary sources related to the subject lends the idea substantial weight. I think they may have it figured out.
 
And Shawn, I thought that my response was good enough to watch for one in turn. If you aren't responding, could you send me a p.m. so I can not watch for a rebuttal?
 
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