• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Gamasutra - Determined Devoted Wives vs. Rockstar San Diego Management - FIGHT

deadhorse32

Bad Art ™
To whomever it may concern,

In response to the unfortunate circumstances, some wives of Rockstar San Diego employees have collected themselves to assert their concerns and announce a necessary rejoinder, in the form of an immediate action to ameliorate conditions of employees.

The turning for the worse came approximately in the month of March of 2009. Till present, the working conditions persists to deteriorate as employees are manipulated by certain hands that wield the reigns of power in Rockstar San Diego. Furthermore, the extent of degradation employees have suffered extends to their quality of life and their family members. Though it is presumed, this unfortunate circumstance is due largely to ignorance and unawareness of most, with enlightened knowledge, action must be taken to protect the rights of employees and those who depend on them. Realizing that such broad claims could hardly spark any interest to take a stand, a better illustration of the wrongs made unto Rockstar San Diego workers is necessary. Futhermore, the detailed descriptions about to be given can serve as a starting point as it will provide a clearer direction for change.

Initially, as work pressure in the office increases, so do the stress levels of employees. Recently, with the amount of stress that has been built up, there have been physical manifestations caused by stress making health a concern. It is known that some employees have been diagnosed with depression symptoms and at least one among them is acknowledged to have suicidal tendencies. These will not be ameliorated with a full time masseuse and will only worsen if no change to improve conditions take place and managers continue with their dishonesty of deadlines. There are understandably times when crunching in work is needed and extended working time is expected. However; as with all systems known to man, there must always be an effort for balance. Ergo, where there are times of acceleration, there are other times of deceleration in order to recuperate. This is not being practiced though, and instead of valued employees, a sentiment grows that they have lost not only the sense of being valued but turned into machines as they are slowly robbed of their humanity. The managers at Rockstar San Diego continue in their dishonesty, pushing their employees to the brink promising temporariness fully equipped with the knowledge of another deadline just around the corner. The reigns whip again, and it becomes mandatory to work close to twelve hours a day including Saturdays, regardless if an employee has finished all his duties prior. These, yes all these are horrendous, yet what makes it unacceptable has yet to come. The fact that these conditions, the same ones that have been proven time and time again to worsen the mental, physical and emotional parts of employees, are also met with further obstruction of employees rights. That of even any effort to retain any health still owned by the employee by seeking medical attention on a Saturday, because on Sundays most medical offices are closed, they must call in sick. Furthermore, not only is it not received with sympathy and understanding rather the must endure an attitude presented to them that they pose a hindrance! No, such core hours step outside the law and will not be accepted as the norm!

In the last years, there have also been many cuts on benefits despite the increasing demands on employees. After dedicated hard work on a project, weeks of comp time were offered as a reward and illustration of appreciation and understanding. Far from what is currently being met by the employees after nearly a year of constant strenuous activity. Little is there to motivate continuation as they also have lost a free vacation week between Christmas and New Year. Without time to recuperate and no efforts made to alleviate the stress of such conditions would procure on an employee after a period time, serious health concerns. Yet, now the health concern becomes another financial concern as the stripping of medical benefits surfaces to realization. It becomes rather worse rather than better as employees gain experience and become "senior". Instead of appreciation, numerous non-exempt designers and artists have had their overtime pay cut as a result for being "too senior". Looking to upper management provides no comfort rather the contrary. With unsuitable behavior from a newly promoted studio manager that vulgarly speaks the F word in most sentences and those who refuse to look at the workers' faces as they pass in the hall, it is clear their attempt to ignore the injustice they have implemented on their once valued and appreciated employees. Perhaps it should be them who explain to our children and loved ones the absence of their increasingly frustrated fathers.

Yet and still, there is more to be said of the working conditions that Rockstar San Diego employees have had to suffer. While managing to endure through the trying times, they still were hit with more blows. Again balance is denied, as working conditions worsened with no appreciation. Working harder, longer, faster, yet there was never a guarantee of a bonus nor if there was any earned, when they will be received! Moreover, bonuses could significantly be reduced based on ANYTHING management comes up with, while the employee would have no way to know about it. Thus bringing to light, the current Rockstar management has grown a thirst for power as it enables itself to grow in the Rockstar's structure. Besides bonuses, financial appreciation has lacked in other aspects as well. For four consecutive years, salary raises have not adjusted properly to cover inflation. This is especially unjust to those who significantly contribute to projects. Further than unappreciative, employees are disrespected when lied to as a whole on how Rockstar games does not generate money and as claims of justification for unappreciated employees are made pointing to the deficit, meanwhile the last Grand Theft Auto game made over a billion dollars of revenue. “Over a billion dollars of revenue”, so where is the recognition and appreciation to those of whom, without them, such success would not have been made?

Conclusively, if these working conditions stay unchanged in the upcoming weeks, preparation will be made to take legal action against Rockstar San Diego. This is the course that naturally presents itself, as either these conditions were manufactured from unawareness and actions to improve conditions will prove such innocence. Or if no action is seen after this letter, it clear that other aspects are the cause of the deteriorated conditions of Rockstar San Diego employees and must be further addressed. Rest assure, all that is desired is compensation for health, mental, financial, and damages done to families of employees.

With all due respect,

Determined Devoted Wives of Rockstar San Diego employees.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Rock...Diego_employees_have_collected_themselves.php

"Red Dead Redemption" out in April ?
 
wow, good on them for speaking out, I guess? sounds awful.
 
Hope they get something out of it. The day one of the employees goes postal in the offices will be the day Jack Thompson rises from his grave
 
Just read all that and the big post by Code Monkey. Sounds like there is a REAL leadership and direction problem in the studio.

I know RDR will turn out great, but it's sad to hear that so many personal and family lives are really hurting.
 
legend166 said:
Anyway, it sounds horrible. This whole damn industry is just retardedly broken.

In so many ways it's not even funny. I can't see how people can even want to get into the industry.
 
legend166 said:
it sounds horrible. This whole damn industry is just retardedly broken.

Well, this is not really something unique in the real world. I think most of us with a job especially in the upturn market have felt the pressure, and several of my engineering colleagues did severely burn out during the peak. I myself witnessed intelligent and hardworking people crying in their offices last year because they were burnt out by the workload and pressure (They're all now recovered and back in business as usual though). But of course now the pressure is somehow inverted.. With the market crashing and all. Anyway, I'm digressing. Carry on.
 
Games production management needs to grow up. Developers need to be better represented on a union level.

Unpaid overtime, poor working conditions are one of the main reasons why I have no interest in working in the games industry.
bj00rn_ said:
Well, this is not really something unique in the real world. I think most of us with a job especially in the upturn market have felt the pressure, and several of my engineering colleagues did severely burn out during the peak. I myself witnessed intelligent and hardworking people crying in their offices last year because they were burnt out by the workload and pressure (They're all now recovered and back in business as usual though). But of course now the pressure is somehow inverted.. With the market crashing and all. Anyway, I'm digressing. Carry on.
Visual effects industry have similar conditions and work cycles to games. They are still regarded as disposable talent at a junior level (4 years to go from freelance to staffer at one major facility). But you generally get paid for what work you do and get managed better to prevent unreasonable crunch. Where as in games the exact opposite seems commonplace. A note to Relentless Games which claims to have never had to crunch on a game, apparently some days they go home early too. But their games are hardly AAA.

I almost wonder if it would be best to get people from other industrys in. Like Kotick said he got in a load of people from fast food just to get shit done.
 
Fredescu said:
Some good posts in the comments section. I recommend clicking the link.
Defnitely:
... But, perhaps an unsung root of the problems we face is a technical one, where many hours of productivity are wasted by everyone just waiting to get a build of the game that actually runs every time we need to update anything. Without getting too technical, lets just say that most of us are not happy with our build pipeline, ...

What Bitter PartyOfMany says about the "boys in New York" is also spot-on. For years there seemed to be indifference on the part of the big wigs everybody knows are really in charge, and the product never seemed to have true leaders.
It continues, not just bad management it would seem.
 
Visualante said:
Games production management needs to grow up. Developers need to be better represented on a union level.

Unpaid overtime, poor working conditions are one of the main reasons why I have no interest in working in the games industry.

Visual effects industry have similar conditions and work cycles to games. They are still regarded as disposable talent at a junior level (4 years to go from freelance to staffer at one major facility). But you generally get paid for what work you do and get managed better to prevent unreasonable crunch. Where as in games the exact opposite seems commonplace. A note to Relentless Games which claims to have never had to crunch on a game, apparently some days they go home early too. But their games are hardly AAA.

I almost wonder if it would be best to get people from other industrys in. Like Kotick said he got in a load of people from fast food just to get shit done.

Yeah, it sure sounds like there are areas of the industry worse than others.

We also tried to involve students and retired people in our work during the peak last year to do some of the graphical grunt work. But there's only so much they can do, even after extensive training that we completely went away from it in the end. They did a decent job, but it generated a completely new level of feedback noise and questions, so it was just too much...work in the end.
 
Fredescu said:
Some good posts in the comments section. I recommend clicking the link.

Mike Bradley 8 Jan 2010 at 3:05 pm PST
The saddest part of the above is that Red Dead Redemption (the game the entire studio is working on) is an organic disaster of the most epic proportions. The pain just might be worth it for everyone if the work was worldclass and they could proudly place it on their resumes as they walk away from that mess. Sadly, it is anything but, and Bitter is correct* mismanagement up and down the Rockstar chain is the direct cause. Red Dead Revolver 2: Dead On Arrival.

(*Bitter PartyOfMany 8 Jan 2010 at 2:24 pm PST
When you let a team create a game for 2+ years, building technology with little or no feedback, then jump in months before the project is to be shipped and *DEMAND* sweeping changes, you're going to have deadlines slip, unstable fixes, and unhappy workers.)
 
The way we produce games has to change in a huge way. This situation at Rockstar San Diego is not unique in the games industry, or any other industry.

Shareholders pressure upper management, upper management pressures lower management and lower management freak because they can't handle the pressure and treat the core employees like crap. Happens in retail, happens in banking happens in the service industries like gas and electrical companies it happens everywhere.

The manager mentioned in the letter, who uses the F word too much and doesn't look people in the eye, is probably under so much pressure from the higher ups that he feels trapped into doing whatever he has to do to get the work done. Bullying employees into being on perpetual crunch is the only thing he can do to meet his boss' demands. It's a real shame, but as I said, it isn't going to change and it isn't limited to the games industry, workforces of the world need to stand up and fight for their rights. But no one wants to do that, because management will just take the work somewhere else.
 
I was wondering how long it would take for a management type to show up and call the wives crazy. I was not disappointed.

Julius Childs
I've read this kind of super-stereotyped bureaucratese from schizophrenics.
Memo to R* management: remind all your devs that when they're finally allowed to go home next week to make sure their wives are taking their meds.
 
In all seriousness though, the game is secondary. The concern over the well-being of those employees should be the first order of business.

These really sounds like terrible conditions to be working under and both the professional output as well as the personal lives of those involved will suffer as a result. No job is worth ruining your relationship and family over, so I'm in full support of the employees (and their families) here.

It seems like it's the EA disaster all over again.


edit: Gamasutra's comment section is the only comment secton on the internet I do not skip to read. Consistently interesting and awesome contributions, in this case expanding greatly on the matter mentioned in the article.
 
Haunted said:
In all seriousness though, the game is secondary. The concern over the well-being of those employees should be the first order of business.

These really sounds like terrible conditions to be working under and both the professional output as well as the personal lives of those involved will suffer as a result. No job is worth ruining your relationship and family over, so I'm in full support of the employees (and their families) here.


It seems like it's the EA disaster all over again.

Doesn't really surprise me. I honestly just imagine developers as sweatshops now.
 
Reads like it was written by a snobby 19 year old trying to sound sophisticated.

Sounds like a lot of game dev jobs are really crappy.
 
WanderingWind said:
I was wondering how long it would take for a management type to show up and call the wives crazy. I was not disappointed.

Julius Childs
I've read this kind of super-stereotyped bureaucratese from schizophrenics.
Memo to R* management: remind all your devs that when they're finally allowed to go home next week to make sure their wives are taking their meds.

That is absolutely disgusting. I know its an internet comment and I shouldn't care.
 
lawblob said:
Reads like it was written by a snobby 19 year old trying to sound sophisticated.

Sounds like a lot of game dev jobs are really crappy.

Pretty much. Also, you'd think that with a group of people as large as the letter is purporting to be from, they would at least let the best writer make up the letter instead of somebody whose concept of legalese comes from watching The Matrix: Reloaded way too many times.
 
The entire entertainment industry around the world is a high pressure sector of employment. There is no way to really escape that or to change that. You could say nice things and talk about change, but when push comes to shove and you have studios making games that the entire company is relying on to break even, well guess what you are going to feel the whip.

If these wives care, they should tell them to change jobs or even careers. This is not for the faint of heart and honestly i have never seen anyone treat it like such. I can't say anything as a programmer, but as an animator we are told by mentors and teachers to expect exactly this. Long work hours and crunchtime.
 
wow that makes my head hurt. its like it was google translated to hell and back.

what is the actual problem? all i got is that they are stressed?
 
KAP151 said:
Just read all that and the big post by Code Monkey. Sounds like there is a REAL leadership and direction problem in the studio.

I know RDR will turn out great, but it's sad to hear that so many personal and family lives are really hurting.

A comment by Mike Bradley: "The saddest part of the above is that Red Dead Redemption (the game the entire studio is working on) is an organic disaster of the most epic proportions. The pain just might be worth it for everyone if the work was worldclass and they could proudly place it on their resumes as they walk away from that mess. Sadly, it is anything but, and Bitter is correct mismanagement up and down the Rockstar chain is the direct cause. Red Dead Revolver 2: Dead On Arrival."

Uh-oh?
 
panda21 said:
wow that makes my head hurt. its like it was google translated to hell and back.

what is the actual problem? all i got is that they are stressed?
The language used was not elegant, but if that is all you managed to get out of the piece you may want to look at your reading comprehension skills.
 
12 or more hours a day, Saturdays, unpaid overtime, asshole management? Damn this sounds like my job. I'm glad that I am leaving at the end of the month and returning to the States where at least such terrible conditions warrant a written complaint.
 
This scares me. I hope they get investigated.

Even more so, I hope conditions in the New York office arent nearly as bad...
 
Rockstar are known for this, it's happened many times before (A factor which lead to half of Bully's dev team jumping ship just after the game was released)

Personally, I don't think that "Crunch Time" is actually of much value to the final product. Sure you may get more work out of each employee, but the work becomes of worse quality as the amount of overtime continues (since disgruntled employees tend to lose that passion for their work)

Funnyly enough, Nintendo are the most successful developers within the industry and they mandate 35 hours/5 day weeks IIRC. Sure their games take a long time to come out, but the quality is always very high and the sales usually make up for the long wait. (Next Level Games have a similar policy according to one of the Gamasutra comments and their games follow a similar pattern of good sales and quality)
 
Zefah said:
12 or more hours a day, Saturdays, unpaid overtime, asshole management? Damn this sounds like my job. I'm glad that I am leaving at the end of the month and returning to the States where at least such terrible conditions warrant a written complaint.

Where are you working now?
 
I too wonder how a game that cost 100 million, and made 10x that in revenue, does not result in a dev studio driving Porches and sipping champagne all day. Is the money going to all the wrong people (ie upper management)?

The recent rumor article about Infinity Ward seems to indicate that after their success they were able to dictate the terms of their upcoming projects and their reimbursement.

Rockstar (and Take Two as a whole) just sounds like a poorly run company.
 
It seems technical problems are the biggest cause of frustration.

The "build pipeline" appears to be fucked up and the technical directors don't seem to do anything about it.

This was one insightful comment:

I believe a boycott of the game we developers at R* SD are producing will not help to improve our situation, rather it may make things worse, but I appreciate your sentiment nonetheless. I believe many of us at the studio are putting a massive amount of love into the game we are creating, despite the often questionable working environment, in the hopes that massive sales of such a well-made product will give us all more leverage to exact a positive change in overall quality of life at the jobs we still love.

As a R* employee for a certain amount of years, let me first say that I feel like a proud citizen of my clan, but I like many of my peers seek a reprieve from the issues that the wives have boldly brought to the media's attention. I suppose I've been one to personally let things slide a lot over the last few months as I work many long hours, many of which I feel have been somewhat forced upon me, because I love my job so much, and every second I spend in my chair in front of my screen is only a second that comes completely natural to me. I like to make games, and I like to solve game problems. That being said, I also have a very supportive significant other half, and we have no children to feed and spend time with. Also because I'm in fairly good health, I don't find myself complaining about quality of life so much as I may complain of other issues at the studio that directly affect me. But I also do have close friends at the studio who have had their health and lives deteriorated in some way, and whether or not the long hours have directly contributed to these ailments, it certainly hasn't helped. And just because I may feel just fine today doesn't mean I'll still feel fine tomorrow or months down the road when it all catches up to me. And I acknowledge the day we have a child of our own may be a day of reckoning.

The blaming finger can be pointed in various directions here, but here's my take on the situation: We're producing a fantastic game right now, but in times past, it seemed to have little in the way of direction or conception. If it did indeed have these attributes, they were largely lost upon the majority of the development team, and many of us had little knowledge of what kind of product we were actually trying to put out there. I think we all do now, but it's in no thanks at all to any concerted effort whatsoever to actively motivate the team and evangelize the product to the developers themselves. I do believe that many of us didn't see how what we were doing could be important when we didn't really know what kind of game we're supposed to be making. Ultimately, I think we've all sort of "figured it out" and things started falling into place, but at the same time, I think this collective realization has put the pressure on all of us, management included, that we really need to nail this thing and get it out on shelves on time. There were extended core hours, frustrations rising, and then a false promise of the dropping of mandatory Saturdays, which seemed to last for about three such Saturdays.

But, perhaps an unsung root of the problems we face is a technical one, where many hours of productivity are wasted by everyone just waiting to get a build of the game that actually runs every time we need to update anything. Without getting too technical, lets just say that most of us are not happy with our build pipeline, and there are hundreds of errors and showstoppers that slow the game iteration down very significantly, in addition to many thousands of warnings that developers have littered about in both the build pipeline and the actual game itself for what we would assume are valid reasons, that pop up and nag, but there seems to be little effort on the part of the technical leads to enforce that these warnings be addressed. This I believe has brought us to where we are today. If these problems were minimized from the start, the game would have progressed much more quickly, and there would not be this frantic realization of being behind schedule and over-budget in the last year of development.

What Bitter PartyOfMany says about the "boys in New York" is also spot-on. For years there seemed to be indifference on the part of the big wigs everybody knows are really in charge, and the product never seemed to have true leaders. Directives come from people local to San Diego, when months later they are overridden arbitrarily by New York folks and work gets re-done, until they lose interest again or change their minds. Then of course we suffer their sustained scrutiny and sudden interest in what we're doing only in the last few months of development, and the weight and power they command often intimidates many of the leads at R* SD to the point where they may unnecessarily impose unreasonable expectations on the development team for the completion of a particular feature or bug fix, which may often not be universally agreed upon as particularly important.

When it's all said and done, I love my studio, I love my game, and I love my team, and I wouldn't give this up for the world. I just would like to see things improve for all of us, including our management.

A delay would apparently aleviate a lot of stress.

I say delay the game and realease it during summer. I would do both the game and the devs some good.

Releasing during summer can be very profitable and there is not a lot of competition.
 
Top Bottom