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Sony's official policy on two-dimensional games

P

Porridge

Member
Interesting thread over at 4chan's gaming board
http://zip.4channel.org/v/res/407470.html

Amazing bits like Konami threatening Sony with no Metal Gear for the PS1 in the N. American market if they wouldn't approve Castlevania: SoTN

Also an excerpt from official Sony documents on how they basically want to phase out 2D gaming altogether (excluding puzzle games) (including Asian markets)

Also, a bit about Working Desgins being denied approval for Dragon Force PS2?
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
It sorta made sense at the time, force the lazier developers to change over to 3D. Now that 3D games have been standard for almost 10 years, Sony should really ease up on the 2D hate.
 
S

SiegfriedFM

Member
But is it really lazier developers that do 2D nowadays, considering that (new) sprites take much longer to do? And many games and genres still need 2D as a artistical and gameplay option.
 
Z

Zerodoppler

Member
If true, is this really a problem? I think most developers are aware that if you want sales, you go 3d. I can't imagine that many projects (at least for PS2 and PSP) have been shot down because of this. Besides, if the developers had their faith in a 2d project, why not take it to Microsoft or Nintendo instead?
 
U

Ulairi

Banned
Zerodoppler said:
If true, is this really a problem? I think most developers are aware that if you want sales, you go 3d. I can't imagine that many projects (at least for PS2 and PSP) have been shot down because of this. Besides, if the developers had their faith in a 2d project, why not take it to Microsoft or Nintendo instead?
Click to expand...

They have. When the market leader says "No 2d" it means that most publishers aren't going to fund 2d games.
 
E

elostyle

Never forget! I'm Dumb!
Zerodoppler said:
If true, is this really a problem? I think most developers are aware that if you want sales, you go 3d. I can't imagine that many projects (at least for PS2 and PSP) have been shot down because of this. Besides, if the developers had their faith in a 2d project, why not take it to Microsoft or Nintendo instead?
Click to expand...
Yes it is a problem if the alternative to SotN would have been a PSX version of Castlevania 64.

One of the very best games ever would not exist.
 
C

CB3

intangibles, motherfucker
Yup i remember problems with Capcom wanting the MegaMan X series on the PSX and sony not wanting it at first because they didnt want their system to look too much like the SNES
 
E

evil ways

Member
A lot of casual gamers also have the mentality of "2D= old & cartoony, 3D=new & better" which sometimes sends the wrong message to developers.
 
B

Bartman3010

Banned
Plus theres people who reasonably price their 2D games to sell on the system.

I just dislike the fact that 2D gameplay is weaker financially, because nobody wants to pay full price for a 2D game anymore. Not a whole lot of people, anyway.

Sadly, this policy of theirs is part of the reason why people got out of gaming, because back in the PSX/N64 days, 3D games were extremely hard for newcomers to get into, people saying that they had 'No time' to play a game, which I feel 3D gaming has enforced this thought onto people. Its not as simple to play as 2D.
 
Z

Zerodoppler

Member
elostyle said:
Yes it is a problem if the alternative to SotN would have been a PSX version of Castlevania 64.

One of the very best games ever would not exist.
Click to expand...

The 2d ban was by Sony of America if I understand correctly, so the game would have existed regardless. The point is, there are other consoles to put your games on. If you only dare to put in on the market leading platform, I say you are most likely after easy money from as many "misinformed suckers" as possible.
 
E

elostyle

Never forget! I'm Dumb!
Zerodoppler said:
The 2d ban was by Sony of America if I understand correctly, so the game would have existed regardless. The point is, there are other consoles to put your games on. If you only dare to put in on the market leading platform, I say you are most likely after easy money from as many "misinformed suckers" as possible.
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It was also released on the saturn but the point is that if sony had killed it for the states, it would have maybe not even be developed.

SotN likely had a smaller budget, but it was going for easy money?? The higher budget 3D castlevanias suck tremendiusly compared to SotN. All of them.
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
There's also some weird shit about not being able to release PS1/PS2 games on the same compilation. Stuff like the Namco lightgun collection with Gunbarl and Point Blank were forbidden to include PS2 games. Well, at least that's what I heard.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Uh...is there any, like, proof or documentation? Or is this just some claim? I mean, I see he cites a document but that document is not produced in its original format and I don't know where I can look at this document on my own.
 
E

elostyle

Never forget! I'm Dumb!
Oh, also, Valkyrie Profile 2(2d) was denied. Just another little nugget of joy.
---
Arc the Lad was released at that time because THAT is when the no-2d policy for the PSONE was lifted. It wasn't being approved until that point.

Also WD has stated many times they had problems getting these games approved for release. Dragon Force is a prime example, a saturn classic that should have been approved in the blink of an eye if Sony really didn't have a policy against 2d.

Also, Growlanser was forced to be bundled against WD's will, making them lose immense profits as the voice actors costed them just as much as any 3d game would. Sony simply didn't give a damn about WD and knew damn well they were going to kill the company.

As for bloated special editions...I LOVED them. I'm glad I got Lunar Silver Star Story Complete with the cloth map and OST included. Plus the box that held it was freaking sweet. He gave us hardcore fans exactly what we wanted.

Oh, another little nugget of joy. Sony of America charges a fee for every cd included with a game. Whether it's an OST, a bonus disc, whatever. Devs get charged for including EXTRA content, thats why we never see special editions in America. So think about that before you bash WD.
Click to expand...
O_O
 
L

Liquid

Banned
Y2Kevbug11 said:
Uh...is there any, like, proof or documentation? Or is this just some claim? I mean, I see he cites a document but that document is not produced in its original format and I don't know where I can look at this document on my own.
Click to expand...
i've never seen the document in its original form... but it is pretty old. like 2, 3 years old. the source, iirc, was "game underground" or something like that.

edit:

link
 
T

teepo

Member
Himuro said:
MS allows 2d fighters to be on xbox AND let them have online support, so I'm inclined to agree.
Click to expand...

wow. golly gee. so sony for some reason allowed guilty gear and the various 2d capcom fighters to come out FIRST on the ps2 but for some reason they didn't allow them to have online play. could this be because of xbox live and the laziness of the developers/publishers? MAYBE!!!!
 
H

HomerSimpson-Man

Member
Why does is everything so fine and dandy with SCEJ and hardass with SCEA? Even amoung SCEE there is tension between the two about publishing each other games in regions. With them all being under one roof now will it change any of this?
 
H

HomerSimpson-Man

Member
teepo said:
wow. golly gee. so sony for some reason allowed guilty gear and the various 2d capcom fighters to come out FIRST on the ps2 but for some reason they didn't allow them to have online play. could this be because of xbox live and the laziness of the developers/publishers? MAYBE!!!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, Capcom also had online components for some of their PS2 fighters in Japan, they removed them over here, why? Ask Capcom.
 
S

SKOPE

Member
Did this guy just rewrite Zach Meston's exaggerated, sensational, obnoxious, anti-SCEA rant from a year or two ago?

These guys are making a whole lot allegations without anything to back them up with. I want proof.

A lot of which I'm sure isn't true. No 2D games on the PlayStation until near the end of its life? From late 1996 until its death, SCEA had no problem with publishers, small and large alike, releasing 2D games and selling them for full price. (And it didn't seem to have a problem with 2D games on the PS2 until 2002.)
 
H

HomerSimpson-Man

Member
I don't know what to make of all this. Heck my sister was just playing Atelier Iris: Eternal Mana, and that is a 2D RPG published by NIS America this year. Not really a massive company or anything. Then again Metal Slug 3 was denied over here, they don't like older games perhaps.
 
T

teepo

Member
sony's best decision this entire gen was not allowing snk to sell metal slug 4 as a stand alone product and charge full price for it.
 
Z

Zweisy1

Member
Yeah, Sony's plain annoying with their policies and unreliable hardware. Easily the least likeable out of the console manufacturers.

Too bad they have the biggest amout of great 3rd party software so I cant exactly boycott them even if I wanted to...
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
I don't know why this is surprising to folks. Some of this is well known especially the WD related stuff. Vic's constantly spoken out about this before. The disc issue is true as far as I know, even ferricide commented on that in his blog about WD's demise.
 
H

HomerSimpson-Man

Member
*sighs*

The demise of WD this gen is still a sore spot for me, I just love their dedication and all that extras. So that's why we don't have any special editions come over here. :|
 
E

elostyle

Never forget! I'm Dumb!
Tain said:
Yeah, I'm definitely not buying a word of this until there's something more solid.
Click to expand...
If you want stamped, signed and watermarked documents then that won't happen.
 
T

Tain

Member
You think?

This whole thing just sounds incredibly exagerrated. I know Sony has a general distaste for 2D, and I know titles have been denied, but this sounds like a gigantic knee-jerk reaction.
 
E

elostyle

Never forget! I'm Dumb!
Tain said:
You think?

This whole thing just sounds incredibly exagerrated. I know Sony has a general distaste for 2D, and I know titles have been denied, but this sounds like a gigantic knee-jerk reaction.
Click to expand...
Sony rejects games that you'll never hear about - not only 2D. News of some of your favorite games being held back, almost killed and sequels prevented can obviously upset someone.
 
I

IVYLancets

Banned
I remember a pretty harsh review and article about one of the first Playstation Games, called Gunner's Heaven. It was like a Gunstar Heroes rip-off, only it was a single-player game. The review ripped it to shredds while comparing it to and stating that even Gunstar Heroes on the old Genesis mopped the floor with Gunner's Heaven in every possible way.

I imagine that wasn't something Sony was happy about. And I have always wondered if this was a factor in Sony's denial of 2D games most of the time. It was either Gamefan or EGM that ripped into that game and just made the Playstation look silly.
 
L

Liquid

Banned
Bluemercury said:
The amount of damage control from sonywhores is incredible, keep up..... :lol
Click to expand...
incredible damage control? where?

anyway, why not let them release the games and let us decide whether to buy them or not.
 
E

elostyle

Never forget! I'm Dumb!
IVYLancets said:
I remember a pretty harsh review and article about one of the first Playstation Games, called Gunner's Heaven. It was like a Gunstar Heroes rip-off, only it was a single-player game. The review ripped it to shredds while comparing it to and stating that even Gunstar Heroes on the old Genesis mopped the floor with Gunner's Heaven in every possible way.

I imagine that wasn't something Sony was happy about. And I have always wondered if this was a factor in Sony's denial of 2D games most of the time. It was either Gamefan or EGM that ripped into that game and just made the Playstation look silly.
Click to expand...
It would have rather been the 3DO and Jaguar that lead to this decision.
 
H

Hero

Member
Anybody who thinks Sony isn't to blame for the lack of 2D games this past generation is sucking the sonycock.
 
Pimpbaa

Pimpbaa

Member
Goddamnit, did I go back in time again? I could have sworn this was the end of the ps2's lifespan and not the beginning of the ps1's.
 
C

callous

Member
As far as I can tell, there are still way more 2D games on Sony consoles than on any other non-portable platform these last two generations.

I see no reason to believe this stuff. For all we know, he could have just typed it all up for the hell of it. I kinda think he did. Show me scans or begone.
 
F

Fatghost

Gas Guzzler
teepo said:
sony's best decision this entire gen was not allowing snk to sell metal slug 4 as a stand alone product and charge full price for it.
Click to expand...


Yes, and their worst decision was denying Metal Slug 3 from coming over here :(


Although, it does appear that MS3 could have come out if SNK was willing to either budget price it or bundle it.
 
T

teepo

Member
Hero said:
Anybody who thinks Sony isn't to blame for the lack of 2D games this past generation is sucking the sonycock.
Click to expand...

where the hell are the 2d games on the xbox and gc? don't even spin my question, just try answer it.

the only blame for the lack of 2d games are the consumers, who are the ones who decide where this market is going.
 
M

MoxManiac

Member
I saw something buried in those posts that made my heart stop for a few seconds..

Oh, also, Valkyrie Profile 2(2d) was denied. Just another little nugget of joy.
Click to expand...

God, that had better not be true.
 
T

Tain

Member
Anybody who thinks Sony isn't to blame for the lack of 2D games this past generation is sucking the sonycock.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it has nothing to do with consumers not buying 2D titles for the system that has the most of them.
 
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