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ReplacementPelican · May 7, 2014

The Sun has now revealed the shocking information that not only does Subway have the free-market audacity to have selected stores remove ham and bacon and serve halal meat but now the Muslims have conquered Pizza Express as well. At this time we cannot be sure how quickly the notion of British-ness is being eroded away by citizens who follow another religion but you can be damned sure the 'mainstream media' and their politically correct buzzwords will make this seem like it's merely restaurants catering to a subset of the population but we're through the looking glass, aren't we Gaf? We know what's really going down here. Conquest.

Jokes aside, what say Gaf? The outrage over Subway was quite contentious on Gaf and now that it has gotten attention it seems papers realise that this faux outrage is great for people sharing and consuming your media.

But is it irresponsible, Gaf? Should a national newspaper have this on their front page, something which isn't new in any fashion, in order to drive up sales through outrage and essentially bigotry against a subset of the population.

A subset who, just for reference, do not own these business, picket these business or coerce them in any way to supply alternatives but rather these businesses take these decisions in a strictly financial sense.

Personally, I find this to be highly irresponsible journalism but nothing that I don't expect from Tabloid papers.

Massive Duck. C.M. · May 7, 2014

That's a tabloid, right?

Looks like most American tabloids

OldRoutes · May 7, 2014

Isn't the Sun a tabloid and not a newspaper?

Or am I being pedantic?

(Also, who did get bitchy?)

7aged · May 7, 2014

Using bigotry to sell tabloids? Unheard of.

Valhelm · May 7, 2014

They're still running stories about the missing blonde girl.

terrisus · May 7, 2014

dbztrk · May 7, 2014

I really don't understand why this shit is happening. It makes no sense to get rid of it when Muslim patrons can simply choose to not get pork. It's shit like this that will eventually lead to full on clashes between the White Brits and the new comers. They are basically validating every fear that some White Brits have as it relates to the influx immigrants.

Napoleonthechimp · May 7, 2014

Valhelm said:
They're still running stories about the missing blonde girl.

That'll go on forever.

Delta Assault · May 7, 2014

...Now I just wanna know who got bitchy at the ball.

Guerrillas in the Mist · May 7, 2014

dbztrk said:
I really don't understand why this shit is happening. It makes no sense to get rid of it when Muslim patrons can simply choose to not get pork. It's shit like this that will eventually lead to full on clashes between the White Brits and the new comers. They are basically validating every fear that some White Brits have as it relates to the influx immigrants.

The article specifically mentions halal chicken. I'm assuming pork products are still on the menu.

If someone told me the chicken I just ate was halal/kosher, you know what my response would be? "Whatever".

doctorcdcs · May 7, 2014

Aw man, I misread this and thought that Hellgate:London was making a come back. lol

Brakke · May 7, 2014

NathanCX said:
But is it irresponsible, Gaf?

Yes. It's also irresponsible to title a thread "Halalgate".

Stet · May 7, 2014

dbztrk said:
I really don't understand why this shit is happening. It makes no sense to get rid of it when Muslim patrons can simply choose to not get pork. It's shit like this that will eventually lead to full on clashes between the White Brits and the new comers. They are basically validating every fear that some White Brits have as it relates to the influx immigrants.

You know how sometimes you can go into neighbourhoods that are predominantly Asian and get Asian food? Imagine if Subway opened in that neighbourhood with Asian ingredients. OPUTRAGTE

ReplacementPelican · May 7, 2014

Labor said:
That's a tabloid, right?

Looks like most American tabloids

It is indeed. Though, do Americans buy newspapers? I thought the format was dead in the States.

OldRoutes said:
Isn't the Sun a tabloid and not a newspaper?

Or am I being pedantic?

(Also, who did get bitchy?)

In the United Kingdom the term 'Tabloid' refers to the size of the paper as opposed to a Broadsheet. Though to be fair the papers do fit along lines of being 'trashier' than broadsheets, to the extent where other papers in the format tend to call themselves 'compact' if they believe they're above tabloid journalism.

Or were you joking and I missed it?

Brakke said:
Yes. It's also irresponsible to title a thread "Halalgate".

How so? The term implies it's some huge cover-up (when it's not) so I thought given the way I wrote the topic people would realise that it was dripping with sarcasm.

Sorry that isn't clear though.

Stinkles · May 7, 2014

OldRoutes said:
Isn't the Sun a tabloid and not a newspaper?

Or am I being pedantic?

(Also, who did get bitchy?)

Tabloid in the UK solely refers to the paper size format, and although most tabloids are terribad, they are not like the US ones where the headlines are fake and understood to be fake.

It's real news, wildly exaggerated or sensationalized.

RustyNails · May 7, 2014

Brakke said:
Yes. It's also irresponsible to title a thread "Halalgate".

I would go to a restaurant named Halalgate.

BGBW · May 7, 2014

But it just says they use halal meat, there's no removal of any options. I think people would find it a bit odd to go into a pizza chain that doesn't serve pepperoni mind.

dbztrk · May 7, 2014

Guerrillas in the Mist said:
The article specifically mentions halal chicken. I'm assuming pork products are still on the menu.

If someone told me the chicken I just ate was halal/kosher, you know what my response would be? "Whatever".

My comment was really in regards to what Subway is doing. I should have been clear.

7aged · May 7, 2014

Guerrillas in the Mist said:
The article specifically mentions halal chicken. I'm assuming pork products are still on the menu.

If someone told me the chicken I just ate was halal/kosher, you know what my response would be? "Whatever".

Yes but these are muzzie chickens. they're trying to rape all he white chicks and impose sharia law. Give me a good honest BRITISH chicken. E E EDL! E E EDL!

Damaniel · May 7, 2014

'Halalgate' is only a controversy to bigoted nationalist right wingers who are upset that some business might be conducting itself in a non-Christian fashion. If these businesses were doing something overtly Christian (and not Islamic), the complainers would be just fine.

And the persecution train continues...

Massive Duck. C.M. · May 7, 2014

NathanCX said:
It is indeed. Though, do Americans buy newspapers? I thought the format was dead in the States.

We still have respectable newspapers in print alongside digital media.

Tabloids are universally recognized as unreliable at best.

m_shortpants · May 7, 2014

dbztrk said:
I really don't understand why this shit is happening. It makes no sense to get rid of it when Muslim patrons can simply choose to not get pork. It's shit like this that will eventually lead to full on clashes between the White Brits and the new comers. They are basically validating every fear that some White Brits have as it relates to the influx immigrants.

If I opened a business in a neighborhood with a lot of Muslims, and found that no one at my pizza because it didn't have halal meat, it would be common sense to switch to halal meat to cater to the demographic....not exactly too difficult to justify.

marrec · May 7, 2014

Can't wait for Halalgate: London severs to come back online.

SquiddyCracker · May 7, 2014

Holy shit, is that the missing girl from like 20 years ago?
Why are they still running a story on her?

KHarvey16 · May 7, 2014

dbztrk said:
My comment was really in regards to what Subway is doing. I should have been clear.

Some subways are offering halal meats in areas where it makes business sense, the requirements of which make it impractical to offer non-halal options at the same restaraunts.

On top of that, who the hell cares? A business made a decision about what it wants to sell based on the needs or desires of its customers.

DrM · May 7, 2014

Poor Giggs

7aged · May 7, 2014

SquiddyCracker said:
Holy shit, is that the missing girl from like 20 years ago?
Why are they still running a story on her?

Appeals to THINK OF THE CHILDREN! crowd

braves01 · May 7, 2014

America more British than Britain confirmed.

justjohn · May 7, 2014

m_shortpants said:
If I opened a business in a neighborhood with a lot of Muslims, and found that no one at my pizza because it didn't have halal meat, it would be common sense to switch to halal meat to cater to the demographic....not exactly too difficult to justify.

But it says all their chains now serve halal chicken, which includes non Muslim areas. I understand serving it in heavily populated Muslim areas but looks like anyone who doesn't like halal chicken is labelled a bigot and told to get over it. Okay.

Raist · May 7, 2014

justjohn said:
But it says all their chains now serve halal chicken, which includes non Muslim areas. I understand serving it in heavily populated Muslim areas but looks like anyone who doesn't like halal chicken is labelled a bigot and told to get over it. Okay.

Given how these gigantic franchises have their production centralised, it'd be impossible for them to have both at the same time.

I can't say I've noticed any difference between halal and non halal chicken tbh. Especially at that "level" it just doesn't really taste of anything anyway.

Stet · May 7, 2014

justjohn said:
But it says all their chains now serve halal chicken, which includes non Muslim areas. I understand serving it in heavily populated Muslim areas but looks like anyone who doesn't like halal chicken is labelled a bigot and told to get over it. Okay.

Why wouldn't you like Halal chicken? It's just chicken.

m_shortpants · May 7, 2014

justjohn said:
But it says all their chains now serve halal chicken, which includes non Muslim areas. I understand serving it in heavily populated Muslim areas but looks like anyone who doesn't like halal chicken is labelled a bigot and told to get over it. Okay.

Halal chicken tastes like normal chicken. There is no difference in taste. Unless for some reason you feel oppressed by eating halal chicken, what's the problem?

Ushojax · May 7, 2014

Stet said:
Why wouldn't you like Halal chicken? It's just chicken.

The manner of slaughter is what most people have a problem with.

7aged · May 7, 2014

justjohn said:
But it says all their chains now serve halal chicken, which includes non Muslim areas. I understand serving it in heavily populated Muslim areas but looks like anyone who doesn't like halal chicken is labelled a bigot and told to get over it. Okay.

Halal chicken is just chicken in the end of the day. What difference does i make to a non Muslim? If you have an aversion to "halal chicken" as opposed to non halal chicken it's due to bigotry if you're honest. It's like people having a "problem" with kosher meat. Do you step out of deli counter because the salt beef is kosher?

7aged · May 7, 2014

Ushojax said:
The manner of slaughter is what most people have a problem with.

I don't think there's a meaningful difference in welfare between halal and non halal chicken in the commodity end of the market.

braves01 · May 7, 2014

Stet said:
Why wouldn't you like Halal chicken? It's just chicken.

There are more humane ways to killing the animals. You might also dislike how Halal certification requires businesses to consider the religious affiliations of potential employees, since iirc from the last thread you need to employ a certain number of Muslim employees.

moggio · May 7, 2014

Damaniel said:
'Halalgate' is only a controversy to bigoted nationalist right wingers who are upset that some business might be conducting itself in a non-Christian fashion. If these businesses were doing something overtly Christian (and not Islamic), the complainers would be just fine.

And the persecution train continues...

Actually, no, there is more to it than that, specifically the way some animals that are Halal slaughtered are not pre-stunned. That is an animal rights issue.

Stet · May 7, 2014

braves01 said:
There are more humane ways to killing the animals. You might also dislike how Halal certification requires businesses to consider the religious affiliations of potential employees, since iirc from the last thread you need to employ a certain number of Muslim employees.

Ushojax said:
The manner of slaughter is what most people have a problem with.

When it comes to chicken, their throats get cut regardless of whether or not it's Halal.

hipbabboom · May 7, 2014

Stinkles said:
Tabloid in the UK solely refers to the paper size format, and although most tabloids are terribad, they are not like the US ones where the headlines are fake and understood to be fake.

It's real news, wildly exaggerated or sensationalized.

Wait... what?

RoyalFool · May 7, 2014

justjohn said:
But it says all their chains now serve halal chicken, which includes non Muslim areas. I understand serving it in heavily populated Muslim areas but looks like anyone who doesn't like halal chicken is labelled a bigot and told to get over it. Okay.

The joys of being in the minority in your own native birthplace, it's hard to blame the chains themselves but it is easy to use them as an outlet for anger at how poorly the migration and integration of Muslims in Britain has been handled.

I study Languages so it's pretty awesome walking around Bristol and hearing everybody speaking a different language, but for old folks who just want to buy something and get a bus back without fuss I can understand why they are fed up of it.

The worst part of it is this has come just before the European elections, no doubt UKIP are going to get a huge boost (and yes, I know that most Muslims don't even immigrate from within the EU but UKIP voters probably don't grasp that).

Masquerader · May 7, 2014

The Sun. Bah. It's probably an exaggeration.

moggio · May 7, 2014

Stet said:
When it comes to chicken, their throats get cut regardless of whether or not it's Halal.

And what of the other animals that are not pre-stunned when slaughtered?

Ushojax · May 7, 2014

7aged said:
I don't think there's a meaningful difference in welfare between halal and non halal chicken in the commodity end of the market.

Neither do I and this chicken stuff doesn't bother me at all, but some people in the UK see the word 'halal' and think 'animal cruelty'. That's the angle that most of the tabloids go for anyway, trying to frame halal meat as unethical. There is definitely a legitimate issue with non-chicken animals though.

-Plasma Reus- · May 7, 2014

Manufactured outrage.
Anyone reading the Sun should be shunned.

"Oh really, where did you read that?"

"The Sun"

"Please stop. Go away."

Stet · May 7, 2014

moggio said:
And what of the other animals that are not pre-stunned when slaughtered?

The article is about Pizza Express serving Halal chicken though?

TheWarrior · May 7, 2014

I thought the free market was bad and crazy talk from tea partiers and stuff

moggio · May 7, 2014

Ushojax said:
Neither do I and this doesn't bother me at all, but some people in the UK see the word 'halal' and think 'animal cruelty'. That's the angle that most of the tabloids go for anyway, trying to frame halal meat as unethical.

Halal slaughter where animals are not pre-stunned is cruel.

Ideally it should be outlawed.

ReplacementPelican · May 7, 2014

Stet said:
Why wouldn't you like Halal chicken? It's just chicken.

Some people take umbrage to the way in which Halal food is prepared, they find the method of killing/draining the blood to be barbaric compared to Western methods.

Though the only methods the Qur'an specifically considers Haram are boiling to death and electrocution. It also has to be performed by a Muslim so it's 'taking British jobs from British workers'

(The extreme right in England tend to forget most Muslims in Britain happen to be British, weirdly enough and the 'jobs' element is their favourite with many funny videos coming out of them saying something to the effect of what I said)

.

The problem is that it's hard to find information about because searching it just leads you mostly to hate groups. Here's some actual information:

Are animals conscious when they are killed for halal slaughter?
For the majority, no. Between 84 and 90 per cent of animals killed for halal meat in the UK are processed by one of the large number of halal slaughterhouses which do use electric stunning beforehand.

This does, however, leave a significant minority of animals which are killed without being stunned first, at one of a reported 12 slaughterhouses in the UK which still perform the more traditional practice, endorsed by Islamic scholars, of keeping the animal conscious when its throat is cut.

Do halal slaughterhouses in the UK face different regulations to non-halal ones?
No, with the single exception of whether or not stunning is used. For halal slaughter that includes pre-stunning there is no practical difference in the way the animal is treated.

While European law requires animals to be stunned before slaughter, the UK has an exemption in place for halal and kosher killing. In exchange there are actually more regulations in place governing the handling of animals that will not be stunned when slaughtered.

Source

We do need to sort out that 15% though, don't get me wrong.

m_shortpants · May 7, 2014

moggio said:
And what of the other animals that are not pre-stunned when slaughtered?

If ethics are the issue, I think those people would be better of not eating meat at all. Slaughterhouses don't exactly provide animals with a pleasant experience, halal or not.

Walshicus · May 7, 2014

Both Halal and Kosher foods are on the wrong side of morality for me. I certainly don't see it as a positive that more and more places are switching with the demographic shift.

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