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Nintendo 3rd-party indie developers slam region-locking

C

Cheesemeister

Member
New thread for new news.

In response to the ongoing fan campaign and petition to end region-locking on Nintendo systems, Emily Rogers of notenoughshaders.com has posted an in-depth discussion with Nintendo 3rd-party indie developers here.

Most of the responses are critical of Nintendo still maintaining a region-locking policy.

Jools Watsham said:
In this era of digital distribution, region locking doesn’t make much sense.  Every game should be a simultaneous worldwide release, because DIGITAL.  Right now, we have to submit our games to NOA and NOE, separately. This slows down the process and can make it difficult to achieve a simultaneous release in different territories. Being able to submit one game to Nintendo, and then have the option to release in all territories would be a big improvement on the submission system. The age rating boards also need to take note from the ESRB’s example of how publishers apply for age rating. The European age rating systems is something that also slows down the process for us.
Click to expand...

Bendik Stang said:
I think Region Locking is a self-damaging form of DRM. It limits legal distribution and strongly motivates paying customers to start using pirated software. Imagine buying a product legally on a vacation or getting it shipped from a different region, only to find that it does not play on your hardware due to a region lock! I’m sure many with that experience have been so frustrated that they have taken the time to figure out how to use pirated games instead.
Click to expand...

Keng Jin said:
I feel that region lock is an archaic mechanism in today’s context. Goods move freely and information too. Why shouldn’t games move freely too? Imagine if other products that we own or information is region locked too! Companies have to start thinking for their customers or risk losing out to other companies that have adapted.
Click to expand...

Martin Pichlmair said:
Region locking is a restriction that content publishers of old wished for. We, being a young indie studio, are not interested in restricting or controlling the access to our games. The more people can play them, the better. From our naive perspective, it is that simple.
Click to expand...

Manfred Linzner said:
Especially for handheld machines we think it is great to have no hardware region lock. Buying retail games on holiday would be much easier this way.
Click to expand...

Andrew Augustin said:
I personally do not understand the concept behind region locking. I can’t see the benefits of this. There’s nothing worse than not being able to play a game that you are really interested in because of it not being able to play on your region specific console. It limits the potential for gamers to experience all the game for a system they support and it limits the amount of players a developer can reach out to. No good at all.
Click to expand...

James Saito said:
Although I understand that Nintendo region locked due to differences in regional content and ratings, I can’t see why these things can’t be worked around.  Instead of prevention, I would instead like to see a disclaimer warning the player about regional differences but still allow them to play after agreeing to certain terms.  People who buy out of region games already know what they’re getting into, and is really a very small portion of their consumers.  But removing the region lock goes a long way towards showing that they are listening to their customers.
Click to expand...

Jean-Francois Major said:
I do understand the interest for a publisher to region lock a game. (Pricing, different publishers per territory, sensitive content and so on.) But in the end, gamers know what comes with importing a game. If that means having to play a game in a foreign language, they should have the choice to make that decision. We have to be forward thinking and respect the globalization of the market.
Click to expand...

Jonas Kaerlev said:
As a developer, region-locking doesn’t make much sense to me. I understand the financial advantage of being able to prevent importing. However, if the lock was removed and people were able to purchase games abroad they couldn’t play else-wise, then that would result in higher sales and even out the loss. Without region-locking, costumers are given more freedom and are more likely to be able to enjoy a larger array of franchises.  This is important to me, as I know we have fans in Japan and China, and if we weren’t doing an all-digital release then they wouldn’t be able to enjoy our games at all.
Click to expand...

Xander Davis said:
It’s pretty clear we live in a fairly globalized society now, and building bridges with consumers everywhere is not only smart for a console holder, but opens up markets substantially to developers, especially smaller developers whose products could really use that kind of accessibility.  That would be much more consistent with the type of global digital download and market accessibility we’re getting ever more used to every year online, but even region-specific digital stores on consoles seems odd.  If there’s a way to work out a universal ability to release a game globally, especially digitally, that would be very interesting.  I truly believe listening to what gamers want is crucial, and nothing made that clearer this year than the controversies surrounding Xbox One. For any console-holder to make their devices region-free delivers on that kind of passionate demand.
Click to expand...

Brian Allanson said:
Many U.S. gamers are bilingual, and love to play games from all over the world. Sadly, not every game gets localized.  Removing region locks means we’re given the chance to play games that we’d never be given the opportunity to play! I’ve always been an importer of games, even if I had to mod my system to do so or buy a foreign console. One game I still play is the Bleach fighting game for the PSP, which doesn’t have an ounce of english in it, nor does it need any! Without region lock on the PSP, I was able to play many games that never came here… plus the boxes smelt like Japan!
Click to expand...

David Byers said:
To be honest I’m not sure where I stand on the region locking issue. Removing it I think would be great for consumers, but from what I understand having separate regions allows lower pricing in poorer countries. One thing I do hope for, especially as digital distribution becomes more prolific, is that most content will be localized thereby removing the need to import games in the first place.
Click to expand...

Monty Goulet said:
In my own gaming collection I have three imported titles. Shonen Jump Superstars, Last Window, and Xenoblade Chronicles.  Given that you might assume that I’m totally in favor of region free consoles but I’m not 100% on other side of this debate. Consumer choice is always good. However, I can clearly see the reasons why Nintendo wants to lock down its systems, and just because Microsoft and Sony have decided against it doesn’t make Nintendo’s reasons any less valid.

One of the main reasons I can’t see why the abolition of region-locking will make any difference is purely personal; I simply don’t import that many titles.  Secondly, release dates are now closer together than ever before. In the case of the Wii U, Pikmin 3 will launch across all three territories in the space of three weeks. Are you honestly going to pay more to get the Japanese version? Now I know most of the debate is over titles that won’t be released in certain regions so I want to mention that as well. It’s a safe bet that if a region free console existed during Xenoblade chronicles, it would have never made it to Europe, and ultimately the US as the petitioners simply would have imported it.

Region locking allows Nintendo to manage its international business in a more effective manner, as it knows that money spent marketing games in a particular region will — for the most part — result in games being purchased in the same region, not from another.  From a business standpoint, I can clearly see where Nintendo is coming from and support it, but as a gamer, I would love to be able to play more titles than what are available in just the US.
Click to expand...

Bottom line: going region-free would create more opportunities for consumers and developers alike. Make it happen, Nintendo!
 
G

GamerJM

Banned
Topic title is kind of an exaggeration, and I don't think that article will do much nor will this make a big difference for those devs, but I still thought it was a great article.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
Cool that so many of them spoke out about this. Hope this reinvigorates the campaign.
 
C

chertipros

Member
I never really thought that region locking was such a big deal because I would always hear people complaining about it without giving much of a good reason but this is insightful. They really should do away with this practice
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
That Xenoblade example in the last quote is fairly unconvincing. Not bringing the game to the US was a mistake in the first place and in this case the people who were hellbent on playing it by any means necessary, were enough to convince them to rectify that mistake.
 
P

Pirzolaman

Banned
What Indies want, Nintenwon't... Not to bash Nintendo but, why are they so backwards all the friggin time? I was pretty upset when I bought a 3ds XL (I live in EU), and it didn't come with a charger...unbelievable.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Phire Phox said:
Funny how its now Nintendo is being criticized for its restrictions.
Click to expand...

They always have been. MS's idiocy just took the spotlight for a sec

Also i was hoping for more outrage considering indie devs are the only good news for wiiu 3rd party wise and them adding pressure would be nice
 
O

Omikaru

Member
I don't buy Monty Goulet's point that Xenoblade wouldn't have been localised if the Wii was region free. It still needed to be translated into English for most people to touch it. At the very least, it would've received its European release. There is a possibility it could've affected the US release, however.

But the way I see it, some titles may be a headache for one region for various reasons, and it makes perfect sense for a region which can support a certain game's release to prop the title up in another region where it may not be profitable if it were officially released there. A prime candidate that pops into my mind is Inazuma Eleven. To say it's niche in America would be understating how few copies it would sell over there, but for the small number of people who really want to play it, buying the EU release is completely harmless to NoA and ultimately keeps them happy and passionate customers of Nintendo products.

On a personal note, importing one of my favourite games -- 999 -- was the only way I got to play it. Nobody wanted to touch it with a bargepole over here, so my point works both ways between North America and Europe.

Back to the article, overall good responses. While I think Nintendo will probably look at this and not give a fuck, it's good that the gaming community is having a sensible discussion about region locking.
 
DR2K

DR2K

Banned
Eh Nintendo did just fine without region lock last gen,not sure why they've adapted it and enforced it even more than ever this gen.
 
K

Keyouta

Junior Member
I wouldn't say slam, but they definitely don't believe in Nintendo's policies on region locking. I hope someone would try doing the same interview with the big developers and publishers as well.
 
U

Uncle Rupee

Banned
Region locking sucks, but Nintendo was always good about this sort of thing with previous handhelds. The sheer volume of pirated DS flash carts forced them to implement some sort of system like this. At least, that's my understanding.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
Uncle Rupee said:
Region locking sucks, but Nintendo was always good about this sort of thing with previous handhelds. The sheer volume of pirated DS flash carts forced them to implement some sort of system like this. At least, that's my understanding.
Click to expand...

I really don't see what Flash carts have to do with it. They can and have implemented other measures to counter its usage.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Uncle Rupee said:
Region locking sucks, but Nintendo was always good about this sort of thing with previous handhelds. The sheer volume of pirated DS flash carts forced them to implement some sort of system like this. At least, that's my understanding.
Click to expand...

In what way does region locking decrease piracy? Region locking INCREASES piracy because it encourages people to hack/mod their systems. Once the systems are hacked/modded that opens the door for piracy.
 
K

Keyouta

Junior Member
Uncle Rupee said:
Region locking sucks, but Nintendo was always good about this sort of thing with previous handhelds. The sheer volume of pirated DS flash carts forced them to implement some sort of system like this. At least, that's my understanding.
Click to expand...

The 3DS doesn't have a flash cart problem like the DS did, so I don't know how much blame can be put on piracy.
 
W

Why would you do that?

Member
Uncle Rupee said:
Region locking sucks, but Nintendo was always good about this sort of thing with previous handhelds. The sheer volume of pirated DS flash carts forced them to implement some sort of system like this. At least, that's my understanding.
Click to expand...

According to Nintendo, they added the region lock due to the parental controls and different content rating systems. Some countries have 12+ ratings, others 13+, 16+, 17+, etc. ratings. Plus, some games have wildly different ratings between countries (an extreme example being Shin Megami Tensei 3, rated All Ages in Japan and M in America). If Nintendo really cared to add it due to piracy, they would have region locked DS games on DSi and 3DS. Besides, a region lock doesn't really do much to stop piracy, anyway.

Not that I agree with the region lock, nor do I think that they can't overcome it with easy measures like making out-of-region games play only with parental controls disabled.
 
G

Gannd

Banned
Don't the different rating boards have anything to do with this? Is it legal to sell a game not rated in Germany in the Germans eShop? I don't know
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
always cool to see, glad cheese is keeping the awareness/campaign going - the pressure needs to stay on so management realizes the policy's not worth it

DR2K said:
Eh Nintendo did just fine without region lock last gen,not sure why they've adapted it and enforced it even more than ever this gen.
Click to expand...

exactly, this point should also be stressed - no devs were harmed by dropping it last gen, sales indicated quite the contrary
 
ArtHands

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
The Wii U deserves to fail here with all these stupid region lock crap going on.
 
J

Jotamide

Unconfirmed Member
It would be nice if someone could put together a video showing all the games we're missing out because of the 3DS region lock (Ace Attorney vs Layton, EX Troopers, Hatsune Miku 3DS). Stuff like that always has the most impact.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
All I know is that I'd like to import certain games and I'm not willing to buy a new system to do it.

Jools Watsham and Shin’en are big Nintendo fans, aren't they?
 
G

guek

Banned
Jotamide said:
It would be nice if someone could put together a video showing all the games we're missing out because of the 3DS region lock (Ace Attorney vs Layton, EX Troopers, Hatsune Miku 3DS). Stuff like that always has the most impact.
Click to expand...

I agree. Even just a nice comprehensive list would be great.

I mean c'mon...I can't be the only one who's still bitter about Doshin the Giant...
 
P

Platy

Member
I can somehow understand WiiU being region locked .... but why a system MADE to be with you in your bag don't allow you to buy games on a trip is beyond my understanding.

Uncle Rupee said:
Region locking sucks, but Nintendo was always good about this sort of thing with previous handhelds. The sheer volume of pirated DS flash carts forced them to implement some sort of system like this. At least, that's my understanding.
Click to expand...

I think that is actualy the oposite.

Region Free gaming, Homebrew and Piracy are the 3 main reasons why flashcard exists
 
M

Magicpaint

Member
Platy said:
I can somehow understand WiiU being region locked .... but why a system MADE to be with you in your bag don't allow you to buy games on a trip is beyond my understanding.
Click to expand...

Seriously. Region locking the 3DS is truly baffling. I'm not sure what there is to gain. Region locking handhelds is a terrible (Nintendo) trend that needs to be stopped.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
Mr. Cheese, I never ever want you to stop but goddamn Nintendo are really stubborn. Doubt they listen anymore.
 
C

Cuburt

Member
Seems to me that there is reason for region locking to exist but it clearly doesn't benefit many indie devs, therefore why many quotes here seem to be against it as well as ignorant to the reasons it exists in the first place. Honestly, some of those quotes are hardly more enlightening than many forum rants I've seen on the topic regardless of their status as a developer.

The retail reasons seem to me to be the most complicated reasons for region locking and therefore the toughest nut to crack. It seems to me that distribution and localization costs factored into releases make for decisions of publishers as well as retailers more controlled. Of course, that isn't all positive or us as consumers and it's difficult for people to even recognize what positive benefits there would be as consumers.

I personally would rather play a localized game than import many Japanese games that don't make it over due to how often the games I'm interested in that don't come over are more text and menu heavy than gameplay/action oriented. I think that there are scenarios where difficulty in being able to see the actual retail performance of a game by region can make planning for localization more difficult, especially when English isn't the only language games would need to be localized in in different regions.

For indie devs and small publishers, the questions and plans are different. They might not have the budget for localization or distribution to other parts of the world. In that case, region locking really can't benefit them.

After reading about the issue for several weeks now, I'm not convinced that all region-locking has to be abolished just because other consoles are doing it since even though there is the occasional game I would import and I am disappointed in the rare cases that a game gets released/localized in Europe for instance but not in North America (it may be rare but it doesn't make it hurt any less when it's a game you want). I do think some of these indies have made a good case and I feel that Nintendo should at least consider making the eShop region-free. Just like with the restriction the Wii U had at first in Europe due to German laws, Nintendo was able to get rid of the restriction. Digital distribution requires a different perspective than retail and there can be a work around to abide by each local regulations while making it still accessible for everyone.

Then again, I'm completely willing to make most of my purchases digitally. I just think that like Microsoft trying to shoehorn the digital distribution DRM benefits into the retail realm, I'm not convinced that region-free retail is the best solution in the grand scheme of things. Region-free digital sounds like a great idea though all around to me.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
When confronted with this issue Iwata did reply with something like "hey, at least we sell our goods worldwide" which depressed me somewhat. As if it made them stand out in a positive light compared to the competition...
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
Gannd said:
Don't the different rating boards have anything to do with this? Is it legal to sell a game not rated in Germany in the Germans eShop? I don't know
Click to expand...
Not that much considering Germany is in the same region as the rest of Europe and Australia. This means games banned or censored in Germany or Australia could still be imported from elsewhere in Europe without facing region locks.
 
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