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Some youtube dude: half of Doom 3 BFG's Lost Mission is Doom 3 maps reorganized
- Thread starter angular graphics
- Start date
Jawmuncher
Member
Reminds me of when you're playing a Singleplayer game and then when you go to MP some of the maps there are exactly ripped from one another.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
You're not crazy.
Well id software is an underwhelming developer nowadays so Im not entirely sure why everyone is surprised.
So, Rage underperforms, and to test the waters for Doom4 their answer is to... copy paste boring office sections as 'new' levels, release a 'new' version of the game that is worse than the old one in a variety of ways, remove Doom 3 original from online sales, and...
id, what's wrong with you?
id, what's wrong with you?
StoppedInTracks
Member
BFG is a dumbed down version of the PC version of Doom 3. It features: lack of flashlight projected shadows and lower resolution textures.
yes, id had to cut down some graphical effects from an 8 year old PC game for it to run on this gen consoles.
#canyoubelieveit
They're asking for money in exchange for 8 year old, rehashed assets. Grow a spine.
angular graphics
Banned
Nope. They said this is brand new content designed in 2012. "Lost Mission" might imply this is old, discarded, content, but that's not the case, according to id.
Ban Puncher
Member
To be fair the shadowing had to be redone because of a patent Creative Labs holds over the original 'Carmack's Reverse' code that was used in Doom 3 vanilla.
But that doesn't excuse BFG from being a gargantuan sack of shit.
Not id anymore. Bethesda.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
I was watching a Let's Play of BFG not too long ago, and while I was watching it, I remember commenting that a few of the levels looked very similar to those in the main game, including a couple shown in the OP.
Guess I was right.
What happened? Did Bethesda mandate the BFG edition so people would remember Doom exists before Doom 4 comes out? Did they tell id "Hey, you've gotta make a new campaign so people have a reason to buy the game every single one of them already owns"? Was there a time pressure element involved?
The more I see and hear about Doom 3: BFG, the bigger a disaster it reveals itself to be.
Guess I was right.
What happened? Did Bethesda mandate the BFG edition so people would remember Doom exists before Doom 4 comes out? Did they tell id "Hey, you've gotta make a new campaign so people have a reason to buy the game every single one of them already owns"? Was there a time pressure element involved?
The more I see and hear about Doom 3: BFG, the bigger a disaster it reveals itself to be.
Okay, that's less okay then. I was under the impression those were levels that got cut during development.
plagiarize
Banned
they added a really good (and optional) motion blur though.
Carmack says they originally took out the flashlight shadows for performance, and then left them out because they felt it looked better without them. personally I agree that it looks better.
Doom 3 BFG looks better than Doom 3 vanilla... but nowhere near as good as Doom 3 with mods. shrug.
StoppedInTracks
Member
What?
That is... very interesting - can you post some link? I mean I associate Creative Labs with audio technology not shadowing. There is no point to disbelieve you by the way, I would just like to know the details of this scenario.
That's actually untrue. The texture resolution was not changed, just the compression method. They are exactly the same resolution.
Also, I think you need to recognize that the "current" consoles were released not long after Doom 3 and other id Tech 4 ports to those consoles were quite poor in comparison.
The original flashlight shadows lacked proper depth in that they didn't appear to cast properly on the environment and would appear the same regardless of distance from a wall or other surface. With the new flashlight placement it may have looked even worse.
Kind of like this...
Does highlight how cutting edge consoles are never a match for a current decent-to-high end PC around at the time of release, it just holds an advantage for awhile due to specializing and that people developing for the console have no worries about being compatible on older hardware unless it's meant to be multiplatform on older systems too. Actually, I think it showed even less this generation despite having the most dramatic losses on new consoles, really does make me wonder if they'd raise the costs of next gen consoles to a gross level just to seemingly have a jump.
THEN AGAIN a lot of this is from focusing on 60 FPS. Much as I like it they may've been able to do a more faithful, genuinely better looking game if they sacrificed that goal and settled for 30 FPS.
I believe Prey came out OK. Quake IV, on the other hand, is a textbook example of a shitty launch rush job.
angular graphics
Banned
Do keep in mind the maps are torn apart and reassembled. Thus resulting in different lighting and/or ambient effects. But yeah, it all looks cleaner in original Doom 3.
Which is practically the case of Doom 3's multiplayer maps.
I've not played Doom 3 or BFG, but I like projected shadows in Uncharted. I'd have imagined that in a game like Doom 3, the movement of shadows could add to the tension and distract you or mask enemy movement? Or were they just badly done?
It's not the main selling point of the BFG edition. It's 3 hour long side stuff.
StoppedInTracks
Member
They took them out for performance reasons first. Even if they would to put them in again - there is no saying what else would have to suffer. Would they hit 60 fps (on consoles) with flashlight projected shadows enabled? Who knows besides Carmack.
Keep in mind that high-end PCs available when Doom 3 was released could NOT run the game at 1280x720 while holding 60 fps.
Also, Prey did turn out OK, but it topped out at 30 fps and did slowdown. Quake Wars and Brink also ran decently well with a reasonably steady 30 fps. Doom 3 is the only game to target 60 fps on consoles. The engine isn't well suited to the design of the current consoles.
id hasn't been a top developer in years. They've seemed confused since the release of Doom 3.
Ban Puncher
Member
Under the section Depth Fail;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_volume
Carmack announced at Quakecon last year that there were licencing issues resulting from Creative Lab's hold on the patent so he essentially had to re-write the code. Poke around online and read up some more if you're interested - it's actually kinda fascinating.
Let's be real for a minute here, the consoles are almost as old as the game, and by and large, in its original state at launch, it probably would have bad trouble running at 30fps, let alone 60.
plagiarize
Banned
@idBrianHarris said that.
okay. a different iD developer said it
on topic, aren't a lot of the elements in the levels in the original game 'cut and paste' too? it makes sense for an off world facility to have a modular design.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
No one will notice or care because the entire level set is shit from top to bottom.
I mean if you really want to nitpick, I don't think they made a single new asset for the levels.
I mean if you really want to nitpick, I don't think they made a single new asset for the levels.
It's more Doom-like than the original game, which is a good thing.
LiquidSolid
Member
Bethesda is what's wrong with them.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
You mean in the way it makes non-sensical use of the assets? Because the level design isn't anything like Doom 1/2
Quake 3 is the worst when it comes to this.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Just give us Doom 4 you lazy bastards!
They're very clearly working on it. They just released a major project last year (Rage)!
Glass Rebel
Member
so if I own DOOM 3 + Resurrection of Evil on Steam there's no reason to get this?
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
No reason at all really. zDoom destroys the ghetto ports of D1/2 and D3BFG is losing something for each thing it gains.
In the way you have freedom to manuever and shoot, and encounter design. The level design is linear but more open which is better (than Doom 3).
It is, unless you really value flashlight shadows. With the source release it'll get mod support too.
Shame it was a snore-fest.
Glass Rebel
Member
that's pretty sad but convenient (and cheaper) for me so I'm not complaining even though it's a shitty situation for people who bought the thing :/
Rage was great, shame you couldn't enjoy it.
Rage was great, shame you couldn't enjoy it.
Hm?
Since you're asking rather than telling I'm assuming you detected the joke.
Talk about Quake 3 depresses me since I don't know if id has it in them to make another great Quake game.
StoppedInTracks
Member
I have no expectations for Doom 4 unless it is a next-gen game.