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Realtime graphics has still WAYS to go (snow rendering)

Z

zeldablue

Member
@___@

Well...Games are all about creating illusions and optimizing the crap out of everything so that it can be seen in real-time. I'm sure if someone was paid or talented enough they could make the same effect happen without the crazy render time.
 
H

Hypron

Member
zeldablue said:
@___@

Well...Games are all about creating illusions and optimizing the crap out of everything so that it can be seen in real-time. I'm sure if someone was paid or talented enough they could make the same effect happen without the crazy render time.
Click to expand...

Probably not on current gen consoles. You can optimise all you want, but complex simulations like this still require a large number of calculations.
 
L

Linkyn

Member
Nice... though it shouldn't be surprising that the physics running behind all this can be more intricate for an animated movie. Video games have to make concessions because they have to be interactive.
 
K

kazebyaka

Banned
Dizastah said:
PS5
Click to expand...
More like PS9
ps9.jpg
 
D

DeFiBkIlLeR

Banned
I'm sure in the right hands the PS4 could do this....it's just there'd be nothing left in the tank for it to do anything else.
 
T

thomasmahler

Member
zeldablue said:
I'm sure if someone was paid or talented enough they could make the same effect happen without the crazy render time.
Click to expand...

Love how you're saying paid OR talented enough :D

Don't think we'll see complex simulations just yet on this generation. Yes, there'll be some simple cloth and maybe some very simple fluid simulation shit, but all in all, this kinda shit is what takes an insane amount of computing power and rendering this stuff at this quality at 30/60fps isn't gonna happen on current specs.
 
H

Hypron

Member
wapplew said:
The infinite power of the cloud
Click to expand...

Hhehehe

But in all seriousness, the cloud wouldn't help you with real time rendering because when stuff needs to happen in real time the delay induced by sending stuff to a remote server is just to great.
 
BigTnaples

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
kazebyaka said:
More like PS9
ps9.jpg
Click to expand...



Nah. PS9 is still 50+ years away if everything goes well.


By the time PS9 comes out we will all laugh about how Avatar real time was a goal.

Hell, we will have probably reached or be near to reaching the singularity by 2064. And many of us will be dead.
 
T

TronLight

Everybody is Mikkelsexual
You can find more info on this tech here:

http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jteran/papers/SSCTS13.pdf

awesomebro said:
Would this not be resource demanding that it won't sense putting it in a game that isn't a snow oriented game?
Click to expand...

It's too demanding even for a snowball simulator game.
The faster frame took 2 minutes to render, on a 8-core Intel CPU.

zeldablue said:
@___@

Well...Games are all about creating illusions and optimizing the crap out of everything so that it can be seen in real-time. I'm sure if someone was paid or talented enough they could make the same effect happen without the crazy render time.
Click to expand...

Not if you want an accurate simulation.
Sure, they say there's still lot to optimize, and they're thinking about porting this on GPGPU, but still, no console (or PC) could handle this in real time yet.
 
R

Raist

Banned
Yeah, but at the same time it also depends a lot an artistic design more than raw calculation power. I haven't seen many games which beat MGS2's rain, for instance.
 
K

koutoru

Member
With a lot of customization, even next gen consoles can probably do this (to some extent) by the end of this generation.
 
N

NeoGash

Member
Uncharted 2 and Killzone 3 had the best snow IMO. Like, so damn good. I can only imagine what we'll see on the PS4/XB1 given the fact that some games look amazing on old hardware. I still think that Halo 4 and Killzone 3 make CoD on next-gen hardware look like utter shit.
 
K

KOHIPEET

Member
These types of simulations are extremely demanding, however I think the next generation of consoles will be able to compute such simulations without a problem. (if there will be a successor to PS/XBOX of course.)

This demo is running on a Titan which is a 4,5 teraflop card.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPJF-IY2vZ4

So within 5-6 years, when the next generation of consoles launch, their GPU should be around 5 teraflop and provided the algorythms controling this snow simulation will become available or get reproduced in a simpler way, I think we will see something that is at least similar. My assumptions only, nothing factual.

A question, what do you think, would it be viable to launch a console with a dedicated physics card? Like a GPGPU which has dumbed down graphical parameters and pumped-up for general purpose?
 
D

DMiz

Member
Looks fantastic. The only thing that looked partly strange in the video was in the very first shot where they demonstrated the snowball. The chunks that detach from the main ball slide very... unrealistically? They just look really strange, particularly since it doesn't seem like they're rolling - they're just sliding]/i] along the floor.

This is what I'm talking about:

http://youtu.be/9H1gRQ6S7gg?t=1m

As an aside, it's been years since I've taken a physics course, but it was funny to remember the term "Young's Modulus", but not what it was.
 
K

kazebyaka

Banned
KOHIPEET said:
These types of simulations are extremely demanding, however I think the next generation of consoles will be able to compute such simulations without a problem. (if there will be a successor to PS/XBOX of course.)

This demo is running on a Titan which is a 4,5 teraflop card.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPJF-IY2vZ4

So within 5-6 years, when the next generation of consoles launch, their GPU should be around 5 teraflop and provided the algorythms controling this snow simulation will become available or get reproduced in a simpler way, I think we will see something that is at least similar. My assumptions only, nothing factual.

A question, what do you think, would it be viable to launch a console with a dedicated physics card? Like a GPGPU which has dumbed down graphical parameters and pumped-up for general purpose?
Click to expand...
Even if the power is here, games need to run a fucking lot of other stuff too at the same time as these super demanding simulations. I wouldn't expect anything good till next gen or next next gen.
 
E-Cat

E-Cat

Member
KOHIPEET said:
>>So within 5-6 years, when the next generation of consoles launch, their GPU should be around 5 teraflop>>
Click to expand...

Lol. So the next-gen consoles will be only 2-3 times more powerful than the current-gen consoles? The bump in resolution alone will eat most of that up. There's no point in releasing a new console that's not at least 10 times more powerful than its predecessor. The PS3 -> PS4 transition barely passes as a generational leap in the historical sense.

By 2020, we should be looking at 20 TFLOPS, give or take a few. And even that won't be enough to warrant new consoles, IMO.
 
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Awesome. Seeing a much simpler version of this in a game, that still looks reasonably realistic, would be great.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not needing more computing power for real time graphics my @4&3 :). I have never seen a game handling snow realistically or even close so. Snow looks like it is mostly ice with some powdery stuff sprayed on top as if it were dust, games wise... This tech demo is quite amazing!
 
L

Linkstrikesback

Member
KOHIPEET said:
These types of simulations are extremely demanding, however I think the next generation of consoles will be able to compute such simulations without a problem. (if there will be a successor to PS/XBOX of course.)
Click to expand...


Not a chance in hell. Especially not in real time. Many particle fluid/solid mechanic numerical calculations like this can take hours to do even on top of the line computers. And then you have to actually render the things.

Ahmed360 said:
2 words...Quantum Computing!!
Click to expand...

Still isn't even close to being a usable thing either.
 
K

KOHIPEET

Member
E-Cat said:
Lol. So the next-gen consoles will be only 2-3 times more powerful than the current-gen consoles? The bump in resolution alone will eat most of that up. There's no point in releasing a new console that's not at least 10 times more powerful than its predecessor. The PS3 -> PS4 transition barely passes as a generational leap in the historical sense.

By 2020, we should be looking at 20 TFLOPS consoles, give or take a few.
Click to expand...

I wanted to post similar numbers at first but then I thought it sounds ridiculous.

Now, at least I'm not the only one. :) It is still ridiculous just to think about it though. Even if games will run at 4k, I can't imagine how will they look.
 
A

Ahmed360

Member
E-Cat said:
By 2020, we should be looking at 20 TFLOPS consoles, give or take a few.
Click to expand...

Come to think of it, Next-Gen should be at least 20 TFLOPs to be truly considered a Next-Gen! Mind blowing o_O
Yet, Wii U2 would be 2TF (I kiiiid I kiiiid :p)

Hopefully we'll still be around at that time (Expo 2020 will be held here in Dubai too)
 
D

Dr. Kaos

Banned
nextgeneration said:
Quoted for the truth. It really irks me when people say diminishing returns. We're still in the dinosaur age as it pertains to graphics. It's not diminishing returns. It's the fact that we're advancing at a snail's pace right now.
Click to expand...

Fully agree to everything you say. Even pre-rendered CG movies are a thousand leagues from the real deal. Sure, we get close on select scenes and select objects, but an entire movie that can fool our eyes and brains? The mere attempt would cost billions, and likely fail.

Moore's law hasn't been true for a few years as transistors just get too damn small to be shrunk anymore in the regular old way and increasing amounts of cleverness need to be used to keep things moving.

As we master 3D chip fabrication (shit is expensive) and figure out better ways to cool 3D chips (gets hot inside that cube!) AND figure out how to replace doped silicon with something more delicious, we might make some nice jumps in performance.

I hope so anyways.
 
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