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Naked Snake · Mar 19, 2013

This guy has been blowing my mind recently with the achievements of SpaceX. Now I learn that he's also behind the Tesla car, and SolarCity... I'm baffled by his badassery.

A really great interview with him at TED, must watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgKWPdJWuBQ

If you don't wanna watch the whole thing, at least see the last 9 minutes starting here: http://youtu.be/IgKWPdJWuBQ?t=11m58s

RoyalFool · Mar 19, 2013

Isn't he payrolling it all from his Paypal money?

Acheron · Mar 19, 2013

I think he's just a name and a face for the Solar City guys.

But he's definitely using his money for cool ideas, and he'll be worth billions more if they pan out.

Naked Snake · Mar 19, 2013

RoyalFool said:
Isn't he payrolling it all from his Paypal money?

So?

Guevara · Mar 19, 2013

Personally I hate the idea of private commercial spacecraft. We should be taxing the shit out of billionaires like Elon and using it to fund NASA. He got lucky, but he's at least using the money on interesting things.

ElectricBlue187 · Mar 19, 2013

He has neat ideas but none of the exciting ones have worked this far. I believe he was the one who said "if you want to be a millionaire, invest a few billion into space flight"

duderon · Mar 19, 2013

Guevara said:
Personally I hate the idea of private commercial spacecraft. We should be taxing the shit out of billionaires like Elon and using it to fund NASA. He got lucky, but he's at least using the money on interesting things.

So you hate better rocket production efficiency and the goal of reusable stages? Ok.

Boom Boom Pow · Mar 19, 2013

Guevara said:
Personally I hate the idea of private commercial spacecraft. We should be taxing the shit out of billionaires like Elon and using it to fund NASA. He got lucky, but he's at least using the money on interesting things.

usually, when you tax, you can't then specifically use that tax money for something

even if he's taxed, it will not go to NASA. It will go to farm subsidies

Dr.Acula · Mar 19, 2013

If you like Elon, read about his war with the NYT.

Musk

Vs.

NYT

CrocMother · Mar 19, 2013

Guevara said:
Personally I hate the idea of private commercial spacecraft. We should be taxing the shit out of billionaires like Elon and using it to fund NASA. He got lucky, but he's at least using the money on interesting things.

You want like...public space transportation?

Dreams-Visions · Mar 19, 2013

No, he's as badass as they come. A dreamer and a visionary.

RSTEIN · Mar 19, 2013

Guevara said:
Personally I hate the idea of private commercial spacecraft. We should be taxing the shit out of billionaires like Elon and using it to fund NASA. He got lucky, but he's at least using the money on interesting things.

Tax people who want to accelerate innovation and reduce costs...

then give that money to bloated, inefficient government agencies.

Sounds good.

Feroce2 · Mar 19, 2013

Guevara said:
Personally I hate the idea of private commercial spacecraft. We should be taxing the shit out of billionaires like Elon and using it to fund NASA. He got lucky, but he's at least using the money on interesting things.

And hurt the possibility of him revolutionizing space travel? Entreprenurship is the key to innovation.

Guevara · Mar 19, 2013

RSTEIN said:
Tax people who want to accelerate innovation and reduce costs...

then give that money to bloated, inefficient government agencies.

Sounds good.

The government got us to the moon and now mars. Oh yeah and DARPA created the internet.

Private investment got us instagram

Jezbollah · Mar 19, 2013

I think he's too ahead of his time re Telsa (the battery + charging technology to make it viable just doesnt exist), but his work with SpaceX is outstanding.

AstroNut325 · Mar 19, 2013

Dreams-Visions said:
No, he's as badass as they come. A dreamer and a visionary.

Yup. We need more people like him.

dr3upmushroom · Mar 19, 2013

Guevara said:
The government got us to the moon and now mars. Oh yeah and DARPA created the internet.

Private investment got us instagram

The evils of capitalism really get put in perspective when you consider the fact that literally the only think the private sector has produced is a social site for sharing pictures.

Neffarias_Bredd · Mar 19, 2013

He has such a great name

dragonelite · Mar 19, 2013

Dreams-Visions said:
No, he's as badass as they come. A dreamer and a visionary.

In my eyes he is not a dreamer but a someone that gets shit done.

Messypandas · Mar 19, 2013

Kim Dotcom

Something Wicked · Mar 19, 2013

Acheron said:
I think he's just a name and a face for the Solar City guys.

But he's definitely using his money for cool ideas, and he'll be worth billions more if they pan out.

That's a big "if" at this point:

Tesla Motors 4th-Quarter Loss Widens Despite Higher Revenue

...another $90 million down the drain last quarter.

Zeppu · Mar 19, 2013

dr3upmushroom said:
The evils of capitalism really get put in perspective when you consider the fact that literally the only think the private sector has produced is a social site for sharing pictures.

Didn't the private sector also produce the BetaMax..or?

So that's two things.

Acheron · Mar 19, 2013

Something Wicked said:
That's a big "if" at this point:

Tesla Motors 4th-Quarter Loss Widens Despite Higher Revenue

...another $90 million down the drain last quarter.

If it was easy everyone would be doing it. Musk and his investors think the returns will be enormous once the market turns. All VC plays lose money until they don't, at which point the big returns have already occurred.

SouthernDragon · Mar 19, 2013

RSTEIN said:
Tax people who want to accelerate innovation and reduce costs...

then give that money to bloated, inefficient government agencies.

Sounds good.

NASA is actually incredibly efficient. Government investments into blue sky technologies yield incredible returns. The investment into sequencing the human genome returned $144 for every dollar invested.

That said, Musk is doing amazing things, but he is apparently a raging asshole at times. I don't blame either side; to do what he does, you have to be a little bit crazy. Even his ex-wife stated he had "huge titanium balls" or somesuch.

Warm Machine · Mar 19, 2013

Acheron said:
If it was easy everyone would be doing it. Musk and his investors think the returns will be enormous once the market turns. All VC plays lose money until they don't, at which point the big returns have already occurred.

Yeah, someone has to do it. He has gone further than most have and has proven the viability and technology. When the price of entry drops, the market will slowly shift over. It is a forgone conclusion like CRTs to flat panels. All cars will one day be electric. I own Tesla stock because I believe in the tech and the company.

sans_pants · Mar 19, 2013

people really want to tax guys like musk that are trying to advance society? this guy is the exact opposite of the type of fat cats we should be taxing into the grave

Boudica · Mar 19, 2013

RSTEIN said:
Tax people who want to accelerate innovation and reduce costs...

then give that money to bloated, inefficient government agencies.Sounds good.

NASA is bloated...with the meager fundings they get? There is no shortage of innovations and commonly used products that are a direct result of the space program. We should be giving NASA more money, rather than trying to shrink their budget every chance we get.

jambo · Mar 19, 2013

Rocmisok said:
And hurt the possibility of him revolutionizing space travel? Entreprenurship is the key to innovation.

Not really.

When it comes to exploration, including space exploration, it is pretty much always govt funded endeavours that lead the way.

sans_pants · Mar 19, 2013

jambo said:
Not really.

When it comes to exploration, including space exploration, it is pretty much always govt funded endeavours that lead the way.

thats not what hes saying and tyson doesnt refute his point in this video

B-Dubs · Mar 19, 2013

Rocmisok said:
And hurt the possibility of him revolutionizing space travel? Entreprenurship is the key to innovation.

Who landed on the moon again?

sans_pants · Mar 19, 2013

are we seriously having this discussion? the public doesnt want to pay for space travel anymore. entrepreneurs want to take the next step for them. and instead you want to tax wealthy individuals to dump an insignificant amount of money into the general fund which wouldnt do shit for nasa's budget anyway?

Cyan · Mar 19, 2013

Zeppu said:
Didn't the private sector also produce the BetaMax..or?

So that's two things.

You're thinking of the LaserDisc.

dragonelite · Mar 19, 2013

B-Dubs said:
Who landed on the moon again?

Once can get into space im pretty sure you can also land on the moon. And get back only problem is where do you find the people.

If one thing i think companies will start invest in space to mine the astroid belt.
There are billions of $$$ worth of minerals floating out there.

/Fools dream.

SouthernDragon · Mar 19, 2013

sans_pants said:
people really want to tax guys like musk that are trying to advance society? this guy is the exact opposite of the type of fat cats we should be taxing into the grave

If the public pressed for NASA to receive more more than .6% of the annual budget, yeah.

P.S. A lot of Musk's tech is only possible thanks to the government providing a ton of research and tech free. Raising taxes on the wealthy is only asking them to pay back into a system that has yielded technology and infrastructure that makes their businesses possible.

sans_pants · Mar 19, 2013

SouthernDragon said:
If the public pressed for NASA to receive more more than .6% of the annual budget, yeah.

P.S. A lot of Musk's tech is only possible thanks to the government providing a ton of research and tech free. Raising taxes on the wealthy is only asking them to pay back into a system that has yielded technology and infrastructure that makes their businesses possible.

look guy, i understand the benefit of government innovation but to take the power out of the hands of the few individuals who actually want to make the world a better place is just foolhardy to me

Cat · Mar 19, 2013

I think he is one of the most amazing people ever. I have such a deep admiration and respect for what he does. Most people can only dream about accomplishing about just 1 of the many things he's done and continues to do. He's a visionary and makes efforts to advance the human race. Good for him (and us).

Naked Snake · Mar 19, 2013

Then there is the Hyperloop:

Hyperloop is a hypothetical mode of high-speed transportation proposed by inventor and SpaceX founder Elon Musk. Musk has envisioned the system as a 'fifth mode' of transportation, an alternative to boats, planes, cars and trains. The system would, in theory, be able to travel from downtown Los Angeles to downtown San Francisco in under 30 minutes.

Musk first announced the Hyperloop in July 2012 at a PandoDaily event in Santa Monica, CA. Details of the system are still emerging, and in September 2012, Musk likened the system to both a ground-based Concorde and a cross between a Concorde and a railgun, while noting that it has no need for rails. Musk estimated the cost of the SF-LA Hyperloop would be about $6 billion, one tenth as costly as the proposed high speed rail serving those cities. He has revealed that it is not a vacuum tunnel.

Quotes:

This system I have in mind, how would you like something that can never crash, is immune to weather, it goes 3 or 4 times faster than the bullet train... it goes an average speed of twice what an aircraft would do. You would go from downtown LA to downtown San Francisco in under 30 minutes. It would cost you much less than an air ticket than any other mode of transport. I think we could actually make it self-powering if you put solar panels on it, you generate more power than you would consume in the system. There's a way to store the power so it would run 24/7 without using batteries. Yes, this is possible, absolutely. - Elon Musk, July 12, 2012

What you want is something that never crashes, thats at least twice as fast as a plane, thats solar powered and that leaves right when you arrive, so there is no waiting for a specific departure time, Musk says. His friends claim hes had a Hyperloop technological breakthrough over the summer. Id like to talk to the governor and president about it, Musk continues. Because the $60 billion bullet train theyre proposing in California would be the slowest bullet train in the world at the highest cost per mile. Theyre going for records in all the wrong ways. The cost of the SF-LA Hyperloop would be in the $6 billion range, he says - Sept 13, 2012

Guevara · Mar 20, 2013

^what's this supposed to be even?

Naked Snake · Mar 20, 2013

Guevara said:
^what's this supposed to be even?

Nobody knows. Obviously he's keeping the details secret for now.

Battersea Power Station · Mar 20, 2013

dragonelite said:
If one thing i think companies will start invest in space to mine the astroid belt.
There are billions of $$$ worth of minerals floating out there.

/Fools dream.

Such a company exists, founded by prominent billionaires. I forget the name.

Dead Man · Mar 20, 2013

Boom Boom Pow said:
usually, when you tax, you can't then specifically use that tax money for something

even if he's taxed, it will not go to NASA. It will go to farm subsidies

Which is why the posters said what the taxes should go to. :/

AstroNut325 · Mar 20, 2013

Naked Snake said:
Then there is the Hyperloop:

Almost sounds like re-purposing his reusable rocket tech to be solar powered and personal transport.

The only way to get to SF from LA in 30 minutes is getting to low earth orbit and rocketing down to your destination from there. Almost sounds like a space elevator like system.

Naked Snake · Mar 20, 2013

AstroNut325 said:
Almost sounds like re-purposing his reusable rocket tech to be solar powered and personal transport.

The only way to get to SF from LA in 30 minutes is getting to low earth orbit and rocketing down to your destination from there. Almost sounds like a space elevator like system.

I don't see rocket tech being immune to crashes or the weather. Also he said in the interview in the OP that rockets are the only mode of transport that can't be electric powered ("there is no way around Newton's Third Law")

speculawyer · Mar 20, 2013

AstroNut325 said:
Almost sounds like re-purposing his reusable rocket tech to be solar powered and personal transport.

The only way to get to SF from LA in 30 minutes is getting to low earth orbit and rocketing down to your destination from there. Almost sounds like a space elevator like system.

Well, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, so that doesn't seem likely.

I have no idea what this hyperloop is. I want to know more.

AstroNut325 · Mar 20, 2013

Naked Snake said:
I don't see rocket tech being immune to crashes or the weather. Also he said in the interview in the OP that rockets are the only mode of transport that can't be electric powered ("there is no way around Newton's Third Law")

Yes. Which is why I said it's more like a space elevator type vision. I could be completely wrong, but there is only ONE way to move anything 500+ miles apart in 30 minutes. It has to enter the air... more specifically it has to get to LEO and come down from there. The part about not susceptible to weather is the one thing that truly puzzles me.

speculawyer said:
Well, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, so that doesn't seem likely.

I have no idea what this hyperloop is. I want to know more.

Ground transport is unlikely as you would need some sort of ground infrastructure to facilitate the travel. And setting up ground infrastructure is what costs the most. Hence the $60B price tag on the LA-SF HSR (I hate that term... it's not high speed).

Naked Snake · Mar 20, 2013

AstroNut325 said:
Yes. Which is why I said it's more like a space elevator type vision. I could be completely wrong, but there is only ONE way to move anything 500+ miles apart in 30 minutes. It has to enter the air... more specifically it has to get to LEO and come down from there. The part about not susceptible to weather is the one thing that truly puzzles me.

He talks a little bit about it here: http://youtu.be/xIDoTKMqwT4?t=13m26s

"a combination of electric and aerospace"

"a cross between a Railgun and a Concord"

Says he'd like to publish a standard design for it so that anyone in the world can use it, "like an open-source transport system"

SouthernDragon · Mar 20, 2013

sans_pants said:
look guy, i understand the benefit of government innovation but to take the power out of the hands of the few individuals who actually want to make the world a better place is just foolhardy to me

But see, it's not taking power from the few. They can still do their thing.

injurai · Mar 20, 2013

Whoa, I didn't realize he also founded SpaceX until just now. His ambition is quite inspiring.

speculawyer · Mar 20, 2013

AstroNut325 said:
Ground transport is unlikely as you would need some sort of ground infrastructure to facilitate the travel. And setting up ground infrastructure is what costs the most. Hence the $60B price tag on the LA-SF HSR (I hate that term... it's not high speed).

Well, it does say " Musk likened the system to both a ground-based Concorde" and he does talk about putting solar panels on it. So it seems pretty clear that it is "ground-based".

SRG01 · Mar 20, 2013

speculawyer said:
Well, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, so that doesn't seem likely.

I have no idea what this hyperloop is. I want to know more.

I don't really want to nitpick about this, but what really matters is the shortest time between two distances. Alternate routes may allow you to travel faster. It's essentially a calculus rates question.

So, looking at what has been said already, a mini-rocket going up and then down would definitely be faster.

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