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About to start Dark Souls, how should I approach this game?

A

A Sentient Keyboard

Member
Dark Souls has long been on my to-do list. With the incoming release of Dark Souls 2, the recent attention for this game over at Giant Bomb, and, if I understand this correctly, the nearing GFWL-shutdown-savewipe, I figured now would be a good time to finally see what this game is about.

Now, because I knew I wanted to play this game, I have avoided watching the many playthroughs and livestreams so I wouldn't be spoiled (mostly the traps/enemies/'boss solutions', not necessarily the story). That said, I still picked up a few things here and there through osmosis (install DSFix, the Pyromancer is a good beginner's class, shoot the dragon's tail to get the Drake Sword, praise the sun (whatever that means)).

The main reason why I haven't played Dark Souls yet is because I have no idea how to approach the game, hence this thread. I am given to understand that discovering and unlocking the secrets of Dark Souls together with other people over the internet was part of the appeal (which is why I want to finish it in time for Dark Souls 2), but obviously since I'm starting so late the information is already out there. I imagine that just looking up all the secrets in advance takes away a lot of the fun and mystique of the game.

But... should I then just jump into the game blind? Or is it perhaps better to find some sort of middle ground, like find a guide that warns me of the really nasty stuff, and maybe gives a little nudge in the right direction, but doesn't ruin the thrill of discovery? I guess the only things I'd want to know in advance are things that could really permanently hinder my effectiveness (for example "Don't equip this ring, it'll half your strength forever" or "Don't put points into this stat, it actually has a negative effect" or "Don't talk this guy, he'll lock away access to better spells forever"). But the truth is, I don't really know, which is why I've come to you people for advice. In short: how much, and what, should I know in advance to have the best (not easiest) possible time with Dark Souls?

Also, I have two unrelated questions I was looking for some help on:

1. What are some recommended beginner classes with a good balance between being viable and fun to play? I usually like a bit of versatility in these sorts of games (both melee and ranged damage, so a dagger and a bow or a sword and magic), but I can imagine that spreading your stats thin in a game already as hard as Dark Souls is not necessarily a good idea. Also, what are some recommended gifts?

2. When Brad from Giant Bomb was streaming Demon's Souls recently, someone invaded his game and attacked him with a weapon (the scraping spear?) that rapidly damaged the durability of his gear, causing all of his equipment to break. I would be ok with being invaded and killed myself, because that's just another death, but the above goes a bit too far. Are there any asshole tricks players can pull on you in Dark Souls that would screw you over in a similar way? If so, what should I be aware of and how would I defend against it? Just jump off a cliff if someone evades my game?
 
W

w1gglyjones

Member
with patience

learn the animation lengths. learn the block. learn to roll. learn the time it takes to attack and recover. don't mash. be deliberate in pressing buttons. wait and time every button press. stats are of secondary importance.
 
D

Dr. Kaos

Banned
With fear.

A lot of fear.

edit:
Ok. Decide which class you want to play and lookup which stats you should level up.
Don't attack any NPCs, but if you do and you realize your mistake, don't kill them, just run away for now. You can patch things up with them later (thank god for that!).
Whenever you feel so frustrated you want to abandon the game forever, go look up a guide, but not before then.
Realize that this is a game you play for months, not weeks. It's long and hard.
 
T

thechristoph

Sir!
Play it like it's a really complicated SNES RPG that you rented without a manual. Try and figure shit out. Die a bunch. Have a good time.
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
learn to laugh it off and try again if you die, even if you lose what seems like a lot of souls. in the long run, losing some souls is rarely a big deal. keep trying.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Umbasa.
 
C

CypherSignal

Member
This is a pretty decent primer:

QXNVwLa.jpg
Click to expand...

As well, don't forget that this game greatly rewards patience, forethought, and learning. When you die, ask yourself, "Why did I die?"
 
M

Majestad

Banned
Just play the damn game and don't ask anything, and I mean ANYTHING (other than how multiplayer works), about it.

It's the best way to experience this game. Now GTFO and play it.
 
S

Stet

Banned
Don't focus on levelling just yet, use your souls for better equipment. Don't be afraid to read a guide of an area if exploring is pissing you off.

Above all else though, don't sweat losing your collected souls. It's not really a big deal despite how shitty it seems. They come easy later on.
 
V

Velkyn

Member
A Sentient Keyboard said:
1. What are some recommended beginner classes with a good balance between being viable and fun to play? I usually like a bit of versatility in these sorts of games (both melee and ranged damage, so a dagger and a bow or a sword and magic), but I can imagine that spreading your stats thin in a game already as hard as Dark Souls is not necessarily a good idea. Also, what are some recommended gifts?

2. When Brad from Giant Bomb was streaming Demon's Souls recently, someone invaded his game and attacked him with a weapon (the scraping spear?) that rapidly damaged the durability of his gear, causing all of his equipment to break. I would be ok with being invaded and killed myself, because that's just another death, but the above goes a bit too far. Are there any asshole tricks players can pull on you in Dark Souls that would screw you over in a similar way? If so, what should I be aware of and how would I defend against it? Just jump off a cliff if someone evades my game?
Click to expand...

1. Pyromancer is probably the best to start as, but every class pretty much ends up in the same place at the end.

2. Not sure about this question tbh, in my time playing DS I was only ever invaded by people who tried to corral me off cliffs, or invaded by the forest watcher covenant (or whatever it's called) while trying to farm souls at a very profitable early farming spot. If you're worried about people doing stuff like that, just stay in zombie-mode as much as possible and you won't get invaded.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
This game is so fuckin overhyped. Not the quality, but the difficulty. It's a videogame like all the rest, learn the games rules and controls and you will succeed.

Did people write a journal to game magazines 20 years ago when they died a lot in a game?
 
D

Dire

Member
The game can be beaten by a level 1 character. Everything is viable. That's what's actually so amazing about the game. Just play it and have fun and remember everything has a weakness. Well except that Capra Demon - screw that guy. He's optional by the way. If you don't like the multiplayer aspects then simply play offline. It's still an amazing experience.
 
S

Stet

Banned
zoukka said:
This game is so fuckin overhyped. Not the quality, but the difficulty. It's a videogame like all the rest, learn the games rules and controls and you will succeed.

Did people write a journal to game magazines 20 years ago when they died a lot in a game?
Click to expand...

What? Yes, they wrote letters all the time. There were sections devoted to them.
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
Remember not to go anywhere unfamiliar with your feet leading your head. That is to say, the game likes to ambush you. A lot. If there's a door where you can't see either side of it well before you approach, there's a good chance there are enemies there you can't see.

Nothing is insurmountable because of your level. Some things may be way harder because of your equipment. Experiment with different setups, find what works for you, don't assume you need to go grind souls because you can't beat a boss. Chances are you just haven't figured out the best way to fight them yet.

Don't use boss souls unless you have checked what weapon they make and have decided that you don't want it.

Remember, death is not a huge punishment. Yeah, losing 20k souls may be devastating early on, but once you learn to let go, it's basically nothing. You can earn souls back easily. Don't get frustrated just because you died. If you learned something from your death (and 90% of the time, you will), then it was a success.
 
O

Outright Villainy

Member
1) Pay attention to enemy attack patterns before engaging yourself. Play passively and wait until you know when's a good time to attack, then hit once and retreat if you can't kill them in the follow up swing, as you'll be without stamina to block or evade after. This isn't hard set but until you learn about stunlocking and stamina management through playing naturally, it's better to be over cautious than too cocky 99% of the time.

2) Shield up if you don't know what's ahead. This will save your life. Your stamina regains quicker when your shield is down so lowering at the right time during combat is essential, but for basics keep your shield up as much as you can. Don't worry about parrying for now.

3) Explore. Tons of secrets, hidden weapons, valuable upgrades, and you can also easily go the wrong way early on. If you find some place too hard, look somewhere else and come back later.

4) Praise the sun!

1. What are some recommended beginner classes with a good balance between being viable and fun to play? I usually like a bit of versatility in these sorts of games (both melee and ranged damage, so a dagger and a bow or a sword and magic), but I can imagine that spreading your stats thin in a game already as hard as Dark Souls is not necessarily a good idea. Also, what are some recommended gifts?
Click to expand...

Starting class doesn't matter, since you can turn any class into whatever you want. There's no unique weapons, spells or gear you can't just aquire through normal play. It's more important how you end up than how you start. Quality build is good for starting, i.e. a fairly even distribution between Str and Dex, instead of Int and Faith. Upgrading and using melee effectively is easier than spells, and is generally more fun anyway. To get some of the more fun magic you'd probably want a guide or a lot of time, which is better off on a second playthrough. No matter what your build however, Vitality and endurance are never a wasted point also, so if you don't know what to upgrade just start with those.

All that said, minmaxing is in no way necessary. You can finish the game at level 1 (and I have), so don't panic if you think you've wasted some points. Just put your next points into something more useful and carry on. Also if you spread your points evenly you can even get a consolation prize in crafting a kickass boss sword that has moderate stat requirements in every stat so look forward to that. Minmaxing is only really needed in dedicated PvP.

2. When Brad from Giant Bomb was streaming Demon's Souls recently, someone invaded his game and attacked him with a weapon (the scraping spear?) that rapidly damaged the durability of his gear, causing all of his equipment to break. I would be ok with being invaded and killed myself, because that's just another death, but the above goes a bit too far. Are there any asshole tricks players can pull on you in Dark Souls that would screw you over in a similar way? If so, what should I be aware of and how would I defend against it? Just jump off a cliff if someone evades my game?
Click to expand...

Aside from hackers (which are more rare than people say, even on pc), the worst an invader can do is kill you. They might use the dark hand to steal some of your humanity, but that's rare, not a big deal, and extremely easy to avoid anyway. Maybe try retreating closer to the last bonfire so it'll be easier to retrieve your souls, but other than you should just try and fight them, you can get good rewards
 
dugdug

dugdug

Banned
A Sentient Keyboard said:
2. When Brad from Giant Bomb was streaming Demon's Souls recently, someone invaded his game and attacked him with a weapon (the scraping spear?) that rapidly damaged the durability of his gear, causing all of his equipment to break. I would be ok with being invaded and killed myself, because that's just another death, but the above goes a bit too far. Are there any asshole tricks players can pull on you in Dark Souls that would screw you over in a similar way? If so, what should I be aware of and how would I defend against it? Just jump off a cliff if someone evades my game?
Click to expand...

Nope. Souls Tip #2983798: don't be a wuss. MAN UP AND TAKE IT.
 
T

takriel

Member
Take your time, learn to be patient. There is a learning curve, but once you've familiarized yourself with the game's mechanics, you'll start to get the hang of it. Eventually, you will find that the game isn't that difficult. It's mostly the little and big mistakes you make that get you killed.

Oh yes, if you're interested in the story (as you should be), make sure to read the item descriptions! They will tell you a lot of things that you will miss otherwise.

Other than that, just have fun! And prepare to die...
 
A

A Sentient Keyboard

Member
Alright, I already see some good advice in this thread, thanks, I appreciate the help.

I think I'm just going to stick to that image and perhaps some other tips, but aside from that go in blind. Wish me luck!
 
K

KarmaCow

Member
Just jump in. For the essential stuff, the game is not as arcane as people make it out to be. Don't let the game's reputation steer you in the wrong direction. The game is pretty fair so if you're running into a brick wall, you're most likely missing something.

Well except for maybe Humanity/hollowing. All you need to know about that is when you die, you become hollow. It's easy to tell if you're hollow because you'll look like beef jerky. It's the lowest possible state, so if you die again, you'll still be hollow. You don't lose any stats, the only difference is that you're world is cut off from the online portion. You cannot summon people into your world and you can't be invaded, however you'll get an item (White Soapstone) which will let you place a marker where others can summon you into their world.

The counterpart to this being human. You do this by using up a humanity (the number on the top left) at any bonfire by using the reverse hollowing option. Once you're human, you world is part of the online community meaning you can be invaded and summon people into your world. But again, if you die you become hollow again and need to use another humanity to become human.

There are some more details but it's not too important. Just play the game and you'll figure out the other essential portions. If not, ask people specific questions when you get there and feel stuck.

As for your question, starting class means very little. The stat spread is fairly low so you can easily level up and completely change your stats. Weapons/Armour dictate your playstyle than your stats directly. You can check what each stat does by pressing the back button the 360 when on a stat screen to get more details about every single stat in the game. Don't put points into resistance though, it's not worth it.

Also durability is not a huge problem. The repair cost is relatively low and it's more of a minor annoyance once you get the ability to repair your gear at any bonfire.
 
S

Steez

Member
Majestad said:
Just play the damn game and don't ask anything, and I mean ANYTHING (other than how multiplayer works), about it.

It's the best way to experience this game. Now GTFO and play it.
Click to expand...

This is actually the best advice so far.

It was frustrating at times, but playing both Souls games completely blind is among my most memorable gaming experiences ever. Being in a completely new world and trying to figure out shit on my own is the best thing about Dark Souls 2.

Don't rob yourself of an amazing experience, OP.
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
I started too a few days ago, and have defeated the Taurus boss. Up to that dragon on the bridge, and I had a chat with SunBro.

I would personally avoid becoming human because I got invaded by an overlevelled asshole who punched me to death with all of my health intact in one hit. At least unlike poor Brad Shoemaker, didn't break any of my weapons or whatever trolling happened there.

Mostly what I have been doing is pouring all my points into endurance, and perfecting the parries and backstabs. Gosh, they're so satisfying.

ibl7olXaDMiGQw.gif


And I'll be avoiding the Drake Sword, because people say it's cheap and I want the challenge.
 
J

Johnlenham

Member
A Sentient Keyboard said:
Alright, I already see some good advice in this thread, thanks, I appreciate the help.

I think I'm just going to stick to that image and perhaps some other tips, but aside from that go in blind. Wish me luck!
Click to expand...

Beating the first boss (you will know when, hes got a big hammer) is pretty good training as well.
 
H

HardRojo

Member
You should prepare by Praising the Sun!
Seriously, be cautious, no rush, this is not a hack and slash game so take your time and lock on!
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Stet said:
What? Yes, they wrote letters all the time. There were sections devoted to them.
Click to expand...

But not in the vein of "how do I prepare to play megaman, what kind of tools, life-lessons and books do I need to not crumble apart when I boot the game".

You don't need to know anything about dark souls before you start.
 
D

Dire

Member
zoukka said:
This game is so fuckin overhyped. Not the quality, but the difficulty. It's a videogame like all the rest, learn the games rules and controls and you will succeed.

Did people write a journal to game magazines 20 years ago when they died a lot in a game?
Click to expand...

20 years ago it wasn't standard operating practice to immediately gimp the difficulty of your game if just one person in your focus group actually managed to somehow not casually beat an area.

To stay on topic - I agree with the above. Don't treat this game like Assassin's Creed. If you see a hoard of enemies and you jump in with little more than a dagger and lots of enthusiasm - you're not going to come out on top.
 
D

Dr Dogg

Member
Only 3 tips I can really advise are.

1). Take your time. I know others have said it but nearly every aspect of this game is one of patients.

2). Talk to and listen to what every NPC has to say. They will always give hints as where to go and what to do in certain areas.

3). Read item descriptions. It may seam trivial but there are lots of hints if you get stuck in the descriptions. That and there's lots of the games story in them as well.

Anything else you'll pick up on your own and seeking out any other information has the potential to spoil you.

End of the day enjoy what is a fantastic game.
 
S

ShockingAlberto

Member
Durability isn't a huge issue unless A) you are relying on one weapon (which is easy to do) and B) you weren't aware that an enemy's attack would break your weapon.

So general rule of thumb: If something looks like it's vomiting, get out of the way, and switch your weapon to something you do not care about.
 
F

fade_

Member
If you're having trouble with blocking timing try turtling with a spear or rapier which allows you to attack while blocking until you can get the timing down.
 
Sanctuary

Sanctuary

Member
A Sentient Keyboard said:
But... should I then just jump into the game blind? Or is it perhaps better to find some sort of middle ground, like find a guide that warns me of the really nasty stuff, and maybe gives a little nudge in the right direction, but doesn't ruin the thrill of discovery?
Click to expand...

Jump in blind. About the only time you should bother looking anything up is if a) you keep dying to a boss repeatedly and don't know what to do and b) are getting really sick of your current weapon, want to know the upgrade paths for it, or where to possibly find a better weapon.

I guess the only things I'd want to know in advance are things that could really permanently hinder my effectiveness (for example "Don't equip this ring, it'll half your strength forever" or "Don't put points into this stat, it actually has a negative effect" or "Don't talk this guy, he'll lock away access to better spells forever").
Click to expand...

There's not really anything like that since you can just keep leveling to overcompensate for early mistakes if you want to. Just learn how to riposte and back stab. You'll probably die a lot early on learning how to do it, but once you get it down it will make most non bosses relatively cake.


1. What are some recommended beginner classes with a good balance between being viable and fun to play?
Click to expand...

"Classes" in the Souls games are just pre-allocated stats and starting gear. After a few levels, they are all the same. The Pyro isn't just a good "beginner" class, it's one of the best because it's such a blank sheet in terms of allocated stats. Plus, Pyromancy doesn't scale with any stats, but your Pyromancy flame, so if you had a specific soul level that you wanted to stop at (Most stop at 125 if they PvP), you don't have to worry about raising levels to get stronger Pyromancies, unlike Miracles requiring Faith, and Sorceries INT. The Pyromancer also starts with some of the most useful armor due to the resistances.

I usually like a bit of versatility in these sorts of games (both melee and ranged damage, so a dagger and a bow or a sword and magic), but I can imagine that spreading your stats thin in a game already as hard as Dark Souls is not necessarily a good idea. Also, what are some recommended gifts?
Click to expand...

Yeah, don't spread yourself too thin. Pick a "main" stat to focus on (DEX or STR or DEX + STR, or INT or FA). The main thing you'll want to do for pretty much every PvE build, until you start setting limits is to take your END to 40, and not beyond, unless you *really* want slightly more carrying capacity. Past 40 and it doesn't affect your stamina bar, just carrying. Honestly, for your first time, your best bet is to just do some form of "quality" build. That's where you put points into DEX and STR. This will mostly allow you to use pretty much any weapon you might find that's not specifically FA or INT (rare). You'll also have Pyromancies if you picked Pyro to back you up. Just dump your points into DEX and STR to meet the requirements of the gear you find and then stop until you get your END to around 30 and your VIT at a comfortable level, and then continue raising DEX and STR for damage scaling.

If you decide to do some kind of caster build (FA/INT) you might want to consider raising DEX to 40 - 45 much later on anyway. It gives a boost to casting speed, but whether or not it's worth it is up to you, but it also will open up more weapons to choose from. Most also don't go beyond 27 STR. When you two-hand a weapon, you get 1.5x of your STR applied. The only real reason to go past 27 STR is if you want to one-hand a weapon that has a STR requirement that's higher than that.

Also, get a good physical resistant shield (as in 100% physical reduction) and upgrade it to increase stability. Stability affects how much of your stamina bar is taken away by enemy attacks when you block with a shield. The higher the stability, the less risk you are of having your entire bar depleted in only one or two attacks. And you will want a good shield for one of the earlier bosses (probably the first real "WTF" boss for many).
 
I

ihearthawthats

Banned
Not sure if I agree with #3 and #4. They are generally optimal, but a defensive playstyle is certainly viable if that's what you prefer. Just need a good shield.

In regards to spreading yourself too thin, dagger and bow are both tied to dex, and for magic there are both int and faith tied weapons, along with elemental weapons tied to nothing. They are all viable, unless you're the minmax type.
 
D

Dire

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Durability isn't a huge issue unless A) you are relying on one weapon (which is easy to do) and B) you weren't aware that an enemy's attack would break your weapon.

So general rule of thumb: If something looks like it's vomiting, get out of the way, and switch your weapon to something you do not care about.
Click to expand...

Certain weapons also have really neat attacks you can activate which have a tendency of turning themselves into heaps of rust in no time should you decide to do so.
 
H

Hedge

Member
I bought it at release and have like 50-60 hours on it.. still haven't made it into
Sen's Fortress
because I'm no champ.
 
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