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Lima · Feb 9, 2015

Like seriously how is this still a thing? The Xbox One has been out for a year and 3 months now and this issue is still not fixed. The last time we heard someone acknowledging it was sometime around last year when a thread like this popped up and Albert Penello said that he forwarded the issue to the right team or something.

The Xbox does not send a correct signal with either limited or full. It still displays 0-16 and 235-255 with it set to limited which is totally wrong and doesn't display the lower end black values at all where it should with full rgb output. It seems like they either don't care to include this easy fix in the monthly updates they do or someone responsible for this mess likes their blacks crushed like I like my ice.

Badlucktroll · Feb 9, 2015

I feel you. I play on a 4k TV and the black crush is sooo noticeable. Ugh.

Krakn3Dfx · Feb 9, 2015

Probably hardware at this point, right?

I've seen a few games that managed to fix it, but at the expense of a more washed out image, and for anything going through the HDMI-in, it's horrible.

vesvci · Feb 9, 2015

Yea, probably a hardware thing at this point.

DirgeExtinction · Feb 9, 2015

Was the 360 the same way?

pixlexic · Feb 9, 2015

Krakn3Dfx said:
Probably hardware at this point, right?

No ms is still just think its better to adjust the settings for you.

RowdyReverb · Feb 9, 2015

Lower priority fix because it's a less visible upgrade than adding features like screenshots. A small niche of Xbox One owners irritated by it will be placated and nobody else will notice unless it's pointed out to them.

I agree that it's annoying, especially in dark scenes in games, but I think it's just on the back burner for now.

def sim · Feb 9, 2015

I doubt they'll actually fix anything considering how Albert Penello seemed to think it's a user fault and one of the latest updates added a disclaimer when switching to PC RGB.

DirgeExtinction said:
Was the 360 the same way?

Yes. Someone there must really love this look.

Foxix Von · Feb 9, 2015

DirgeExtinction said:
Was the 360 the same way?

Not sure if its the same issue as I don't own a bone. The 360 however, does not send incorrect RGB color values IIRC.

Its problem is rather that the system's gamma curve is completely fucky.

I believe that the broken gamma curve is still an issue in the XB1, along side non functioning RGB settings.

TheAdmiester · Feb 9, 2015

Isn't it only when a game uses the console's scaler chip?

I've never noticed it in a single 1080p game, so it sounds like a hardware issue.

Terbinator · Feb 9, 2015

Yeah its when MS scaler is used it crops up.

Lima · Feb 9, 2015

default two said:
I doubt they'll actually fix anything considering how Albert Penello seemed to think it's a user fault and one of the latest updates added a disclaimer when switching to PC RGB.

Yes. Someone there must really love this look.

Wait really? They took the time to implement this disclaimer but not just fix the issue at hand? Wow. And guys no it's not just when the scaler is used. Everything is clipped when using full rgb. Some developers are accounting for this though like they did on the 360 which made the gamma issue on 360 unfix able later on in its life because it would have fucked up how many games looked.

USC-fan · Feb 9, 2015

People like the "pop."

LCGeek · Feb 9, 2015

This is the from the same company whose operating system is junk on this issue as well. Personally they don't care enough and consumers basically agree color accuracy or proper output is for suckers.

last part was a joke

Shin-Ra · Feb 9, 2015

TheAdmiester said:
Isn't it only when a game uses the console's scaler chip?

I've never noticed it in a single 1080p game, so it sounds like a hardware issue.

Terbinator said:
Yeah its when MS scaler is used it crops up.

Nope.

Rayman Legends (no upscale)

Highlights are also clipped.

PS4

XBO

PS4

XBO

Click to expand...

blame space · Feb 9, 2015

this really sucks on the resident evil remaster

OdysseusVA · Feb 9, 2015

DirgeExtinction said:
Was the 360 the same way?

I believe only with HDMI? VGA maps 0-255 correctly

Izuna · Feb 9, 2015

Sunset Overdrive then included a new patched setting which allowed us to fix the crushed blacks (good enough).

We heard that the latest SDK made RGB Full work better.

From now, I haven't noticed it harming any recent releases the way it used to.

I personally find CodAW unplayable on Full however.

Three · Feb 9, 2015

Lima said:
Like seriously how is this still a thing? The Xbox One has been out for a year and 3 months now and this issue is still not fixed. The last time we heard someone acknowledging it was sometime around last year when a thread like this popped up and Albert Penello said that he forwarded the issue to the right team or something.

The Xbox does not send a correct signal with either limited or full. It still displays 0-16 and 235-255 with it set to limited which is totally wrong and doesn't display the lower end black values at all where it should with full rgb output. It seems like they either don't care to include this easy fix in the monthly updates they do or someone responsible for this mess likes their blacks crushed like I like my ice.

As far as I remember, and I could be remembering wrong, Penello was suggesting it was fixed when it clearly wasn't. At this point I assume it is actually intentionally like this rather than a bug. I assume it is some kind of compressed render target that crushes blacks, something to save on bandwidth. I would love a detailed explanation but I don't think we will ever get that. In fact DF barely even notice these minute details to investigate. One thing I have noticed for example that DF have not touched upon at all is what the XB1 does with display planes. On a couple of games now (GTA5 and NFS rivals for example) I've noticed that the UI is smaller (as in not on the edges of the screen like PC/PS4). One theory I have for this is that it is using a lower res centered display pane for the UI in comparison, for bandwidth savings.

Was the 360 the same way?

Don't know if it is the same underlying problem but the 360 had a piecewise linear approximation for a gamma curve and it often meant you got some odd looking results that did not match gamma 2.2.

A good read about it here

http://filmicgames.com/archives/14

Shin-Ra · Feb 9, 2015

Did Richard Leadbetter ever follow up on these comments?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-titanfall-next-gen-face-off

The only other major difference is a skewed gamma ramp on Xbox One, introducing black crush into the image, robbing it of some of the subtle detail you see in the PC game. We understand that this could be an issue in how the Xbox One blends its multiple display panes and would be more of an issue in upscaled games, and we're quite surprised that Microsoft hasn't sought to address this yet.

BabyFaceKillah · Feb 9, 2015

i didnt even know this was a thing and ive had an XBO since Titanfall

Three · Feb 9, 2015

BabyFaceKillah said:
i didnt even know this was a thing and ive had an XBO since Titanfall

Most people don't even calibrate their screens so it is not surprising that few would care or notice.

Shin-Ra said:
Did Richard Leadbetter ever follow up on these comments?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-titanfall-next-gen-face-off

Not that I know of.

a Master Ninja · Feb 9, 2015

I still care.

Sobriquet · Feb 9, 2015

default two said:
one of the latest updates added a disclaimer when switching to PC RGB.

Whoa, really?

lowhighkang_LHK · Feb 9, 2015

default two said:
I doubt they'll actually fix anything considering how Albert Penello seemed to think it's a user fault and one of the latest updates added a disclaimer when switching to PC RGB.

I figured PC RGB is the equivalent to full. While TV RGB is equivalent to RGB limited. So i set my TV to full, and then put my xbox on PC.

This is not correct?

a Master Ninja · Feb 9, 2015

lowhighkang_LHK said:
I figured PC RGB is the equivalent to full. While TV RGB is equivalent to RGB limited. So i set my TV to full, and then put my xbox on PC.

This is not correct?

Here is the test. Look at this image on your Xbone through Internet Explorer or whatever.

Do you see 4 distinct columns or just a white box and a black box?

AgentOtaku · Feb 9, 2015

blame space said:
this really sucks on the resident evil remaster

Really?

I was anticipating it and thought it turned out fine actually

Btw, Strider and Trial Fusion are, straight.up.fucked. tho.... Trials especially as you can fix Strider by with your TV's HDMI levels

lowhighkang_LHK · Feb 9, 2015

a Master Ninja said:
Here is the test. Look at this image on your Xbone through Internet Explorer or whatever.

Do you see 4 distinct columns or just a white box and a black box?

I only see two big boxes. One white and one black.

What the fuck? PC should mean rgb range full. My samsung's black level is set to normal [high].

What should I do? should i set my black level to low and then change my xbox to 'tv'?

RdN · Feb 9, 2015

It really sucks.. Specifically since I'm pretty sure Microsoft sees this as a good thing, thus it'll never be fixed.

Mugatu · Feb 9, 2015

I know I prefer the Xbox's visuals and I think so do most people (actually I assume they do) so it's not going to be "fixed."

Jeff Stephen · Feb 9, 2015

USC-fan said:
People like the "pop."

Design choice. Wasn't fixed on 360 and doubt it will be on X1.
http://www.valvesoftware.com/publications/2008/GDC2008_PostProcessingInTheOrangeBox.pdf

Naked Snake · Feb 9, 2015

I didn't know this was a thing...

First I learn that Nvidia didn't fix this in their GPUs until very recently...

There was a similar thread about this for PS4 yesterday...

And it sounds like XBox One has the worst case of it...

98b39b21ff008afaa5cba1e79fc611b2ddb64b3f44f57e792397c517768f4433.jpg

Mastamind · Feb 9, 2015

a Master Ninja said:
Here is the test. Look at this image on your Xbone through Internet Explorer or whatever.

Do you see 4 distinct columns or just a white box and a black box?

I see 4 boxes on both my pc and on tv using xbox one. I have the color space set to tv in xbox.

EASTC0AST_GH05T · Feb 9, 2015

Mugatu said:
I know I prefer the Xbox's visuals and I think so do most people (actually I assume they do) so it's not going to be "fixed."

but the visuals are wrong and off, you are losing detail with the crushed blacks.

Hypron · Feb 9, 2015

a Master Ninja said:
Here is the test. Look at this image on your Xbone through Internet Explorer or whatever.

Do you see 4 distinct columns or just a white box and a black box?

That's weird, on my macbook pro I can see the white and clear grey just fine, but on the otherside I just see a black box.

SEGAvangelist · Feb 9, 2015

It's not broken. Devs just need to adjust to the different gamma curve. CoD and Saints Row are the only recent offenders, so most devs seem to have a grasp on it now.

Sobriquet · Feb 9, 2015

Hypron said:
That's weird, on my macbook pro I can see the white and clear grey just fine, but on the otherside I just see a black box.

Yeah, I had to turn the brightness way up to see distinct black boxes.

Mohonky · Feb 9, 2015

Hypron said:
That's weird, on my macbook pro I can see the white and clear grey just fine, but on the otherside I just see a black box.

Yeop my ipad is crushing the black here.

Ape · Feb 9, 2015

Mastamind said:
I see 4 boxes on both my pc and on tv using xbox one. I have the color space set to tv in xbox.

Wtf my iPhone is black crushing?

Lima · Feb 9, 2015

No the iPhone and iPad are not crushing. Are you guys blind?

Also again no it's not fixed. Stop saying this.

kitch9 · Feb 9, 2015

Mugatu said:
I know I prefer the Xbox's visuals and I think so do most people (actually I assume they do) so it's not going to be "fixed."

You prefer not seeing as much?

Astral/H3X · Feb 9, 2015

a Master Ninja said:
Here is the test. Look at this image on your Xbone through Internet Explorer or whatever.

Do you see 4 distinct columns or just a white box and a black box?

This the the test for full RGB yeah?

Cuz I see four boxes on my Wii U.

Jeff Stephen · Feb 9, 2015

H3XAntiStyle said:
This the the test for full RGB yeah?

Cuz I see four boxes on my Wii U.

Wii U outputs at rec 709, 16-235 video levels.

Thrakier · Feb 9, 2015

Crushed blacks are the usp of xbox. At least in the us. Was the same for the 360 as well. They won't change it.

Goodacre0081 · Feb 9, 2015

Lima said:
Wait really? They took the time to implement this disclaimer but not just fix the issue at hand? Wow. And guys no it's not just when the scaler is used. Everything is clipped when using full rgb. Some developers are accounting for this though like they did on the 360 which made the gamma issue on 360 unfix able later on in its life because it would have fucked up how many games looked.

wouldn't fixing this issue make all the older games gamma look blown out due to being developed with the old values?

lowhighkang_LHK said:
I only see two big boxes. One white and one black.

What the fuck? PC should mean rgb range full. My samsung's black level is set to normal [high].

What should I do? should i set my black level to low and then change my xbox to 'tv'?

nvidia cards are known to not display full RGB. you might have to use a third party tool to get it working.

HORRORSHØW · Feb 9, 2015

Hypron said:
That's weird, on my macbook pro I can see the white and clear grey just fine, but on the otherside I just see a black box.

i see 4 distinct colors on my mbp.

Jawbreaker · Feb 9, 2015

Team Vernia said:
It's not broken. Devs just need to adjust to the different gamma curve. CoD and Saints Row are the only recent offenders, so most devs seem to have a grasp on it now.

Why do devs have to adjust to this fuckery? It shouldn't be an issue in the first place. This has been happening since the 360 days.

Occam · Feb 9, 2015

Naked Snake said:
There was a similar thread about this for PS4 yesterday...

PS4 doesn't have this, the thread is incorrectly titled; unfortunately no mod ever updated it.
Black crush is an Xbone exclusive.

SatansReverence · Feb 9, 2015

a Master Ninja said:
Here is the test. Look at this image on your Xbone through Internet Explorer or whatever.

Do you see 4 distinct columns or just a white box and a black box?

Both my laptop and my XB1 have 4 distinct columns.

(asus g74sx and HDMI'd benq pc monitor)

Leyasu · Feb 9, 2015

On TV I see t he boxes, on PC just white and black.

But on PC, when I go back to the dashboard and there's just the small screen with the colour test inside. When I press say the settings tile, for a split second I could see all the different colours within the box. Software problem??

Please someone try it.

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