• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Oliver Stone's ALEXANDER Revisited: The Final Cut is a worthy epic

Status
Not open for further replies.

JB1981

Member
Why do people hate this movie so much?
Is it because of teh ghey? Colin Farrell is a prick? Val Kilmer got fat? Angelina Jolie's Russian accent? Oliver Stone is crazy?

The Final Cut is $9.99 on blu-ray. The movie is bold, audacious and brave, clocking in at 3hrs and 45 minutes and spread across two blu-ray discs with a classic old-school Hollywood intermission. Three hours and 45 minutes of this shit??!! You say! Yes! And I didn't feel it ever once dragged. I watched it two nights back-to-back after work.

The movie has been restructured in major ways. The battle of Guagamela opens the picture now rather than appearing in the middle. Whole plot threads are restored and character relationships have been more fully developed. Transitions from past to present and present to past now make more narrative sense. The narration of Ptolemy feels more natural.

Stone's take on Alexander to be fascinating. Compared to the historical figures in other, more well-received Hollywood epics such as Maximus (Gladiator), Balian (Kingdom of Heaven), William Wallace (Braveheart), Achilles (Troy), Alexander is far more complex and far more interesting. We see the manipulation of his mother, a woman who tormented him all his life but also provided for him the impetus to dream big and conquer the world, instilling in him the notion that he is the son of Zeus. Without her influence, Alexander may have never dreamed as big as he did. He also may never have been King, of course. One area where this version differs significantly with the theatrical release is in the depiction of Philip's public assassination. In the theatrical it is strongly implied that Olympias was behind it. However, in this version an embittered Pausanias (the greek soldier that does the deed) was just looking for some revenge after public humiliation. Jolie's Olympias is suitably manic and manipulative, which was probably a necessity for surivival.

Farrell's performance as Alexander is remarkable. By turns he is a young, sheepish teenager hoping to win the affection of his parents and later showing Alexander's courage, madness, arrogance and vulnerability. The performance runs the full gamut of emotions and I believe it is the best role or Farrel's career. Truly demanding work. One of my favorite scenes (not with Farrel) but with Alexander as a young kid is when he tames Bucephalus. The music by Vangelis (Young Alexander) beautifully captures the moment.

Kilmer is excellent as well. As Philip of Macedonia we see his complicated relationship with Alexander. Philip, was an abusive father, always playing Alexander against his mother and her lies and deception. But then, as we see with his mother, there are more intimate scenes of them together, like in the caves where Philip tells Alexander of the Myths (achilles and prometheus) "A King isn't born, Alexander, he's made."

This movie is decadent, opulent and unbashed romanticism. The thing has a real emotional pulse and pathos. I love how heavily it incorporates the myths into common dialog between characters. Their power and influence hangs like a cloud over everything they do. And Alexander is presented as a quasi-mythic figure every bit their equal. A God who roamed the earth, even surpassing the great feats of Achilles. The movie is unafraid to show the bromance between Alexander and Hephastion (Jared Leto). For Stone, Alexander truly loved Hephastion because he always accepted Alexander for who he was, even at a young age. He never pushed him to be a better man or to live up to the heroes of old. He never had to be anyone else for him. Their scenes together remain relatively the same in this version, so it leads me to believe that Stone didn't hold much back from the theatrical release (a common criticism of the movie at that time).

The battle scenes are rousing and massive in scope (the battle against the elephants must have been incredibly complicated), but is pulled off adeptly. Vangelis provides a stirring and heroic score. The cinematography is crisp and colorful, and not filtered in grit or yellow piss filters. Much of the movie is bathed in deep color and sunlight.

For $10 on blu-ray you don't have much to lose. The picture quality is fantastic and there are some really good behind the scenes documentaries, one of them produced by Stone's son, who took time off school to follow his father on this 3 year journey to make the movie of his dreams. Just like the Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut before it, Alexander Revisited is worth your time. According to Stone, this is the movie he always wanted to release to the world. A movie uncensored, uncompromised by test screenings or studio influence. A movie he is very proud of and considers one of his great works. Give it a try and this time with an open mind. I think you will find that there is a lot to appreciate here.
 
3h45? of this shit?!!! Sounds like a tough sell but I'll give it another look-see. I admittedly don't remember anything aside from Jolie.

Also I enjoyed money never sleeeepzz so I still think Oliver Stone has something left.

Colin Farrell's underrated. It seems like in the last decade he actively sought out directors worth a damn as opposed to oscar-bait or flashy scripts.
 

AAequal

Banned
I went to see this in theater and I don't really remeber it all. I do recall that it had gruesome and fucking awesome battle scenes but other then that no memory. It might be a time for a re-watch.
 
The Final Cut is amaaaaazing! lots and lots and lots of homosexual tension, too. i didn't like that but it was a part of the times


any fan of history will love it as well, as the attention to detail in historical elements is soooo spot on. The Hetairoi are beautifully rendered here, as are the Indians, the Hypaspists, the everything. The Phalanx here is so awesomely shown. Makedonia4life
 

JB1981

Member
The Final Cut is amaaaaazing! lots and lots and lots of homosexual tension, too. i didn't like that but it was a part of the times


any fan of history will love it as well, as the attention to detail in historical elements is soooo spot on. The Hetairoi are beautifully rendered here, as are the Indians, the Hypaspists, the everything. The Phalanx here is so awesomely shown. Makedonia4life
Yea the homosexual tension was off the charts. I dealt with it... But some of it did seem a little cheesy
 

Wiktor

Member
THe movie was a special acomplishemnt. It couldn't have been easy to make a boring movie out of Alexander's life :)
 

Morn

Banned
Aside from Rosario Dawson's tits flapping freely, this whole movie is:
mj-laughing.gif


And this is coming from someone who usually likes Oliver Stone.
 
THe movie was a special acomplishemnt. It couldn't have been easy to make a boring movie out of Alexander's life :)

i thought it did a great job. he was a complex dude with all sorts of shit going on in his head.

what the Final Cut does is sparse the past and present between eachother really really well.
 

Manager

Member
Aside from Rosario Dawson's tits flapping freely, this whole movie is:
mj-laughing.gif


And this is coming from someone who usually likes Oliver Stone.

Saw it on TV a couple of weeks ago, completely agree. Sidenote: the accents felt off and Jolie's performance was all in all very weird.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jtgMJdLugk

I do understand it's supposed to be Eastern-European accent, but it still doesn't make her sound less ridiculous. Kind of like mad scientist or vampire esque. The rest spoke some weird mix of Scottish, UK English and Russian.

5.4 on IMDB feels about right.

THe movie was a special acomplishemnt. It couldn't have been easy to make a boring movie out of Alexander's life :)

Yep. I saw it on cinemas too, so many hours wasted for me and everyone else in there. It's really too long (3 hours) without being exciting at all.
 

JB1981

Member
i thought it did a great job. he was a complex dude with all sorts of shit going on in his head.

what the Final Cut does is sparse the past and present between eachother really really well.
Yes it tells stories from the past that inform the present in parallel. Yes Jolies's accent is weird but the relaionship still works quite well.
 
Its been so long since I saw it. I went to the theater with my girlfriend at the time. She passed out by the time they got to India and I was getting bored too, so we got out of there. The main criticism I had was it just needed to be edited down, too damn long and it really dragged in parts.
 

bengraven

Member
Best friend from childhood named his kid "Alexander".

"That's retarded," his sister said.

He was named after Alexander the Great, who conquored most of the known world.

"Lol, but he was gay," his sister replied. "You named your kid after a homo and now your kid will be a fag."



Somehow I don't think she liked the movie Alexander.

I heard the homosexual sections were a big turn off to people who expected a buff Conan like Alexander.
 

Spire

Subconscious Brolonging
I've only seen the Final Cut and it was pretty fucking shitty. It's good for a laugh but that's about it.
 
I have no opinion on this movie and will check it out but wanted to say its nice seeing a topic that obviously took a little time to think out write compared to the 2 sentence ones I've seen lately. good job.
 

CloudWolf

Member
I saw it on tv a few years back, I remember not liking it at all. And I liked Troy at the time, so my standard wasn't high at all.
 

Jarlaxle

Member
I absolutely hated this movie. The only reason to ever watch this again would be for Rosario Dawson. Jesus Fucking Christ!
 

Guzim

Member
Best friend from childhood named his kid "Alexander".

"That's retarded," his sister said.

He was named after Alexander the Great, who conquored most of the known world.

"Lol, but he was gay," his sister replied. "You named your kid after a homo and now your kid will be a fag."



Somehow I don't think she liked the movie Alexander.

I heard the homosexual sections were a big turn off to people who expected a buff Conan like Alexander.

What the hell is wrong with people?
 

bengraven

Member
What the hell is wrong with people?

I've lived in the rural North and the rural South and despite being 2000 miles away and occasionally voting for different sides, they all share the same thought:

Intelligence and history are fukin lame lol
 

Keen

Aliens ate my babysitter
All I remember was that it was long as shit! And that the screen went red at one point, I think.

Not interested in seeing again.


edit: not bothered by teh gay at all.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
Movie was so damn arduous and boring to watch and I generally love classic history. Studied Latin in high school and I've always had an interest in Alexander the Great, but I really hated this.
 
All I remember from this movie is Rosario Dawson. God damn.

That was the best part of the original cut. I was one of the few (because of how badly that movie bombed) who was in the theatre opening weekend. That was a long, LONG movie to sit through. If I find it cheap, I might give it a shot again.
 

JB1981

Member
Almost finished the documentary filmed by Stone's son. One of the most candid docus I've ever seen. There are real great conversations with Stone throughout and you see how he directs and treats everyone on set, cast and crew alike. You see the enormous difficulty making a movie like this is. Makes you appreciate the process of filmmaking all the more.
 
Best friend from childhood named his kid "Alexander".

"That's retarded," his sister said.

He was named after Alexander the Great, who conquored most of the known world.

"Lol, but he was gay," his sister replied. "You named your kid after a homo and now your kid will be a fag."



Somehow I don't think she liked the movie Alexander.

I heard the homosexual sections were a big turn off to people who expected a buff Conan like Alexander.
While I didn´t mind the homosexual parts and would actually prefer that historical figures be portraied as they actually were. I though in this movie they were a bit forced.

The one scene in game of thrones felt a bit more realistic and not Stone´s poltical beliefs being thrown at me.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Sounds like they did a proper cut similar to Kingdom of Heaven director's cut which restructured the story and fleshed out a lot of characters to turn into an epic movie from an average cinema version.

I watched Alexander regular and I thought it was pretty bad. Sounds like I have to give the redone version a try.
 

JB1981

Member
While I didn´t mind the homosexual parts and would actually prefer that historical figures be portraied as they actually were. I though in this movie they were a bit forced.

The one scene in game of thrones felt a bit more realistic and not Stone´s poltical beliefs being thrown at me.
I find the scenes between Alexander and Hephastion to be very sincere and actually moving in some ways.
 

kinoki

Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
I've always liked this movie. It felt alot more creative than other entries into the genre at the time and I enjoyed everything about it. The problems that I discovered later was that I feel that he didn't break the formula enough for it to be worth it. Still miles better than the original cut of Kingdom of Heaven, Troy or Braveheart but not in the same league as Gladiator.
 

Arment

Member
Never knew people hated this movie. I like it. I'll watch the Final Cut now. I hope it's as good the Kingdom of Heaven director's cut.
 

Samara

Member
I remember sighing at this movie all the time. Angelina was over the top, and the scene with Rosario; ha! WTF was this hissing bullshit?
 
I think its a fantastic film, and have about 4 different versions of it. OP is right though, the final cut is an absolutely fantastic film. Stone treats the source with respect and presents it in probably the most history authentic way for any Hollywood blockbuster. I absolutely recommend it.
 

Man

Member
I saw the normal cut of this film yesterday. The first and last time. Just non inspiring in every way. No stand out performances.
Vangelis scoring it was my main draw but it wasn't particularly great either. I liked the main theme played during intro/credits.
 

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
Kind of OT but I don't want to make a whole thread for it:

Gladiator - Theatrical Cut or Extended Edition? I haven't seen the film in maybe 7 or so years, so I'm basically going in fresh here.
 

Dead

well not really...yet
Kind of OT but I don't want to make a whole thread for it:

Gladiator - Theatrical Cut or Extended Edition? I haven't seen the film in maybe 7 or so years, so I'm basically going in fresh here.
Theatrical cut is still Ridley's definitive version.

The extended is basically a glorfied special feature. Some of the re-instated scenes are nice, but none are necessary and the pacing suffers.
 

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
Theatrical cut is still Ridley's definitive version.

The extended is basically a glorfied special feature. Some of the re-instated scenes are nice, but none are necessary and the pacing suffers.

Alright, thanks. I'll go with the Theatrical then.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Theatrical cut is still Ridley's definitive version.

The extended is basically a glorfied special feature. Some of the re-instated scenes are nice, but none are necessary and the pacing suffers.

The additions only increase the runtime like about 20 minutes or so. I thought it added a lot of interesting information and background to the characters.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom