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Nintendo sends C&D letters to two fansites for hosting Pokemon Black & White images

F

Firestorm

Member
Information via Bulbagarden

To be fair, one of the sites, Pokebeach seems to be run by an absolute moron who posted this on the front page the day before he got the notice:
WaterPokemonTrainer said:
We just received copies of Pokemon Black and White (the ROMs, that is - our real copies are still being shipped).
Click to expand...
After complying, he threw a fit on his website:
WaterPokemonTrainer said:
Since us posting images of Black and White "has the potential to cause substantial damage to Nintendo," we have obviously complied with their wishes. All recent images of the games have been replaced by Ditto, a Pokemon from 1996 who we feel will best represent Pokemon's current image. We've also taken the liberty to change the name of this site to "PokerBeach" since we figured using "Poké" also has the chance of causing substantial damage to Nintendo's property. We hope that all English-speakers will remove images of Black and White from their websites, forums, blogs, YouTubes, Facebooks, instant messages, e-mails, homes, and minds since under law Nintendo has the right to declare any media they want, on any website they want, illegal and out of the domain of fair use [luckily criticism isn't]. We hope everyone will comply with their wishes or Pokemon may end up in the gutter, since covering and advertising new games for free is obviously counter-productive to Nintendo's sales. I mean, images of the games will obviously cost more damage than minor Isshus like this. Why go after the big guys when you can waste your lawyers' time on small fan sites that only help your franchise?
Click to expand...
The other site to get the notice was Serebii. Less information there as he didn't say his stuff was from the ROM as far as I can see. He is based in the UK.
Serebii said:
I have just received notification from Nintendo regarding the Pokémon Black & White games. They have requested that I no longer post images about the games claiming they violate intellectual property. As such, for the time being I have had to remove all images related to the games. Our section will still be massively indepth and I'll continue to cover the games where possible and provide an alternative to the images as and when we can.
Click to expand...
(If Serebii Joe is reading this, I hope you can see that I used ctrl+c to copy that text. This isn't 1995, stop disabling right click on your website.)

The notice that PokeBeach got:
PokeBeach said:
VIA EMAIL
URGENT & TIME SENSITIVE: IMMEDIATE ATTENTION REQUIRED
September 18, 2010
Registrant
PokeBeach.com
RE: Infringement of Nintendo of America Inc.’s Intellectual Property Rights

Dear Sir or Madam:

We are legal counsel to Nintendo of America Inc. (referred to here, with its parent and affiliated companies, as “Nintendo”). As you are no doubt well aware, Nintendo is one of the world’s leading developers and distributors of video game products. The Pokémon franchise is one of Nintendo’s most popular game series, and the upcoming release of the Pokémon Black and Pokémon White video games has garnered significant media attention. The intellectual property associated with the games, including the copyright in the underlying software code, visual
depictions of the games, and characters found within the games, is the subject of copyright protection in the United States and abroad.

We recently learned that you have posted screenshots and other protected content from the Pokémon Black and Pokémon White games to your website at http://pokebeach.com. While Nintendo appreciates your interest in and support of the Pokémon game series, your publication of this content infringes Nintendo’s copyrights in violation of federal law. Your activity also and has the potential to cause substantial damage to Nintendo, and leaves Nintendo with no choice but to take steps to protect its intellectual property rights.

We have accordingly submitted a copyright infringement notice to your domain registrar under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, and anticipate that your website will be taken down shortly. We encourage you to immediately remove from your website all graphics, screenshots, and other protected content taken from the Pokémon Black and Pokémon White games. Going forward, you must also refrain from posting any screenshots, videos, or other content that infringes Nintendo’s rights in the Pokémon series or any other game.

Your full and immediate compliance with the foregoing should render further action on Nintendo’s part unnecessary. It is essential that we receive your written response confirming that you have taken these necessary actions by Sunday, September 19, 12:00 p.m. PDT, however, or Nintendo will have no choice but to consider its alternative legal remedies.

PokeBeach.com
September 18, 2010
Page Two

Please contact me if you would like to discuss this matter in further detail. Nothing stated herein shall constitute a waiver of any rights or remedies of Nintendo of America Inc., its parent or affiliated companies, all of which are expressly reserved.

Very truly yours,
X
Click to expand...

Edit: Apparently Serebii had inadvertently admitted to pirating:
DarkWish said:
Serebii does use the ROM as well, folks. He never specifically says it on his site, but it's been confirmed he uses a ROM. One proof of that is that he at first said that you don't gain EXP points at the beginning of the game... but we later found out that yes you do, the fact that you don't gain EXP points is Anti-Piracy protection. Obviously once that was found out, that sentence mysterious disappeared off of Serebii's website. At least PokeBeach just admitted it out right and didn't try and hide the obvious. So both sites are to blame for using ROMs.
Click to expand...

Also, only these two sites have received any notice. Other popular sites like Bulbagarden, Veekun, Pokeexperto, and Smogon have not been contacted by Nintendo.
 
W

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
i came into this thread thinking Nintendo was getting all crazy over some shitty b&w jpegs until i realized that Black and White were the names of actual games.

edit: oh it is pictures? huh?
 
J

Jeels

Member
I can tell you working in the fan site community (for me its Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy) that there is a sense of skepticism, almost ironically, among the owners of these fansites when it comes to positive relations with the publishers of the games they honestly do provide free marketing for. It's even more so awesome because for many franchises (Pokemon is obviously one of them, what with sites like Serebii and Bulbapedia, although my example was KHInsider), the fan sites do a much better job of getting word out about the games and creating a community/platform for fans to talk about the games, express interest for it through fan works, art, etc, and find other like minded individuals.

The ROM thing is just stupid though.
 
P

plufim

Member
To be fair, they should have anticipated this, since it wouldn't have been possible for them to have received the import game by the time they were throwing up the sprites.

Had nintendo sent a C+D after these guys had an actual copy of the game, then that would have been a dick move. But right now, in nintendo's eyes, these sites are broadcasting "check it out guys, you can download the new pokemon".
 
F

Firestorm

Member
Jeels said:
I can tell you working in the fan site community (for me its Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy) that there is a sense of skepticism, almost ironically, among the owners of these fansites when it comes to positive relations with the publishers of the games they honestly do provide free marketing for. It's even more so awesome because for many franchises (Pokemon is obviously one of them, what with sites like Serebii and Bulbapedia, although my example was KHInsider), the fan sites do a much better job of getting word out about the games and creating a community/platform for fans to talk about the games, express interest for it through fan works, art, etc, and find other like minded individuals.

The ROM thing is just stupid though.
Click to expand...
That's really the same way I feel. The Pokemon Company International is actually pretty good with community relations compared to Nintendo of America though. This seems to have come from NoA. I feel like telling your fansites to take down sprites and stuff from the game is a pretty crappy way of dealing with the people most hyped about your game.

The ROM thing though is just :lol
 
W

Why would you do that?

Member
Yeah, I found out about it earlier in the Spoilers thread.

I wonder if sites will be able to post Black/White media in the future. I also thought it was common knowledge that the sprites and stuff from the old games were dumped straight from the ROM (and not copied pixel by pixel or something strange like that...)
 
J

JADS

Member
Nintendo said:
Going forward, you must also refrain from posting any screenshots, videos, or other content that infringes Nintendo’s rights in the Pokémon series or any other game.
Click to expand...

Nintendo is going straight for the throat I see.
 
J

Jeels

Member
plufim said:
To be fair, they should have anticipated this, since it wouldn't have been possible for them to have received the import game by the time they were throwing up the sprites.

Had nintendo sent a C+D after these guys had an actual copy of the game, then that would have been a dick move. But right now, in nintendo's eyes, these sites are broadcasting "check it out guys, you can download the new pokemon".
Click to expand...

That's not the reason those cease and desist letters give though, it has everything to do with the fact that, for example, we've now seen all the Pokemon, know all the game's new mechanics, and so forth. Beyond that, for all anyone would know (beyond the guy stating it himself), they could be getting the screens and media via visitors/fans of their sites/site staff themselves living in Japan.

Nintendo is going straight for the throat I see.
Click to expand...

That final statement actually really scares me and I hope it's not a precedent for future actions by Nintendo and/or other companies. Because it basically means any sort of media about future releases of any series can't be posted on these websites - essentially killing the idea of a fan site.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
Shiggie said:
No hes not. One of his youtube affiliates posted Rapidshare links to download the ROMs.
Click to expand...
Wait what? Do you mean someone affiliated with the website posted it in the description? :lol
 
F

Foffy

Banned
...But isn't the game out now? I mean, I can understand if it's before the release via a ROM leak and the game has yet to be released for a month and change or whatever, but the game has been out in Japan for over a day now.

Or is this a new idea by Nintendo, to hide information about their new releases on the internet? :lol
 
C

Cow Mengde

Banned
Jeels said:
That's not the reason those cease and desist letters give though, it has everything to do with the fact that, for example, we've now seen all the Pokemon, know all the game's new mechanics, and so forth. Beyond that, for all anyone would know (beyond the guy stating it himself), they could be getting the screens and media via visitors/fans of their sites/site staff themselves living in Japan
Click to expand...

It's been like that for many years though. We've known all the Pokemon and new moves and stuff since G/S I think. We get them as soon as the games were released and hackers hack the rom for information. I know I was reading up on D/P like 2 days after the Japanese release on serebii.
 
Z

Zilch

Banned
a1m said:
Pokebeach's answer was spot-on.
Click to expand...

Throwing a tantrum is "spot-on"?

It sucks that Nintendo did this, but they're not exactly in the wrong here. Like Firestorm said, Pokebeach dude blatantly advertised his use of the ROM.
 
J

Jeels

Member
Cow Mengde said:
It's been like that for many years though. We've known all the Pokemon and new moves and stuff since G/S I think. We get them as soon as the games were released and hackers hack the rom for information. I know I was reading up on D/P like 2 days after the Japanese release on serebii.
Click to expand...

Well Nintendo only has to throw a fuss about it when they want to. That's how these things work.

KHinsider got threats of a lawsuit just months before Kingdom Hearts 2's release because Buena Vista wanted the url, http://www.kingdomhearts2.net. At that time they also threw in a few other demands as well. Before that, it was all lollipops and roses.

Also, I don't think we should make this debate about the ROM, because Serebii certainly did not show any reason to believe the site was producing any of their content via ROM.
 
B

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
It's not really a waste of a lawyer's time when they enjoy it. Gotta sue 'em all.

But what do you expect? Of course an electronic mail is going to be super effective against a water Pokémon trainer.
 
F

Fantasy Final

Member
That final statement actually really scares me and I hope it's not a precedent for future actions by Nintendo and/or other companies. Because it basically means any sort of media about future releases of any series can't be posted on these websites - essentially killing the idea of a fan site.
Click to expand...
That's what I'm scared about.

Maybe they just want us to buy their guides instead of going to those sites.
 
Z

Zilch

Banned
I think this issue wouldn't be an issue if there was some way to get sprites, screens, etc. directly from the DS and I don't think there is a way for consumers to do this.
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
Jacobi said:
God, is GAF a Pokemon forum now?
Click to expand...
2vb1wye.jpg
Zangoose.png
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

Super Member
WaterPokemonTrainer said:
Since us posting images of Black and White "has the potential to cause substantial damage to Nintendo," we have obviously complied with their wishes. All recent images of the games have been replaced by Ditto, a Pokemon from 1996 who we feel will best represent Pokemon's current image.
Click to expand...
10o0bp2.jpg
 
D

DarkWish

Member
Serebii does use the ROM as well, folks. He never specifically says it on his site, but it's been confirmed he uses a ROM. One proof of that is that he at first said that you don't gain EXP points at the beginning of the game... but we later found out that yes you do, the fact that you don't gain EXP points is Anti-Piracy protection. Obviously once that was found out, that sentence mysterious disappeared off of Serebii's website. At least PokeBeach just admitted it out right and didn't try and hide the obvious. So both sites are to blame for using ROMs.
 
P

plufim

Member
Wasn't black/white leaked early though? I'm just wondering if either of these sites were posting assets before the actual launch in japan.
 
A

antonz

Member
Fantasy Final said:
That's what I'm scared about.

Maybe they just want us to buy their guides instead of going to those sites.
Click to expand...

Well the guy blatantly advertised he was using a pirated copy to get material for the site. At that point Nintendo doesn't want him having anything to do with Nintendo games ever again.

They are going easy on him by his own admission he committed piracy and they could decide to go after him for that if they wanted too.
 
J

Jeels

Member
DarkWish said:
Serebii does use the ROM as well, folks. He never specifically says it on his site, but it's been confirmed he uses a ROM. One proof of that is that he at first said that you don't gain EXP points at the beginning of the game... but we later found out that yes you do, the fact that you don't gain EXP points is Anti-Piracy protection. Obviously once that was found out, that sentence mysterious disappeared off of Serebii's website. At least PokeBeach just admitted it out right and didn't try and hide the obvious. So both sites are to blame for using ROMs.
Click to expand...

That's a bummer, but it doesn't really change the fact that Nintendo and/or other companies can basically gut any website, in case they were using legal means.
 
C

Celine

Member
DarkWish said:
Serebii does use the ROM as well, folks. He never specifically says it on his site, but it's been confirmed he uses a ROM. One proof of that is that he at first said that you don't gain EXP points at the beginning of the game... but we later found out that yes you do, the fact that you don't gain EXP points is Anti-Piracy protection. Obviously once that was found out, that sentence mysterious disappeared off of Serebii's website. At least PokeBeach just admitted it out right and didn't try and hide the obvious. So both sites are to blame for using ROMs.
Click to expand...
:lol
 
F

Firestorm

Member
plufim said:
Wasn't black/white leaked early though? I'm just wondering if either of these sites were posting assets before the actual launch in japan.
Click to expand...
Information on the games had been leaking before both the ROM leak and official release.

I didn't know Serebii had said that, DarkWish :lol
 
D

DarkWish

Member
plufim said:
Wasn't black/white leaked early though? I'm just wondering if either of these sites were posting assets before the actual launch in japan.
Click to expand...
It leaked a day or two early, but multiple people had legit copies at the time of the leak, even hours before. So really, either of them could have had legit copies, but we know they both used ROMs so it doesn't matter.
 
P

plufim

Member
Jeels said:
That's a bummer, but it doesn't really change the fact that Nintendo and/or other companies can basically gut any website, in case they were using legal means.
Click to expand...
Well, when push comes to shove, they own the art assets. They employed the guys who drew the new sprites, so they can say what can and can't be done with them.
 
W

WillyFive

Member
water_wendi said:
i came into this thread thinking Nintendo was getting all crazy over some shitty b&w jpegs until i realized that Black and White were the names of actual games.

edit: oh it is pictures? huh?
Click to expand...

An image is also used to mean a disc or copy of a game. For example, the physical DVD of Toy Story 3 contains an image of the content that is inside that DVD. Or something like it. Don't trust the internet.
 
F

funkmastergeneral

Banned
Jeels said:
That's a bummer, but it doesn't really change the fact that Nintendo and/or other companies can basically gut any website, in case they were using legal means.
Click to expand...

It's their right to do so, absolutely. These websites have soooo much information about a game unreleased in America.

Also it's not like these fan sites are the driving forces behind the incredible success of pokemon. The game would still sell gangbusters without the nerds at place like smogon.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
Jeels said:
That's a bummer, but it doesn't really change the fact that Nintendo and/or other companies can basically gut any website, in case they were using legal means.
Click to expand...
Well, that has technically always been the case. It's just a total PR no-no to threaten to sue your fansites for something that doesn't hurt you. This is also the reason you do not ask companies permission to use their assets. They will need to deny you unless it's in their press kit.

No other fansite has received the C&D letter. Veekun is still up as is Pokeexperto and Bulbagarden. Smogon hasn't hosted any of the images itself yet.
 
D

DarkWish

Member
Firestorm said:
I didn't know Serebii had said that, DarkWish :lol
Click to expand...
Yup. I was reading around on some other forums and people were confused when the ROM leaked cause they were playing the ROM and not gaining EXP and other people were like "don't worry, Serebii said you don't gain EXP at the beginning, so it must be working!", only to find out he fell for it too. :lol

Serves him right, Serebii can be quite the douche sometimes. When Serebii was revealing the English names for the Diamond/Pearl Pokemon one at a time, there was a guy on his forum that was leaking them out as "predictions". I caught on and started talking about them in Serebii's chatroom, and then Serebii started calling me out and saying I was being stupid in leaking them, I was part of the problem, and basically something like "this is why we can't have good things". He was basically getting upset that I was telling people the names when he hadn't revealed them yet, and sure enough soon after, he ended up posting all the names on his site at once. After that incident, I have no sympathy for him.
 
J

joetachi

Member
funkmastergeneral said:
It's their right to do so, absolutely. These websites have soooo much information about a game unreleased in America.

Also it's not like these fan sites are the driving forces behind the incredible success of pokemon. The game would still sell gangbusters without the nerds at place like smogon.
Click to expand...
Nintendo cough them both using roms i think the Spanish guy isn't in trouble.The images aren't the problem its the way they where acquired
 
W

Why would you do that?

Member
Wait... not gaining experience is an anti-piracy measure? That's awesome. :lol

Though maybe it wouldn't be too hard to capture higher level Pokemon and spam healing items to progress in the game. Then later trade Pokemon from your last gen games.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Well, I don't see anything wrong with what Nintendo is doing really. Anyone caught posting impressions from Pokemon roms will be banned from GAF, so Nintendo is just doing what they can do moderate on their copyright. It's actually kinda funny.
 
L

LegatoB

Member
Frankly, I don't see how knowing, for a fact, that these particular sites obtained pirated copies of the game makes any difference whatsoever in Nintendo's response. Or in our response to their response. I don't think it played any part in Nintendo's decision to C&D these sites, either.

How do you think any Pokemon fansite gets the in-game graphics they do from the titles? Easy -- they use an emulator's screencap feature. Maybe they're doing it from a ROM they personally dumped from their legally-purchased cartridge, but Nintendo has held for decades that they still consider this an "illegal copy," regardless of its actual legality in your area of residence.

If you look at the letter the sites received, none of it is related to software piracy specifically, and all of it is related to "screenshots and other protected content." I'm sure they're not pleased that these sites are so openly pirating their software, but I think this is just about control of their materials. They want to set the time-table for when information about the new games is available in English, not get beaten to the punch by possibly bi-lingual fansites.

(All of this is in the abstract, mind. I don't know for certain if the sites weren't, say, openly posting links to the ROMs or something more concrete like that, because I haven't visited them and don't really care enough to do so.)
 
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