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Steel Diver: Sub Wars (F2P) may have the makings of a Nintendo multiplayer classic
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
It won't, because the game is F2P (without downtime or "pay to win"), and fiendishly addictive with its leveling, unlocks, etc. There seem to be a ton of Japanese players, as well. Even if everyone disappeared, though, there'd still be bots to fill out the ranks.
pitt_norton
Member
you are not alone. basically, the reason why my inital thoughts this game would be wii u bound was that in one of the previous nintendo investor meetings last year, nintendo announced they were producing a f2p game. this announcement was made in the midst of the topic of wii u. a week later or so, trademarks were discovered that revealed the names of nes remix and steel diver sub wars. it was assumed by a few media outlets that there were going to be the f2p titles for wii u. it was a strong case right?
so im sad too... i was so hyped for this, and can only read on in envy. is it still port begging considering it's not for a competitors platform? i would love to see this game on wii u.
apologies for the lack of capital letters, my shift keys are not consistently working due to spillage.
InsaneElite
Member
Highlighted squares have players inside them, dark ones don't.
Isn't that mentioned in the tutorial?
RMS Gigantic
Member
Highlighted squares are actually where there is enemy activity. It's very good if you don't see any enemies and don't want to completely scan the whole map for them!
As for where it's mentioned, it's either in the training or in a pre-match tip.
ohblahitsme
Member
Downloading now thanks to this thread! I wonder how much money Nintendo will make from this.
RMS Gigantic
Member
Enough to keep on experimenting like this, I hope! This game is an absolute blast!
I find it kind of noteworthy how Shigeru Miyamoto said previously that he wanted to make an FPS game, and he worked on the first Steel Diver. He was also the one who confirmed that this game was F2P, months ago. Do you suppose that this is Shigeru Miyamoto's FPS?
Wow, I did training but this must've slipped my mind. That's VERY helpful!
I probably played for a couple hours before upgrading to premium. Of the players who upgrade to premium, I wonder how long they played the free version first. I'd love to know what kind of revenue this is generating for Nintendo, because if it works well, I'm sure we'll see more.
RMS Gigantic
Member
I personally played for just shy of 1 day before getting premium, and then I got myself an I-400 from the shop a few hours or so afterwards. I have a soft spot for that Japanese submarine aircraft carrier secret weapon!
JacksUsername
Member
I see where you're coming from, but I still find it bizarre that it's not available in this day and age. Many games have non-experience or stat gaining modes that allow for friends to be mixed with randoms, so considering they already have the option to find matches based on skill/experience, I can't help but feel a friends allowed mode is a major omission from an otherwise pretty fun game.
I haven't tried local yet, but considering I have only one person locally I would play with, quick 1v1 matches don't really sound too interesting.
Yeah, I was surprised when I learned from another thread that the game supported it. I found it much easier with the dual sticks for the main controls, but I could see why some would prefer buttons.
Nerdkiller
Membeur
I feel so disappointed in myself, because I have yet to get a 3DS and now here comes what I can only assume is a future online classic that I can't yet experience.
Does it have some form of a server browser like in Luigi's Mansion 2? I mean, I don't really see it having one, but it would be nice to have one nonetheless.
SkeptiMism
Member
I don't have a 3DS, but I wanna play this some day. Generally I don't like FPS games that much, but a lot of those ideas sound very interesting and quite possibly very fun. Hopefully they'll do more with this in the future.
RMS Gigantic
Member
There's effectively only one, central server for online play. The closest you have to a filter is a choice in regional or worldwide queues for battle, and a choice in skill-based or random matchmaking for each.
Yeah, you get people who simply button mash Y (and A to alternately, in the case of several lines of single Es) to varying degrees and then submit the result: E, I, S, H, and 5 are series of 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 dots respectively.
It seems like you can continue to Morse chat after you've sunk and are in spectator mode. Or at least, it lets you use Morse chat -- I don't know whether the players who remain will actually see what you type. If they can, it could be a good way to warn teammates of the enemy's location.
Nerdkiller
Membeur
Well, feck. I'll still more than likely pick it up once I get a 3DS, seeing the low barrier of entry and all that. It's just nice to see such a game like this come out in this day and age, when there's very little risk/reward in most other FPS's these days.
Yes we can see. I had one match where I was 1v3 and they cheered on me via chat. Naturally I won
because they were far away from each other and on low life. So it was 1v1 then 1v2
RMS Gigantic
Member
When I'm on a role in my submarines, I can end up destroying 3 or sometimes even 4 submarines. This most often ends up happening if I'm somewhat lucky but otherwise on my A game in the Hot Springs map.
Curse you GAF. You made me get Bravely Default, now this.
Still, it sounds like it's worth a look, and this F2P model is fantastically designed, other than the morse code bit (with the whole Swapnote debacle, understandable). I hope they're able to expand on this franchise to become another big seller.
Still, it sounds like it's worth a look, and this F2P model is fantastically designed, other than the morse code bit (with the whole Swapnote debacle, understandable). I hope they're able to expand on this franchise to become another big seller.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
No is not, unless you have this weird definition of free-to-play. More like a Lite version, even Nintendo says "try it for free" which is another way of saying "demo".
Been loving this game so far. I'm glad to see it's gotten such good reception. I'm gonna repeat what I wrote in the OT about a possible game mode in a possible Wii U version, because I think it's cool. : P
Needless to say, I think a Wii U version of this game would be great, and I hope we get one soon.
but regardless, this game is great. Anybody who is on the fence should try it out. Won't cost you a thing (until it hooks you of course ; )
But it's fun!
Needless to say, I think a Wii U version of this game would be great, and I hope we get one soon.
but regardless, this game is great. Anybody who is on the fence should try it out. Won't cost you a thing (until it hooks you of course ; )
But it's fun!
prag16
Banned
Wait, you can't team up with friends?
Goddammit. Even when they do things right they manage to step on their dicks somehow.
Hope they fix it, and bring a version to Wii U at some point.
The basic game content (some missions, MP) is the same between free and paying players, and there's a paywall for the extended content. It's like, for example, Runescape except the paywall is a one-time fee rather than a subscription.
Also, demos on a 3DS typically have an access limit and is a separate app.
RMS Gigantic
Member
Like it was said before, teaming up in random battles (maybe this could be permissible in skill-based battles) with even one other person would rather effectively already stack one half of one of the team.
Then again, they also might have left it out simply because they didn't know if this would bring the queue times to unbearable levels; this would be especially true if not very many people ended up playing. As can be seen around these parts, however, this game has definitely earned a following.
RMS Gigantic
Member
I said it in the OT, and I'll say it again here: I want someone to have David Cage play this game and give his thoughts on it (assuming he doesn't burst into flames within a few seconds of playing it, at least). I'm curious, because this game seems to violate virtually every last quantum of his video game design philosophy: no story, no cutscenes, very short, segregated matches, no human (or even living) characters that the player is meant to form connections to or have empathy for, an entirely different business model than any of his games, etc., etc., etc.
I just started paying attention to patterns and crew members! I thought that stuff would only work in the premium version, so I didn't bother looking at it. My sub is now a slick orange with black and white details!
But the allure of new subs is starting to sink in. Don't know how much loner I can resist the pressure....
But the allure of new subs is starting to sink in. Don't know how much loner I can resist the pressure....
added another pun because.. you know...
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
No, because I don't think the core game is particularly fun and I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that it has franchise potential. It's a spin-off (admittedly in a different genre) of a failed game. People are playing it, but the community doesn't seem especially large given that it's free--Microsoft's last two F2P games (Crash Course 2 and Ascend: Fart of Butts) both put up >500,000 players in the first week or so. I dunno. I don't really get why you're bullish about this besides the fact that you're obviously a very excitable guy. I don't see it.
It's not particularly novel or interesting. Demos have been available for a long time. Many XBLA games with online modes allowed people to play with paying customers, but limited levelling or access to content. Some had time limits, although some did not. The premium version is not particularly well prices (although, see above, I don't think this is a good game to begin with). Paying to unlock costumes or characters or however you want to classify the real-life subs is also a common model.
I don't think it's a good game. It's a slow and not particularly interesting team deathmatch mode. I don't think it adds anything to Nintendo because I don't think it's a good game. I don't think it has the modes, content, or feature support to encourage any kind of community. I tried to play with EmCeeGramr and... surprise, surprise, you can't play with friends. The morse code communication is frankly hilarious but doesn't really add anything beyond the novelty of spamming BUTTS.
SpecDotSign
Unconfirmed Member
fixed
MetalGuardian
Banned
Ah, another Nintendo-themed Neiteio thread. Truly one of the finest pleasures GAF has to offer. The day you get banned or leave the forum or die will be a sad day for all of us Nintophiles (uh... that's a phrase, right?) indeed.
I am quite frankly shocked at how well I'm enjoying this game. I bought the first one for five dollars and still felt like I got ripped off. I enjoyed the slow, more "tactical" approach of the gameplay, and thought the underwater setting was unique enough, but that's where my love for the game ended. The obstacles and challenges didn't flesh out the two strong points to nearly the extent they should have, and that five bucks could have bought me a frozen pizza, dammit!
The joke is on two-days-ago MetalGuardian now though, because without that five dollar investment to understand the failed beginnings of this franchise, the impact of just how huge of an evolution the series made in a single sequel would have been lost on me. This is some AssCrud 1 -> AssCrud 2 type shit here.
First and foremost, the way Nintendo's free-to-play philosophy reflect on the ideologies of the company as a whole is why I will forever love them, and why I am proud to go down with the sinking ship of the Wii U. For all of their (historic, monumental, unfathomable) fuckups, they strive to offer value to their customer more than any gaming company I can think of (apart from perhaps Valve). It's refreshing to see such sincere love of craft from a company that is so influential in one of my favorite activities I've ever had the pleasure of engaging in during my brief mist of time that is human existence, and for that I will be grateful to Nintendo for as long as I draw breath.
I highly doubt this game will end up standing amongst the pantheon of greats in Nintendo's archive when its all said and done, but it will definitely pop out in my memory as a cult classic of sorts, which had such a unique premise and execution that it set itself apart from the other multiplayer offerings on Nintendo systems.
I'm pretty poor right now, so unfortunately I'm going to have to wait on the premium version... but that I'm enjoying the free "demo" so much speaks volumes to the integrity with which the game was designed!
I am quite frankly shocked at how well I'm enjoying this game. I bought the first one for five dollars and still felt like I got ripped off. I enjoyed the slow, more "tactical" approach of the gameplay, and thought the underwater setting was unique enough, but that's where my love for the game ended. The obstacles and challenges didn't flesh out the two strong points to nearly the extent they should have, and that five bucks could have bought me a frozen pizza, dammit!
The joke is on two-days-ago MetalGuardian now though, because without that five dollar investment to understand the failed beginnings of this franchise, the impact of just how huge of an evolution the series made in a single sequel would have been lost on me. This is some AssCrud 1 -> AssCrud 2 type shit here.
First and foremost, the way Nintendo's free-to-play philosophy reflect on the ideologies of the company as a whole is why I will forever love them, and why I am proud to go down with the sinking ship of the Wii U. For all of their (historic, monumental, unfathomable) fuckups, they strive to offer value to their customer more than any gaming company I can think of (apart from perhaps Valve). It's refreshing to see such sincere love of craft from a company that is so influential in one of my favorite activities I've ever had the pleasure of engaging in during my brief mist of time that is human existence, and for that I will be grateful to Nintendo for as long as I draw breath.
I highly doubt this game will end up standing amongst the pantheon of greats in Nintendo's archive when its all said and done, but it will definitely pop out in my memory as a cult classic of sorts, which had such a unique premise and execution that it set itself apart from the other multiplayer offerings on Nintendo systems.
I'm pretty poor right now, so unfortunately I'm going to have to wait on the premium version... but that I'm enjoying the free "demo" so much speaks volumes to the integrity with which the game was designed!
Glad to see most people digging the game. 
So you didn't have fun with the game, huh? I wonder how long you played, or what sort of multiplayer situations you encountered while playing. As others have said, this game can be very tense. It sounds dull on paper -- being slow and cumbersome in a shooter -- but in practice it works very well. The more I play, the more ways I find to outmaneuver incoming attacks or get the jump on opponents.
As for your reference to the success of Crash Course 2 and Ascend: Fart of Butts, do we have any sort of metric of how many people have downloaded Sub Wars, or how many concurrent players it has? Or do we only have the (optional, and therefore deceptive) star rating in the eShop? As it stands, I don't think we can tell how many people have Sub Wars or are playing Sub Wars. The lobbies have been strong so far, albeit we're just a few days in.
It's a moot point, anyways -- if many people aren't playing Sub Wars, I'd take that as more indicative of Nintendo's virtually non-existent marketing for it. Announced in a Direct only a fraction of Nintendo's own fans saw, and just another icon in the eShop beyond that. I think that most people will be pleasantly surprised by it, which has been the majority opinion among people on GAF so far -- not just this one "excitable guy."
Nintendo clearly seems interested in it. I like to think they may continue to iterate on the formula with enough people purchasing the premium version or showing interest in the free version. Sub Wars takes the simulation elements that worked well in the first and opens up the gameplay in first-person 3D multiplayer. I wonder where another "evolution" could take it...
I'm not so much an "excitable guy," as a sincere one who generally only writes about what he likes, and doesn't bother talking about what he doesn't. We have enough people on GAF doing that.
So you didn't have fun with the game, huh? I wonder how long you played, or what sort of multiplayer situations you encountered while playing. As others have said, this game can be very tense. It sounds dull on paper -- being slow and cumbersome in a shooter -- but in practice it works very well. The more I play, the more ways I find to outmaneuver incoming attacks or get the jump on opponents.
As for your reference to the success of Crash Course 2 and Ascend: Fart of Butts, do we have any sort of metric of how many people have downloaded Sub Wars, or how many concurrent players it has? Or do we only have the (optional, and therefore deceptive) star rating in the eShop? As it stands, I don't think we can tell how many people have Sub Wars or are playing Sub Wars. The lobbies have been strong so far, albeit we're just a few days in.
It's a moot point, anyways -- if many people aren't playing Sub Wars, I'd take that as more indicative of Nintendo's virtually non-existent marketing for it. Announced in a Direct only a fraction of Nintendo's own fans saw, and just another icon in the eShop beyond that. I think that most people will be pleasantly surprised by it, which has been the majority opinion among people on GAF so far -- not just this one "excitable guy."
Yeah, it's not a groundbreaking F2P model, but it is thankfully a generous one in the sense that it gives players the full multiplayer mode and doesn't impose restrictions on when they play.
I do see potential for it to grow in this regard -- the ability to play with friends being the most logical addition, but certainly there are numerous other modes that could be incorporated (I.E. battling sea monsters, defending ship convoys, capturing flags, controlling zones, etc), and more features that could be added to the individual subs (I.E. dropping depth charges, floodlights for maps in the dark, etc).
Nintendo clearly seems interested in it. I like to think they may continue to iterate on the formula with enough people purchasing the premium version or showing interest in the free version. Sub Wars takes the simulation elements that worked well in the first and opens up the gameplay in first-person 3D multiplayer. I wonder where another "evolution" could take it...
Yeah, this is definitely not a David Cage game, lol. I like Cage, though -- Heavy Rain was an interesting experience, and I'm keen to try Beyond: Two Souls at some point.
RMS Gigantic
Member
Welp, this game's menu music has officially reached ear worm status for me. I used to read threads about this game with the Battlefield 1942 theme stuck in my head because that was the catchier song, but I just read this page with the menu music of this game in my head, despite having not played the game in the past five hours or so to have been able to listen to its music.
As for Steel Diver not becoming a possible (albeit smaller scale) Nintendo icon, I believe it could happen on account of how few other Nintendo games (or indeed, any publisher's games) there are like it. However, unless data proves that there's more people who will continue playing this game than I think there will be (especially depending on how much post-launch support they give it), I think that it's probably going to be somewhere around F-Zero in terms of its Nintendo franchise status (as defined by fanbase size).
As for Steel Diver not becoming a possible (albeit smaller scale) Nintendo icon, I believe it could happen on account of how few other Nintendo games (or indeed, any publisher's games) there are like it. However, unless data proves that there's more people who will continue playing this game than I think there will be (especially depending on how much post-launch support they give it), I think that it's probably going to be somewhere around F-Zero in terms of its Nintendo franchise status (as defined by fanbase size).
Yeah, I don't see this game becoming a big deal. Not because it isn't good. It's great. It just doesn't have certain factors. It's a downloadable game, won't have any real advertisement, it's too unique and slow and difficult, and it doesn't have much character on the surface.
But I would like to see them pursue this as a franchise.
I think they'll make enough profit off Sub Wars to create another one. Given the game has barely had any exposure in the media, there are a surprising number of people playing the game at length. I also see a lot of "premium" subs, indicating a purchase.
For a Sub Wars II, Nintendo should:
- Add the option to play with friends on your Friends List
- Add new modes like Capture the Flag, Convoy, etc
- Add floodlights you can turn on/off in dark maps
- Add depth charges for hitting dudes below you
- Flesh out crew members beyond just a portrait
- Pay more attention to "world-building" details
- Add sea monsters as stage hazards
- Diversify the underwater ecosystem
And include all the content of the first Sub Wars, as well. Maybe even include the first Steel Diver in its entirety, as a side attraction. Maybe even release both a 3DS and WiiU version, and make them cross-compatible with each other, for cross-platform multiplayer. (WiiU players would see more effects, foliage, fish, etc)
Then release a free version and premium version, just like before, but really advertise it this time. So far, the game seems to be doing well in terms of lobbies filling quickly, which is encouraging. It makes you wonder how well they could do with proper advertising. Hopefully this game will have real staying power, even if it is among a cult following.
RMS Gigantic
Member
I disagree with the idea of fleshing out crew members beyond portraits. I love games like this that deliberately avoid having you connect to living characters; it leads to a lot less sob stories.
By "fleshing them out," I don't necessarily mean backstories. I mean, give each crew member a more detailed portrait -- maybe even go the extra mile and give them 3D models -- and then provide a name (rather than Brute A, etc.) and a short bio describing them (I.E. "He loves pizza, and is frequently berated by his shipmates for leaving empty pizza boxes everywhere"). Little details like this can go a long way toward giving the game more personality and charm.