Seraphinianus
Banned
If you're a gamer who can appreciate a deep, challenging, intelligent, and intriguing game and haven't played this, read on. Forget about the "JRPG" genre label and hear me out. Have you made an exception for a game in a genre you didn't like? Consider doing it here for JRPGs. Here's a review/discussion thread...why now? It's Sunday, I'm inspired, and the game feels a bit buried under the Persona series. The "Shin Megami Tensei" brand may even be so intertwined with Persona that people might mistake Nocturne for a game in the same vein...an ironic fate considering "SMT" was added to Persona (and the less popular Digital Devil Saga and Devil Summoner games) for marketing purposes in the U.S. That said, here's my "Persona is good" disclaimer: Persona is pretty alright. Anyway, consider this a PSA for JRPG and non-JRPG fans alike.
System: PS2 (PSN in the future? The recent release of Persona 3 Fes says "probably")
Price/rarity: I can't think of an atlus game that has been reprinted more times. It's finally at the point where new and used copies are plentiful (online) and around the $20 point. A first edition with the OST might cost you a few bucks more.
I heard this game is tough. Do I need a strategy guide? For some things, a qualified yes. If you want to go a specific moral/reason path in the game, a guide will help. The true demon ending (not the "true" ending, there isn't one...this is just one of a couple endings) has some funky quirks that you probably won't figure out on your own. Some of the dungeons are labyrinthine with pitfalls, so you'll want a guide if you want to get through as quickly as possible or are not fond of figuring these kinds of things out yourself. There's an official guide that will cost you a pretty penny for a perfect condition one and still above $20 for a worn one. As usual, gamefaqs has the game fully dissected for free. Overall, the game is not unplayable without a guide by any means...it just depends on what you want to cheese through to shave off a few hours.
There hasn't been a JRPG like it before or since. Personally, I think this is the pinnacle of standard JRPG gameplay: exploration via world map, dungeons, random turn based battles, and a long, involved story. Unlike many games, all these elements are nicely balanced, with the emphasis being on gameplay, coupled with a story that isn't overbearing via absurd exposition. The story is kept simple, though intriguing enough to make you thirsty for more.
If a non-JRPG gamer asked me which JRPG to play that has a genuinely interesting story and good gameplay, this is the first one I'd recommend. And it's one of the few I could recommend that doesn't have some kind of awkward stigma attached to it, whether it's a high school sim, Final Fantasy bullshit story about crystals, awful dialogue/characters, complete predictability via a story that has been told in various forms a million times, etc. Almost everything about Nocturne goes counter to the tripe we've been fed before and since its release, with shamefully few exceptions.
I started playing it again yesterday and I found it's very relevant to the current state of JRPGs-- more JRPG devs should consider its general strengths. When I first played it in 2004, it was just a cool game, but now it's practically defined by what isn't in it, as the genre has just about stagnated since then (once again, with a few exceptions.) Whether it's a replay or your first time, there will never not be a good time to play it. Though there are a few anachronisms in the face of modern game development, this game is fairly timeless.
The story is simple. You're a regular high schooler for about the first ten minutes of the game. Then the world goes through the "Conception" which curls *just* Tokyo up into a ball for some reason and kills just about everyone, destroying human society. You and two of your buddies and a handful of other humans are spared, but you are reborn as a demon with rad neon green tats and a horn sticking out of your neck. You navigate the new Tokyo, punching demons in the face, recruiting them through conversation and bribery, and deciding how to rebuild the new world.
The world is a clean slate after the Conception and all the human-built power structures and culture are gone, so somebody has to take over by imposing their will. Some games have you kill *the* god at the end, this game has you killing all the gods and their subordinates along the way. Some gods or major religious/spiritual/mythological figures are just normal enemy encounters. Everything from buddhism to christianity to norse mythology is represented here. It's like a smash bros roster of various holy things people believe in...probably sans Islam (i'm not 100% sure on this.) [Update via randomkid: "All the archangels in the game are recognized by the Islamic tradition (just slightly different names, like Jibril=Gabriel), and I think Nocturne also has Allat, one of the three Meccan goddesses mentioned in the Qu'ran."] If you've played a post-SMT3 SMT game, you'll recognize many familiar faces, but notice that they actually belong in this world and aren't just cool models to reuse to make game development cheaper. This is the base that other PS2/PSP SMT games are built from, though the SMT series has been around forever and has always used a mish-mash of these kinds of figures.
The protagonist is silent, a blank slate with an empty heart, and the story portion of the game revolves around making alignment choices when prompted to answer philosophical questions.
And punching demons in the face. And recruiting other demons to punch their demon friends in the face. The world's fate is pretty much determined by who can punch who in the face harder and the person who punches hardest gets to impose their philosophical viewpoint on the world. Your protagonist, along with a few other major players, are all vying for this glorious position. But other nefarious forces are pulling strings from behind the scenes...along the way, you'll learn of their true intentions.
There's a distinct lack of crystals and cumbersome synonyms/nouns in this game. There are a couple japanese words for various things throughout the game world, but you are actually told what these things are in-game, which is nice. They are also key elements of the game world, so they are repeated often enough to remember what they are and why they are important.
The presentation is perfect, in my opinion. The world is desolate and lacking in manuscripts, voice recordings, and boatloads of NPCs. You are alone and it's nice when you run into NPCs. It's not as desolate as a -Souls game, but it's in that ballpark. There are few cutscenes. All this just makes you want to learn more. Exposition is a treat in the game and you always get the right amount to keep you going. It's also not marred by terrible VA, text only.
The gameplay is very much a JRPG with its own unique twists. You navigate the new Tokyo in a somewhat linear fashion, things like sewers and abandoned buildings are your dungeons. There's also a separate area called the Labyrinth of Amala, which is both maze-like and brutal. The tougher parts of the game take place here, with some of the major story elements playing out within its walls. Navigation is aided by fast-traveling via save points, locations are added as you find them.
Along the way, you'll be fighting in many random battles. There are a lot of them, but they are fast, there are several battle music themes that rotate, and they are fun in an engaging, strategic way that all other JRPGs aren't. The press-turn battle system gives you a chance to attack per character. You gain an extra chance with a critical attack or by using something the enemy is weak to. You lose 2 chances by missing an attack/using something the enemy reflects or absorbs. The enemies are also on the press-turn system, which makes things pretty dang scary when the AI "figures out" your weak points. You can pass a turn, which takes away "half" a turn, but allows you to strategize and control the fight's progression. You'll go on auto-pilot for easier enemies, but balanced/difficult fights are very engaging and rewarding. Though sometimes, an enemy casts death on your protagonist and it's a big eye-rolling game over. You can protect against this, but it'll happen every once in a while. Save often! Ironically, this is the first implementation this battle system, which was used in subsequent SMT games, but it's still the deepest and best implementation.
Your party is made of demons you recruit along the way through conversation: talking to enemies in battle and answering their questions, bribing them with stuff, or by having a fellow demon convince them. Or you recruit them with fusion: going to a special shop where you combine two demons into a stronger one with a selection of powers from each of the demons you used.
To go along with the story, actively engaging with NPCs is actually an enjoyable task and key to learning about the world. They're rarely far out of the way. If they aren't telling you the story, they're telling you something goofy/interesting that sheds light on the new world, giving you an item, or attacking you. They can be pretty funny too. All this is kind of optional--they'll tell you where to go next, but the overworld is fairly linear, so it's not too tough to figure out on your own.
That's about all there is to the basic gameplay elements. They stay fresh throughout the game and go much deeper than I've described here. Much of it seems designed to help your long hours in the game go by smoothly...something every JRPG dev needs to strongly consider. From the quick battles to rotating music themes to prevent music fatigue to fast traveling, it's just a pleasure. And all of it is explained in game, which is nice, though the explanations can be a bit cryptic. Regardless, nothing difficult to learn here, but it's still a challenging game.
Here's a list of key things about the game to fill in what I've written and to short cut a possible bible of a post:
--Yosuga - survival of the fittest
--Shijima - value of order/perfect logic
--Musubi - hyper-individualistic thought
--Neutrality/Chaos/Destruction/True Demon - The catch all that doesn't follow a specific set of answers. Maybe you just want to take a hands-off approach and stay neutral, maybe you want to fully embrace demonhood and go on punching weaker things in the face forever.
Of course, we've all been burned by a "best JRPG ever" recommendation, so here are some elements to consider [Updated with some tips]:
Useful gameplay resources. This game is tough and won't really hold your hand but it all flows nicely in game. It's not impossible and you can't really get stuck [that i know of], so don't give up. It's one of those games where if you've hit a wall, there just isn't something you're considering, and it's most likely a wrongly equipped magatama or a need for demons with a particular skill/spell/strength/weakness. This all might seem overwhelming, but it flows well in game. If it just sounds like bullshit, they make games that actually jerk you off with no real input required on your end now. Pre-order your copy today! I kid a little, but like most difficult games that are also awesome games, the difficulty is generally overstated and can be overcome by playing smart. It would not be as fun without the requirement of using your brain.
Best general advice about the game:
You're not going for party members like "this nekomata is gonna be my best fire caster!" At first, it will be like that, but diversity in skills is what you want to aim for. The fusion system is made for this.Catch 'em all!
If you're stuck on a boss:
Gamefaqs: maps, bestiary, fusion chart (win users, check below for a prog for this), skill/spells list, walkthroughs, how to get Dante, and more:
Suffixes on buff/debuff spells:
Demon fusion outcome program:
About that first pixie:
You get a uber-pixie at some point triggered late in the game with good skills. The alternative is ditching her and getting a magatama that you can buy later on...not a good trade off.
Screens:
Huge, weird bosses:
Punch EVERYTHING in the face:
Liked a boss? Fuse it to join your party:
It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again:
"Mysterious" man:
Your avatar:
When you see it...
he might have a stinger for a dick, but he's not lying...
A chance to lie:
Ok, I lied, your first demon is a little moé:
Complete OST Youtube playlist (some annoying minutes of silence at the end of tracks):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncEmAJYA13U&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLDABB8FBE123392F0
Discuss!
System: PS2 (PSN in the future? The recent release of Persona 3 Fes says "probably")
Price/rarity: I can't think of an atlus game that has been reprinted more times. It's finally at the point where new and used copies are plentiful (online) and around the $20 point. A first edition with the OST might cost you a few bucks more.
I heard this game is tough. Do I need a strategy guide? For some things, a qualified yes. If you want to go a specific moral/reason path in the game, a guide will help. The true demon ending (not the "true" ending, there isn't one...this is just one of a couple endings) has some funky quirks that you probably won't figure out on your own. Some of the dungeons are labyrinthine with pitfalls, so you'll want a guide if you want to get through as quickly as possible or are not fond of figuring these kinds of things out yourself. There's an official guide that will cost you a pretty penny for a perfect condition one and still above $20 for a worn one. As usual, gamefaqs has the game fully dissected for free. Overall, the game is not unplayable without a guide by any means...it just depends on what you want to cheese through to shave off a few hours.
There hasn't been a JRPG like it before or since. Personally, I think this is the pinnacle of standard JRPG gameplay: exploration via world map, dungeons, random turn based battles, and a long, involved story. Unlike many games, all these elements are nicely balanced, with the emphasis being on gameplay, coupled with a story that isn't overbearing via absurd exposition. The story is kept simple, though intriguing enough to make you thirsty for more.
If a non-JRPG gamer asked me which JRPG to play that has a genuinely interesting story and good gameplay, this is the first one I'd recommend. And it's one of the few I could recommend that doesn't have some kind of awkward stigma attached to it, whether it's a high school sim, Final Fantasy bullshit story about crystals, awful dialogue/characters, complete predictability via a story that has been told in various forms a million times, etc. Almost everything about Nocturne goes counter to the tripe we've been fed before and since its release, with shamefully few exceptions.
I started playing it again yesterday and I found it's very relevant to the current state of JRPGs-- more JRPG devs should consider its general strengths. When I first played it in 2004, it was just a cool game, but now it's practically defined by what isn't in it, as the genre has just about stagnated since then (once again, with a few exceptions.) Whether it's a replay or your first time, there will never not be a good time to play it. Though there are a few anachronisms in the face of modern game development, this game is fairly timeless.
The story is simple. You're a regular high schooler for about the first ten minutes of the game. Then the world goes through the "Conception" which curls *just* Tokyo up into a ball for some reason and kills just about everyone, destroying human society. You and two of your buddies and a handful of other humans are spared, but you are reborn as a demon with rad neon green tats and a horn sticking out of your neck. You navigate the new Tokyo, punching demons in the face, recruiting them through conversation and bribery, and deciding how to rebuild the new world.
The world is a clean slate after the Conception and all the human-built power structures and culture are gone, so somebody has to take over by imposing their will. Some games have you kill *the* god at the end, this game has you killing all the gods and their subordinates along the way. Some gods or major religious/spiritual/mythological figures are just normal enemy encounters. Everything from buddhism to christianity to norse mythology is represented here. It's like a smash bros roster of various holy things people believe in...probably sans Islam (i'm not 100% sure on this.) [Update via randomkid: "All the archangels in the game are recognized by the Islamic tradition (just slightly different names, like Jibril=Gabriel), and I think Nocturne also has Allat, one of the three Meccan goddesses mentioned in the Qu'ran."] If you've played a post-SMT3 SMT game, you'll recognize many familiar faces, but notice that they actually belong in this world and aren't just cool models to reuse to make game development cheaper. This is the base that other PS2/PSP SMT games are built from, though the SMT series has been around forever and has always used a mish-mash of these kinds of figures.
The protagonist is silent, a blank slate with an empty heart, and the story portion of the game revolves around making alignment choices when prompted to answer philosophical questions.
And punching demons in the face. And recruiting other demons to punch their demon friends in the face. The world's fate is pretty much determined by who can punch who in the face harder and the person who punches hardest gets to impose their philosophical viewpoint on the world. Your protagonist, along with a few other major players, are all vying for this glorious position. But other nefarious forces are pulling strings from behind the scenes...along the way, you'll learn of their true intentions.
There's a distinct lack of crystals and cumbersome synonyms/nouns in this game. There are a couple japanese words for various things throughout the game world, but you are actually told what these things are in-game, which is nice. They are also key elements of the game world, so they are repeated often enough to remember what they are and why they are important.
The presentation is perfect, in my opinion. The world is desolate and lacking in manuscripts, voice recordings, and boatloads of NPCs. You are alone and it's nice when you run into NPCs. It's not as desolate as a -Souls game, but it's in that ballpark. There are few cutscenes. All this just makes you want to learn more. Exposition is a treat in the game and you always get the right amount to keep you going. It's also not marred by terrible VA, text only.
The gameplay is very much a JRPG with its own unique twists. You navigate the new Tokyo in a somewhat linear fashion, things like sewers and abandoned buildings are your dungeons. There's also a separate area called the Labyrinth of Amala, which is both maze-like and brutal. The tougher parts of the game take place here, with some of the major story elements playing out within its walls. Navigation is aided by fast-traveling via save points, locations are added as you find them.
Along the way, you'll be fighting in many random battles. There are a lot of them, but they are fast, there are several battle music themes that rotate, and they are fun in an engaging, strategic way that all other JRPGs aren't. The press-turn battle system gives you a chance to attack per character. You gain an extra chance with a critical attack or by using something the enemy is weak to. You lose 2 chances by missing an attack/using something the enemy reflects or absorbs. The enemies are also on the press-turn system, which makes things pretty dang scary when the AI "figures out" your weak points. You can pass a turn, which takes away "half" a turn, but allows you to strategize and control the fight's progression. You'll go on auto-pilot for easier enemies, but balanced/difficult fights are very engaging and rewarding. Though sometimes, an enemy casts death on your protagonist and it's a big eye-rolling game over. You can protect against this, but it'll happen every once in a while. Save often! Ironically, this is the first implementation this battle system, which was used in subsequent SMT games, but it's still the deepest and best implementation.
Your party is made of demons you recruit along the way through conversation: talking to enemies in battle and answering their questions, bribing them with stuff, or by having a fellow demon convince them. Or you recruit them with fusion: going to a special shop where you combine two demons into a stronger one with a selection of powers from each of the demons you used.
To go along with the story, actively engaging with NPCs is actually an enjoyable task and key to learning about the world. They're rarely far out of the way. If they aren't telling you the story, they're telling you something goofy/interesting that sheds light on the new world, giving you an item, or attacking you. They can be pretty funny too. All this is kind of optional--they'll tell you where to go next, but the overworld is fairly linear, so it's not too tough to figure out on your own.
That's about all there is to the basic gameplay elements. They stay fresh throughout the game and go much deeper than I've described here. Much of it seems designed to help your long hours in the game go by smoothly...something every JRPG dev needs to strongly consider. From the quick battles to rotating music themes to prevent music fatigue to fast traveling, it's just a pleasure. And all of it is explained in game, which is nice, though the explanations can be a bit cryptic. Regardless, nothing difficult to learn here, but it's still a challenging game.
Here's a list of key things about the game to fill in what I've written and to short cut a possible bible of a post:
- no long cutscenes
- no dating/high school sim
- No awkward "slice of life" crap involving a naive protagonist getting hit on by the token hot female party member
- Somewhat unpredictable and interesting story.
- Multiple endings and new features on the second quest for replayability.
- Long ass game, but it's almost all gameplay. You're looking at more than 40, 50, 60, 70 hours, depending on all that you do. I forget exactly, but it's looong. Long, but it gets you hooked.
- rotating battle themes
- punching demons in the face: all of them, from a common ground slime to the main deities of most major religions...if there's a religious figure you want to punch in the face, it's probably in this game
- Battle system revolving around earning/losing turns, rock/paper/scissors with elements/attack types, and demon recruitment
- Opaque alignment system, chosen through simple Q+A with demons, but with no "+10 EVIL" pop up to allow you to manipulate it. Sometimes you get choices, but they don't affect your alignment. These have varying effects on gameplay, but their main function is to determine the ending you get. It's all quite morally gray and designed to make you choose with your heart/mind, rather than setting you on a certain track with all kinds of game feedback to reinforce it. In short, it doesn't hammer you over the head at all:
--Yosuga - survival of the fittest
--Shijima - value of order/perfect logic
--Musubi - hyper-individualistic thought
--Neutrality/Chaos/Destruction/True Demon - The catch all that doesn't follow a specific set of answers. Maybe you just want to take a hands-off approach and stay neutral, maybe you want to fully embrace demonhood and go on punching weaker things in the face forever.
- tough but (usually) fair difficulty
- Dante is randomly there and a cool familiar face to have around
- the world ends within 10 minutes of starting. No world-saving plot! It's all about how you would rebuild the world.
- story mostly told through conversing with NPCs
- battles are quick and fun
- No VA - I can't be the only one who sees this as a positive.
- Very little "anime" feel - it's clearly a japanese game, takes place in Tokyo, but with a unique identity to call its own
- Serious, but not too serious - lots of genuinely funny moments with NPCs.
Of course, we've all been burned by a "best JRPG ever" recommendation, so here are some elements to consider [Updated with some tips]:
- Somewhat odd camera system controlled by L1+R1 instead of the right analog
- Occasional bullshit insta-kills on your protagonist (game is over when he dies). There will be lots of "I rage quit" posts. Just gotta suck it up sometimes. Do not start on hard mode, it's difficult even on normal.
Extralite says:There's two type of death spells, holy and demon, but you can defend against both with lowered percentage or perfectly with later skills. The trick is to not let those pass by or replace them with other ones, even though you have to sacrifice two of your 8 permanent ability slots for them.
Of course on an enemy iniative encounter, if all of the opponents decide to attack the protagonist, you'll still die. Rare thing to happen on normal difficulty though. - Lots of random battles, though you have a certain amount of control over this later on in the game. Very few safe spots free from battles, not even on the overworld map.
- You may feel the need to grind a few levels when you get stuck on a harder boss
Extralite says: I found that trying to find a demon who can exploit the boss's week spot or can seal their attacks works much better than grinding as levels don't mean much in this game. - Some surprises that can mess you up like pitfalls in dungeons (which are marked on your map after you trigger them) or trap treasure chests.
- No on-screen map and environments that can look a bit samey, leading you to refer to the map screen quite a bit.
- Some special side-things and items require a guide. You may also want a guide for the Labyrinth of Amala if mazes, traps, and pitfalls piss you off.
- Fusion can be cumbersome if you're trying to get specific skills for a new demon.
- Vocoder vox + techno/metal mix battle themes might not be for everyone
- PS2/PCSX only so far. On the plus side, the stylized cel-shaded graphics will always hold up, aside from aliasing. Looks great on my plasma with component cables.
- Some audio/music sounds badly compressed.
- Spell names can be confusing to learn at first (see below)
Useful gameplay resources. This game is tough and won't really hold your hand but it all flows nicely in game. It's not impossible and you can't really get stuck [that i know of], so don't give up. It's one of those games where if you've hit a wall, there just isn't something you're considering, and it's most likely a wrongly equipped magatama or a need for demons with a particular skill/spell/strength/weakness. This all might seem overwhelming, but it flows well in game. If it just sounds like bullshit, they make games that actually jerk you off with no real input required on your end now. Pre-order your copy today! I kid a little, but like most difficult games that are also awesome games, the difficulty is generally overstated and can be overcome by playing smart. It would not be as fun without the requirement of using your brain.
Best general advice about the game:
You're not going for party members like "this nekomata is gonna be my best fire caster!" At first, it will be like that, but diversity in skills is what you want to aim for. The fusion system is made for this.
If you're stuck on a boss:
Gamefaqs: maps, bestiary, fusion chart (win users, check below for a prog for this), skill/spells list, walkthroughs, how to get Dante, and more:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/582958-shin-megami-tensei-nocturne/faqs
I highly recommend the skill/spells list at least. It will come in handy for a while until you learn their names/effects.
I highly recommend the skill/spells list at least. It will come in handy for a while until you learn their names/effects.
Suffixes on buff/debuff spells:
Demon fusion outcome program:
About that first pixie:
You get a uber-pixie at some point triggered late in the game with good skills. The alternative is ditching her and getting a magatama that you can buy later on...not a good trade off.
Screens:
Huge, weird bosses:
Punch EVERYTHING in the face:
Liked a boss? Fuse it to join your party:
It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again:
"Mysterious" man:
Your avatar:
When you see it...
he might have a stinger for a dick, but he's not lying...
A chance to lie:
Ok, I lied, your first demon is a little moé:
Complete OST Youtube playlist (some annoying minutes of silence at the end of tracks):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncEmAJYA13U&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLDABB8FBE123392F0
Discuss!
