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Blackace · Oct 3, 2008

As some of you might know I bounce at hip-hop clubs in Japan as a part time gig.

But now I might have the chance to move from bouncing to DJing. My friend, who is the owner of a club here used to DJ and told me out of the blue I might have a good sense for it. So tonight I DJed for the first time, pretty much during the dead time, but I did alright. Since I am using CD tables (yeah I know but hey it works for me since I don't have to invest in much more than I normally do per month) he told me when I make DJing CDs I should do them in order by BPM.

Soooooo my question is: is there any software (hopefully free software) that can tell me the music's BPM and I would also like to label my cds with the songs and artist so it shows up on the tables.

It is an odd situation to be so unprepared for this but he wants me to do some more DJing next week. Mostly because I play different music than the normal set of Djs who seem stuck in the "Japanese" DJing mode of South South and Kayne West.. :lol

speedpop · Oct 3, 2008

I'd try and give you some advice but my DJ mate is passed out from too many drinks, so I can't really ask him. I think he does both vinyl and CDs depending on the occasion.

joelseph · Oct 3, 2008

Blackace said:
(yeah I know but hey it works for me since I don't have to invest in much more than I normally do per month)

CD Decks are standard now, they do not carry any bad connotations anymore.

To answer your question, some CD decks and some mixers will show the songs BPM. It is better to develop your ear on your own though.

Something you might want to do to start learning is use a program like Ableton Live to plan out and beatmatch your set before you spin live.

Blackace · Oct 3, 2008

joelseph said:
CD Decks are standard now, they do not carry any bad connotations anymore.

To answer your question, some CD decks and some mixers will show the songs BPM. It is better to develop your ear on your own though.

The deck shows it. But I have some many CDs I would like to just burn like 20 cds or so. And do it by BPM so I can do stuff on the fly when I have to.

shuri · Oct 3, 2008

Software bmp counters don't play too well with hiphop tracks.

I use denon's dj music manager to classify all my tracks for my dn-hs5500's
http://www.denondjforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=10952

it's a freeware, but as I said, It 'ok' with hiphop tracks.

If you want to learn all the tricks, I recommend Dj Tutor:
http://www.djtutor.com/index.php

This man is a saint and he's explaining everything on youtube. He has more than 1500 videos explaining everything about being a dj from A to Z, in depth but keeping it simple for the average joe; he does demoes of everything he explains, he's amazing

skynet · Oct 3, 2008

Are you working with MP3s and then burning them off? If so, try MixMeister's BPM Analyzer. It works really well and is FREE. It also saves the BPM to the MP3 meta data.

Get it here: http://www.mixmeister.com/download_freestuff.html (scroll down to bottom)

Not sure of the CD labelling thing - I though most standard (WMP, iTunes) burning software would do this for you?

joelseph · Oct 3, 2008

joelseph said:
Something you might want to do to start learning is use a program like Ableton Live to plan out and beatmatch your set before you spin live.

edited this in

fury · Oct 3, 2008

MixMeister BPM Analyzer is free and pretty accurate.

http://www.mixmeister.com/bpmanalyzer/bpmanalyzer.asp

edit: beaten

Blackace · Oct 3, 2008

skynet said:
Are you working with MP3s and then burning them off? If so, try MixMeister's BPM Analyzer. It works really well and is FREE. It also saves the BPM to the MP3 meta data.

Get it here: http://www.mixmeister.com/download_freestuff.html (scroll down to bottom)

Not sure of the CD labelling thing - I though most standard (WMP, iTunes) burning software would do this for you?

Yeah I have ripped all 1000+ of my CDs a while ago and now I have them sitting on my PC HDD and backedup on my USB HDD so I have have plenty of resources. The few CDs I burned this week from WMP didn't label them..

but I will check this out! It would make arranging them much easier..

Barkley's Justice · Oct 3, 2008

skynet said:
Are you working with MP3s and then burning them off? If so, try MixMeister's BPM Analyzer. It works really well and is FREE. It also saves the BPM to the MP3 meta data.

Get it here: http://www.mixmeister.com/download_freestuff.html (scroll down to bottom)

thats what i use. free and works great.

ten5ive9ine · Oct 3, 2008

Something like Ableton Live is definitely worth playing around in.

Also, if you can, you should spend heaps of time practicing throwing back the record to a specific point of release from up to two rotations away. If you can get that down it makes sampling and mixing way easier.

Blackace · Oct 4, 2008

Barkley's Justice said:
thats what i use. free and works great.

What program do you guys use to burn a mix?

Shaneus · Oct 4, 2008

In all honesty (coming from an electro/house etc. DJ) it's a bad idea to mix tracks solely based on BPM. From what I've learnt, you should concentrate more on the track you'll play next so as to keep the flow of the tracks going smoothly, rather than the speed. There's a fair chance that the difference in BPM won't be noticed *at all* by anyone when you have to pitch up/down for the two tracks to match.

On that note, Mixmeister is definitely the app to use, but you're much better off doing the above and ignoring the BPM (unless there are drastic differences, say, of +/-10 BPM)

YakiSOBA · Oct 4, 2008

Shaneus said:
In all honesty (coming from an electro/house etc. DJ) it's a bad idea to mix tracks solely based on BPM. From what I've learnt, you should concentrate more on the track you'll play next so as to keep the flow of the tracks going smoothly, rather than the speed. There's a fair chance that the difference in BPM won't be noticed *at all* by anyone when you have to pitch up/down for the two tracks to match.

On that note, Mixmeister is definitely the app to use, but you're much better off doing the above and ignoring the BPM (unless there are drastic differences, say, of +/-10 BPM)

I dont know... some of my friends who go over-night clubbing at places like The Guvernment (toronto) tell me the whole night can be thrown off if the DJ screws up even 1 thing... these are crazies who go from like 1am till 9am every.weekend.

ps. marco v this weekend at the guv!!

Blackace · Nov 25, 2008

Quick bump! Been doing it live for a while and am now getting into software DJing. My friend introduced me to a nice program that works really well for hip-hop.

NOWWWW... thinking about buying a laptop.

Don't want to spend too much but figure I need to grab a computer with 4 gbs of ram at least, thinking about getting a Dell Inspiron... any suggestions???

btkadams · Nov 25, 2008

Blackace said:
Quick bump! Been doing it live for a while and am now getting into software DJing. My friend introduced me to a nice program that works really well for hip-hop.

NOWWWW... thinking about buying a laptop.

Don't want to spend too much but figure I need to grab a computer with 4 gbs of ram at least, thinking about getting a Dell Inspiron... any suggestions???

macbook pro. thats my suggestion, even though you said you didn't want to spend much i still recommend it.

bggrthnjsus · Nov 25, 2008

Blackace said:
Quick bump! Been doing it live for a while and am now getting into software DJing. My friend introduced me to a nice program that works really well for hip-hop.

NOWWWW... thinking about buying a laptop.

Don't want to spend too much but figure I need to grab a computer with 4 gbs of ram at least, thinking about getting a Dell Inspiron... any suggestions???

what program are you using that requires 4gbs of ram?
i dj with traktor studio (it works really well live too actually) on a regular macbook with 2gb of ram and i've never had any sort of problems. i don't think that much ram is really necessary unless you're going to be doing something like live sampling in other programs like ableton and such at the same time.

Blackace · Nov 25, 2008

bggrthnjsus said:
what program are you using that requires 4gbs of ram?
i dj with traktor studio (it works really well live too actually) on a regular macbook with 2gb of ram and i've never had any sort of problems. i don't think that much ram is really necessary unless you're going to be doing something like live sampling in other programs like ableton and such at the same time.

I am using virtual DJ mostly. 2 gigs is enough with XP... but most new laptops run Vista..

Sorry not buying a Macbook pro. I want to spend around $500....

Barkley's Justice · Nov 25, 2008

you can buy a macbook on amazon now for ~$950. i'm sure you can get a pc for cheaper.

i use serato. any dual core will run that shit with 2 gigs no problem.

Blackace · Nov 25, 2008

Ok so I'll save the 100 dollars and get a 2 gig!

Fell in love with this program and can't wait to use it live

Fusebox · Nov 25, 2008

Do you use a controller blackace? Even the cheapest USB controller with 2 platters like the BCD3000 makes the whole mixing experience so much more intense and interactive.

You'll also develop a good ear for beatmixing without needing to look at a bpm counter which will give you the skills to drop any tune anytime within reason.

djtiesto · Nov 25, 2008

Blackace said:
Ok so I'll save the 100 dollars and get a 2 gig!

Fell in love with this program and can't wait to use it live

Do you spin hiphop? I haven't really been able to work Virtual DJ with hiphop all too well (I mostly stick to 4x4 beats of course), any advice?

shuri · Nov 25, 2008

Avoid any laptop that can't be downgraded to XP. A lot of external audio cards have very random performances under vista for no reasons at all. There are tons of voodoo tricks out there to try to avoid audio dropouts or skips with external soundcards with traktor, but its just so random and annoying, it's not worth it. It doesnt matter if you are using a laptop built by Jesus, audio skips can and will happen at any random moments.

Try to find a rig that that has driver support for windows XP

Davidion · Nov 25, 2008

shuri said:
Avoid any laptop that can't be downgraded to XP. A lot of external audio cards have very random performances under vista for no reasons at all. There are tons of voodoo tricks out there to try to avoid audio dropouts or skips with external soundcards with traktor, but its just so random and annoying, it's not worth it. It doesnt matter if you are using a laptop built by Jesus, audio skips can and will happen at any random moments.

Try to find a rig that that has driver support for windows XP

Any recs out there? I've been keeping an eye out for a cheapie to run Serato with and everything seems to be running off of vista these days.

Sol.. · Nov 25, 2008

djtiesto said:
Do you spin hiphop? I haven't really been able to work Virtual DJ with hiphop all too well (I mostly stick to 4x4 beats of course), any advice?

I tried spinning hip hop a long time ago...shit is really hard. Mad respect to those who can do it and do it well. I met one dude at a local tower records year ago that was sooo good. I went there just to buy CDs but ended up sitting there for like an hour listening to his fuck around session (he had a gig later that night). He some how mixed a little john beat and vocals from zero 7's destiny. I was like whaaaaaaaa.

Fixed2BeBroken · Nov 25, 2008

Blackace said:
As some of you might know I bounce at hip-hop clubs in Japan as a part time gig.

But now I might have the chance to move from bouncing to DJing. My friend, who is the owner of a club here used to DJ and told me out of the blue I might have a good sense for it. So tonight I DJed for the first time, pretty much during the dead time, but I did alright. Since I am using CD tables (yeah I know but hey it works for me since I don't have to invest in much more than I normally do per month) he told me when I make DJing CDs I should do them in order by BPM.

Soooooo my question is: is there any software (hopefully free software) that can tell me the music's BPM and I would also like to label my cds with the songs and artist so it shows up on the tables.

It is an odd situation to be so unprepared for this but he wants me to do some more DJing next week. Mostly because I play different music than the normal set of Djs who seem stuck in the "Japanese" DJing mode of South South and Kayne West.. :lol

dont know about software, but u can count bpms of any song by counting the beats for 15 seconds, then multiplying it by 4, and u got the bpm. that's how I do it with everything.

old school hiphop producer style.

Fusebox · Nov 25, 2008

Davidion said:
Any recs out there? I've been keeping an eye out for a cheapie to run Serato with and everything seems to be running off of vista these days.

Get the cheapest second hand laptop you can. I ran Serato without a single hitch for about 3 years on a Pentium III, 1ghz laptop with a single USB1.0 port. Serato is the bombproof shit.

I couldn't spin hip-hop any other way than vinyl or a really good CDJ platter, BPMs in the genre are all over the place so I always scratch-drop the majority of a hip-hop set, unlike house its hard to pitch a rap track up or down much without making it sound wrong.

Check the Funkmaster Flex series for tips on mixing hip hop, I stole all my big scratch drops from there.

Davidion · Nov 25, 2008

Fusebox said:
Get the cheapest second hand laptop you can. I ran Serato without a single hitch for about 3 years on a Pentium III, 1ghz laptop with a single USB1.0 port. Serato is the bombproof shit.

I couldn't spin hip-hop any other way than vinyl or a really good CDJ platter, BPMs in the genre are all over the place so I always scratch-drop the majority of a hip-hop set, unlike house its hard to pitch a rap track up or down much without making it sound wrong.

Check the Funkmaster Flex series for tips on mixing hip hop, I stole all my big scratch drops from there.

Cool, thanks for the tip.

Gomu Gomu · Nov 25, 2008

djtiesto · Nov 25, 2008

Fusebox said:
Get the cheapest second hand laptop you can. I ran Serato without a single hitch for about 3 years on a Pentium III, 1ghz laptop with a single USB1.0 port. Serato is the bombproof shit.

I couldn't spin hip-hop any other way than vinyl or a really good CDJ platter, BPMs in the genre are all over the place so I always scratch-drop the majority of a hip-hop set, unlike house its hard to pitch a rap track up or down much without making it sound wrong.

Check the Funkmaster Flex series for tips on mixing hip hop, I stole all my big scratch drops from there.

I've heard some DJs mix hiphop via beatmatching before and it sounded pretty damn decent, I'm one of those people who appreciate good beatmatching (probably due to my proghouse devotion) so it was cool to hear. I always get asked to play hiphop at house parties, I mostly fuck around with screwing and chopping it by slowing down the BPM and using the stutter/backspin effects on Virtual DJ :lol

Fusebox · Nov 25, 2008

I usually hear 50/50 in the few hip-hip mixes I've got but admittedly I only buy mixes to hear turntablists at work, not hip hop music. Was that entire set you heard beatmixed?

shuri · Nov 25, 2008

I can't really mix hiphop at all without resorting to *scratchscratchscratch* fade into other track*.. I need to study on this. I need to check out that funkmaster stuff.

Also if you wanna learn all the tricks and tons of interesting theory in video format, check out djtutor.com, the section by Dj Tutor (Jonathan) is INCREDIBLY interesting and that how I learned everything. I already pimped him out in another thread, but that dude is awesome at explaining everything.

He even has videos about electricity theory for lights and all that. He's that good. He mostly covers dance/house/etc stuff, but he has a few things about hiphop and reggae

joelseph · Nov 25, 2008

djtiesto said:
I've heard some DJs mix hiphop via beatmatching before and it sounded pretty damn decent, I'm one of those people who appreciate good beatmatching (probably due to my proghouse devotion) so it was cool to hear. I always get asked to play hiphop at house parties, I mostly fuck around with screwing and chopping it by slowing down the BPM and using the stutter/backspin effects on Virtual DJ :lol

Yeah, it is easiest to mark and stretch the hiphop tracks before the show and stay away from long fades unless you are good. =)

Blackace · Nov 25, 2008

djtiesto said:
Do you spin hiphop? I haven't really been able to work Virtual DJ with hiphop all too well (I mostly stick to 4x4 beats of course), any advice?

Where do you seem to be having problems?

We should make a "DJ mix thread" where we can share our mixes.

I find the program works really well with loops. I usually loop one song and insert it into the background of a song or on the tailend of a song..

joelseph · Nov 25, 2008

Blackace said:
We should make a "DJ mix thread" where we can share our mixes.

One already exists. Buried now though.

Blackace · Nov 26, 2008

Well we can make a new one: Hip-Hop edition.

I don't have anywhere to upload tho so that might be a problem..

Fusebox · Nov 26, 2008

As much as I embrace digital technology, I have to be honest here and admit that non-live mixing, ie this whole sitting down with mixmeister and pasting some tracks together at your own leisure is not something I consider as DJing. DJing is spontaneous, it's about reading the crowd, diggin out the right track you hunted down, teasin the intro and then blowing the roof off with the drop.

Prewarping your tracks into Ableton or constructing mixes in non-realtime in Mixmeister is a great way to get a smooth sounding mix, but people who do it should refer to themselves as 'sequencers' or 'mix arrangers', DJing is another ballgame altogether and they shouldn't be blurred together imo.

Blackace · Nov 26, 2008

Fusebox said:
As much as I embrace digital technology, I have to be honest here and admit that non-live mixing, ie this whole sitting down with mixmeister and pasting some tracks together at your own leisure is not something I consider as DJing. DJing is spontaneous, it's about reading the crowd, diggin out the right track you hunted down, teasin the intro and then blowing the roof off with the drop.

Prewarping your tracks into Ableton or constructing mixes in non-realtime in Mixmeister is a great way to get a smooth sounding mix, but people who do it should refer to themselves as 'sequencers' or 'mix arrangers', DJing is another ballgame altogether and they shouldn't be blurred together imo.

I DJ live now and just fell into working on the cpu at home, but I would like to be able to use some of my mixes live as well. Because you can make some songs blend together in a way that is really hard to do on the fly with the PC and if you use both you can really bring it.

btkadams · Nov 26, 2008

Fusebox said:
As much as I embrace digital technology, I have to be honest here and admit that non-live mixing, ie this whole sitting down with mixmeister and pasting some tracks together at your own leisure is not something I consider as DJing. DJing is spontaneous, it's about reading the crowd, diggin out the right track you hunted down, teasin the intro and then blowing the roof off with the drop.

Prewarping your tracks into Ableton or constructing mixes in non-realtime in Mixmeister is a great way to get a smooth sounding mix, but people who do it should refer to themselves as 'sequencers' or 'mix arrangers', DJing is another ballgame altogether and they shouldn't be blurred together imo.

shhhhhhhhh don't crush peoples dreams

Fusebox · Nov 26, 2008

Blackace said:
Because you can make some songs blend together in a way that is really hard to do on the fly with the PC

I can't think of any examples of this, what is your idea of on-the-fly with regards to a PC? Do you mean using a USB controller with platters like I mentioned earlier?

btkadams · Nov 26, 2008

Blackace said:
Because you can make some songs blend together with the PC in a way that is really hard to do on the fly and if you use both you can really bring it.

fixed for fusebox

Blackace · Nov 26, 2008

Fusebox said:
I can't think of any examples of this, what is your idea of on-the-fly with regards to a PC? Do you mean using a USB controller with platters like I mentioned earlier?

I only use CD platters right now at my night job. We have 3. Once I get my laptop I will hook into the mixer and have my PC plus 2 platters.

Besides the point is to make people dance and have a good time. I have seen people kill on the PC without platters and I have seen people kill on the PC with platters.

I just have a few mixes that I want to play that take some timing to setup and is much easier to do on the PC than with CDs for me.

Fusebox · Nov 26, 2008

I can't think of an examples that fit either way btk unless you're adding in a 3rd track, but if we're talking about stupidly long, tightly locked layering and mixing frequencies in and out with the eq's while stroking the filters with your balls.... easily doable on a regular setup but you have to put the hard yards in and you have to learn to DJ properly first.

Blackace said:
I just have a few mixes that I want to play that take some timing to setup and is much easier to do on the PC than with CDs for me.

Fair enough, probably a good way to take the stress of out live mixing for beginners but eventually you'll get your chops up and you'll want to put it all together 100% live and unprepared based on the crowd feedback.

Blackace · Nov 26, 2008

Fusebox said:
I can't think of an examples that fit either way btk unless you're adding in a 3rd track, but if we're talking about stupidly long, tightly locked layering and mixing frequencies in and out with the eq's while stroking the filters with your balls.... easily doable on a regular setup but you have to put the hard yards in and you have to learn to DJ properly first.

Sure it can be done, but there is a faster easier way to do it now. Plus I don't need to bring all my CDs. And I don't really need to prove I am DJ to anyone. I get pay to spin and that is good enough for me.

Blackace · Nov 26, 2008

Fusebox said:
Fair enough, probably a good way to take the stress of out live mixing for beginners but eventually you'll get your chops up and you'll want to put it all together 100% live and unprepared based on the crowd feedback.

Most DJs have sets based on what is hot now and what was hot just a bit ago. So I have made a few mixes which I have done on the CD platters, but man it is nice to have them on the PC.

No reason to knock it, you can add a song on the PC live based on feedback. It is not like PCDJs push play and walk away.

Funny thing is how people were talking this same trash about CDDJs about 5 years ago...

Feel like I am talking to the RZA.. "West Coast ain't real hip-hop... The South can't make real hip-hop"
:lol

Fusebox · Nov 26, 2008

But isn't the logical progression to wanting it fast and easy and not caring about being known as a DJ going to lead to you having the entire mix pre-sequenced and just turning up and hitting play?

I personally think once you get a good taste for beatmixing and dropping tunes on the fly you're going to start leaning more and more toward proper DJing and getting away from the "heres one we prepared for you earlier" cooking show style. A good mix is so intense to hold and cut fade, it's just an addictive sensation imo, goosebumps and all, I love it.

Btw the CDJ argument was never about skill, it was more about vinyl rarity vs mp3 availability. Diggin vs downloading. 1200s/CDJs vs Mixmeister is a debate about skill, but it isn't black and white because the amount of interactivity that people want when they DJ ranges from pressing play and hitting the bar to cutting your own loops from a basic kick and a snare sample.

Blackace · Nov 26, 2008

Fusebox said:
But isn't the logical progression to wanting it fast and easy and not caring about being known as a DJ going to lead to you having the entire mix pre-sequenced and just turning up and hitting play?

I personally think once you get a good taste for beatmixing and dropping tunes on the fly you're going to start leaning more and more toward proper DJing and getting away from the "heres one we prepared for you earlier" cooking show style. A good mix is so intense to hold and cut fade, it's just an addictive sensation imo, goosebumps and all, I love it.

I think you are mistaken about what I am saying...

The program I have works like platters I have been using and still only use since I have no laptop yet. Just I can see the waves and the counts on it. And I can cue easier on the fly.. I could just burn a mix to CD and play it... but I don't do that. You still need to fade songs in and out cue new songs and all that. Just you can sample and save stuff (like lil John saying "running around the motherfuckin club" or what haveyou) It is faster than cuing CDs or records, lighter because you just need the laptop and a small CD book..

But really a person using the PC is not doing anything less than a person using CD platters.

Like I said I have seen people using this program live and have killed it. Fadinig in and out, nothing was preset. Just the idea of what songs they wanted to play next or what songs go well with this song. And all DJs do that; record to PC

Fusebox said:
Btw the CDJ argument was never about skill, it was more about vinyl rarity vs mp3 availability. Diggin vs downloading. 1200s/CDJs vs Mixmeister is a debate about skill, but it isn't black and white because the amount of interactivity that people want when they DJ ranges from pressing play and hitting the bar to cutting your own loops from a basic kick and a snare sample.

You have a selective memory.. because the exact same shit was said "CDJ aren't REAL DJs...." reading RPMs is way harder on records than CDs, also CDs cue much easier and can be looped on most decks.

Nobody presses play and walks away. Get off your high horse. I said I don't need to prove I am a real DJ by not using something I am excited to use and something I think will bring my DJing up rather than down.

Also for myself, this is a part-time job/hobby I don't feel like investing in platters for the house when I can buy a laptop for 4 bills and be able to practice at home. I take that practice to the platters of course but I can also take what I am getting skilled at using to the club as well..

Fusebox · Nov 26, 2008

Fair enough, I mistook the thread as a request for advice from a beginning DJ and just wanted to let you know that the further you get away from pre-BPM-counted CDs and the closer you get to having the skills to being able to drop any track in any medium over any other track on the fly, the more rewarding, intense and musical the whole process becomes.

I think once you've got your chops up and have a better idea of the manual techniques a technician like Zabiela can do on CDJs you'll cringe at your suggestion that "a person using the PC is not doing anything less than a person using CD platters" but regardless of everything else I just want you to be the best you can be on the decks, peace?

subrock · Nov 26, 2008

Don't listen to the haters, use whatever you like, just a long as I sounds good.
I use serato itch and a vci-300, super reliable and very simple to use (not overladen with features). If you want to build bpms, itch is free for all on serato.com. Itch won't write all the mpx files that mixmiester will pack your harddrive with. If you have a laptop, you should check out traktor, you can run it without a controller and it's native record function will allow you to record a live mix within the software. Good luck with it all

subrock · Nov 26, 2008

Fusebox said:
Fair enough, I mistook the thread as a request for advice from a beginning DJ and just wanted to let you know that the further you get away from pre-BPM-counted CDs and the closer you get to having the skills to being able to drop any track in any medium over any other track on the fly, the more rewarding, intense and musical the whole process becomes.

I think once you've got your chops up and have a better idea of the manual techniques a technician like Zabiela can do on CDJs you'll cringe at your suggestion that "a person using the PC is not doing anything less than a person using CD platters" but regardless of everything else I just want you to be the best you can be on the decks, peace?

I'd much rather here a dj starting out that has some beatmatching skills than someone that is trying to go freeform.
Overarching lesson here: do whatever you like, just make it sound good, I'm sure you have lots of good day to day lessons from your fellow djs at the club

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