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TechCrunch: "Xbox One is Microsoft's Spruce Goose"

H

hooijdonk17

Member
http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/25/what-games-are-xbox-one-is-microsofts-spruce-goose/

Maybe there was a time when owning living rooms made sense, but not any more. It’s almost incomprehensible to watch how singularly Microsoft seems not to acknowledge how times have changed. “Not getting it” doesn’t even begin to describe the cognitive dissonance that watches the world diverge in thousands of app-shaped directions and concludes that it only wants to be able to watch NFL while tweeting, playing Madden and racing.
Click to expand...

I never read TechCrunch before (granted I will read them from now on) but I came across this article on Flipboard, and I think it really hits and hammers the point better than any Xbox One naysayer I've read or listened to before. I haven't seen it posted before, searched and got nothing, and I really think it's worth discussing.

Before reading this, I was mostly self-assured that Xbone would fail because of its lesser specs and draconian DRM, but reflecting upon this article, I really agree that Microsoft has offered something that no one really honestly needs. Nobody really wants one device to do everything (not that it can), they just want them to do their own thing and work with each other in a smart way. It seems Microsoft is having a knee-jerk reaction to Apple by doing exactly the opposite of what they are doing (one device to rule them all instead of lots of devices that coexist in a mutual way). They are even going about doing it on the wrong display - the TV as we know it is gone, and will become irrelevant very soon. The Smart TV as we have come to learn does not need a secondary peripheral for content management.
 
T

thesuperfunk

Member
spruce-moose.jpg
 
C

ConfusedCat

Banned
The only argument i have against this is

Nobody really wants one device to do everything (not that it can)

the ipad. I remember the reaction to the ipad 'lol giant ipod touch, will never sell'

and well...
 
A

artist

Banned
ConfusedCat said:
The only argument i have against this is

Nobody really wants one device to do everything (not that it can)

the ipad. I remember the reaction to the ipad 'lol giant ipod touch, will never sell'

and well...
Click to expand...
It will sell like hotcakes.

Amazing people are saying this without knowing the price, which I think will make or break any console.
 
E

Eusis

Member
While I imagine TV will remain relevant... yeah, when I stopped to think about it (and likely saw what others pointed out) it dawned on me this is very much a 90s idea using modern tech, except the idea was fading away during the 00s and is pretty much irrelevant now. Anyone that wants similar functionality is probably going to get it via tablet, and the war for the living room effectively got overtaken by alien (tablet) invasion.

Not that I'd see the TV actually going anywhere, people still like big screens to watch stuff on with others, and play console games on and probably stream video too, but I don't know if many really want that additional functionality and not just get it on their phone or tablet. Maybe if they pulled this off with the original Xbox it'd have gone somewhere.
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
hooijdonk17 said:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/25/what-games-are-xbox-one-is-microsofts-spruce-goose/



I never read TechCrunch before (granted I will read them from now on) but I came across this article on Flipboard, and I think it really hits and hammers the point better than any Xbox One naysayer I've read or listened to before. I haven't seen it posted before, searched and got nothing, and I really think it's worth discussing.
Click to expand...

I've read some posts and articles with the exact same point, them Xbox One "naysayers" have pretty much described why most of the One's features are questionable.
 
C

Coolwhip

Banned
ConfusedCat said:
The only argument i have against this is

Nobody really wants one device to do everything (not that it can)

the ipad. I remember the reaction to the ipad 'lol giant ipod touch, will never sell'

and well...
Click to expand...

But it ended up being a very cool device. While the Xbone is an all in one videogame console with a 2 control methods that aren't nearly as intuitive as a tablet.
 
N

Newline

Member
ConfusedCat said:
again ipad.

look i agree with ALL of you, but this is the exact reaction the ipad had.
Click to expand...

When have any paradigm shifts Microsoft has tried to pull off in the last 10 or so years worked?
How many times has it worked for Apple?

Comparing the two seem a bit silly to me.
 
V

Visualante2

Member
SJRB said:
Xbone was presented as the solution to a problem no one is having.
Click to expand...
Managing an increasingly fragmented home entertainment centre is a problem. It might not be your problem where you live but I see it plenty in my family and friends. People who juggle a games console, smart TV, DVR, home theater set up and all the remotes.

They propose a compelling solution, however flawed.
 
E

evlcookie

but ever so delicious
ConfusedCat said:
again ipad.

look i agree with ALL of you, but this is the exact reaction the ipad had.
Click to expand...

The iPad was different though. It allowed you to access things while watching tv, taking a shit or out in the middle of no where. It was easier to use than your iPhone and it was mostly just a convenience product more so than anything else.

The Xbone is attempting to do what others have attempted before, Make the living room an important part of the families life once again. All of the ones before it failed, The only one would could potentially succeed would be Apple. But even then the Apple TV is a piece of shit and essentially a failure in the big picture.

The One is a nice idea, It's just flawed in the execution.
 
N

netBuff

Member
ConfusedCat said:
again ipad.

look i agree with ALL of you, but this is the exact reaction the ipad had.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not: It was very clear from the moment it was presented that the iPad was going to be a big success, the excitement for this new product was palpable. Only idiots didn't see the massive potential the iPad had from the moment of its presentation. The iPad solves very real needs people have, something a sideshow interface that complicates existing setups isn't

Microsoft's "TV overlay box" isn't nearly in the same category, they are not innovating: You can buy a Google TV right now if you like complicating your TV watching.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Echoes the Gamasutra Blog, and I agree. It's seems like they're chasing a goal oblivious to the changed world around them.
ConfusedCat said:
The only argument i have against this is

Nobody really wants one device to do everything (not that it can)

the ipad. I remember the reaction to the ipad 'lol giant ipod touch, will never sell'

and well...
Click to expand...
The thing is, it's not even really a convergent device. It doesn't actually replace a cable box/DVR. It simply connects to them. The iPad was essentially a convergence of smartphones and tablets. This simply sits on top of your existing boxes and lets you voice control them.
 
E

Eusis

Member
Also this is why the HuffPost story was ludicrous to the point of being hilarious: an older man claiming this will drag "gamers" into the 21st century, when really them and the rest of the age group they likely belong to are too busy messing with tablets and phones to even really notice it. Or are fuming about it using those devices.
 
H

hooijdonk17

Member
ConfusedCat said:
again ipad.

look i agree with ALL of you, but this is the exact reaction the ipad had.
Click to expand...

I get the ipad comparison but remember even the ipad coexists with your iphone imac and tv. The xbone sets out to replace your tv and fight your ipad at the same time while having questionable foothold on phones and acutely pissing off its gamer installbase.
 
JimmyRustler

JimmyRustler

Gold Member
ConfusedCat said:
The only argument i have against this is

Nobody really wants one device to do everything (not that it can)

the ipad. I remember the reaction to the ipad 'lol giant ipod touch, will never sell'

and well...
Click to expand...
IIRC Apple released the iPad for a growing market (computer etc.) whereas Microsoft tries to release the Xbone for a dieing market (TV).
 
K

kitsuneyo

Member
ConfusedCat said:
The only argument i have against this is

Nobody really wants one device to do everything (not that it can)

the ipad. I remember the reaction to the ipad 'lol giant ipod touch, will never sell'

and well...
Click to expand...

The iPad is not that one device that does everything. What it is is a good companion device to your TV, computer and phone. In fact I'd much rather look up sports stats on an iPad while watching a game, than do picture in picture (hi 1980s) on my Xbone.
 
V

Visualante2

Member
TheExorzist said:
IIRC Apple released the iPad for a growing market (computer etc.) whereas Microsoft tries to release the Xbone for a dieing market (TV).
Click to expand...
I thought that was Microsoft's agenda from day one with the Xbox? Get Windows into the living room. And they're finally doing it with this product. It's not really a secret that the creator of the World's biggest operating system would want to expand into the living room, and how convenient the home desktop PC is dying. Apple are geniuses in everything they do but when Microsoft tries to do something alongside consumer trends it's always a stinker apparently.

Gaming was always a trojan horse for Microsoft.
 
N

Nibiru

Banned
ConfusedCat said:
The only argument i have against this is

Nobody really wants one device to do everything (not that it can)

the ipad. I remember the reaction to the ipad 'lol giant ipod touch, will never sell'

and well...
Click to expand...

What? Maybe some said that but it wasn't even nearly a popular sentiment.
 
N

netBuff

Member
Visualante2 said:
I thought that was Microsoft's agenda from day one with the Xbox? Get Windows into the living room. And they're finally doing it with this product. It's not really a secret that the creator of the World's biggest operating system would want to expand into the living room, and how convenient the home desktop PC is dying. Apple are geniuses in everything they do but when Microsoft tries to do something alongside consumer trends it's always a stinker apparently.
Click to expand...

And the problem with this is that the idea of "living room convergence" may have been all the rage some time in the late 90s, but has massively lost relevance the last few years.

While trying for the living room, Microsoft lost all relevance in the mobile market.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I think the focus on live TV from MS was wrong, but don't forget 360 can search across all your on demand services too, and so its almost guaranteed Xbox one will be the same. S those of you talking about how the world is moving away from live towards on demand - Xbox one will support that Ian integrated way too

Only thing missing really is DVR integration which hopefully will come with time (not Xbox doing the recording, just integrating with eg TiVo and Comcast boxes which can expose their UIs via LAN)


And if apple are still working on a TV, this is the kind of thing they'll do. I am surprised MS didn't improve on the obvious shortcomings of google TV though.
 
W

Whiteshirt

Member
ConfusedCat said:
The only argument i have against this is

Nobody really wants one device to do everything (not that it can)

the ipad. I remember the reaction to the ipad 'lol giant ipod touch, will never sell'

and well...
Click to expand...

The iPad worked because Apple was especially clear on its intent and purpose and the hardware execution was pretty much perfect. They clearly communicated what it was designed to do to everyone from developers to the consumer. From day one there were tablet optimised applications, which made the whole device viable vs. a couple years of Android tablet failures.

It was a companion device from the get go. It was meant to make the consumption part of computing hassle free and it did that admirably. That's why it sold so well, it wasn't just a huge iPod Touch nor was it communicated to the public like so.
 
U

Uncle Rupee

Banned
They're probably threatened by Google more than Apple.
Once Google Fiber starts to roll out, people will be paying them for internet / tv.
You put the Android OS on smart TVs on top of that, and BOOM, there's your explanation for the Xbone.
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
Like I said in another thread, Cable TV is being dropped by many (I don't have it; just stick to an OTA antenna to get the major networks in HD, and I also have Hulu, Netflix, and WatchESPN).

However, I still think though that cable TV won't be completely dead until AFTER the upcoming gaming gen is over; not during it.

To be honest, it seems like a decent number of the decisions MS made for the Xbox One are "foot in the door" plans -- MS being able to work their way up over the years via partnerships only to completely back-stab and end up taking over.

So while I definitely get what people are saying about the cable TV features on the Xbox One, I honestly think that those features are ways for MS to get partners on their side to possibly lead them into playing a huge role in the death of Cable TV after 2020.

The Xbox One will still have many video streaming/downloading apps; therefore possibly also making it attractive for people who want to drop cable (and are also into AAA games).

Overall, I think MS is killing two birds with one stone -- Trying to attract BOTH people with cable and those without it. Gamers who have dropped cable are more than likely already familiar with apps on Xbox which is more than likely the reason why MS is currently advertising the Xbox One as a device that works with cable TV.

People with cable didn't see a need in getting an Xbox 360 for media. That may change though with the Xbox One.
 
I'm new be nice

I'm new be nice

Member
My greatest fear is that all of us here at NeoGAF just "don't get it" and somehow Microsoft has realized something we all didn't know we wanted.

But then I think about how easy it is to pull out my phone.
 
Liberty4all

Liberty4all

Banned
Visualante2 said:
Managing an increasingly fragmented home entertainment centre is a problem. It might not be your problem where you live but I see it plenty in my family and friends. People who juggle a games console, smart TV, DVR, home theater set up and all the remotes.

They propose a compelling solution, however flawed.
Click to expand...

the solution they propose is tied to the TV, in an age where people are spending more and more time with tablets.

I was at my brothers place and tried out the Wii u for the first time. The off screen play was awesome. Because that's how I normally consume my content nowadays. Off screen play really hammered that home.

hell even on this Gen equipment we use our PS3 to stream content we have on our PC. Live cable TV is something I could care less about, yet it is the keystone of the xbone, even seeming to trump games.
 
E

Eusis

Member
netBuff said:
And the problem with this is that the idea of "living room convergence" may have been all the rage some time in the late 90s, but has massively lost relevance the last few years.

While trying for the living room, Microsoft lost all relevance in the mobile market.
Click to expand...
I suspect ultimately the idea of the convergence was the internet was a big deal, and TV was what a lot of people spent a lot of their free time watching, nearly everyone in the US to some extent at that! SO WHAT IF YOU COMBINED THEM!?

In hindsight the rising dominance of handheld games in Japan (and hell, their own phones) should've told us the truth: we'd rather be able to access this stuff as we pleased, the TV's mainly useful for watching things, with games as a secondary function, and even that can be preferred in portable form.
 
C

Corto

Member
evlcookie said:
The iPad was different though. It allowed you to access things while watching tv, taking a shit or out in the middle of no where. It was easier to use than your iPhone and it was mostly just a convenience product more so than anything else.

The Xbone is attempting to do what others have attempted before, Make the living room an important part of the families life once again. All of the ones before it failed, The only one would could potentially succeed would be Apple. But even then the Apple TV is a piece of shit and essentially a failure in the big picture.

The One is a nice idea, It's just flawed in the execution.
Click to expand...

Xbox One won't make the living room an important part of the families life. It can even fragment it even further. One person will command the TV, what is shown, what multi tasking activity he/she wants to use, while the rest of the family sits quiet (so kinect doesn't take their talk or gestures as inputs) and passively. The Xbox One in a communal or family living room won't ever work, or it will work only in a non-organic forced scenario. The Xbox One will be a great way to interact with your TV when you're alone, and I predict that even in that case it won't take much time until it loses the novelty factor and people go back to using their tablets, laptops or smartphones for the same tasks.
 
V

Visualante2

Member
netBuff said:
And the problem with this is that the idea of "living room convergence" may have been all the rage some time in the late 90s, but has massively lost relevance the last few years.

While trying for the living room, Microsoft lost all relevance in the mobile market.
Click to expand...
As long as people still spend time in their living rooms, it won't be irrelevant imho. I don't own a tablet so maybe my perspective is completely flawed but it seems like a device you use on the couch during ad breaks and multiplayer lobbies. Not as a replacement for your TV or content on it.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Visualante2 said:
I thought that was Microsoft's agenda from day one with the Xbox? Get Windows into the living room. And they're finally doing it with this product. It's not really a secret that the creator of the World's biggest operating system would want to expand into the living room, and how convenient the home desktop PC is dying. Apple are geniuses in everything they do but when Microsoft tries to do something alongside consumer trends it's always a stinker apparently.

Gaming was always a trojan horse for Microsoft.
Click to expand...
You're right. Gaming was always a Trojan horse. They wanted to own the living room, they were fearful that a device would take center stage in people's lives and supersede the PC. Back in that time, it probably did make sense to target the television as that potential screen. The problem however is that in that single-minded vision to control the television screen, they missed the boat on the actual device that's already taking center stage in people's lives - smartdevices. And the XB1 seems to continue to strive for this goal oblivious to this change in the landscape.

That's what these articles are saying: they aren't doing something alongside current consumer trends. They're sticking to a very old strategy, despite a very new world.
 
Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
The iPad at least offered a revolutionary form-factor, especially as it launched at a time when high end smartphones had smaller screen sizes than they do today.

By comparison Xbone only offers Kinect and the whole NUI as an overlay/point of convergence for technology the buyer already owns. This is not nearly such a compelling USP in my opinion.

There's also the fact that Xbox/Kinect as brands aren't nearly as well globalized as Apple's product. The majority of the global market was not enticed by Kinect on 360, so why should they be so enamoured by the new iteration? Its pretty easy to argue that in many markets Kinect 2.0 will need to get past established negative perceptions about the tech.

The biggest thing of all however is that while iPad was a product that notionally you could use anywhere, Xbone practically demands that its installed in a fixed location at the heart of the user's media equipment. This is not a machine best suited for dorms, and barracks, even kids' bedrooms - that's got to hurt uptake rate, surely?
 
10101

10101

Gold Member
Visualante2 said:
Managing an increasingly fragmented home entertainment centre is a problem. It might not be your problem where you live but I see it plenty in my family and friends. People who juggle a games console, smart TV, DVR, home theater set up and all the remotes.

They propose a compelling solution, however flawed.
Click to expand...
The only thing this will help with is the remotes. You will still need all those devices. An all-in-one remote would be just as useful.

I agree that there isn't really a need for it personally. They are also assuming people will have it hooked up to their main TV screen, which I certainly wouldn't as I'd never get on it what with the kids & wife. I also have a smart TV which can do a lot of that stuff already and I'm interested to know how they expect a lot of the features will work outside the US. I can see poor sales on the horizon from the rest of the world.
 
D

dejay

Banned
Personally I want a snappy media box, and the xylobone seems to fit that bill. They're overselling the owning of the living room concept, which will garner marginal interest, but by having everything so quick it's going to appeal to a lot of people I think. I don't need the TV to run through it, but if it gets processed along with the other media I have then more power to me I guess. Then again I'm in Australia so I don't expect any TV integration any time soon. You could argue that smart TVs do a lot of what the xbone tries to do, but they're laggy as shit, hard to use and just something I'd rather not have to deal with.

I don't think it's going to revolutionise the living room, but I don't think it's going to be a Spruce Goose. Maybe there is a substantial niche for such a device. *shrug* I think a major issue is that tablets allow people to do multiple things at once whilst leaving the TV alone - something that's important if you're sharing the TV with someone else. Interesting times though - can't wait to see if it flies or crashes into the waves.
 
N

netBuff

Member
Bgamer90 said:
Like I said in another thread, Cable TV is being dropped by many (I don't have it; just stick to an OTA antenna to get the major networks in HD, and I also have Hulu, Netflix, and WatchESPN).

However, I still think though that cable TV won't be completely dead until AFTER the upcoming gaming gen is over; not during it.

To be honest, it seems like a decent number of the decisions MS made for the Xbox One are "foot in the door" plans -- MS being able to work their way up over the years via partnerships only to completely back-stab and end up taking over.

So while I definitely get what people are saying about the cable TV features on the Xbox One, I honestly think that those features are ways for MS to get partners on their side to possibly lead them into being a huge role in the death of Cable TV after 2020 or so.

The Xbox One will still have many video streaming/downloading apps; therefore possibly also making it attractive for people who want to drop cable (and are also into AAA games).

Overall, I think MS is killing two birds with one stone -- Trying to attract BOTH people with cable and those without it. Gamers who have dropped cable are more than likely already familiar with apps on Xbox which is more than likely the reason why MS is currently advertising the Xbox One as a device that works with cable TV.

People with cable didn't see a need in getting an Xbox 360 for media. That may change though with the Xbox One.
Click to expand...

If this is their strategy, it's highly misguided.

Content providers are typically interested in being present on as many platforms as possible: We see this with services like Netflix, Amazon Video, Hulu etc. If they're exclusive, it's because money has changed hands. Whether Microsoft gets "a foot in the door" now is completely irrelevant to what happens in 2020 in terms of content deals.

For people that don't have cable, the Xbone proposition is uninteresting: The same apps of similar quality will be available on other platforms which are better suited to gaming (exclusives, availability of indie titles) and have platform holders that aren't blowing $400 Million on sideshow deals that take investment away from gaming.
 
C

CoG

Member
The whole thing is so misguided. The TV functionality is a half-baked implementation developed under the ridiculous premise that it takes too long to change the input on your TV. "Snap mode" just show how completely out of touch Microsoft is. Exactly nobody is going to want to pull up a browser on half their screen to research the content on the other half. The fact that Microsoft is making a strong play into tablets, you know, the thing that most people use to augment their TV viewing experience, just shows how disjointed Microsoft as a corporation is.

The Xbox One is a suite of solutions without a problem.
 
V

Visualante2

Member
shinra-bansho said:
That's what these articles are saying: they aren't doing something alongside current consumer trends. They're sticking to a very old strategy, despite a very new world.
Click to expand...
I think that's very much on the tablet proponents. They're the ones claiming that this new market is the be all and end all. I don't think it is, no doubt Microsoft missed a good opportunity in that sector but I don't see them as mutually exclusive at all. Television has survived this long.
syphonfitter said:
The only thing this will help with is the remotes. You will still need all those devices. An all-in-one remote would be just as useful.

I agree that there isn't really a need for it personally. They are also assuming people will have it hooked up to their main TV screen, which I certainly wouldn't as I'd never get on it what with the kids & wife. I also have a smart TV which can do a lot of that stuff already and I'm interested to know how they expect a lot of the features will work outside the US. I can see poor sales on the horizon from the rest of the world.
Click to expand...
Well you don't need a standalone Blu Ray player anymore for one. And the whole idea of Smart TV has been proven to be not worth the extra cost (especially if you own a console) so you can cut that out. Hopefully both offer some sort of DVR functionality at some point.
 
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