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Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney SPOILER Thread | Burn the witch

massoluk

Banned
The ending is incredibly bad. Holy shit.

There's no magic, but this guy hypnotized everyone for ten years and the water makes people pass out when silver is rung. Also there are invisible people and machines everywhere faking the magic.

What.

I have an incurable illness.

Wait what.

It was just cured.

What.

Haha. Yup. I can take most of the explanations though, some weird plant extract that let you hypnotize people, ok fine. Mind control turned shits, invisible, why not.

But Silver bell sleep magic was the weirdest shit. This thing in the underground water caused people to go to sleep at the sound of a bell, specifically a bell made entire of silver. Uh.. yeah, no.
 

SodiumEyes

Neo Member
There also isn't any explaination for how Phoenix and Maya ended up in Labryinthia. We know that everyone who ended up there had to sign a contract agreeing to be mind-controlled, and Darklaw didn't kidnap them, because she outright says that she had no intentions of bringing them during the ending.
 

Kalor

Member
There also isn't any explaination for how Phoenix and Maya ended up in Labryinthia. We know that everyone who ended up there had to sign a contract agreeing to be mind-controlled, and Darklaw didn't kidnap them, because she outright says that she had no intentions of bringing them during the ending.

While I don't remember the exact details from when I played it. I think Phoenix and Maya had to be brought to Labyrinthia as they had some of the magic ink after the first trial. Since they would be under the effects of it, it was safer to bring them to Labyrinthia rather than leaving them.
 
"We really have to do something about that bell tower; Espella might see it and relive her trauma!"

Option 1: Demolish or dismantle the tower.
Option 2: COVER IT IN A HUGE PURE BLACK ROBE AND HOPE NO ONE WALKS INTO IT, HOPE LEAVES NEVER LAND ON IT, HOPE NO ONE EVER NOTICES ITS SHADOW, HOPE NO ONE'S HYPNOSIS WEARS OFF, AND HOPE LIGHTNING NEVER STRIKES IT TO BURN THE CLOTH DOWN.

All tragedies in the game would've been averted if they just demolished the tower instead of cover it in a big magic trick.
 

Niraj

I shot people I like more for less.
"We really have to do something about that bell tower; Espella might see it and relive her trauma!"

Option 1: Demolish or dismantle the tower.
Option 2: COVER IT IN A HUGE PURE BLACK ROBE AND HOPE NO ONE WALKS INTO IT, HOPE LEAVES NEVER LAND ON IT, HOPE NO ONE EVER NOTICES ITS SHADOW, HOPE NO ONE'S HYPNOSIS WEARS OFF, AND HOPE LIGHTNING NEVER STRIKES IT TO BURN THE CLOTH DOWN.

All tragedies in the game would've been averted if they just demolished the tower instead of cover it in a big magic trick.

If only they had some kind of machinery at hand to help them out with such a difficult task...
 
Just finished it. I really liked it, even though it got a bit... generic at the end with the twist, but I actually really appreciated how it all still made "sense" in the context of the game world. It was pretty out-there, but... I didn't mind, ridiculous as it was.

By the way: any other gay people playing this get a tinge of resonance, what with witches having to hide themselves from everyone out of fear? I wasn't expecting to think back on my earlier years, but it happened! I didn't get sad or anything... I just couldn't help but draw parallels. Am I alone?

Speaking of... the Alchemist case was by far the best for me in this game. Man... I legitimately got emotional with the whole Jean/Belduke thing. The music that played for the revelations was heartbreaking, my god. It was so obvious she had jumped to conclusions from seeing just glances of the letter, but the whole section where Jean is reading the suicide letter out loud to the court and we find out the truth... and just knowing how she felt and why she "did" what she did beforehand... it all just crept up and made me teary-eyed, goddamn. I could imagine the guilt perfectly like I never have in any of the other AA games. Knowingly doing something, but then finding out you didn't actually cause the result, all while living with the idea that you did; and then feeling the guilt all over again like a ton of bricks once you learn how even more wrong your actions would have been had you actually been the one to have "done" it, yet you can't ignore what you felt and still feel responsible somehow. That's so fucked up, especially since she's so young and smart.

Truly, truly one of my favorite cases and revelations in any AA game. The track that plays is so tragic and beautiful :(


The final puzzle was super easy it was almost offensive, BUT I really liked how they handled it by having Cornered - Spell-breaker still playing as we transitioned to the puzzle and all throughout solving it. It's such a blood-pumping track... it's probably my favorite Cornered theme. It's so fucking good. That's mainly why I really enjoyed the final puzzle; it really felt like this was it--the home stretch! I just wish the track played more.
 

JediLink

Member
This might be a little premature given the game's barely out
Au contraire - I bought, played, finished and shelved this game months ago.

It was pretty good, but the ending twist really dampered my overall enjoyment. As they kept explaining more and more, my suspension of disbelief got really strained. Eventually I couldn't take it anymore. A guy's daughter is mentally unstable, so his grand solution is to create a giant hidden medieval town that somehow no one knows about, keep its inhabitants constantly drugged, build "invisible" machines everywhere (that of course never get any dirt or discolouration on them), have "witches" constantly followed around by "invisible" people, and no one ever notices a thing. Yeah, no. What the fuck.

EDIT: I just read the thread, it seems I'm not alone.
 
Agreed with everyone about the twist. Just awful. I enjoyed the game but at that point I stopped giving a shit about the story. Really brought down my overall opinion of the game.

I really hated the final twist, not just because it's absurd and nonsensical, but because it basically destroyed all the investment in the world that the game had been building the entire time. I wrote a blog post about the problems I had with the twist.


But I started playing the bonus episodes and they're really great. They almost feel like Shu Takumi's apology for the terrible ending. I'm looking forward to revisiting some of the characters that got completely brushed under the rug in the main game.

Read this blog post before when you posted it in the ot. You nailed it and I agree 100%.
 

VegiHam

Member
I mean, like, are none of you guys Layton fans or something? I would've been really disappointed if the game hadn't ended like it did.

If they'd left it as 'yup, witches and magic; now home to your parallel dimension' then I'd've had to dismiss the whole game as a non-canon mess; but instead it ended in a way that really felt like a part of the Layton universe. Felt like Ace Attorney having a go at doing a Layton plot. I can understand being disappointed if you were expecting Ace Attorney guest starring Layton; but it's the Layton team and his name's first in the title so it wasn't unexpected to me.
 
I mean, like, are none of you guys Layton fans or something? I would've been really disappointed if the game hadn't ended like it did.

If they'd left it as 'yup, witches and magic; now home to your parallel dimension' then I'd've had to dismiss the whole game as a non-canon mess; but instead it ended in a way that really felt like a part of the Layton universe. Felt like Ace Attorney having a go at doing a Layton plot. I can understand being disappointed if you were expecting Ace Attorney guest starring Layton; but it's the Layton team and his name's first in the title so it wasn't unexpected to me.

Guilty as charged. Never played a Layton game before. It just felt like a massive cop out that left you with more questions than it answered.
 

VegiHam

Member
Guilty as charged. Never played a Layton game before.
Ah. Well in that case I'm sorry.

I guess I enjoyed the game more because the whole time I was working from the point of view of 'magic can't possibly be real'. I mean there's no magic in either of these series and both of them explain away the supernatural all the time. Like the Phoenix Wright case with the flying man who, surprise, can't fly. So I was waiting all game for the heroes to unravel the world itself. I guess if you bought into the magic and were expecting the end to just solve the Bezella mystery or something then you'd have a very different experience than I did....
 

MrBadger

Member
I mean, like, are none of you guys Layton fans or something? I would've been really disappointed if the game hadn't ended like it did.

If they'd left it as 'yup, witches and magic; now home to your parallel dimension' then I'd've had to dismiss the whole game as a non-canon mess; but instead it ended in a way that really felt like a part of the Layton universe. Felt like Ace Attorney having a go at doing a Layton plot. I can understand being disappointed if you were expecting Ace Attorney guest starring Layton; but it's the Layton team and his name's first in the title so it wasn't unexpected to me.

I've played every Layton game from Lost Future onwards, but I've also played Ghost Trick and Trials and Tribulations, which have supernatural elements with a set of rules that they follow, which still makes solving mysteries fun and entertaining. A self-contained story where magic is real would have been better than this, and it wouldn't have let Layton steal the show as much.

Also I don't think it's the "no magic" thing that's bad, it's how it's implemented in a way that doesn't feel like it was planned from the start. I mean, play Lost Future and then play this. Without going into specifics, the reveal in that game is big and ridiculous, but it doesn't open up more mysteries than it solves and it feels like that's the way the writers were always taking the story.
 
Ah. Well in that case I'm sorry.

I guess I enjoyed the game more because the whole time I was working from the point of view of 'magic can't possibly be real'. I mean there's no magic in either of these series and both of them explain away the supernatural all the time. Like the Phoenix Wright case with the flying man who, surprise, can't fly. So I was waiting all game for the heroes to unravel the world itself. I guess if you bought into the magic and were expecting the end to just solve the Bezella mystery or something then you'd have a very different experience than I did....

I guess I bought into it because it was a crazy crossover so I went in with the mindset that anything was possible. And honestly I would have been fine with the twist if all the details weren't so ridiculous. But yeah, from the sounds of it I probably would have seen it coming if I was more familiar with Layton.
 

VegiHam

Member
I've played every Layton game from Lost Future onwards, but I've also played Ghost Trick and Trials and Tribulations, which have supernatural elements with a set of rules that they follow, which still makes solving mysteries fun and entertaining. A self-contained story where magic is real would have been better than this, and it wouldn't have let Layton steal the show as much.

Also I don't think it's the "no magic" thing that's bad, it's how it's implemented in a way that doesn't feel like it was planned from the start. I mean, play Lost Future and then play this. Without going into specifics, the reveal in that game is big and ridiculous, but it doesn't open up more mysteries than it solves and it feels like that's the way the writers were always taking the story.
That's a valid opinion. All I can say is that's not how it felt to me when I played. I still enjoyed the fun off solving mysteries through the 'rules' of magic even if the game took that apart at the end. And with how the DLC explains some of the early magic I don't feel there are any obvious plot holes. I got the impression for sure this was where they were going, with all that stuff about Eve the cat. I totally agree Layton stole the show but it would've felt dishonest to the characters to try and make Wright as smart as him so I'm not sure what you can do really.

But again, I guess we just had different experiences with it. It's a shame not everyone could enjoy it as much as I did but I can totally see why you wouldn't.
I guess I bought into it because it was a crazy crossover so I went in with the mindset that anything was possible. And honestly I would have been fine with the twist if all the details weren't so ridiculous. But yeah, from the sounds of it I probably would have seen it coming if I was more familiar with Layton.
Yeah man, crazy details at the end is totally like Layton's whole thing. I can see why you'd go for it; guess I just had a lucky hunch :p
 

hupla

Member
So like the entire first case i was working from the idea that one of the thugs dropped the wine they where seen with in the photo/their.clothes where covered in alchool and thats wht causedthem to catch on fire. Anyone else?
 

VLiberty

Member
So the final twist everyone were talking about was this very Layton-esque thing that felt like a mix of the final twists of the 3 first Layton games. At first I was broken at how awful I thought the twist was to the story... but only moments after it was justified IMHO. The story built upon the twist in a way that made the whole story come full circle, and in hindsight I don't think the conclusion should've been executed in any other way.

In fact, I think it was near pitch-perfect attempt at merging Layton tropes with a Shu Takumi-esque story, and it was all just very satisfying. I got the chills in the final moments.

-----

And then I tried the first DLC episode. Holy cow, it gave me the giggle bugs when I read Carmine's letter! Hahaha xD, Takumi is such a genius when it comes to humor!

What's the link with PL1's ending? I don't remember it

I agree about the rest, it definitely reminded me of 3's ending + 2's ending
 
The problem I had with the ending wasn't that it had the standard Layton implausible explanation. That's to be expected. It's that it needed to have three Layton implausible explanations.


  1. The town's water makes people fall unconscious when they hear silver ringing
  2. Cantabella works for a pharmaceutical company that has developed a mind control compound so that everyone in the town can be perfectly hypnotized for long periods of time.
  3. Things can be made invisible by painting them black or covering them with a black cloth. They used this to hide a massive amount of machinery throughout the town.
Any single one of those explanations would be a stretch for a standard Layton game, and at the end we get hit with all three at once. Even though I have a lot of tolerance for this kind of ridiculousness, this was way too far for me.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Yeah they went full Layton. I wouldn't have it any other way though

This all could have been avoided if the dumbass ancient people had just melted down their silver bell instead of sticking it in a vault underground for some reason
 
There also isn't any explaination for how Phoenix and Maya ended up in Labryinthia. We know that everyone who ended up there had to sign a contract agreeing to be mind-controlled, and Darklaw didn't kidnap them, because she outright says that she had no intentions of bringing them during the ending.

I read her saying that as she had no intention of bringing them with her "BUUUUUT...." Like she didn't have a choice after they came in contact with each other. So she brought them along and told everyone they were bakers and I guess will worry about the kidnapping charges later.
 
Yeah they went full Layton. I wouldn't have it any other way though

I would. I loved the whole setting and characters, and I especially found the whole staff/magic system of the witches intriguing. Would have been way better than trying to make it appear canon or w/e. (It's totally not canon, sorry.)
 

NetMapel

Guilty White Male Mods Gave Me This Tag
Having only played AA games before, I am quite used to crazy endings. However, this game's crazy ending is still a bit too much for my liking. I loved the whole concept of witchcraft and magic and would have been totally fine with it being contained in this singular game. As all AA fans should all know that they have dealt with supernatural stuff before so it is not a far fetch. Anyways, there is plenty of great things to say about this game as well though. Very strong art direction and cohesiveness, a beautiful job on combining the two series together in one game, and an amazing soundtrack.

Lastly, I also want to ask. So who was the person that attacked the chef girl on the container ship at the beginning? It doesn't sound like it was Darklaw since she wasn't even aware of Phoenix/Maya till the trial. She didn't want to involve them until they sniff the magic ink from the book, I guess. It also wasn't Espella as explained already in the game... Who then, hit the chef girl?
 

vareon

Member
Just beat it! So it was a Layton ending after all. Crazy ridiculous, but this guy has seen an entire town full of robot. Kinda surprised they kept the "no magic" theme till the end, because I still feel it's ok to have magic if we're going to have two different franchises in a game.

What I didn't realize like 1/3 of the game is that Layton and Phoenix are actually from the same world and age, despite Ace Attorney is set in the near future. Turns out that Layton was just a super fancy English gentlemen with vintage stuff in his room.

The game was just a pure joy to play through. Kinda sad that we probably won't see Layton in a long time.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
Just finished the game. If Maya doesn't return to Ace Attorney, I just don't know, guys.
She was totally on form this game. Energetic and helpful without me ever thinking "Geez, tone it down, girl." or feeling like she was drawing on anime cliches.

She's always been a great character to me, but there were a couple times in the original PW trilogy that I felt like she way too spacey for her own good.

I'm not familiar with the Layton series, whereas I've finished every Ace Attorney, and I was really here for Nick and Maya, though Layton and Luke really grew on me. That said, it kind of bugged me how Layton seemed to always take the lead when it came to actual thinking. Even at court he always seemed to be leading Phoenix along and to one step ahead of him, but smugly waiting for everyone else to catch up to his train of thought. Would have really liked it if Phoenix had been allowed to shine on his own in the courtroom, at least. Leave Layton to prove how brainy he is on the puzzle and investigation segments. Quick lateral legal thinking is supposed to be Phoenix's schtick.

As for my more spoiler-y impressions:

I got weird 999 vibe-chills when Arthur Cantabella took the stand and went into his "I'm the president of a pharmaceutical company..." exposition. And then things just kept getting weirder from there.

GAME: "The magic was all an illusion created by the shades!"
ME: "Wait, even if that's true, how the hell did the "wall portal" spell work? And what about the magical invisibility cloak that we *just* proved is an *actual invisibility cloak?* And how the hell did an entire bell tower appear out of thin air in a blaze of flames!?"
GAME: "Everyone was hypnotized to ignore anything that's pure black, and the entire bell tower was covered in a pure black robe like the shades were using!"
ME: "So nobody ever walked across the giant inviting grassy plaza in the middle of town and bumped into the giant invisible bell tower? And even if the invisible-hypnosis thing tracks, wouldn't a giant structure like that covered in a black trap cast weird shadows that people would notice?"
GAME: "DRUGS AND HYPNOSIS!"

And then Layton and Wright somehow "dispel" the illusion on the entire town by dramatically pointing and saying a word? What the hell? I'm going to assume that part of the hypnotic suggestion was that people would snap out of it upon hearing the word "taelenda" or whatever it was, but don't you think that would be something to actually mention in the narrative itself, somewhere!?

Luke just kind of disappears after he and Layton leave the Storyteller's Tower and Layton appears as Inquisitor. When he suddenly showed up in the animated cutscenes again when the trial was over I actually said out loud "Oh yeah, Luke's in this." When he caught Espella and Darklaw/Eve with the crane machine all I could think of was how ridiculously lucky that was and how really, everybody should be looking at some bloody stains on the pavement. Also, nobody had been knocked out for this "trick." Wouldn't people have seen a floating little boy operating invisible levers?

How the hell were the witches and things in the beginning of the game before you get to Labyrinthia done, especially considering they were definitely witnessed by Layton and Luke and they weren't under any sort of suggestion yet? In retrospect a lot of the event of the first hour of the game are absolutely bonkers. Layton and Luke were alone at night in a secluded place when they were "sucked into" Labarynthia, but did Phoenix and Maya just get kidnapped/abducted right out of a courtroom lobby?

I was disappointed that we only got to hear Cornered (AA1 Version) once or twice in the entire game, it's just too great a song to pass up. Cornered (Spell Breaker) is amazing, though, so I guess it's not too bad. The Final Witness was also criminally underused and would have set some *amazing* atmosphere at a couple of points in the game.

The whole ending of the game just seemed to drag on, too. So many times that it felt like we'd wrapped up things fairly well and then someone would bring up something *else* to wring another testimony out of. And for all the padding and mysteries being clarified, there was never a really satisfying "gotcha!" moment in the final trial. Maybe because the story didn't really have a "villain." It was very much a Layton "figure out the mystery" ending and not a satisfying Ace Attorney "dealing out long-overdue justice" one.

It was weird how the idea of being responsible for the destruction of an entire town and the deaths of all its inhabitants was, justifiably so, something that pushed Espella to the edge of madness, but when Darklaw/Eve discovers it was actually *her* fault she just kind of shrugs and takes it in stride. "Oh, I killed my mom and dozens of others? Well if we dwell on that it won't seem like a happy ending!"

And then the Storyteller *out of fucking nowhere* goes "I have an incurable disease!" And they let that hang in the air for maybe 10 seconds before he's like "But also I have the cure, so... I don't know why I brought that up."

STORYTELLER: "I'm going to go into surgery, Espella, but I'll be back soon."
ESPELLA: "And then everything will be fine and happy, Daddy?"
STORYTELLER: "Of course, my dear."
ME: "Arthur Cantabella died of complications during surgery. THE END."
 

Ventara

Member
Just finished the game after 31 hours, and I'd type up my feelings about it, but this guy sums it up really well. Really on point with a lot of the issues I had with the game.


I guess I was hoping for a more concise and logical ending like with AA games, not some ass-pull bizarro ending like with PL games. The game didn't feel balanced between the two series. Way more PL than PW. I mean, they made Phoenix to be some sort of noob, while Layton was always hinting how he was two steps ahead and had already figured out everything.
 

Asbear

Banned
Just finished the game after 31 hours, and I'd type up my feelings about it, but this guy sums it up really well. Really on point with a lot of the issues I had with the game.



I guess I was hoping for a more concise and logical ending like with AA games, not some ass-pull bizarro ending like with PL games. The game didn't feel balanced between the two series. Way more PL than PW. I mean, they made Phoenix to be some sort of noob, while Layton was always hinting how he was two steps ahead and had already figured out everything.

Somehow I can imagine a work meeting between Shu Takumi (PW) and Akihiro Hino (PL, LVL5) where he lists the "higher-up's requirements" for making PLvPWAA and he goes "You need to make Layton better than Phoenix Wright! Hah!"

It probably would've been a lot more interesting for a dynamic between the two franchises if Wright was more keen to outsmart or rival Layton's intelligence. The game definitely needed more of that. I expected the insane Layton-esque ending though. The game had plenty of Phoenix Wright to the story even after then insane ending twist and therefore I liked the ending still.
 

Ventara

Member
It probably would've been a lot more interesting for a dynamic between the two franchises if Wright was more keen to outsmart or rival Layton's intelligence. The game definitely needed more of that. I expected the insane Layton-esque ending though. The game had plenty of Phoenix Wright to the story even after then insane ending twist and therefore I liked the ending still.

For sure. But I would have been fine with what we got if the ending was just better. They should have let Takumi handle the story on his own. I actually thought this was the case until I saw the ending and the credits roll to show all the other guys who worked on it.

And yeah, the little happy ending bit after the last trial had a AA feel to it, complete with the right music. Minus the whole "I have an incurable disease..... that's just been cured."
 

SoulUnison

Banned
Come to think of it, the Bell Tower is in the dead center of the town, right? Right next to where the Fire Festival was held and where the fire went out of control and started from.

What the hell is that tower made of that the entire town was incinerated and it's still in perfect condition? How were Espella and Eve/Darklaw not cooked alive by the indirect convectional heat?
 
What the hell is that tower made of that the entire town was incinerated and it's still in perfect condition?
I thought that that was the old town, i.e. the one that existed there before Labyrinthia was built.

How were Espella and Eve/Darklaw not cooked alive by the indirect convectional heat?
Same reason fictional characters never get cooked alive by the indirect conventional heat whenever they're in a volcano or standing around lava.
 

SodiumEyes

Neo Member
Same reason fictional characters never get cooked alive by the indirect conventional heat whenever they're in a volcano or standing around lava.

It's really clear that the creators of this game only have a shallow grasp of physics. To them, "invisible machines did it" is seemingly enough of a "realistic" explaination for the impossible things that happen. Anyone who understands the properties of light, heat or energy can spot dozens of errors throughout the entire game. This is usually true of most fiction.
 

Tizoc

Member
Dat 10 man Court Trial though.

I lost it when that happened, I expect it to be 3-5 people, but nope the whole cavalry was there. Wish I could re-experience that moment XP
 
Just finished the game, and the fucks didnt explained all the pidgeons becoming witches in layton's office thing

Lastly, I also want to ask. So who was the person that attacked the chef girl on the container ship at the beginning? It doesn't sound like it was Darklaw since she wasn't even aware of Phoenix/Maya till the trial. She didn't want to involve them until they sniff the magic ink from the book, I guess. It also wasn't Espella as explained already in the game... Who then, hit the chef girl?

This too , who knocked out the chef
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
I don't understand how the Dimere spell is performed if magics were all fake, which made the flower girl's case all ridiculous.

Really, the ending created so many problems and holes in the story, which were only explainable if you really stretch things out.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
I thought that that was the old town, i.e. the one that existed there before Labyrinthia was built.

Same reason fictional characters never get cooked alive by the indirect conventional heat whenever they're in a volcano or standing around lava.

You misunderstand. The town burned down and was rebuilt, but why was the Clock Tower, which was right in the middle of the *giant raging inferno* completely undamaged. Where weren't Espella, Eve and...Eve cooked alive by convectional heat?
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I just finished the game, but I still have some questions;

who created the fire dragon mural under the great archive?
how did the storyteller and the shades create the fire dragon which 'consumed' the storyteller prior the last which trial?
 
who created the fire dragon mural under the great archive?

It probably was Cantabella, or could it have been anyone. Cantabella created the entire town to provide an alternate explanation for the Legendary Fire to replace the real memories that were emerging in Espella. Therefore the Legendary Fire was part of the story and the mural wouldn't actually be out of place.

how did the storyteller and the shades create the fire dragon which 'consumed' the storyteller prior the last which trial?

I guess it would be the pure black machinery dragging a flaming object across the sky.
 

NeonZ

Member
I'm disappointed at the lack of magatama and Psyche-locks in this game. It's the one super natural element in Phoenix Wright I really like. I guess it'd clash with the whole "magic isn't real!" concept though. But apparently talking with animals is fine...
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oh god, that ending. Everything started falling apart for me after the reveal that there was no magic. I would have been totally fine if they had just entered a book and shit was supernatural. Not to mention the innumerable plot holes the whole mess probably created. They can't see "pure black" because of special material that only Cantabella's company manufactures? What if someone bumped into nothingness like any of the huge machinery lying about or the bell tower?

Also disappointed that Maya didn't do any spirit channeling stuff at all, whether it was actual channeling or via Psyche-locks, when Luke was talking to animals all over the place (which I presume is an analogous character trait in those games). Another thing: the ending sequence was a bit too much of the Professor Layton show to my tastes. Would have liked Phoenix Wright to have had more input there. Loved this moment as a fail state, at least:
ozMKgkc.jpg

Then there's everything else people mentioned in this thread already... Ugh. Well, the ending gave us Edgeworth, which was pretty damn awesome. (Minor Ace Attorney Investigations 2 spoilers):
A similar epilogue sequence happens in AAI2, but even that game didn't bother to show Phoenix Wright at all even though it would have been expected there, so it was a nice surprise.

I liked the game overall, but I wish the ending hadn't been so needlessly convoluted.
 

Jeb

Member
Beat the game sometime ago but never got around to talking about it.

I had a blast with the game up until the last case, I even suspended my disbelief and took in the ridiculous twist, but what killed the game's momentum for me was basically having Layton sit in the side be a know it all and solving everything, meanwhile Pheonix being more of the player's perspective, is sitting there dumbfounded.
It is basically everything that turned me off Danganronpa, the player is the last to know and there is some annoying know it all sitting there already knowing every surprise, but in this case it's even worse, because he is revealing every surprise and leaving nothing for me , it makes solving the mystery so unsatisfying.

Which is a shame, because since the ending is so ridiculous, the only thing you can with such ridiculousness is by having crazily satisfying reveal of that mystery, but it feels they didn't try.
 
I will agree with most here and say the ending was convoluted bs. Even worse is that it drags on forever.

Layton just tell us what you know! This doesn't have to be resolved in court!

Also disappointed that Maya didn't do any spirit channeling stuff at all, whether it was actual channeling or via Psyche-locks, when Luke was talking to animals all over the place (which I presume is an analogous character trait in those games).

Also was disappointed with this. They somewhat tease it with Maya mentioning it to Layton and him being a little confused.

I was totally convinced she would channel Espella's mom at the end.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
I've come to the realization that I don't even remember them stating who actually went up the bell tower and shouted "granwyrm" to summon the fire dragon. Eva tried to frame Espella for it by placing her (knocked out) in the tower, Kira was knocked out by Eva so she couldn't complete her mission... but I don't remember them stating that Darklaw summoned the fire dragon? I have to assume that's what happened now, but I didn't get that impression at the time. Everything took a backseat when it became about who rang the bell 10+ years ago. I don't even remember it being stated how the Storyteller survived the attack.
 
I've come to the realization that I don't even remember them stating who actually went up the bell tower and shouted "granwyrm" to summon the fire dragon. Eva tried to frame Espella for it by placing her (knocked out) in the tower, Kira was knocked out by Eva so she couldn't complete her mission... but I don't remember them stating that Darklaw summoned the fire dragon? I have to assume that's what happened now, but I didn't get that impression at the time. Everything took a backseat when it became about who rang the bell 10+ years ago. I don't even remember it being stated how the Storyteller survived the attack.

There is tons of stuff that isn't explained, like who created the mural. The person who shouted granwyrm could have been Darklaw, or it could have been a shade. Cantabella wasn't killed by the spell because no one was ever killed by any of the spells. They were just illusions and the person who was "killed" got taken away to become a shade.
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
There is tons of stuff that isn't explained, like who created the mural. The person who shouted granwyrm could have been Darklaw, or it could have been a shade. Cantabella wasn't killed by the spell because no one was ever killed by any of the spells. They were just illusions and the person who was "killed" got taken away to become a shade.

Ah, that's right. Now I remember that at least that part was explained. Bummer about the rest.
 
This was mos def a Layton game with some AA thrown in. I feel like Phoenix and Maya got shafted a lot, and Prof. Layton started to annoy me near the end. (Luke is always annoying.)
 

Smellycat

Member
Just finished it. I really liked it, even though it got a bit... generic at the end with the twist, but I actually really appreciated how it all still made "sense" in the context of the game world. It was pretty out-there, but... I didn't mind, ridiculous as it was.

By the way: any other gay people playing this get a tinge of resonance, what with witches having to hide themselves from everyone out of fear? I wasn't expecting to think back on my earlier years, but it happened! I didn't get sad or anything... I just couldn't help but draw parallels. Am I alone?

Speaking of... the Alchemist case was by far the best for me in this game. Man... I legitimately got emotional with the whole Jean/Belduke thing. The music that played for the revelations was heartbreaking, my god. It was so obvious she had jumped to conclusions from seeing just glances of the letter, but the whole section where Jean is reading the suicide letter out loud to the court and we find out the truth... and just knowing how she felt and why she "did" what she did beforehand... it all just crept up and made me teary-eyed, goddamn. I could imagine the guilt perfectly like I never have in any of the other AA games. Knowingly doing something, but then finding out you didn't actually cause the result, all while living with the idea that you did; and then feeling the guilt all over again like a ton of bricks once you learn how even more wrong your actions would have been had you actually been the one to have "done" it, yet you can't ignore what you felt and still feel responsible somehow. That's so fucked up, especially since she's so young and smart.

Truly, truly one of my favorite cases and revelations in any AA game. The track that plays is so tragic and beautiful :(

YES

I 100% agree with you. I almost teared up when she was reading the letter. It was a great moment
 

Miker

Member
Okay, just finished this earlier tonight, and I guess I don't have too much else to say that other people haven't already said. Some general thoughts anyway:

- Holy shit, this game was polished. Really, really, really polished. The UI, the puzzle art, the pixel art, and pretty much everything else is ridiculously well made. I loved how big budget and handcrafted everything felt for a 3DS game.

- lol 3DS framerate of judge swinging gavel at 10 fps

- Awesome soundtrack. Some fantastic remixes of Ace Attorney songs and also amazing original pieces. I particularly loved this remix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hbiQzWGkXA

- The puzzles maintained a high level of quality and low level of bullshit. They were a bit on the easy side, that's not a big deal. No silly "gotcha" questions where you really have to think outside the box.

- I was bracing myself for the standard Layton twist of COMPLETELY NEGATING THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE GAME. I got it, and then some.

- Barnham was severely underused. Also, I feel like both he and Darklaw were designed as eye candy.

- Espella is boring as hell both in personality and character design.

- Overall, I had a good time with the game, and I think it mostly reaches the high standards set by both series. I think a sequel could be something truly special, but it won't happen.
 
I'll take the time of appreciating this semi-resurrected thread to state that the terrible ending is a fantastic nod to Layton's endings. This seriously is mediocre on the terrible scale compared to some of them.

Overall though, the game was amazing until it didn't perfectly dovetail like Shu's games always do.

The ending is terrible in a really interesting way though, because Darklaw goes from her normal purple outfit, to a black shade outfit in a cutscene without gloves, to a black version of her outfit for seemingly no reason.

The bonus gallery says that at one point she was designed to be an assassin, so an all black outfit (without even using the cloak) makes sense, and that character idea probably lasted long enough for the art department to make a model of it.

But then, if she was actually assassinating people, it would imply these people that voluntarily signed up for Labyrinthia were getting murdered, and then the tone of her villainy would be completely different.

The black machinery was also weird because they didn't really do anything, except catch Espella and Eve as a deux ex machina. The machines would make sense in the first cutscene of the game with the witches flying around, but that takes place in London instead of hypnotizo-land.

The magic in London doesn't make a lick of sense with that awkward twist, but the bonus episodes are nice enough to handwave it away by saying the statues are robots and generally not dangerous.

The final bonus episode actually goes out of the way to mention that the game was hard to make with a lot of butting heads. To actually gently air that dirty laundry out in public is really shocking to me. Looking through the bonus gallery you see a ton of concepts - some of them staggeringly cool - existing at one point, and I wonder how many continual compromises and sweeping changes were made well after the 'machine' of storytelling started turning its gears. Four seconds of an Edgeworth model at the is probably the perfect piece of evidence of this.

I wish the game had the cool stuff in the concept art - robo Layton, vampire superhero Phoenix, knight Edgeworth and burn scar Espella. God knows how flawless Shu's original ending would have been, but I'll take what I can get and I'm glad the game is as good as it is.

The place the first 'real' trial starts and where it ends is Takumi at his absolute best. Part of me is sad that he's stuck perpetually doing Ace Attorney games that have now been watered down by other writers instead of more original concepts like Ghost Trick, but he's just so good at the bread and butter of them that I'm still grateful he's sharing with us.

Most of all, I was disappointed there was no twist of the crowd switching from "Barnham!" to "Burn him!" like I expected.
 
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