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IGN exposes terrible Team Bondi working conditions; McNamara: Yep, it happened.

S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
Update:

Curufinwe said:
IGN Australia have an article based on interviews with eleven anonymous former Team Bondi members and Team Bondi studio head Brendan McNamara.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/117/1179020p1.html
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Original:

recap by VG247

Development staff were allegedly made to work up to 12 hours each day, and through weekends, with little encouragement or support from management.

Although long hours and weekend work are common during crunch time, the source said he’d suffered these conditions for over a year before quitting – before L.A. Noire shipped, meaning the crunch likely extended well beyond 12 months.
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More here - http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/...oire-faces-credits-crisis-20110620-1gaw3.html
 
Another developer, who contributed to the gameplay of L.A. Noire for just over three years, said he left before the game was completed because "I felt as though my sanity depended on it".

Team Bondi boss Brendan McNamara Photo: Jon Reid
He said he was asked to work 10-12 hours almost every day and on weekends and described working at Team Bondi as being an inflexible and virtually praise-free environment.
"So, after my wife had been pushing me to quit for more than a year, I did," he said.
The developer said he didn't believe being left off the credits had affected him prefessionally but he wanted to be recognised because he had dedicated "25 per cent of my professional life" to the blockbuster game.

"There has been a lot of press saying how incredible this is for the Australian gaming industry, since it is the biggest (and most successful) game made in Australia to date," he said.
"But that has come at the price that most of the people that worked on it will never have proof of having worked there (unless they want to pull out a paycheck)."
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Wow.
 
Mr Touchdown said:
First Red Dead Redemption and now LA Noire. Just what is up with working with Rockstar?
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some anonymous source from Max Payne 3 team described the situation as the same.
 
Mr Touchdown said:
First Red Dead Redemption and now LA Noire. Just what is up with working with Rockstar?
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Well, aside from it being run by secretive brothers who refuse to let anyone under them talk to the outside world, horrible crunches and not getting recognized?
I bet they also don't have a coffee machine at their offices.

It's an industry-wide issue, but it is most glaring on games that take forever to be completed. Thus over 130 people who have worked for months on the game and even years don't get acknowledged.

I also doubt most of those people were fired. Remember about a year ago when there was that Twitter feed talking about how shitty working on Bohndi was and how the games title was due to a typo?
 
I've never understood why you would remove someone from the credits of a title they worked on..

What positive effect does it have for the studio or publisher? None. There's a positive gain for say, withholding payment because the company then keeps the money which it can use for something else (which wouldn't be right, but I at least see the rationale behind it). But withholding credit from people out of spite because they quit on you is senseless.

Using it as a carrot to keep people to stay is like telling you're wife you will beat the kids if she leaves you. It's just plain wrong.

I've literally fired psychopathic and lazy contractors before their contracts were up and still credited them for the work they did on the title. It's fair and I gain nothing by removing it expect the satisfaction that I screwed someone over, forget that.
 
Fuck rockstar, they are the shittiest devs to work for in the world. I heard so many horror stories about R* Vancouver from coworkers and friends who worked there.
 
Animator said:
Fuck rockstar, they are the shittiest devs to work for in the world. I heard so many horror stories about R* Vancouver from coworkers and friends who worked there.
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those guys who work on Max Payne, am I right?
 
At least this news might bring the other side of it to see, the article says:


The developer conceded that some staff were told that they would not be credited unless they stayed with the company until the game shipped but maintained that it was still not fair or ethical. The list of omissions included one lead engine developer who had worked on the game for four years.​



So we'll see; considering also that:

The International Game Developers Association (IGDA) has developed guidelines regarding credits for video games, but at present none of the big game development houses has formally adopted them.

The guidelines state that any contractor or employee who has contibued to the production of a game for at least 30 days must be credited and credit is retained by people who leave the company or project prior to the game's completion.
The IGDA would not comment on whether the decision by Team Bondi to leave over 100 developers off the credits list was fair.

"It's important for individuals working in the industry to check their contracts before signing them so they are aware of how and where they will be credited for their work," a spokeswoman for the IGDA Melbourne chapter said.​



So if the developers knew about it as the previous quote says, and it's in the contract; they knew what they were getting into. So is not like Rockstar/Bondi just didn't put them to piss them off.
 
Jackson said:
I've never understood why you would remove someone from the credits of a title they worked on..
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Spite.

Someone from Mythic, maybe Marc Jacobs or Paul Barnett, defended their policy of removing from the credits anyone who left before the game was finished as basically being payback for betrayal.

The sad fact of life is that many people will abuse whatever small amount of power they have.

someone else said:
So if the developers knew about it as the previous quote says, and it's in the contract; they knew what they were getting into. So is not like Rockstar/Bondi just didn't put them to piss them off.
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Times are tough, is someone really going to turn down a job because an obscure clause of their contract says they might not be listed in credits? The fact that it's in the credits doesn't make it right.

Abusing employees then relying on blackmail to retain them is beyond lame.

Edit: As far as the IGDA goes - does anyone take them seriously? Publishers, developers, individual employees? Their stance on anything is wholly irrelevant.
 
I worked at a company that would put people who left early under "special thanks". But that was with 1 year product cycles, so it was never more than a handful of months of work that didn't get explicitly credited. Four years and no credit is just stupid.
 
fernoca said:
At least this news might bring the other side of it to see, the article says:


The developer conceded that some staff were told that they would not be credited unless they stayed with the company until the game shipped but maintained that it was still not fair or ethical. The list of omissions included one lead engine developer who had worked on the game for four years.​



So we'll see; considering also that:

The International Game Developers Association (IGDA) has developed guidelines regarding credits for video games, but at present none of the big game development houses has formally adopted them.

The guidelines state that any contractor or employee who has contibued to the production of a game for at least 30 days must be credited and credit is retained by people who leave the company or project prior to the game's completion.
The IGDA would not comment on whether the decision by Team Bondi to leave over 100 developers off the credits list was fair.

"It's important for individuals working in the industry to check their contracts before signing them so they are aware of how and where they will be credited for their work," a spokeswoman for the IGDA Melbourne chapter said.​



So if the developers knew about it as the previous quote says, and it's in the contract; they knew what they were getting into. So is not like Rockstar/Bondi just didn't put them to piss them off.
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They kind of did do it to be assholes. It's a simple thing, you do work, you deserve credit for it.

Bondi's defense is "you signed a piece of paper giving the management clearance to be bastards." It's a weak defense, that just says that legally Bondi is okay, even though it doesn't clear them morally.
 
Open Source said:
I worked at a company that would put people who left early under "special thanks". But that was with 1 year product cycles, so it was never more than a handful of months of work that didn't get explicitly credited. Four years and no credit is just stupid.
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I like the Valve approach of simply listing everybody who contributed in alphabetical order by surname.
 
MuseManMike said:
Sounds absolutely awful.
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Yep, and if true I hope to see some lawsuits filed against Rockstar. Shit working conditions are unforgivable in this day and age.

I'm not a union guy, but if this sort of shit continues then I hope companies like Rockstar get a stiff, throbbing union dick up their ass.

Don't treat your employees with disrespect.
 
Also as some noted in the comments section there, this is basically non-news, as many of us (?) that have worked through different areas in the industry, business, etc. have been at moments were we didn't received "credit" for something ,yet were still acknowledged.

In this case, the real news would be if all this guys that were aside not credited in the game, but couldn't put Rockstar/Bondi in their resumes or if they did, Rockstar/Bondi gave negative references of said employee.

Which is why I guess the employees don't want to identify themselves. If they knew that they weren't going to be on the credits and it's on their contracts, then there's nothing they can do and doesn't make sense why they're screaming now; when some knew about it for more than 4 years. But if they can't put Rockstar/Bond as a reference or they don't acknowledge the developers worked over a period of time in there; then that's what would cause a bigger problem and uproar.

Guess we'll see.


D3adend said:
They kind of did do it to be assholes. It's a simple thing, you do work, you deserve credit for it.

Bondi's defense is "you signed a piece of paper giving the management clearance to be bastards." It's a weak defense, that just says that legally Bondi is okay, even though it doesn't clear them morally.
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It may be asshole-ish; but there's no law or anything that says that someone deserves credit for something; even less if you actually sign something that accepts you won't receive any credit.

It's the "sad way" things work not only in the gaming industry but in all industries. Companies don't go around giving credit to employees for their sake, they do it to raise the morale of some.

Some companies work different than others, some have programs that are focused to take care of the employee.

But in general they only care about profits and making the products, so many just swallow their pride and move on.
 
fernoca said:
So if the developers knew about it as the previous quote says, and it's in the contract; they knew what they were getting into. So is not like Rockstar/Bondi just didn't put them to piss them off.
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Yes, they did it to keep them as indentured servants, essentially.
 
Mr Touchdown said:
First Red Dead Redemption and now LA Noire. Just what is up with working with Rockstar?
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Aiming for 10 million+ sellers in massive projects. I haven't played LA Noire but GTA IV and RDR are infront of the curve of content that probably takes countless man hours. The management culture probably is horrible but they are making products that even under the best conditions probably could not be made in fewer hours.
 
subversus said:
Not for a year straight without weekends.
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Not true. I know personally of at least two - nearly three - AAA projects being released this year which have been crunching for around a year already. Evenings, weekend, no overtime, two completely different studios, different paymasters etc, nothing to do with Rockstar. If it's AAA, there's a crunch. Hell, if it's a game there's a crunch.
 
whatevermort said:
Not true. I know personally of at least two - nearly three - AAA projects being released this year which have been crunching for around a year already. Evenings, weekend, no overtime, two completely different studios, different paymasters etc, nothing to do with Rockstar. If it's AAA, there's a crunch. Hell, if it's a game there's a crunch.
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damn
 
What I don't really get is how management work this stuff through...

Sure you can make someone work an 84 hour week, but what if you only end up getting them working at 30% capacity (or less) because their morale is so low.


I would want a happy motivated workforce... not a bunch of brow beaten slaves.
 
...How about that Saint's Row? They let their team post on GAF. ;)

NinjaFusion said:
What I don't really get is how management work this stuff through...

Sure you can make someone work an 84 hour week, but what if you only end up getting them working at 30% capacity (or less) because their morale is so low.


I would want a happy motivated workforce... not a bunch of brow beaten slaves.
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Given sales and critical review, it seems to work just fine for them
 
That's fucking lousy. How hard is it to add a few additional lines in a scrolling credit? These people obviously wasted their hours helping to make the game to what it is now.
 
Kintaro said:
Isn't crazy hours the norm in this industry?
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depends on the studio, some treat their employees like people others beat the shit out of them.

crunch time needs to be worked out of the industry for it to be enjoyable to work in. the problem stems from multiple areas. one is publishers announcing games too early and setting impossible to meet release dates under normal work hours. you also have employees that procrastinate instead of working at a comfortable speed. shit adds up once the already tight release date is just around the corner.
worst thing from my own experience with stuff like this is that once the higher ups see how much can get done during crunch time and you successfully meet your deadline then you are expected to do more the next time around.
 
Stuff like this is why I would never want to work in the video game industry. Companies like Valve are the exception not the rule.
 
Yeah working 12 hour shifts is not unusual in the industry, working on the weekends is not unusual either. But doing this for almost an entire year is terrible and not healthy, usually 3-4 months from the end of development is when the hours get pretty hectic but an whole year of this is ridiculous, no human should have to do that.

EDIT: I should add that if this is happening, the pay should be VERY generous.
 
The M.O.B said:
Yeah working 12 hour shifts is not unusual in the industry, working on the weekends is not unusual either. But doing this for almost an entire year is terrible and not healthy, usually 3-4 months from the end of development is when the hours get pretty hectic but an whole year of this is ridiculous, no human should have to do that.
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Employers riding the economic downturn hype train laugh at you. Workers are being exploited like dirty plebeians all over the country. At least the LA Noire guys were getting nice pay, I'm sure.
 
Mr Touchdown said:
First Red Dead Redemption and now LA Noire. Just what is up with working with Rockstar?
Click to expand...

My crunch times were never as long - and on games nowhere near as high profile - but the story's the same. It's standard operating procedure. Which is why the claims of "lazy devs" from time to time do irk me so.

(Also, it was standard operating procedure to remove names from credits of people who'd left, although that said, some of the more vocal producers would fight against that)
 
Another reason why, while the gaming industry sounds like a fulfilling place to work, I might well turn down a position if the chance came up.

I worked 14-hour days as a 'salaryman' in Tokyo for a pittance and saw half of my 20s stolen from me. Never again -- the sleep deprivation, which makes you alternately homicidally angry and depressed, is the worst part.

If you have to stay in budget by paying your employees less but hiring more of them, do it. Just make sure they have time to eat and sleep and not keel over from exhaustion.
 
Dunan said:
If you have to stay in budget by paying your employees less but hiring more of them, do it.
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Now, I can't speak for standard procedure with pay scales, but for the first five years or so I was dancing around overdrafts and credit card debt with no savings to speak of - and I don't exactly live extravagantly. Had I been paid *less*, I'm not quite sure how I'd have made ends meet.

Things did get better in that respect, to be fair.
 
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