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Woffls · May 3, 2011

Not sure if this was posted, I've been a bit out of the loop. It's from Kotaku soooo... yeah, might not even be worth reading but here it is anyway:

-----------

Kotaku

Nintendos Next Console Will Enter the HD Era, but Not the Hard Drive Era

The successor to the Wii will not include a traditional hard-drive but will bear some of the traits of competing high-definition game consoles, according to sources familiar with Nintendo's planned 2012 gaming machine.

The console, codenamed Project Café, will include 8 gigabytes of on-board flash-based memory, presumably for game storage.

The new 2012-scheduled Nintendo system will fall more in line with the 360 and PlayStation 3 by matching those consoles' abilities to render and output graphics in high-definition. I've heard mixed things about whether Nintendo will cap their machine's graphical resolution at 1080i or 1080p, but either figure would significantly exceed the Wii's 480p and achieve the resolutions used for most high-end console games on the Microsoft and Sony consoles.

Nintendo's disc format for the new console will hold 25GB of data, I've heard. That capacity is triple the size of the biggest DVD-style discs for Wii and Xbox 360 and comparable to the capacity of single-layer Blu-Ray discs on the PlayStation 3.

...

Nintendo is planning to enable the screen-controller to function in multiple ways, I've heard. It can serve simply as a standard game controller that imitates the posture of playing a game on a 360 or PS3. Its screen allows it to also present a supplemental, touch-sensitive viewing screen (for maps and inventory) that extends the game running on one's TV, an option that renders the controller as a plus-sized equivalent to the lower screen of a Nintendo DS, with the TV serving as the top screen, so to speak. A third option we've been hearing from several sources involves the new console streaming the same game that can be output onto a TV onto the controller screen, allowing high-end games to be played portably while within an unspecified range of the console. (Imagine, though it's crude, being able to take the game you were playing on your TV to the bathroom, via your screen-based controller.)

-----------

It is also mentioned that N6 will let you save to SD cards.

Update:

stephentotilo said:
You're asking if Wii Remotes will work with the new console? Yes. I and others have already reported that. You'd be mistaken to imagine multiple people huddled around a TV each with a Cafe screen-controller in their hand. I don't even know if the new console can stream to more than one controller (I've never asked). Imagine one person with the screen controller; another with a Wii Remote. Or multiple people with Wii Remotes and none with screen controllers. Mix and match.

Seda · May 3, 2011

Kotaku has some "Exclusive" new details about the Wii 2.

Apparently has 8gb internal memory...

discs are 25 gigs.

old?

beaten by a minute

StevieP · May 3, 2011

It's pretty well a given that Nintendo would use solid storage rather than HDs, likely with the support of SDHC cards as a supplement. Non-mechanical parts are a good thing for durability.

1080i? Low-end R700 confirmed. LOL
Nintendo Optical Disc blue-laser edition as well, if that's to be believed.

Grampa Simpson · May 3, 2011

Kotaku also had some rumors that it would give you a longer, harder erection.

MYE · May 3, 2011

Woffls said:
The console, codenamed Project Café, will include 8 gigabytes of on-board flash-based memory, presumably for game storage.

wat

edit: Oh, Kotaku. Excuse me while i eat shit to cleanse the taste of that site off my mouth

From The Dust · May 3, 2011

StevieP said:
It's pretty well a given that Nintendo would use solid storage rather than HDs, likely with the support of SDHC cards as a supplement. Non-mechanical parts are a good thing for durability.

1080i? Low-end R700 confirmed. LOL
Nintendo Optical Disc blue-laser edition as well, if that's to be believed.

1080i is a lot more that what most current HD games do anyway

Graphics Horse · May 3, 2011

Interesting.

I think larger disc capacity is not totally necessary right at this moment, but it's one of the things needed to ensure good support down the line once the other two have got their act together. The other one would be a decent increase in RAM but we haven't heard anything about that yet.

darkpaladinmfc · May 3, 2011

Yuck, 720p > 1080i.

Father_Brain · May 3, 2011

MYE said:
wat

edit: Oh, Kotaku. Excuse me while i eat shit to cleanse the taste of that site off my mouth

Totilo has been one of the better gaming journalists out there since his MTV Multiplayer days. I wouldn't dismiss anything from him based solely on LOL KOTAKU.

Kenka · May 3, 2011

Woffls said:
Not sure if this was posted, I've been a bit out of the loop. It's from Kotaku soooo... yeah, might not even be worth reading but here it is anyway:

-----------

Kotaku

The successor to the Wii will not include a traditional hard-drive but will bear some of the traits of competing high-definition game consoles, according to sources familiar with Nintendo's planned 2012 gaming machine.

The console, codenamed Project Café, will include 8 gigabytes of on-board flash-based memory, presumably for game storage.

The new 2012-scheduled Nintendo system will fall more in line with the 360 and PlayStation 3 by matching those consoles' abilities to render and output graphics in high-definition. I've heard mixed things about whether Nintendo will cap their machine's graphical resolution at 1080i or 1080p, but either figure would significantly exceed the Wii's 480p and achieve the resolutions used for most high-end console games on the Microsoft and Sony consoles.

Nintendo's disc format for the new console will hold 25GB of data, I've heard. That capacity is triple the size of the biggest DVD-style discs for Wii and Xbox 360 and comparable to the capacity of single-layer Blu-Ray discs on the PlayStation 3.

-----------

It is also mentioned that N6 will let you save to SD cards.

You may very well be one of the very last posters that will have had the right to post Kotaku's content without fearing the banhammer.

stilgar · May 3, 2011

MYE said:
wat

edit: Oh, Kotaku. Excuse me while i eat shit to cleanse the taste of that site off my mouth

Nice

I laughed

EatChildren · May 3, 2011

What do they mean cap the graphical resolution? As in, all games would have to run at that resolution, or it just cant go any higher? Because stating that the system cant go over 1080p would pretty obvious.

1080i would be a bit shit though. No real reason to go interlaced over progressive.

yoopoo · May 3, 2011

Probable things that are inferior on Wii 2 than current cell phones:

RAM
On board storage
Better online gaming system...?
Ability to output 1080p via HDMI
...
...
...

infinityBCRT · May 3, 2011

From The Dust said:
1080i is a lot more that what most current HD games do anyway

My laptop can do 1080p gaming and its almost 18 months old now.

If its a high end R700 we should get graphics that are close to the UE3 next-gen demo even if the CPU is at an Xbox 360 level.

I really doubt the 1080i thing. Doesn't make any sense. Interlacing introduces bad artifacts (shimmering unless the game is a solid 30 or 60 fps 100% of the time) and input lag. Better off dropping it down to 720p or bumping it up to 1080p.

StevieP · May 3, 2011

You do know that the ram used on cell phones is far far shittier and slower than the type gaming companies use, right? 1T-SRAM blows the wad off DDR3, even.

My laptop can do 1080p gaming and its almost 18 months old now.

We're talking about the consoles. Most major releases are <720P nowadays.

JohnTinker · May 3, 2011

I know you guys want to dump on Kotaku but I trust Totilo (who is probably watching this thread and may stop by). He's one of the good guys

1-D_FTW · May 3, 2011

Woffls said:
Not sure if this was posted, I've been a bit out of the loop. It's from Kotaku soooo... yeah, might not even be worth reading but here it is anyway:

-----------

Kotaku

The successor to the Wii will not include a traditional hard-drive but will bear some of the traits of competing high-definition game consoles, according to sources familiar with Nintendo's planned 2012 gaming machine.

The console, codenamed Project Café, will include 8 gigabytes of on-board flash-based memory, presumably for game storage.

The new 2012-scheduled Nintendo system will fall more in line with the 360 and PlayStation 3 by matching those consoles' abilities to render and output graphics in high-definition. I've heard mixed things about whether Nintendo will cap their machine's graphical resolution at 1080i or 1080p, but either figure would significantly exceed the Wii's 480p and achieve the resolutions used for most high-end console games on the Microsoft and Sony consoles.

Nintendo's disc format for the new console will hold 25GB of data, I've heard. That capacity is triple the size of the biggest DVD-style discs for Wii and Xbox 360 and comparable to the capacity of single-layer Blu-Ray discs on the PlayStation 3.

-----------

It is also mentioned that N6 will let you save to SD cards.

Yeah, that site is so full of bs I wouldn't believe a report that the sun rose in the east and set in the west.

And they're going to cap at 1080i? Right. There's no performance benefit from only running at 1080i. Just reduction in IQ. Plus, CRTs haven't been in production in about 5 years. They were the only tech (aside from an oddball here and there) supporting this format.

The whole things sounds stupid. So either Nintendo is really stupid for making a POS that's selling in the 350-400 range, or the article is.

radioheadrule83 · May 3, 2011

1-D_FTW said:
Yeah, that site is so full of bs I would believe a report that the sun rose in the east and set in the west.

And they're going to cap at 1080i? Right. There's no performance benefit from only running at 1080i. Just reduction in IQ. Plus, CRTs haven't been in production in about 5 years. They were the only tech (aside from an oddball here and there) supporting this format.

The article is really stupid.

Fixed!

Didn't take long to debunk that particular aspect (1080i)! How the hell does someone even come up with that? Watch people believe it though... I swear to god, sometimes it's like Sony or someone is editing these rumours.

The other stuff is potentially near the mark. 1080p, 25gb discs, and 8GB storage would be decent enough. Seems like an expensive way to implement on board storage though, it would be fast, but throwing in a 2.5" HDD would probably be much cheaper. Nintendo likes their fast memory, but they also like cheap.

Krev · May 3, 2011

1080i doesn't make sense. At all.
Why would you release a device outputting interlaced visuals in 2012?

StevieP · May 3, 2011

radioheadrule83 said:
Fixed!

Didn't take long to debunk that particular aspect (1080i)! How the hell does someone even come up with that? Watch people believe it though... I swear to god, sometimes it's like Sony or someone is editing these rumours.

The other stuff is potentially near the mark. 1080p, 25gb discs, and 8GB storage would be decent enough. Seems like an expensive way to implement on board storage though, it would be fast, but throwing in a 2.5" HDD would probably be much cheaper. Nintendo likes their fast memory, but they also like cheap.

2.5" HD would be FAR more expensive than 8GB of solid flash memory.
The 1080i thing only makes sense if the video output or videocard is gimped in some fashion - my guess would be no HDMI out, just component if that's the case. (Just for reference, a 1080i output means that it could still do 720P)

Graphics Horse · May 3, 2011

1-D_FTW said:
Right. There's no performance benefit from only running at 1080i. Just reduction in IQ.

But it could mean less dedicated frame buffer ram? I think you'd need to use field rendering though, like Gran Turismo 4's 1080i mode.

StevieP said:
2.5" HD would be FAR more expensive than 8GB of solid flash memory.

Exactly, it's why MS ship their cheapest 360s with 4GB of it right now, and the 3DS also has 4GB, split between two different forms.

manueldelalas · May 3, 2011

radioheadrule83 said:
Fixed!

Didn't take long to debunk that particular aspect (1080i)! How the hell does someone even come up with that? Watch people believe it though... I swear to god, sometimes it's like Sony or someone is editing these rumours.

The other stuff is potentially near the mark. 1080p, 25gb discs, and 8GB storage would be decent enough. Seems like an expensive way to implement on board storage though, it would be fast, but throwing in a 2.5" HDD would probably be much cheaper. Nintendo likes their fast memory, but they also like cheap.

1080i is idiotic.

I agree with you that a 2.5'' HDD is more logical, but as someone pointed, moving parts on the system makes it more unreliable, so they may scrap that, but I predict an HDD.

The thing is, if the system comes with a big HDD, then it'll have DL DVDs (high end PCs use DL DVDs, no reason for Nintendo to go Blu Ray), but if it comes with a small SSD, then it'll probably have a Blu Ray drive.

Storing shit in SD cards is hardly a rumor, Nintendo did it with the Wii, DS and 3DS, so it's almost a given.

DXB-KNIGHT · May 3, 2011

I can swallow that Nintendo might use minimum storage to cut cost but a resolution cap? I can't see any benefit.

Pathetic Basement Virgin · May 3, 2011

dwu8991 said:
I'm just starting out in single player.

Hey I agree with you on the gameplay thing They could've made pansy mode for people like me that want lock-on.

Plinko · May 3, 2011

DXB-KNIGHT said:
I can swallow that Nintendo might use minimum storage to cut cost but a resolution cap? I can't see any benefit.

That's because there isn't one, further proving that Kotaku is garbage and should be banned.

beje · May 3, 2011

The 1080i/p stuff is kind of stupid. Unless they mean it's a low cap like "it must run at least at 1080i" being higher resolutions (720p, 1080p) optional.

Mr_Brit · May 3, 2011

infinityBCRT said:
My laptop can do 1080p gaming and its almost 18 months old now.

If its a high end R700 we should get graphics that are close to the UE3 next-gen demo even if the CPU is at an Xbox 360 level.

I really doubt the 1080i thing. Doesn't make any sense. Interlacing introduces bad artifacts (shimmering unless the game is a solid 30 or 60 fps 100% of the time) and input lag. Better off dropping it down to 720p or bumping it up to 1080p.

Lol. Any laptop can game at 1080p, whether it can do so at max settings and 60FPS is another matter.

No R700 card will get near the Epic Next gen demo(not unless you mean at 720p and even then it's still very unlikely as tesselation and texture memory won't go down if you go down to 720p). A 360 level CPU would also be too weak to keep the GPU fed, you'll need something much faster if you don't want to bottleneck the GPU.

Plinko · May 3, 2011

Can we please stop bringing up the Epic demo as if it is the be-all-end-all acceptable benchmark for graphics on a new console? It's all but assured this thing isn't going to hit that mark and it's not going to have an effect on it's sales in the least. Not sure why it keeps coming up.

Mr_Brit · May 3, 2011

Plinko said:
Can we please stop bringing up the Epic demo as if it is the be-all-end-all acceptable benchmark for graphics on a new console? It's all but assured this thing isn't going to hit that mark and it's not going to have an effect on it's sales in the least. Not sure why it keeps coming up.

It's only being brought up by people who have no idea how much more powerful 3xGTX 580s are than an R700 GPU. Anyone with even a vague idea of the power behind that tech demo wouldn't make the suggestion that Wii 2 could run something like that.

Mithos · May 3, 2011

Isn't 1080i the same as 1920x540 x 2, and if so wouldn't that be needing less power then to do 1080p as in 1920x1080?
Talking about half-frames vs full-frames, difference?

Anyone that's in the know how please explain =)

Acheteedo · May 3, 2011

25GB disk space might seem ample now, but this thing is supposed to compete for 4-5 years, it just seems so short-sighted... not to mention the 8GB of storage, that would be... very special of Nintendo.

Emitan · May 3, 2011

I don't care about only having 8GB of flash memory if Nintendo just allows us to put in an optional hard drive. Or if it's possible to replace the flash memory yourself. I just took apart my PS3 a few days ago, I want to open these up and mod them!

Anth0ny · May 3, 2011

1080i would be dumb
no hard drive would be dumb

don't be dumb nintendo

jacksrb · May 3, 2011

Plinko said:
That's because there isn't one, further proving that Kotaku is garbage and should be banned.

I love that 'monkeys typing at Kotoku' image as much as anyone, but Totilo is one of the people I would trust the most.

The flash memory seems very Nintendo.

Do we think that means that they won't have GameCube games in the VC? Those are 1.5 GBs, right?

Vitet · May 3, 2011

I think it would be 1080p for sure. The HDD thing... I'm not so sure.

Nintendo will want games as easy to play as possible, so I don't see installations in Café, so the 8GB may be a reality...

EDIT: I don't think we will see GC games in VC. Because if it's retrocompatible with Wii it will be with GC too most likely

ace3skoot · May 3, 2011

supabrett said:
Hey I agree with you on the gameplay thing They could've made pansy mode for people like me that want lock-on.

okay i'll bite

if you want a lock on button, you haven't understood why monster hunter is fun, and the reason it controls like it does

a lock on button would fundementally change what a monser hunter game is, and thus play something else...also avoid wii-mote controls but id imagine thats a given at this point.

on topic:
Yeah i just don't believe any rumors anymore, and the 1080i one is just batshit weird...

I'm hoping Nintendo will have a HDD...its must b cheap enough to produce nowadays, my external 1TB was only 60 bucks, i would settle for 50Gb...hell 20GB would do. Otherwise the concept of DLC with be pointless on Wii 2.

wsippel · May 3, 2011

Acheteedo said:
25GB disk space might seem ample now, but this thing is supposed to compete for 4-5 years, it just seems so short-sighted... not to mention the 8GB of storage, that would be... very special of Nintendo.

25GB makes perfect sense. Blu-ray tech, no Blu-ray royalties, and the single layer drive makes for a cheaper laser array. 8GB fast internal flash + SD is also pretty much in line with my expectations.

Brazil · May 3, 2011

Anth0ny said:
1080i would be dumb
no hard drive would be dumb

don't be dumb nintendo

Incredibly dumb.

Pyrokai · May 3, 2011

Not sure how I feel about the lack of a hard drive. I was okay with it for the Wii, but I feel like it should be a given in 2012. Maybe they'll actually go for a lower price? Everyone keeps touting around $350-$400 based on that IGN article, but I'd say any price is a given right now, and it will probably be the LAST thing they unveil.

And again, I'm still worried this is an extension of this gen instead of a next-gen console... Please, Nintendo, assure yourself some multiplatform games from the PS4720 that aren't gimped. Please......

Graphics Horse · May 3, 2011

No hard drive seems a given to me, I wonder how much a 256GB SD card will be in a year's time.

StevieP · May 3, 2011

Acheteedo said:
25GB disk space might seem ample now, but this thing is supposed to compete for 4-5 years, it just seems so short-sighted... not to mention the 8GB of storage, that would be... very special of Nintendo.

Dude, it's more than enough. In fact it's "future proofing". Blu-Ray drives are mostly useless for games this gen aside from those that have like hours of HD FMV footage such as Final Fantasy. And even then... implement a damn MKV codec or something, FFS.

no hard drive would be dumb

Solid state flash memory is still, well... storage. 32GB SD cards aren't that expensive, either.

Woffls · May 3, 2011

1080i is a stupid idea, and I think the most likely outcome for that is just miscommunication somewhere between a dev kit and Kotaku.

It might even be sensible of Nintendo to rely on SD cards for storage from now on. They drop in price all the time, and it makes the investment required for all N6 consumers completely scalable in that regard. Consumers who don't need any storage will be happy with the 8gb standard, and enthusiasts will be able to go out and buy a 16gb card for about $20. Okay, it's not ideal for everyone, but I'd rather have that kind of option available to me than being forced to buy a 500gb HDD or something.

Might also be worth noting that I've got the same Xbox 360 20gb HDD I got in 2005. It still has Hexic HD on it!

wsippel · May 3, 2011

Plinko said:
Can we please stop bringing up the Epic demo as if it is the be-all-end-all acceptable benchmark for graphics on a new console? It's all but assured this thing isn't going to hit that mark and it's not going to have an effect on it's sales in the least. Not sure why it keeps coming up.

Well, that demo ran on a >1,000W system. That system most certainly even exceeds Sony's and Microsoft's next generation systems.

Brazil · May 3, 2011

Graphics Horse said:
No hard drive seems a given to me, I wonder how much a 256GB SD card will be in a year's time.

How far we've come.

guldakot · May 3, 2011

I havea couple 32 gb flash cards laying around so with the 8gb onboard and one of those, I would have the same storage as my 360. Its not ideal, but its not terrible either.

At least the 8gb included on the system would be enough for some dlc.

jacksrb · May 3, 2011

Pyrokai said:
Not sure how I feel about the lack of a hard drive. I was okay with it for the Wii, but I feel like it should be a given in 2012. Maybe they'll actually go for a lower price? Everyone keeps touting around $350-$400 based on that IGN article, but I'd say any price is a given right now, and it will probably be the LAST thing they unveil.

And again, I'm still worried this is an extension of this gen instead of a next-gen console... Please, Nintendo, assure yourself some multiplatform games from the PS4720 that aren't gimped. Please......

Agree on the price thoughts, but also will say that the 'next-gen' feature outside of graphic fidelity that I most missed on Wii was downloading and playing demos for full retail releases. Anyone have a good feel for what an average demo download is (like a Batman AA)?

Hiro · May 3, 2011

Plinko said:
Can we please stop bringing up the Epic demo as if it is the be-all-end-all acceptable benchmark for graphics on a new console? It's all but assured this thing isn't going to hit that mark and it's not going to have an effect on it's sales in the least. Not sure why it keeps coming up.

It's brought up because it is a benchmark for what the 8th gen of consoles should be capable of. If 8th gen consoles cannot run Project Samaritan, then what is the point of proceeding into the 8th gen. That's why it is brought up. Sorry your being an asshole about it. But yeah, for now it is the be all end all benchmark for graphics, considering it is the best graphics we've seen thus far. Maybe Crytek will release a tech demo later in the year that will exceed it, then expectations will rise. That's call technological advancement. You herp derp.

Shin Johnpv · May 3, 2011

Mr_Brit said:
It's only being brought up by people who have no idea how much more powerful 3xGTX 580s are than an R700 GPU. Anyone with even a vague idea of the power behind that tech demo wouldn't make the suggestion that Wii 2 could run something like that.

To go along with this, people need to also realize that the PS4 and Xbox 720 or what ever they end up being called are not going to be able to push that tech either.

*edit*

Anyone expecting that level of tech for next gen is going to be so disappointed.

Emitan · May 3, 2011

No hard drive screwed over Microsoft on the 360. It still is now. Bought the new 360 Slim that comes with Halo: Reach? Better buy a hard drive if you want to play co-op or Firefight!

Hiro said:
It's brought up because it is a benchmark for what the 8th gen of consoles should be capable of. If 8th gen consoles cannot run Project Samaritan, then what is the point of proceeding into the 8th gen. That's why it is brought up. Sorry your being an asshole about it. But yeah, for now it is the be all end all benchmark for graphics, considering it is the best graphics we've seen thus far. Maybe Crytek will release a tech demo later in the year that will exceed it, then expectations will rise. That's call technological advancement. You herp derp.

Samaritan is just a stupid graphical gimmick. Games don't need to be even close to it to be much better than they are this gen. If you think the 720 and PS4 will be able to run that exact same demo then enjoy your $1200 consoles.

Guerrillas in the Mist · May 3, 2011

The 1080i thing makes no sense, unless Nintendo is not including HDMI output, which considering the fact that Nintendo wants to "keep up with the times" and be inclusive of third parties, is crazy. Kotaku is up to their shenanigans again.

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