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Xbox 360 Dev Kit with 1GB RAM

M

Mr.Potato Head

Banned
I suppose this means this will allow for a bit more headroom in ram usage for retail games..which may help frame rates and visuals for future xbox 360 games... Didnt see it posted so just passing the info along... :D

We received exclusive pictures of an Xbox 360 development kit with 1GB of RAM (as opposed to the 512MB found into retail consoles and dev kits until now). It was already rumoured/announced a while ago that new development kits would get 1GB of RAM to give developers more flexibility and use all the power of retail Xbox360s while still running debug tools. Today we offer you the first pictures of this 'new' device.
While most might expect the extra RAM would just be higher capacity chips on the motherboard, it's not. The extra 512MB comes in the new sidecar. The sidecar is the addon device for dev kits you've probably seen before used for dvd emulation and pix ports.
What you can see on the pictures below is just the 512MB-addon taken from inside the new devkit sidecar and modified/wired to be connected as standalone to a dev kit without the rest of the sidecar.
The dev kit itself is an XNA prototype with jasper-based motherboard and because it has been modified to work with the 512MB-addon without the rest of the sidecar we'll dub it 'Frankie the 1GB XNA' ;)
SOURCE: http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EkuZFyuVFZUPWPEQHY.php

PICTURES:
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/dev-kit-1gb-frank/05_s800.jpg

http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/dev-kit-1gb-frank/08_s800.jpg

http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/dev-kit-1gb-frank/03_s800.jpg

http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/dev-kit-1gb-frank/07_s800.jpg
Click to expand...
 
S

Shurs

Member
Mr.Potato Head said:
I suppose this means this will allow for a bit more headroom in ram usage for retail games..which may help frame rates and visuals for future xbox 360 games... Didnt see it posted so just passing the info along... :D
Click to expand...

I thought this has been known since E3.
 
D

dfyb

Banned
extra ram is for running debug processes etc. means they can squeeze a bit more out of the 512mb ram, but a retail game will never utilize more than 512. isn't this old?
 
T

TTP

Have a fun! Enjoy!
Mr.Potato Head said:
I suppose this means this will allow for a bit more headroom in ram usage for retail games..which may help frame rates and visuals for future xbox 360 games... Didnt see it posted so just passing the info along... :D
Click to expand...

How so?
 
P

Philanthropist

Banned
PS3 devkits always had 1 GB of RAM, but it's always been for development purposes. It has nothing to do with what retail units, current or future, will perform like. This should be the same case.

ACE 1991 said:
I believe 256mb, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

You are wrong.
 
D

DangerousDave

Member
Well, that's good in order to run the games during the development, before the optimization part, and also in order to run in debug (more costly in memory than a release version) in late development process, with all the content implemented.

But does don't help in any way the retail games, and it don't implies better performance in the retail games, only helps the developer in order to debug easily.

It's in a sidecar instead of integred in the motherboard in order to be activated, but also deactivated easily to test in a "real" enviroment.
 
arhra

arhra

Member
CrushDance said:
Erm, don't PS3 dev kits have a similar function?
Click to expand...
Almost all devkits have more RAM than retail consoles. The 360 kits not having more was an oddity.

TTP said:
How so?
Click to expand...
With the 512Mb kits, you need to leave yourself some headroom for debugging tools to run, meaning you can't fully use all the memory in the system (at least, not without making QA absolutely hellish). While a bit of extra memory is unlikely to improve framerates substantially (although it is possible, by switching algorithms/data structures to trade space for time), having more memory to work in (or store textures/etc) is never a bad thing, and could lead to some marginal visual/performance improvements
 
B

bj00rn_

Banned
TTP said:
How so?
Click to expand...

I guess most devs use some of the 360 memory to run debug code and thus now the free memory can be used for the game-resources instead? I think the PS3 devkit have had this option for a while. But I don't really know much about gaming development so take what I write with a grain of salt..
 
T

Triple U

Banned
arhra said:
Almost all devkits have more RAM than retail consoles. The 360 kits not having more was an oddity.


With the 512Mb kits, you need to leave yourself some headroom for debugging tools to run, meaning you can't fully use all the memory in the system (at least, not without making QA absolutely hellish). While a bit of extra memory is unlikely to improve framerates substantially (although it is possible, by switching algorithms/data structures to trade space for time), having more memory to work in (or store textures/etc) is never a bad thing.
Click to expand...

yeah 360 devs should've had at least 1GB since 2005
 
C

Chris R

Member
I never really understood why the 360 and PS3 had so little ram. I mean my computer I built 6+ years ago had 2gb of ram. And with the slow read speeds of DVD/BRD and 5400rpm drives, you would figure they would want more than the little tiny ram they included.

Unless the two consoles work very differently from a regular computer's architecture.
 
D

dfyb

Banned
rhfb said:
I never really understood why the 360 and PS3 had so little ram. I mean my computer I built 6+ years ago had 2gb of ram. And with the slow read speeds of DVD/BRD and 5400rpm drives, you would figure they would want more than the little tiny ram they included.

Unless the two consoles work very differently from a regular computer's architecture.
Click to expand...
because ram is really expensive








.....
 
C

Chinner

Banned
dfyb said:
extra ram is for running debug processes etc. means they can squeeze a bit more out of the 512mb ram, but a retail game will never utilize more than 512. isn't this old?
Click to expand...
yup
 
B

big_z

Member
rhfb said:
I never really understood why the 360 and PS3 had so little ram. I mean my computer I built 6+ years ago had 2gb of ram. And with the slow read speeds of DVD/BRD and 5400rpm drives, you would figure they would want more than the little tiny ram they included.

Unless the two consoles work very differently from a regular computer's architecture.
Click to expand...


at the time they were developed ram wasnt nearly as cheap as it is now. i expect the next gen systems will have tons of ram though... except for wii 2 which will have 256mb
 
D

DangerousDave

Member
rhfb said:
I never really understood why the 360 and PS3 had so little ram. I mean my computer I built 6+ years ago had 2gb of ram. And with the slow read speeds of DVD/BRD and 5400rpm drives, you would figure they would want more than the little tiny ram they included.

Unless the two consoles work very differently from a regular computer's architecture.
Click to expand...

Well, a computer has to manage multitasking, and a OS much heavier than the console ones. If you think that 512 mb of ram is low, think about the 32 mb of the PS2. And in games like GT4 or SoC.
 
T

Triple U

Banned
rhfb said:
I never really understood why the 360 and PS3 had so little ram. I mean my computer I built 6+ years ago had 2gb of ram. And with the slow read speeds of DVD/BRD and 5400rpm drives, you would figure they would want more than the little tiny ram they included.

Unless the two consoles work very differently from a regular computer's architecture.
Click to expand...

I would think that bus speeds make up for this but heck i've never worked on a console
 
G

gregor7777

Banned
dfyb said:
because ram is really expensive

.....
Click to expand...

It's been one of the least expensive components of a PC for some time now.

I know it's not quite the same thing, but memory in gereral has been cheap in a relative sense compared with the situation years ago.

Of course, these systems were designed some years ago so you probably have your explanation right there.
 
T

Triple U

Banned
gregor7777 said:
It's been one of the least expensive components of a PC for some time now.

I know it's not quite the same thing, but memory in gereral has been cheap in a relative sense compared with the situation years ago.

Of course, these systems were designed some years ago so you probably have your explanation right there.
Click to expand...

And plus ps3 is using XDR ran which was brand new back then AFAIK
 
womfalcs3

womfalcs3

Banned
The RAM used in consoles has much larger bandwidth. It's not comparable in price to RAM used in most personal computers.
 
T

The Bookerman

Member
Xbox debug kits used to have 128 megs of ram while the system had 64 mb of RAM.

Before Alpha stages, lots of teams used the 128 megs of RAM, before optimisation.

I don't think this is any different.
 
G

gregor7777

Banned
womfalcs3 said:
The RAM used in consoles has much larger bandwidth. It's not comparable in price to RAM used in most personal computers.
Click to expand...

I understand. But do they really need the high performance memory they're using?

Maybe a dev can answer this: would they rather the higher bandwidth memory used in the consoles but only 512MB, or slower more typical RAM found in mainstream gaming PCs but a larger amount of it.

I'd wager they'd take the larger amount.
 
M

MWS Natural

Member
Unregistered007 said:
so now the 360 version will be superbly superior ?
Click to expand...


Exactly what I was thinking, don't the 360 versions usually have better textures already? I've heard some say high quality textures while others say it's just a color output issue with PS3 and that "washed out" look.
 
T

Triple U

Banned
MWS Natural said:
Exactly what I was thinking, don't the 360 versions usually have better textures already?
Click to expand...

dude this has nothing to do with retail 360s. Yes games will probably look a little better before the 360 dies but it is not because of more ram in the dev kit. Retail units have had virtually the same spec since launch.
 
womfalcs3

womfalcs3

Banned
gregor7777 said:
I understand. But do they really need the high performance memory they're using?

Maybe a dev can answer this: would they rather the higher bandwidth memory used in the consoles but only 512MB, or slower more typical RAM found in mainstream gaming PCs but a larger amount of it.

I'd wager they'd take the larger amount.
Click to expand...

That's a question I would like answered too. I can visualize benefits to both, but I don't know which one would be better.

Obviously the engineers building the hardware think it's better going the high bandwidth route.
 
G

gregor7777

Banned
Dexvex said:
dude this has nothing to do with retail 360s. Yes games will probably look a little better before the 360 dies but it is not because of more ram in the dev kit. Retail units have had virtually the same spec since launch.
Click to expand...

Well, the idea is that debugging code now eats up some of the RAM used when performance testing and whatnot. So now they'll be able to run the debugging code along side the full complement of memory on a retail kit (512).

So when they were testing before you were testing against 512 - whatever the debug code occupied. Maybe it amounted to a small change in IQ to get it running acceptably along side the debugging code. Not sure there, but I assume that's what the idea is.

womfalcs3 said:
That's a question I would like answered too. I can visualize benefits to both, but I don't know which one would be better.

Obviously the engineers building the hardware think it's better going the high bandwidth route.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but that's assuming a lot of things about how the final spec was reached.
 
T

Triple U

Banned
womfalcs3 said:
That's a question I would like answered too. I can visualize benefits to both, but I don't know which one would be better.

Obviously the engineers building the hardware think it's better going the high bandwidth route.
Click to expand...

I would have to agree with them too. There would be too many bottlenecks with a big pool of cheap pc ram.
 
G

gregor7777

Banned
Dexvex said:
I would have to agree with them too. There would be too many bottlenecks with a big pool of cheap pc ram.
Click to expand...

How would it be any different from a PC? Given a large amount of RAM, that is.

EDIT: and of course we're saying you'd need faster vram, and a separate pool of system memory. Obviously the 360 is set up with one big pool right now.

EDIT2 : though I suppose a sufficient amount of faster vram would need to be near to the amount of total memory in the 360 right now, rendering my whole argument moot :lol
 
S

SimpleDesign

Member
gregor7777 said:
So when they were testing before you were testing against 512 - whatever the debug code occupied.
Click to expand...
Taken from a Eurogamer article about Halo 3 ODST.

So, with an engine with so many strengths, what were the elements that perhaps held the developers back and can be addressed in ODST? In many senses, Bungie was tied to the past with its work on the first Xbox. A lot of prototyping for Halo 3 was actually carried out on the older hardware that the devs had mastered so well. For example, the Cortana level started out life on the older Microsoft hardware, where the biological look was first pioneered. Other issues Bungie encountered were rather more bizarre. The original Xbox 360 devkits had exactly the same amount of memory as the retail unit, meaning that the game only had around 335MB of memory for content due to SDK overheads - a deficit of around 50MB. This has been resolved in the new Microsoft kits, and should give Bungie a very useful boost for ODST.
Click to expand...
 
T

Triple U

Banned
gregor7777 said:
Well, the idea is that debugging code now eats up some of the RAM used when performance testing and whatnot. So now they'll be able to run the debugging code along side the full complement of memory on a retail kit (512).

So when they were testing before you were testing against 512 - whatever the debug code occupied. Maybe it amounted to a small change in IQ to get it running acceptably along side the debugging code. Not sure there, but I assume that's what the idea is.



Perhaps, but that's assuming a lot of things about how the final spec was reached.
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure they would have flags to notice the difference between debug and retail and scale accordingly. I mean devs haven't been crying about how hard the 360 is to develop for so it probably hasn't been holding anybody back.

EDIT: ^^^ well maybe it has:lol
 
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