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Are third parties actively trying to fight Nintendo?

Metallix87

Metallix87

Member
This may sound like a silly question, but here's my reasoning for it: Each day that goes by, I see more and more third party Vita titles announced for localization, while countless 3DS titles from third parties, some from very big franchises, remain in Japan with no signs of a localization anytime soon.

Let's take this back a bit, back to the Wii. That system saw a great deal of third party support, but the VAST majority of the support provided was in the form of shovelware, with the rest being mostly niche titles. Wii saw tons of "test games" and "experimental games", but third parties refused to provide a decent amount of true support in the form of AAA games. There were exceptions, sure, such as Monster Hunter 3 and Tales of Graces, but for the most part, this seemed to be the case.

Even the DS had a tough time early on, despite being the successor to the GBA, as third parties quickly backed the PSP and pushed hard for that system to succeed. That followed on to Vita, as I stated earlier, with Vita getting a lot of third party support, and third parties being all-too happy to bring over Vita content as opposed to 3DS content, despite Vita selling well under even Wii U levels every month in the West, and under-performing even in Japan, the land of the handhelds.

The Wii U is currently suffering severely from third party neglect, and while I see a lot of people blaming Nintendo, could it simply be that third parties just don't want to support a Nintendo system? Has Nintendo's pre-Iwata history developed so much animosity from third parties that it's unlikely the situation can truly be remedied any time soon?
 
Third parties will put games on any system that they can make a profit on. It's as simple as that really. There is no "brand loyalty" among third parties.
 
Not entirely sure about this one, but Nintendo hasn't exactly done a whole lot to improve their image in that regard. They're still pretty old school.
 
DaBuddaDa said:
Third parties will put games on any system that they can make a profit on. It's as simple as that really. There is no "brand loyalty" among third parties.
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If that were true, many more 3DS third party titles would be localized as opposed to Vita third party titles. The 3DS has a MUCH larger install base, which grows at a MUCH faster rate than Vita's. Vita has basically flat-lined in North America.
 
Sorry if I sound rude, but is this bizzaro world?

Vita has had a lot of localization announcements today, but this isn't really the norm. The 3DS has plenty of great localizations on their way; we recently got a major one with Project X Zone, in fact. With games like SMTIV, New Etrian Odyssey, Rune Factory 4, and Bravely Default on their way, I fail to see how the 3DS is lacking in localizations in comparison to the Vita.
 
Green Slime said:
This may sound like a silly question, but here's my reasoning for it: Each day that goes by, I see more and more third party Vita titles announced for localization, while countless 3DS titles from third parties, some from very big franchises, remain in Japan with no signs of a localization anytime soon.
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THANK YOU, finally someone else notices.
 
Pops Maellard said:
Not entirely sure about this one, but Nintendo hasn't exactly done a whole lot to improve their image in that regard. They're still pretty old school.
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Among traditional third-parties, you may be right. Nintendo has made major strides in courting indies though, this time next year there should be tons of interesting indie properties, a few of which are exclusive. Spin the Bottle: Bumpie's Party is perhaps the most intriguing multiplayer game since Johann Sebastian Joust and I have high hopes for it.
 
Clov said:
Vita has had a lot of localization announcements today, but this isn't really the norm. The 3DS has plenty of great localizations on their way; we recently got a major one with Project X Zone, in fact. With games like SMTIV, New Etrian Odyssey, Rune Factory 4, and Bravely Default on their way, I fail to see how the 3DS is lacking in localizations in comparison to the Vita.
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Yes, I'm well aware that there's stuff coming over, but a lot of content is being kept back. Square-Enix, Level-5, Tecmo-Koei, and Konami seem completely opposed to bringing over their content. As for the examples you mentioned, most of it is from Atlus, who seems very happy with the 3DS, but listing Bravely Default is incorrect, since Nintendo is the one dragging that game over here.
 
Believe it or not, the N64 had worse droughts than the Wii-U had. I remember several months in between Rare/Nintendo releases it would be a ghost town, and as a N64 only owner, had to rely on Buck Bumble and Extreme-G for entertainment. I never had a PS1, so while my friends were talking about FF7/8/9, I was pretending that Quest 64 was some cold RPG shit that was just as good.

I learned at a young age to have more than one console per generation. One cannot live on Nintendo hardware alone.
 
Koei has Toukinden coming over here but not either of the 3DS Musou games. I wouldn't be surprised if their new vita musou comes out over here too.

I would say 'maybe Sony's easier to work with' but Nintendo said they were trying to actively help Japanese third parties bring over titles.
 
The only company I think that's honestly trying to do this is EA. The early jumping ship to the PSP was because it seemed to have more promise; at the time it was a technologically hip system that boosted more horsepower than Nintendo's by a significant margin and came from Sony, whose consoles routinely outsold Nintendo's at the time. The Wii sholveware was mainly because that's where the money was. The Vita localizations are more of a coincidence than anything, and plenty of 3DS titles are getting localized that might not have, like Project x Zone and Virtue's Last Reward.
 
Green Slime said:
with Vita getting a lot of third party support,
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The only third party support the Vita gets is from Indie devs and smaller JP third parties with the occasional AAA dev (Squeenix, Ubi, etc..)

And the 3DS is getting more localized titles than the Vita. What are you talking about (RF4, Bravely Default, A5, etc..)

Also Western devs (apart form indies) hate handhelds period. So there is no conspiracy that thrid parties are trying to fight da man (in this case being Nintendo) Third party devs (JP) are actually embracing the 3DS. Now localizations is a different story, but sadly the majority of the JP games that do come out for the Vita and 3DS barely make a dent stateside.
 
DaBuddaDa said:
"Bias" concerning which platforms they think they can make money off of, vs. those that they cannot, sure.
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This "make money of" is a cover up story for the the bad Wii U sales situation. Wii had record sales and third-parties didn't support it, either. If "profitable platform" is a reason for third-party support, the lackluster third-party support for Wii put this theory in check.

Samurai_Heart said:
Quick folks which company is EA bias towards =P?
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I don't know. But if anyone believes all companies are "fair and square" and give the same treatment for all platforms, how delusional you are.
 
TreasureHunterG said:
Don't be naive. Every company has some kind of bias.
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This is not high school. If a company prefers one to another, it may be because they are more familiar with the devkits, fanbase is already there, easier to make profits there, or they just have better relationships with the platform holder.
 
BlackJace said:
Not really. Nintendo is behind when it comes to third party relations.
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This sums it up nicely. Sony and Microsoft have better relationships with third parties, and it's reflected in the amount of support they get. Nintendo really has to work on their relationship with the big publishers.
 
Great more conspiracy theories for people to latch onto to explain Nintendo's lack of 3rd party support. Isn't the much easier answer is that Sony has made it much easier for localization or gave an incentive for those Vita tites than the fact they want Nintendo to die?

I already said this before today, but the amount of people that seem to think that multibillion dollar corporations are like high school cliques is astounding. Corporations have loyalty to one thing. Money. Are they wrong in thinking Nintendo can't make them more money? Mabye. Is it based on some stupid notion of wanting to war with Nintendo? Get over it Nintendo has bad 3rd party relationships.
 
Green Slime said:
Yes, I'm well aware that there's stuff coming over, but a lot of content is being kept back. Square-Enix, Level-5, and Konami seem completely opposed to bringing over their content. As for the examples you mentioned, most of it is from Atlus, who seems very happy with the 3DS, but listing Bravely Default is incorrect, since Nintendo is the one dragging that game over here.
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Even if Nintendo is doing the localization, it's still a localization of a third party game; it should count. :P

While Square-Enix and Konami definitely have been reluctant about the platform, those companies haven't had much Vita work on the other hand either. SE only has FFX and FFX-2 coming to it, whereas Konami only has released a handful of titles on it (Silent Hill Book of Memories and the MGSHD collection are all that come to mind).

Level-5 on the other hand has been very supportive of the platform. While Nintendo localized the Layton games themselves, Level-5 localized the Guild games for the eShop. Though it's a pity we're missing stuff like Time Travelers, games like that might just be too much for their recently formed US division. And if it's any consolation, it's been rumored that Layton VS Ace Attorney is going to be making the jump overseas soon.
 
DaBuddaDa said:
What about the Wii?
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Despite being able to make money off the wii most third parties didn't because they bet on the HD systems early on and didn't move any projects over after it was apparent it was outselling both systems combined? That to me would be third parties actively ignoring the reality of the market because of brand loyalty.
 
....or maybe they just don't have as good or clear communication when it comes to talking to third parties compared to lets say, Sony?
 
metalslimer said:
Great more conspiracy theories for people to latch onto to explain Nintendo's lack of 3rd party support. Isn't the much easier answer is that Sony has made it much easier for localization or gave an incentive for those Vita tites than the fact they want Nintendo to die?
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Explain the Wii situation, then. The Wii came, sold at an astronomical pace, and third parties flooded the system with shovelware and "test games", and when those stopped selling because the market had become absolutely toxic, they stood up with their head held high and proclaimed "games don't sell on Wii". No shit!
 
DaBuddaDa said:
Third parties will put games on any system that they can make a profit on. It's as simple as that really. There is no "brand loyalty" among third parties.
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First post.
TreasureHunterG said:
This "make money of" is a cover up story carrrying the bad Wii U sales situation. Wii had record sales and third-parties didn't support it, either. If "profitable platform" is a reason for third-party support, the lackluster third-party support for Wii put this theory in check.
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They supported Wii with things that sold well on it.
Skylanders, Just Dance, Sonic and so on.
metalslimer said:
Great more conspiracy theories for people to latch onto to explain Nintendo's lack of 3rd party support. Isn't the much easier answer is that Sony has made it much easier for localization or gave an incentive for those Vita tites than the fact they want Nintendo to die?
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You mean Bethesda didn't pull Wii U support because Nintendo wouldn't put Origin on the 3DS?
 
metalslimer said:
Great more conspiracy theories for people to latch onto to explain Nintendo's lack of 3rd party support. Isn't the much easier answer is that Sony has made it much easier for localization or gave an incentive for those Vita tites than the fact they want Nintendo to die?
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Please, bring evidence that Vita is easier for localization.

shinra-bansho said:
First post.They supported Wii with things that sold well on it.
Skylanders, Just Dance, Sonic and so on.You mean Bethesda didn't pull Wii U support because Nintendo wouldn't put Origin on the 3DS?
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LOL. I hope you aren't serious about this being strong third-party support.
 
Green Slime said:
Explain the Wii situation, then. The Wii came, sold at an astronomical pace, and third parties flooded the system with shovelware and "test games", and when those stopped selling because the market had become absolutely toxic, they stood up with their head held high and proclaimed "games don't sell on Wii". No shit!
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A lot of "shovelware" sold well on the Wii.

Just Dance was probably thought of as shovelware by a lot of people and it's now Ubisoft's second biggest franchise.

Third parties put games on the system they saw an audience for. Simple as that.

Nintendo built an audience conducive to dance games, to party games, to minigame collections, to fitness games, to mascot platformers and so on. The entire system, in design, in promotion and positioning, in software from the maker, was framed around attracting a different type of audience than the target markets for the likes of Mass Effect and Battlefield and GTA and Skyrim.
 
DaBuddaDa said:
What about the Wii?
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Hilarious to use Wii as an example, considering how most third parties ate shit financially when they tried to make exclusive content there.

Third parties have allegiances when they've either had a great history making bank on a platform or when the manufacturer lines their palms with silver to get exclusives. On the flipside, negative sentiment is garnered when games tank as exclusives or hardware manufacturers don't work with them to make the dev process tolerable/don't help market their games.

Let's not fool ourselves into thinking said allegiances are directly tied to financial motivations. Pubs/devs don't care as long as they're making money.
 
Green Slime said:
Explain the Wii situation, then. The Wii came, sold at an astronomical pace, and third parties flooded the system with shovelware and "test games", and when those stopped selling because the market had become absolutely toxic, they stood up with their head held high and proclaimed "games don't sell on Wii". No shit!
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Get over it. They invested in HD gaming systems and didn't invest in the wii because they thought it was a risk? Was it a bad idea? Maybe? Was it some kind of high school mentality that caused it? No and you should stop thinking corporations are people with personal feelings.They operate based on money.

And guess what some of that shovelwhare sold millions of copies. See: Carnival games, so to think that there was no reason anyone would try and copy the success those type of games and invest in a completely unknown market is ridiculous. If Nintendo wanted 3rd party support they should have made a console that could get ports when no developer is exclusive anymore. This topic is even annoying to read about because I'm sure a bunch of loyal Nintendo fans are about to latch onto to the idea saying how great it is.
 
JordanLMiller said:
Despite being able to make money off the wii most third parties didn't because they bet on the HD systems early on and didn't move any projects over after it was apparent it was outselling both systems combined? That to me would be third parties actively ignoring the reality of the market because of brand loyalty.
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Well, making questionable business decisions in hindsight is not the same as a "bias" or "actively trying to fight" Nintendo. It's misjudged business.
I guess that's my point. It's just business. Good or bad, there is no agenda to uncover or conspiracy against Nintendo. If EA could put out Dragon Effect Creed 4 for Wii U and sell ten million copies, you bet your ass they would be doing so.
 
SatoAilDarko said:
I think it's because on the Vita third-parties don't have to go against a first-party software lineup as strong as Nintendo's.
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UGH, this is the most sickening reason of all time.

Guess what guys, if you made games as good as Nintendo's on their platforms, people would want to buy them as much as Nintendo's.

Doesn't help when they make hand-me-down versions or just sub-par games on Nintendo platforms, and the actual good ones get no marketing.

Klonoa on Wii, a wonderful platformer that really does go with Nintendo's own greats, got no marketing (don't know if the rumored Nick commercial was true or not, it says a lot that I'm asking), if they gave it AAA marketing like Nintendo would with a Mario game, people would've ate Klonoa up.

Look how absurdly Epic Mickey did on Wii, Disney MARKETED the game.

Monster Hunter Tri did 125k in its first month according to NPD.

Sonic thankfully gets the attention on Nintendo platforms he deserves. This is one 3rd-party IP that actually is where it belongs. And luckily Sega know that, with Lost World and Colors before it being exclusives and the Olympics series, the guy's got a lot of exposure on Nintendo platforms, he's a match made in heaven with Nintendo.
 
shinra-bansho said:
A lot of "shovelware" sold well on the Wii.

Just Dance was probably thought of as shovelware by a lot of people and it's now Ubisoft's second biggest franchise.

Third parties put games on the system they saw an audience for. Simple as that.
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Let's go with that for a moment, then. Resident Evil 4 is released on Wii and sells very well, yes? Does Capcom follow it up with another RE game like it? Nope.

Let's try this: How many big third-party publishers put top-quality games on the Wii?
 
Espada said:
This sums it up nicely. Sony and Microsoft have better relationships with third parties, and it's reflected in the amount of support they get. Nintendo really has to work on their relationship with the big publishers.
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It won't matter, Nintendo can essentially let publishers and developers have 90% of the profits made from games they release, let them handle all advertisment and stuff. Devs would still not make any big games if Nintendo doesn't "money hat" every game in existence.
 
DaBuddaDa said:
What about the Wii?



"Bias" concerning which platforms they think they can make money off of, vs. those that they cannot, sure.
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Exactly. They are a commercial business. Anyone who thinks a third party cares about anything other than profitabilityneed to get their heads checked. They should also never start a business.

Everyone needs to remove the emotion from their thinking and get a grasp of reality.
 
Green Slime said:
Yes, I'm well aware that there's stuff coming over, but a lot of content is being kept back. Square-Enix, Level-5, Tecmo-Koei, and Konami seem completely opposed to bringing over their content. As for the examples you mentioned, most of it is from Atlus, who seems very happy with the 3DS, but listing Bravely Default is incorrect, since Nintendo is the one dragging that game over here.
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Square hasn't brought over Lord of Apocalypse, Level-5 hasn't localized their medabots sequel, Namco hasn't localized their Tales games or the One Piece game (even though the PS3 version is coming out), etc., etc. I only see in a difference in niche releases but NIS, Aksys, and Xseed gave great support to the PSP so this isn't surprising to me.
 
metalslimer said:
Get over it. They invested in HD gaming systems and didn't invest in the wii because they thought it was a risk? Was it a bad idea? Maybe? Was it some kind of high school mentality that caused it? No and you should stop thinking corporations are people with personal feelings.They operate based on money.
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They sure made a shitton of money with their HD investment, right?
 
metalslimer said:
Get over it. They invested in HD gaming systems and didn't invest in the wii because they thought it was a risk? Was it a bad idea? Maybe? Was it some kind of high school mentality that caused it? No and you should stop thinking corporations are people with personal feelings.They operate based on money.
Click to expand...

Because common excuses for not supporting Wii U is because of bad sales and little installed base? If that hold any logic, Wii should have major support from all third-parties. Thus, this "investment in HD gaming systems" is a contradiction to these claims.
 
Green Slime said:
Let's go with that for a moment, then. Resident Evil 4 is released on Wii and sells very well, yes? Does Capcom follow it up with another RE game like it? Nope.

Let's try this: How many big third-party publishers put top-quality games on the Wii?
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3rd parties don't have an infinite amount of money. If Wii could have got a RE5 port with ease it would have gotten it.Guess what RE5 is still the best selling game in the franchise
Because common excuses for not supporting Wii U is because of bad sales and little installed base? If that hold any logic, Wii should have major support from all third-parties. This "investment in HD gaming systems" is a contradiction to these claims. .
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Yes, when Nintendo makes a system that is easy to port to with a good install base 3rd parties will port to it. Shock and awe 3rd parties like ease and making money.
 
metalslimer said:
Get over it. They invested in HD gaming systems and didn't invest in the wii because they thought it was a risk? Was it a bad idea? Maybe? Was it some kind of high school mentality that caused it? No and you should stop thinking corporations are people with personal feelings.They operate based on money.
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If that were true, they would've eventually jumped on board the Wii train. They didn't. If that were true, they would've at least looked at the Wii U as though it had the potential to copy the Wii's success.

Nope. Third parties just don't give a shit about Nintendo hardware, especially consoles.
 
Concerning consoles and the big western third parties, I just think Nintendo vehemently disagrees with their vision of what gaming is supposed to be and what audiences it's supposed to attract. The guys in Kyoto probably don't give a shit about COD, Battlefield, Grand Theft Auto, or any strictly 16-35 dudebro game, so they're not going the extra mile to give those publishers what they want.

ViewtifulJC said:
Believe it or not, the N64 had worse droughts than the Wii-U had. I remember several months in between Rare/Nintendo releases it would be a ghost town, and as a N64 only owner, had to rely on Buck Bumble and Extreme-G for entertainment. I never had a PS1, so while my friends were talking about FF7/8/9, I was pretending that Quest 64 was some cold RPG shit that was just as good.

I learned at a young age to have more than one console per generation. One cannot live on Nintendo hardware alone.
Click to expand...

Same here. This is how games like Quest 64 were able to shine.
 
I'm not sure what you're going on about OP.

Shin Megami Tensei IV
Project X Zone
Monster Hunter 3
Etrian Odyssey IV
Shin Megami Tensei Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers
Rune Factory 4
Sonic Lost World
Castelvania: Lords of the Shadow - Mirror of Fate
Phoenix Wright: Dual Destinies
Resident Evil: Revelations
Theatrhythm Final Fantasy
Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask
Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
Code of Princess
Harvest Moon: A New Beginning
Guild 01
Guild 02

This list absolutely demolishes the size and quality of the Vita's 3rd party support, including Japanese 3rd party support.
 
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